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/lit/ - Literature

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12276116 No.12276116 [Reply] [Original]

i finished thomas pynchons mason and dixon today. i previously finished V. while i understood the major themes and nature of V. better i had a harder time piecing together the various themes and stories in mason and dixon. what do people here think of mason and dixon many say it is Pynchon best work

>> No.12276128

>>12276116

It's a book about being bros

>> No.12276143

i felt the same. i feel bad because people praise the book so much but it mostly left me cold.

>> No.12276148

>>12276128
see that is what i thought. about love and life and joy and adventure but also regret and being held back by the past and the envitablity of death. the relationship between mason and dixon makes sense it is certain spatial elements that don't make sense. like the dynamic of the yo-yo in V. in this there are several themes of space and area using mounds, stars, latitudes and longitudes but i don't quite understand it.

>> No.12276160

>>12276143
yeah, i am not a very smart man honestly and often feel left behind in many things. i enjoyed the book but feel i did it in a very superficial way often missing what was being said

>> No.12276173

>>12276160
i enjoyed Mason & Dixon quite a bit but i could also say that so much stuff was probably going right over my head

>> No.12276204

>>12276173
people have told me it wasn't cause i was dumb but because you need to read commentary, write and reflect on it. that helps but i doubt it

>> No.12276500

>>12276160
>>12276148
imagine reading a book and not understanding it.
In this case, you are not reading, you are a pseud.

>> No.12276514

>>12276116
you might as well read Marlow, fucking cuck. only GRRM will be remembered.

>> No.12276564

>>12276500
>>12276514
why are you guys so mean. also people study books endlessly and learn new things about old literature every day. i already admitted i am not very smart what more do you want. i hate /lit.

>> No.12276587

>>12276500
also if you understand the book so well please provide your perspective

>> No.12276589

>>12276564
i was just joshing bud

>> No.12276595

>>12276589
ha sorry am autism.

>> No.12276604

>>12276587
>>12276564
You made me pity you brainlet, but a piece of advice: if you're not enjoying or understanding something and yet you continue to do it, you are wasting your time and deserve to be mocked.
this is 4chan, newfag, of course we are going to be mean.

>> No.12276628

>>12276604
>if you don't instantly understand something you are wasting your time trying to learn about it
i suppose you can just learn everything instantly. i also said i was enjoying the book and understood large parts of it but my central problem is the spatial element of the book and how that theme interconnects. you don't have to be a dick, people study literature endlessly, you are the one who needs pity.

>> No.12276648

>>12276500
please stop

>> No.12276661

>>12276628
That's not reading, that's consuming. You are creating waste if you don't attempt to make some interpretation.
>>12276648
stop what exactly?

>> No.12276683

>>12276116
Firstly, it's another one of Pynchon's big structured novels. He structured the novel V. just like its title, he structured GR like the Ouroboros, this one has a prevalence of lamination, referenced in the Leyden piles and other laminated objects in the book, but also referenced in the series of episodes that, unusually for Pynchon, follow linearly. What's important about lamination is that it is exactly what the novel itself is shaped like. Pynchon is saying that his novel is (strangely enough!) shaped like a book. This also relates back to one of the phrases used in the book to describe lamination - "pure Surface". The idea of the novel being all surface is also a reference to how the reader can interpret the novel - Pynchon is drawing attention to the fact that this is his first novel that is largely about the enjoyment of the characters and their adventures together. It is a new leaf in his fiction, perhaps in the vein of the New Sincerity movement, where there is no need for intense literary analysis.

However, that's not all there is to this book. There's an essay online about Pynchon's less noticeable but very important references to the "autostereogram", one of those optical illusions that are 2D but look 3D if you squint enough. This is a reference to the depth that can be drawn behind the novel, but it's stuff that you have to want to see. The importance of the latitudes/longitudes/borders/orthogonality tend to be the themes of placing an unnecessary order upon nature, something which Captain Zhang references in the evil power of the line. The line becomes a symbol of the progress of the Enlightenment, with Mason & Dixon, much like Slothrop, unwittingly causing the destruction of society yet powerless to stop it due to the large conspiracy (in this case, the Jesuits) controlling them. It also becomes part of the conspiracy of the manufacturing of the Civil War (something referenced in TCoL49), and it's no accident that they measure the line out in "chains". There's lots of symbols like this that Pynchon uses throughout the novel, but perhaps the most emotionally affecting of them all is the repetition of the Gemini. There are lots of references to the ideas of twins, not only Mason & Dixon but tea and coffee, Darby and Cope, William and Doc are the sons of Rebekah and much like Esau and Jacob. Spoilers ahead: What makes the final line of "And you too." so moving is that it is an unexpected disruption of the imagery of twins that has been so prevalent throughout the novel. Instead of merely being Doc and William it shows the impossible fantasy of Mason living on and forming a three, much like the earlier fantasy of the infinite extension of the line. In that sense, Pynchon really did
make one of the major themes of the novel to be friendship.

>> No.12276688

>>12276661
but i am interpreting and trying to analyze what i read. though i don't have a full understanding yet as any human being wouldn't instantly. through commentary, reflection, others opinions and several pages of notes i am piecing together an interpretation. my view will develop and evolve over time just like anyone who reads a book. i am asking what others think about the book. i don't understand what is upsetting you.

>> No.12276695

>>12276683
great post thank you

>> No.12276769

>>12276661
fuck you nigger

>> No.12276808

i like the parts with the calverts

>> No.12277057

>>12276160
I forgot the name, but google Pynchon podcast. They go pretty in depth with all of his books and it'll help you with anything that you missed.