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/lit/ - Literature

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12223443 No.12223443 [Reply] [Original]

Will this book make me believe in God?

>> No.12223445

maybe
but it will make you belive in me

>> No.12223447

No, a book can't make you do anything. Except maybe trip and fall.

>> No.12223451

>>12223443
idk. if you're dumb enough I guess so.

real talk though this religious meme is really ruining this place. it's almost unusable at this point.

>> No.12223458

>>12223451
>everyone who appears to be smarter than me is actually memeing

>> No.12223460

>>12223443
Read it anyway. You have nothing to lose.
>>12223451
This guy hasn’t read it

>> No.12223464

>>12223451
>it's almost unusable at this point.
Good, then leave. This is a righteous and Godly board.

>> No.12223560

Only faith will make you really believe in God.

>> No.12223568

>>12223560
>only denial of all reason and facts will make you believe in god
makes sense

>> No.12223576

>>12223560
This is true. In a certain sense I almost respect people like Pascal less than outright atheists. Intellectuals who try to provide a rational system to allow someone to weasel their way to God. It doesn’t work. If you want a system like that then just recognize that urge for what it is: an innate longing for God and follow that to true faith.

>> No.12223609

>>12223576
Another anon comments on Pascal before having read him. Sad.

>If we submit everything to reason our religion will be left with nothing mysterious or supernatural. If we offend the principles of reason our religion will be absurd and ridiculous . . . There are two equally dangerous extremes: to exclude reason, to admit nothing but reason.

>Reason's last step is the recognition that there are an infinite number of things which are beyond it.

>God wishes to move the will rather than the mind. Perfect clarity would help the mind and harm the will.

>At the far end of this infinite distance a coin is being spun which will come down heads or tails. How will you wager? Reason cannot make you choose either, reason cannot prove either wrong.

>> No.12223618

>>12223451
>>12223568
>>12223576
Why does Pascal make atheists so angry?

>> No.12223633

Pascal is Houellebecq with a soul

>> No.12223643

>>12223618
I have noticed this to. Atheists are always really defensive once someone challenges them by proclaiming that theism can be rationally defended. I think atheists are easily triggerd by the notion that you can believe in god becuase it's the most rational thing to do as their idenityt is built upon being a rational septic.
t. Atheist

>> No.12223648

>>12223609
Doesn’t invalidate what I said. Those quotes showing him refusing to let go of reason. Have god or have your reason but it’s absurd to try for both. Him and people like him are twerps.

>> No.12223661

>>12223648
Without reason, you can’t distinguish Christianity from the other thousand religions (which Pascal does in detail).

>> No.12223680

>>12223661
Doesn’t matter. He wasn’t a man of faith. His existence was absurd. He should have just been a scientist or a priest. Ever hear of protesting too much? That’s what mystically inclined rational philosophers do. They can’t believe so they make a career out of mental gymnastics to convince their rational brains that it’s ok to believe in God.

>> No.12223691

>>12223576
you haven't read it

>> No.12223702

>>12223691
Doesn’t matter. The most famous thing about Pascal is a little game that allows you to rationalize your way into a pretend belief in God. I don’t care what he said, I’m not criticizing his writings. I’m criticizing a legacy of fake believers who should have stuck to secular philosophy.

>> No.12223704
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12223704

>>12223443
laughing my ass off over here

>> No.12223708

>>12223680
Pascal gave up math and science due to a religious experience. Penseés is obviously directed at those who don’t believe as well as he does, and it works. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Are you Christian?

>> No.12223709

Please God, when anons say Pascal rationalizes, oh God, when they say he was not a man of faith, dear God just tell me they're trolling

>> No.12223717

>>12223702
you're criticizing pascal himself though despite the fact that you haven't read his work and all your criticism of him is outright incorrect

>> No.12223718

>>12223704
kek

>> No.12223719

>>12223702
Pascal mentions that the wager requires sincere belief, it's just a starting point in your search for God.

>> No.12223720

>>12223702
The wager only applies to those transitioning from non-belief to belief. If you do as Pascal prescribes and humble yourself, read the Bible, pray, do good works, go to church, lessen the passions, etc., then the wager will be no longer necessary and you will be a sincere Christian with good faith.

>> No.12223728

>>12223717
No. I told you what I’m criticizing and the words are clear and true. I’ll gladly criticize him now though: he is undoubtedly burning in hell. Keep throwing a tantrum. I’m done here.

>> No.12223733

>>12223680
He had a vision of Jesus and was immediately completely converted. He didn't doubt the truth of what he saw because of his rationality, he believed it as true and had sincere faith

>> No.12223752

>>12223728
>I told you what I’m criticizing and the words are clear and true
are you saying you weren't criticizing pascal? what about all this:
>>12223680

>> No.12223753

>>12223733
what an idiot

>> No.12223766

>>12223702
He talks in rational terms because he's trying to convince people who think purely rationally to believe in God. Pascal had faith and realized that rationality shouldn't be used to understand God, but saying "you just gotta believe" isn't going to be very convincing to a rationalist atheist, so he made the wager that makes believing in God the rational choice. You still have to devote yourself to Christianity and have irrational faith to get into heaven, the wager doesn't mean that by just saying you believe in God you go to heaven

>> No.12223768

>>12223728
Have you actually read Pascal or do you just know the wager?

>> No.12223801

>>12223768
>”doesn’t matter”

>> No.12223808

>>12223801
Butthurt.

>> No.12223821

>>12223618
Because the wager is bullshit and anyone who buys into it is an easily-duped tool

>>12223643
I am an antirational atheist.

>> No.12223835
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12223835

>>12223801
>It doesn't matter if I haven't read the author I'm criticizing

>> No.12223842

>>12223835
It sounded more like he was criticizing people who cite the wager as a reason for believing in God. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

>> No.12223870

>>12223842
You can’t call the wager bullshit if you don’t understand its context. I’ve never seen a counter-argument to the wager that wasn’t addressed in Penseés.

>> No.12223886

>>12223870
Once again, I don’t think that was the issue in this (incoherent) disagreement. He seems to just hate people feeling the need to justify belief rather than diving in. Pascal and his wager were clearly a vehicle for that topic, not the target of criticism.

>> No.12223937

>>12223886
That guy’s wavering between blaming Pascal and blaming his followers. He has no idea what he’s talking about. Yes, some Christians cite the wager with little understanding of Penseés, and this is one of the reasons why atheists have such a misunderstanding of Pascal and the wager, but obviously the solution to this problem is for people to read Pascal.

>> No.12224291

>>12223821
you haven't read Pascal so why are you talking about his ideas?
>inb4 i don't need to read him!

>> No.12224454

>>12223680
>"Anyone who chose to follow reason alone would have proved himself a fool"

>> No.12224492

>>12223704
okay now this is epic

>> No.12224604

WHY DO TOURISTS COME HERE AND MAKE DAILY PASCAL THREADS
THIS SHIT HASN'T BEEN PHILOSOPHICALLY VALID FOR CENTURIES

>> No.12224608

>>12223443
So many buttblasted rational fake christcucks itt.

>> No.12224614

>>12224604
because redditman made theism fashionable for virgins and now they're desperate to find an anchor for their credulousness

>> No.12224641

>>12223451
>idk
>real talk
>meme
Holy fucking moly

>> No.12224651

>>12224604
>>12224608
>>12224614
Not an argument

>> No.12224694

Reminder that a god of reason is a god of the dead, and not a god of the living.

>> No.12224699

>>12224608
When did you convert to atheism?

>> No.12224766

>>12224694
Pascal's God isn't a God of reason

>> No.12224773

>>12223451
>t. reddit tourist

>> No.12224783

>>12223451
>>12224604
>>12224608
>>12224614
absolute state of atheist discourse

>> No.12224795

>>12224604
>WHY DO TOURISTS COME HERE AND MAKE DAILY PASCAL THREADS
If only you understood how ignorant atheists are of what Pascal says in Penseés, even ITT, then you’d understand why

>> No.12224864

>>12223443
What a qt

>> No.12224907

>>12223443
Made me believe anon.

Kierkegaard is better though.

>> No.12224923

>>12224907
I feel like Pascal is a better starting point and Kierkegaard strengthens your faith