/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12254299]

What's the equivalent for Russian history?

[Anonymous No.12254354]

Gulag Archipelago

[Anonymous No.12254368]

>>12254354
>The Gulag Archipelago has been officially published, and since 2009, is mandatory reading as part of the Russian school curriculum.
A People's History will never be officially sanctioned educational material in the United States.

[Anonymous No.12254687]

>>12254354
But the Gulag Archipelago isn’t mostly editorialized bullshit

[Anonymous No.12254709]

Howard Zinn is an idiot who bends over Jihadists

[Anonymous No.12254717]

>>12254299
Why'd Will Hunting think this was better than a multi volume set of history books, was he an ideologue?

[Anonymous No.12254729]

A history of Russia written by a devout Stalinist

[Anonymous No.12254737]

>>12254299

A People's History of Russia

[Anonymous No.12254745]

I’ve never met anyone I felt was intellectual shill this ducking book. It’s basically a way to say “YOURE WRONG DAD FUCK YOU”

[Anonymous No.12254770]

>>12254745
It just dispels the American exceptionalism and moral authority myths. The development of the country was fueled by moneyed interests like everything else. Is that wrong?

[Anonymous No.12254778]

>>12254770
It’s wrong because he writes his stupid left wing ideology into a lengthy history where it doesn’t apply. It’s anachronistic.

[Anonymous No.12254802]

>>12254770
Ya know there’s an entire generation of people like me that woke up to that realization at 12 years old under the wars of Bush. It feels hack almost, we didn’t live through the 80’s. Then we got older and realized this in itself was ubiquitous propaganda and >>12254778
Is right. We have the knowledge that America isn’t perfect but still take pride in civic nationalism and the true breakthroughs that America actually has had. The amazing pearls of wisdom aren’t that “America is based on LIES” but rather “ America is complicated and rather than reductionist deconstruction you can find value in the truly exceptional”

This is the new paradigm and when I hear people shilling things like this book it REEKS of boomerism and out of touch sage burning faggots. The future is looking good.

[Anonymous No.12254827]

>>12254802
>Ya know there’s an entire generation of people like me that woke up to that realization at 12 years old under the wars of Bush.
Sorry for being younger then you or ignorant of politics for longer than you then.

I still don't see why it's wrong to write a "leftist history" and point out the negatives of American development. None of that is touched on in primary American education, it's all oorah go America disregard all atrocities and worship the state.

[Anonymous No.12254870]

>>12254827
It’s not though you pleb. We study the atrocities of the trail of tears, segregation, the civil war, and even colonialism in core curriculums. We didn’t always do this. Ofcourse they can’t cover nearly everything that’s important but it’s not like there’s some grand conspiracy to keep information away from the public. In fact the status quo is very interested in what some might call “vice signaling” and just diffusing things right away. There’s nothing wrong with writing about these histories and Howard has a lot of points to make. But the status quo as a said has a huge vested interest in pushing multiculturalism and has since the 90’s. They even started initiatives for failed “Ebonics” programs back then. I’m just as disgusted by blind nationalism as you are but every heed of media is there to reinforce the idea that America has some kind of restitution it owes to interest groups. It could be the going green movement placing the onus of the problem on consumers while Exxon blows smog into the ozone or it could be something else. Don’t be fooled by neoliberalism my friend. Books like this are simply old hat and offer little to the conversation. The idea that it’s some tome of secret histories recorded by revolutionaries is fucking laughable.

[Anonymous No.12254894]

>>12254368
it's used in tons of college classes, the USA doesn't have a unified school curriculum like Russia does.

[Anonymous No.12254904]

>>12254299
The communist manifesto.

[Anonymous No.12255024]

>>12254299
200 Years Together is even more equivalent than Gulag Archipelago

[Anonymous No.12255393]

So what's the opposite of Zinn? A book that focuses on the positive and innovative aspects of the United States?

[Anonymous No.12255398]

>>12255393
Sorry, second sentence wasn't supposed to be a question.

[Anonymous No.12255427]

>>12255393
Just pickup any textbook of the last 100 years. We did that shit.

[Anonymous No.12255458]

>>12255393
Just look at any blank page

[Anonymous No.12255467]

>>12255393
MEW has aged so terribly. It's such a shame that women start out so cute and then fade so quickly.

[Anonymous No.12255471]

>>12254717
He was very smart, and coming from a life of poverty he correctly sided with the lower classes that have been mistreated and exploited throughout history. He also a hard worker and secure in his masculinity so was not afraid that having compassion and principled beliefs would make him seem effeminate.

Robin Williams was a pleb for liking Chomsky tho

[Anonymous No.12255507]

>>12255393
I believe there is a "Patriot's History of the United States" that was literally written in response to it, let me find it.

[Anonymous No.12255534]

>>12254299
Vodka

[Anonymous No.12255549]

>>12255393
Written in a time when you could still publish the words 'negro' and 'retard'. It's a real time capsule.

[Anonymous No.12255580]

>>12254870
some places don't teach trail of tears, segregation, the civil war, or colonialism as atrocities, you know? there's whole swaths of the country that don't actually have the starting point that you do

[Anonymous No.12255608]

>>12255580
Ok like where? Actually fucking tell me where because I don’t believe you. Are you just making that up? Did you know even though education is dolled out by individual states that most of them buy and sell curriculums to eachother as well as standardized tests?

I have no fucking clue what you’re talking about my dude, even if places don’t specifically touch on a niche thing like the trail of tears literally every history class is centric to these ideas. I’m also quite tired of these notions that students are beholden to what schools teach at all in the atomized age of the internet and smart phones. Again this whole line of inquiry seems dated and out of touch.

Are you gonna tell me that colleges shy away from the kind of thing next?

[Anonymous No.12255789]

>>12255608
rural Indiana
t. Hoosier

[Anonymous No.12255815]

>>12255789
Gonna need actual sources.

[Anonymous No.12255843]

>>12254354
>>12254737
>>12254904
BTFO retards

[Anonymous No.12255901]

Ask about it on dvach

[Anonymous No.12255939]

>>12255901
Can a monolingual languagelet truly live?

[Anonymous No.12255978]

>>12255815
if you're going to be solipsistic and not believe the experience of someone from that area, you can simply google around yourself. here are a couple links i found in like 30 seconds of searching:
https://www.prindlepost.org/2016/05/removing-slavery-textbooks/
https://www.jstor.org/stable/24398556 - i don't have access to the full article but apparently this textbook manages to cover the trail of tears without calling it that and without describing any of the violence, coercion, death, etc
https://hechingerreport.org/students-ignorant-civil-rights-movement/
>Before 2011, Mississippi public school students weren’t required to learn about the Civil Rights Movement at all. The previous social studies standards mentioned the phrase “civil rights” just three times in the 305-page document. It refers to the “Civil Rights Movement” once.

it's really beyond me why you had such a strong, hostile reaction to his point

[Anonymous No.12255988]

>>12255939
In this case, ask in /int/

[Anonymous No.12255994]

>>12255978
So almost eight years ago Mississippi didn’t have the right terminology in their books. I literally could care less, my point is that it’s still centric to the entire education process. I already said it’s of little importance did the trail of tears is specifically covered as I’m absolutely sure there isn’t a southern student that hasn’t heard of the civil war before even setting foot in a classroom.

What I’m suggesting to you is that there isn’t some conspiratorial effort to silence any kind of history. Not anymore. Let me ask, how old are you anon? Seriously.

[Anonymous No.12256014]

>>12254770
He's a subversive jew who is trying to demoralize the public and make them lose faith in America. Hell, he even wrote children's edition of the book and shilled heavily to have teachers put it in their curriculum. He's not even trying to hide it.

[Anonymous No.12256034]

>>12256014
Life is too complex man why did I get involved in this shit. I don't know where I stand on anything. I bring up politics then I back down from the conversation because I don't feel educated enough. I just want to see a positive future for people and leave the world with less suffering than when I entered but I can't impact shit.

[Anonymous No.12256269]

>>12256034
iktf lad. youre doing good though, i appreciate it at least

[Anonymous No.12256594]

>>12254368
It was used in both of my High Schools (moved) APUSH classes.

[Anonymous No.12256867]

>>12255024
Is there an English version of this I can buy without the standard editorializing in introductions and footnotes?

[Anonymous No.12256923]

>>12255549
Jokes on you I still say those words

[Anonymous No.12257393]

>>12255978
I'm from Texas and we literally never used those World Geography books. In fact we never used the textbooks since our teachers just made power points and we took notes. Also kids just read Wikipedia pages about events instead of lugging around a shitty High school textbook.

[Anonymous No.12257443]

>>12255994
notice the date of this news story: November 2018. literally just before last month, Texas was teaching that the civil war was not about slavery. or you can find any of the many monuments glorifying the Confederacy. southern students might know about the Civil War, but they don't hear about its moral atrocity. instead they hear the Lost Cause myth. even if we assume that now any future Texas students will for the rest of time accept that slavery was the primary impetus of the Civil War, that any student with the bare minimum of exposure to the new narrative of atrocity over the rest of the 2018-19 academic year will accept it, etc. then last year's 18-year old graduates will continue to accept, exert pressure for, and disseminate the Lost Cause myth.
texas is a state that's slowly turning more blue, but there are many states with educational curriculums more red than texas'.
there is a constant effort to control and rewrite history and education. this is true everywhere in the world, not just in the rural or red parts of the US, but my specific claim, that many historical destructions are still upheld as great achievements of the US' glorious past, is an exemplar

[Anonymous No.12257765]

>>12257443
>texas was teaching that the civil war was not about slavery
Why do I care? Your average student doesn’t know a thing about history even after four years of high school. He knows nothing but a few easy platitudes.

The least of my worries is that Texas is playing semantics with the civil war, especially since slavery literally was a state right.

Tbh, you care especially about these issues because you’ve been drilled and trained from a young age to react reflexively to any mention of race. You say you want to teach the real civil rights movement, but could never allow it because a detailed lesson on that sibject would destroy popular figures like mlk. In terms of importancd, the civil rights movement doesn’t even make the top 10 of important events American students don’t know about.

[Anonymous No.12257801]

>>12255507
Based burgers

[Anonymous No.12258004]

>>12254354
this