I am almost finished with this 3 chapters left

[Anonymous No.12245688]

Was it all worth killing each other over some thot? I understand that Iliad is more than that but come on really?

[Anonymous No.12245700]

>>12245688
You're telling me that if some Turk cucked you you'd just stand back and take it?

[Anonymous No.12245715]

>>12245700
That depends
If its rape no
But if she willingly was for it I am not going to stir violence over some hoe Ill just leave and find another bitch good reason to divorce her I just don't see a variable reason to give your life for such an inferior being called woman whoever does it is a fool

[Anonymous No.12245743]

the Achaeans were required by duty to Zeus to avenge this transgression of xenia, which was an insult to Zeus' authority.

[Anonymous No.12245748]

Nah they were gonna fight anyway. She was just an excuse.

[Anonymous No.12245753]

>>12245688
I mean it wasn’t just some thot it was the most beautiful thot in the world and the Turks had her and were raping her

[Anonymous No.12245757]

>>12245748
well good to know otherwise I was thinking some many dudes died over a thot I feel relief

[Anonymous No.12245767]

>>12245715
Women were property back then. So I can just take things from you without consequence, because your dignity isn't worth the trouble?

[Anonymous No.12245768]

>>12245753
are you sure it was the turks and not the mongols?

[Anonymous No.12245769]

Why did all of Greece under Agamemnon invade Troy for one girl? Why did the families of these men support them in doing so, even the women? Was this woman that beautiful? Yes, it is that in part. There is the saying of the woman who launched a thousand ships. But in going after this woman and the cowardly Paris who stole her, the men were going to reclaim society. It was not that the men were horny and all marveled the beauty of this woman. It was that these men upheld their values so much, that they wouldn’t even let this woman, who had beauty blessed by a “goddess” get away with doing something so heinous as breaking a wedding vow and running away with another man to another country.

And we see this again when Achilles refuses to fight. The Achaens had vows that a certain maiden, as a spoil of war would go to Achilles. But King Agamemnon broke this, and thus Achilles refused to bend to his will and retreated to his own tent. This is showing a people who held on to honor, respect, justice, even at the cost of defying the most beautiful woman in the world (and the mischievous deities that supported her) as well as kings. In both cases what was theirs was reclaimed

[Anonymous No.12245775]

>>12245767
but still if women are property it is not worth fighting over a property thank god there is more property laying around some of them are used up but that don't matter if you just want a neck

[Anonymous No.12245776]

>>12245715
fucking hell, it's like a microcosm for how far Masculinity (and Humanity as a whole) has fallen since Homer.
Masculinity then:
>this guy stole my wife and disgraced me before the whole world. marshal every able bodied man and all our allies, we are going to pull his goddamn city down stone by stone, slaughter everything with a dick that opposes us, and I'll have that bitch back in my bed by the end of it
Masculinity now:
>well I mean, she was willing so like, it's her decision and I respect that I'll just get a divorce or something idk

[Anonymous No.12245787]

>>12245775
You aren't right for this book.

[Anonymous No.12245797]

>>12245776
don't blame me my friend blame the POSTMODERNIST society. Its not up to us men either, we gave women right to vote and all other rights because we believe that woman has a mind of her own and has ability to reason right from wrong (not that I believe in it) but if she decides to cheat then a rational thing is to leave

[Anonymous No.12245804]

>>12245688
No it wasn't worth it, Paris really fucked up. Then priam fucked up by not making him giver her back. Then Hector fucked up by not utilizing his position as the first born son tto convince priam and Paris to give her back. Well, they paid for it.

[Anonymous No.12245812]

Paris was a cunt who couldn’t get a girl through legitimate means, and couldn’t keep the one he got without the help of his CHAD brother & co. And he still died. He got reverse cucked and Menelaus reversed his own cucking, canceling it out, and making him uncucked and based. The Trojan men were killed and had their wives taken, making them permacucked, and all the Greek men based, except for Agamemnon, who was surprise cucked. SAD!

[Anonymous No.12245822]

>>12245787
neither are you faggot

[Anonymous No.12245827]

>>12245688
It was more about honor.

[Anonymous No.12245831]

>>12245797
Oh I know it's not your fault or just you. We're all born into it. I'm just pointing out how the ethos of modern masculinity manifested through your post and I'm lamenting how far we've fallen.
Being a man used to mean that when you got insulted or just bored you and your bros would grab your spears, lay siege to a city, burn it to the ground, put all the men to the sword, and carry off their women. Now being a man means standing in line at the courthouse with your divorce papers in hand and wondering if you'll still be able to afford that Netflix subscription after everything is settled.

[Anonymous No.12245834]

"thot" is the new retard detector. Like "fashy" in 2015.

[Anonymous No.12245842]

>>12245834
What about pseud?

[Anonymous No.12245863]

>>12245775
Dumb materialist. Mere property is quantifiable. The loss of honour, the perversion of justice suffered by the Achaeans at the theft of their property however is not; it is priceless and more than worth going to war over.

[Anonymous No.12245896]

>>12245863
if you stole my phone then we would have a problem but my bitch you can take her anytime

[Anonymous No.12245924]

>>12245776
That's ascension not regression. From tribal like animals that defend their property (women) with violence to modern self sufficient man that doesn't even need women to act as his living fleshlight

[Anonymous No.12245930]

>>12245924
But i do need to give out my seed. Unfortunately rape is illegal.

[Anonymous No.12245952]

>>12245688
It's a little bit more than that. One of the lost parts of the epic cycle is that before Helen is married, all the kings of Greece make a pact that they will honor the marriage and go to war against anyone who breaks it. And for the Greeks, making an oath is a big deal. If you break an oath then that's how you get Furies.

[Anonymous No.12245963]

>>12245776
>implying it wasn't just a reason for the greeks to chimp out and raid Troy and her allies

[Anonymous No.12245982]

>>12245688
I barely even remember Helen being much of a topic at all in the Iliad. It seemed more like the Gods playing around with a sandbox

[Anonymous No.12245993]

>>12245768
>>12245753
>The Trojans were Turks
Retards, they were the Sea Peoples

[Anonymous No.12245999]

>>12245834
>I don't like this word
No one cares

[Anonymous No.12246002]

>>12245924
This isn't fighting over property. This is about being publicly dishonoured and the having the oath your wife made to you broken by some twink.

[Anonymous No.12246010]

>>12246002
Spotted the turk

[Anonymous No.12246015]

>>12245769
>Achilles starts autistically screeching at Agamemnon over some war prize cumslut he wants back
>sits in his tent pouting, Patrocolocus dies as a result of this inaction
>has to get calmed down by his mother after this, mostly because he’s mad about his armor getting captured by Trojans

How does this show the height of society again?

[Anonymous No.12246020]

>>12245993
Spotted the Turk.

[Anonymous No.12246033]

>>12246020
If I was Turkish wouldn't I want them to be Turks?

[Anonymous No.12246041]

>>12246015
Not him, but Agamemnon taking the woman from him was more or less equivalent to stripping him of the glory he had attained in the campaign, and saying that his role in it wasn't significant. For a hero like Achilles, who had chosen glory over life, this was essentially an attack on the fundamental essence of his being. Since taking vengeance on him would have been too much, even for Achilles, his alternative was to choose life instead of glory.

As for him being mostly mad about his armour being captured, I can't really see anything supporting that claim; when he encounters Hector, his shit-giving is mostly directed at the fact he killed Patroclus.

[Anonymous No.12246043]

>>12246033
>We wuz sea peoples
No, you would try do claim to be the sea peoples - conquerors of the Egyptians.

[Anonymous No.12246062]

>>12245757
Thats why achilles and odysseus tried ti decieve their way out of the war at first, they didnt think it was worth it over some unfaithful woman

[Anonymous No.12246077]

>>12246062
Wasn't it Achilles mother that tried to use deceit to keep him out of the war?

Odysseus faked madness.

[Anonymous No.12246078]

>>12246041
iirc a decent chunk of Achilles dialogue with Thetis is comprised of them talking about the armor he lost until Thetis promises him another set. Hyperbole to say he was “mostly” mad about the armor, sure, but it’s a joke that’s grounded in the text

As for the first part of your post, I understand the reason why Achilles threw his bitch fit I just still think it’s unjustified and the way the entire “rage of Achilles” resolves makes him look like a complete meme

[Anonymous No.12246089]

>>12246078
To be fair, Thetis probably couldn't help him much on the "Patroclus is dead" matter, except to give him new gear to go and take vengeance.

As for his rage, the impression I got with the heroes is that they were supposed to have a godlike disposition, including a bizarre sense of monomania.

[Anonymous No.12246123]

>>12246077
Sorta, legend goes as following, Odysseus pretended he was insane and started sewing his farm with salt or some shit as soon as the guy from the army came to his house to enlist him. The army dude was a sly deciever as well and placed Odysseus son in front of Ody when he was swinging around his plow and Ody immediately stopped, proving himself sane after all.

Achilles' mother knew he was fated to die in Troy so she told him to hide, making him wear womens dresses to fit in with the maidens. Odysseus was sent to enlist him in person and pulled a good old Ody trick and disguised himself as a peddler and brought a bunch of girly ornaments as well as weapons and placed them seperately on the table before the maidens. All the women flocked to the ornaments while retard Achilles went and started checking out and taking hold of the weapons, exposing himself

[Anonymous No.12246157]

>>12245688
>he thinks they actually invaded Anatolia for Helen and not to expand the holdings of Mycenae

[Anonymous No.12246162]

>>12245743
Underrated post. The importance of Xenia in Homer shouldn't be underestimated, especially given its prominence in the Odyssey.

[Anonymous No.12246227]

>>12245700
>some Turk
Trojans =/= Turks

[Anonymous No.12246233]

>>12245834
What about roastie?

[Anonymous No.12247228]

The aspect about fighting over a woman is what bothers you? Not that they have been there for 10 years? Not that the gods keep interrupting the action and actually show up on the battlefield?

[Anonymous No.12247293]

Did you forget that it was all orchestrated by the gods?

[Anonymous No.12247320]

>>12245688
Read The Trojan Women by Euripides, it has a different take on the "was Helen worth it" question.

The Atreidae probably wanted to invade Troy anyway, Helen was what made it legitimate (Oath of the Severed Horse).

[Anonymous No.12247345]

>>12245688
>Fagles translation
Come on, anon, we all know Lombardo's translation is the best

[Anonymous No.12247356]

>>12246227
Genetic studies have shown that modern day Turks are mostly descended from native Anatolians rather than Central Asian Turkic peoples.

[Anonymous No.12247371]

>>12245688
Read Helen by Euripides
That roastie in Troy wasn't real

[Anonymous No.12247377]

>>12247345
Does this edition/cover exist in real life?

[Anonymous No.12247416]

>>12247345
For me, its Lattimore.