There's no justification for natalism. Prove me wrong.

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Anonymous Tue Dec 11 18:45:19 2018 No.12215725 [Reply] [Original]

There's no justification for natalism. Prove me wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 11 18:47:01 2018 No.12215732 File: 691 KB, 974x599, u-'ought'-to-suckmydick.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12215725 there's no justification for anything. prove me wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 11 18:47:08 2018 No.12215734 File: 6 KB, 1084x1000, ???.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12215725

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 11 18:47:40 2018 No.12215738 >>12215725 He's right. Given his false idiotic premises, having Children is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 01:33:02 2018 No.12217189 >I objected to being born No you didnt you fucking faggot you weren't alive how did you object to it

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 01:36:03 2018 No.12217199 >>12215725 >Robert Smith says things I like therefore life is meaningless

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 01:40:10 2018 No.12217210 >>12215725 Why do all beings, sentient or not, seem to have a hard-wired drive for self propagation, if that is not a desirable end for such beings?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 01:48:05 2018 No.12217239

>>12215725
>anno dommi 2018
>people dumbfounded by natural systems and human primal wishes
If you don't want to have children, that's fine. Don't act all uppity like you just discovered some arcane philosophical principle though. It doesn't elevate you above any person who does have children.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:05:46 2018 No.12217277 >>12217189 punches you in the dick Hey, man, you didn't object to it, so I guess it was okay to do

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:08:13 2018 No.12217283 >>12217277 >Picks the weakest argument to respond to

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:10:44 2018 No.12217287 >>12217283 I'm not seeing any better ones ITT >>12215732 is good ol' tired is-ought shit thats beem BTFO by Kant and everyone henceforth >>12217210 >>12217239 are even more tired appeals to nature

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:18:35 2018 No.12217309 >>12217287 >are even more tired appeals to nature What are you? Some translucent primeval entity? You're part of nature just as me. Nature arguements are based in reality, while yours is seeming to be premised on yours mind's personal construct.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:20:10 2018 No.12217316 >>12217287 kant and co never even came close to answering that problem

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:20:27 2018 No.12217318 >>12217287 My question, >>12217210 Is not an appeal to nature. I asked you to explain what you were claiming and reconcile it with the facts of reality. Are you saying something like, 'the universe has made a mistake' ?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:32:18 2018 No.12217343 >>12215725 Only those who are born can experience the One.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:38:57 2018 No.12217359 >>12217318 It's a survivor's bias. Like, no shit that creatures with a drive to propagate will, you know, propagate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:42:23 2018 No.12217367 >>12217359 what are some examples of creatures which did not have a physiological / biological / natural / whatever you want to call it / urge to propagate, and did not?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:46:16 2018 No.12217374 >>12217359 Do you think it's unintelligent to propagate, or just vain?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 02:51:21 2018 No.12217384 >>12215725 doesn't comprehend evolution

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 04:17:06 2018 No.12217556 >>12215725 I like being alive. Hopefully my children won't end up being edgy faggots who lament the fact that they were born.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 04:25:05 2018 No.12217570 My dick says otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 04:46:13 2018 No.12217613 >>12217556 This. Life is brilliant, the pleasure vastly outweighs the pain, and pain isn't even that bad anyway. My children are a gift and a blessing and watching them grow has been the greatest joy of my life

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 05:26:32 2018 No.12217680 >>12217613 It sure is wholesome that you regard your offspring as a gift to yourself and a conduit of your personal pleasure. Isn't it great that illegal status of slavery doesn't stop you from making some with your dick?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 05:32:18 2018 No.12217700 Antinatalism is literally for losers, imagine being such a crybaby fag that you 'object to being born.' It's pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 05:34:39 2018 No.12217704 Why don't you die then? If you don't want to live, die. You can choose death but you can't choose life on yourself. Fucking stupid post.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 05:36:06 2018 No.12217709 File: 21 KB, 200x280, ligg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12217700 t. insider

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 05:53:15 2018 No.12217750 >I object to being born Well, luckily living is a status that can be reversed at any time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 05:54:49 2018 No.12217754 >>12217704 >>12217750 >HURRR KILL URSELF NIGGA LMAO Same retarded argument, every goddamned time. Please go away.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 06:45:59 2018 No.12217840 >I objected to being born Most people do not.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 07:12:35 2018 No.12217874 >>12217680 I'm happy with my life, so why should I care about your objections?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 07:26:58 2018 No.12217893

Arguments against antinatalism:

>just kill yourself, faggot
>i enjoy being alive, so you're wrong

If that's it, then people truly are dumb and brilliant at the same time. Dumb because these "arguments" are just plain unreflected and shallow, brilliant because they are so good at deceiving themselves that they actually believe life to be more than just a cruel cosmic joke which butt are the ones forced into a futile existence that is filled with suffering. I can only hope that one day the truth will burn bright enough that even those who choose to close their eyes can't ignore it anymore.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 07:32:25 2018 No.12217902 >>12217210 Reproducing has the goal of extending our lives, but it doesn't, everything we do is aimed at extending our lives.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 07:51:25 2018 No.12217940 >>12217893 >they actually believe life to be more than just a cruel cosmic joke which butt are the ones forced into a futile existence that is filled with suffering. >implying this is not an unreflected, shallow appraisal of life

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 07:58:55 2018 No.12217953 >>12217893 And the only argument in favor of it is: >i don't enjoy life >therefore i presume no one does >therefore it's better not to live Which is even dumber because the second point is manifestly false.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:04:49 2018 No.12217962

>>12217940
I do admit that this may have sounded a bit arrogant, sorry for that. But in the end I have to ask you to just look at what life is: A constant battle. There may be moments of beauty, I don't even want to deny that, but the form of existence we know is mostly restless fighting, unsatiable will always searching for the satisfaction it can never find. Even the most big religions, may it be christianity or buddhism or whatever, consider life as suffering. Abrahamic religions promise salvation in the afterlife, buddhism by breaking out of the circle of reincarnation but they all have one thing in common: Life on earth is mostly negative. The concept of life as suffering is as old as humanity itself, antinatalism is not wanting to force this kind of suffering on innocent beings. I hope that you now understand what I was trying to convey a little bit better.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:06:46 2018 No.12217968 >>12217953 Neither of these are arguments for antinatalism. Antinatalists are unconcerned with existing humans altogether.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:11:27 2018 No.12217980

>>12217953
If you want to look at it this way, fine, but please consider the following: Before conceiving a child, you don't know if it wants to live. There is no way to ask for it's consent, so at this point it is a question of ethics: Do you want to risk to force your own child that you love into a world where it is bound to suffer? Even if you may like being alive, you can never know if your child will feel the same.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:12:04 2018 No.12217983

>>12217968
Did I leave too many implicit gaps for you? The presumption that no one enjoys life entails that, in particular, potential children would not enjoy their lives, and would therefore be better off without them, hence it is better not to produce them.
And it's stupid.

And of course they're concerned with existing humans, because that's where their presumption that life is a net negative comes from.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:14:13 2018 No.12217989 >>12215732 >There's no justification for anything Excuse me while I shill on a Portuguese pantomime image board about it.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:18:21 2018 No.12218003

>>12217980
Those that do not exist have no rights, so it doesn't matter that they can't consent.
In any case suicide rates are on the order of one in 10,000, and most people cling to any chance to stay alive. This suggests that the vast majority of people would rather live than not. Thus a potential child is very likely to feel the same.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:20:09 2018 No.12218009 >>12217983 Again, antinatalism has no regard WHATSOEVER with existing beings. Please stop being retarded, you're confusing antinatalism simultaneously with nihilism and utilitarianism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:21:50 2018 No.12218014 >>12218009 How do they know that life involves suffering if they don't know anything about living beings?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:29:15 2018 No.12218036

>>12218014
>suffering
If you're arguing for physical suffering (or happiness, which is the same thing - lack of suffering), it's utilitarianism. It's quite possible to envision, and potentially create a scenario where life is nothing but neverending stream of pleasure, where disease is conquered, crime is over, world hunger is finished etc etc. This still wouldn't be acceptable - antinatalism is concerned with existential angst, which can be inferred through reason without involving personal accounts like "dude my life rocks!".

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:30:43 2018 No.12218041

>>12218003
We clearly seem to have differnt views on ethics, if you think the non existent have no rights, so we probably won't be able to find any common ground on this issue. Concearning the "most people cling to any chances of being alive" thing, I think they do this mostly out of fear or self denial but once again we are not very likely to have an understanding here. The problem is that we both don't have any proof for anything we're saying, so at the end of the day no one will have changed his mind about this topic and in a week we will probably have forgotten this conversation already.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:32:07 2018 No.12218049 >>12218036 Existential angst is nonsense. It's purely voluntary and self-inflicted. I see no reason to take it at all seriously as a problem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:34:31 2018 No.12218059 >implying anti natalism is about preventing suffering Why do breeders always imply things without a base ?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:38:59 2018 No.12218070 >>12215725 That's only for white people and maybe asians. Other races should breed as much as possible. t. A chosen one

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:39:53 2018 No.12218072
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Every anti-natilist is unreservedly a neckbeard faggot. So it's not exactly that they don't like living, but that they don't like their specific mode of life, and you can't blame them. Sadly they openly admit without shame that they're too cowardly to end their lives because of constant pervasive fear of any suffering and instinctual human survival mechanisms working away in everyone's minds, so the rest of us are left to have to listen to their whinging, for the ironically lengthy span of all of our lives.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:40:06 2018 No.12218073 >>12218070 >/pol/fag needs to jump into the thread with his irrelevant horeshit Is /pol/ too crowded or something?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:40:35 2018 No.12218075

I'm an antinatalist and here's why.

Think of the average human live. You're born into abject poverty. Perhaps you are a woman in a culture where you will basically be a slave. If you have a decent family, you can do everything the family patriarch says until you're married off to someone who you was chosen for you. If not, you become a prostitute and die on a street corner in Bangladesh of AIDs.

Ok, now assume you're born rich, male, Western and have everything. Having everything means you appreciate nothing. You go to good schools and have lots of sex, and yadda yadda but it is all meaningless and does not fulfill you. You still are miserable just like the poor fuck.

Even under the best situations, every human being has to deal with their inevitable demise. A horrific fucking undertaking when you truly grasp the reality of eternal unconsciousness. Had they not been born, they would never have to suffer the inevitability of death.

Under what conditions would you possibly consider it to be moral to foist life onto someone? You condemn them to suffer for nothing but your own biological drive to reproduce and your desire for meaning. It is an inherently selfish pursuit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:41:38 2018 No.12218077 >>12218036 Also I'm not sure why you think existential angst shouldn't be classified as a form of suffering.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:44:15 2018 No.12218082 >>12218075 Or to just put it into a short sentence: Why would you force someone to play a game no one can win?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:44:39 2018 No.12218084 >>12218077 It should, but suffering is a word easily confused with bearable forms or suffering, giving birth to intellectual midgets like Sam Harris and his hot oven argument.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:51:05 2018 No.12218105

>>12218084
I'm not familiar with Sam Harris beyond being vaguely aware that he's one of the faggots that likes to boast about how he's too smart to be religious. Do you mean, "Hell is literally a hot oven, which is stupid, so hell doesn't exist and you're all stupid for believing in it"?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:52:44 2018 No.12218108 >>12218072 This. Losers trying to intellectually justify their own misery and lack of drive. >i...its n... not my fault I'm unhappy, that's just how life is

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 08:53:59 2018 No.12218111 >>12215725 The Cure rules 2bh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHs9aEXGKPg

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:03:51 2018 No.12218124

>>12218108
I wish I was also too stupid to understand neuroscience 2bh. I see you guys and know that I'd be a lot happier for sure if I thought I could change my mood whenever I felt like it. But unfortunately I'm too damn smart. I understand the complexities of neurochemistry and know what a mood disorder is. I simply can't just pretend to be a total fucking retard who's scientifically illiterate. There's no going back

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:09:02 2018 No.12218132 >>12215732 >>12215725 All justifications are belief hierarchies. I think we can even rank belief hierarchies, and OP's is bottom of the barrel even there.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:19:16 2018 No.12218157 File: 282 KB, 2048x1536, uc7fsb3tl4iz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12218124 Cry harder bitch nigga. Nobody cares about your pretend mental illness you use to justify your own bullshit

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:24:35 2018 No.12218170

>>12217754
Antinatalism is retarded. You're not just talking to your parents because you wish you weren't born, you're talking to everyone that's alive and the chances of you being someone, being alive would still be the same, no matter who has sex with who. How the fuck do you think people should stop having children? Giving someone the opportunity of enjoying life is the most generous thing someone could do. You didn't wish you were born, ok but why do you say this? Do your parents think you owe them something or what?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:25:38 2018 No.12218173 >>12217893 You sound like you care too much about the stuff that's happening around you. Where do you get so much suffering from?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:27:14 2018 No.12218176 >breeders keep justifying their delusion by saying anti natalism is about preventing suffering ebin.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:28:50 2018 No.12218178 Damn could there exist bigger pussies than antinatalists? >life sucks fucking idiot parents thought id enjoy this >life is also good >would rather not be born theres some things that suck about life Fucking pussies.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:28:56 2018 No.12218179 >>12215725 I don't need a justification you virgin faggot

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:29:51 2018 No.12218181 >>12218157 >because I am fat and unhappy slob, everybody who suffers from a neurochemical disorder is also Speak for yourself, fatass

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:40:32 2018 No.12218207 >>12217754 you're just being unrealistically hyper-utilitarian. reality doesn't owe you shit. you shouldn't be surprised when no one gives a shit about the opinion of some crybaby faggot who thinks life isn't self-justifying.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:46:03 2018 No.12218219 >>12217210 Because if they didn't they wouldn't exist. How fucking retarded are you?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 09:49:51 2018 No.12218227
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>>12217613
>the pleasure vastly outweighs the pain
>One simple test of the claim that the pleasure in the world outweighs the pain…is to compare the feelings of an animal that is devouring another with those of the animal being devoured.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:03:45 2018 No.12218262 File: 77 KB, 680x1020, 29e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12218124 >I wish I was also too stupid to understand neuroscience 2bh. >But unfortunately I'm too damn smart. > I understand the complexities of neurochemistry

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:04:23 2018 No.12218265 >>12218105 Just google 'Sam Harris is-ought', it's on his twitter. In short, he brilliantly derives ought from is, because touching hot stoves is painful.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:07:30 2018 No.12218276 >>12218227 >hurr durr life isn't worth living because sometime rabbits get eaten The fuck do I care about that? In my life, the pleasure outweighs the pain. I'm probably not going to get eaten alive all things considered

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:08:08 2018 No.12218278 >>12218178 >>12218179 >>12218207 >>12218108 >>12218072 >>12217700 >Should I address the argument... >or should I simply call my opponent a faget and move on being victorious?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:16:32 2018 No.12218299

>>12218278
Yes i should just call you faggot, because that's what you are, kiddo. A sad little faggot ass kid. I don't need to justify to some loser on the internet why i want to continue my bloodline. You can cry about MUH LIFE IS PAIN I HATE all you want, retard. But do yourself, your family and everyone on this planet a favor and just kill yourself. No, seriously kiddo. Actually do it. If life is WAH WAH SO PAINFUL SO HARD FOR YOU, i'll give you a newsflash, you can just grab a rope, tie a noose and end your little existential angst here and now. Obviously you're not gonna do that, because you don't have the balls and people who don't have balls shouldn't be in charge of humanity's existential questions. Now go cry in a corner somewhere you sensitive little flower.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:18:20 2018 No.12218307 >>12218278 >address the argument what argument? life is hard so stop having babies?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:22:42 2018 No.12218320 File: 2.02 MB, 1920x1080, 65189178_p0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12215725 If you weren't granted the gift of life, you now wouldn't be able to propagate your contrarian antinatalist rhetoric.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:24:08 2018 No.12218322

>>12218276
You don't understand. The driving force behind life is desire, not pleasure. You feel the turmoil of wanting to avoid suffering far more than the relief of evading it. Every DNA based life form is wired like this. When your kids get very sick or lost it will make sense to you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:25:34 2018 No.12218329 Again with the breeder just disregarding everything and going on to think anti natalism is about preventing suffering or some "selfless act".

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:28:27 2018 No.12218339

I don't care what happens to humanity. I mean, if I had a choice I would elect that we all cease procreation and go extinct, but I don't have that choice and it's not something that I feel strongly about. Rather I'm concerned about whether I myself procreate. This is the actual issue of antinatalism, I think: not some grand plan for the future of humanity, but whether I myself can willingly inflict the disease of life (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say the disease of consciousness or self-awareness) upon another person; the answer is that I cannot, for a variety of reasons.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:29:37 2018 No.12218344

>>12218320
There wouldn't be the need to, you yank.
>>12218322
Breeding is not the end, is a mean to an end, the "point" at the lack of words for it, of all life is to prolong itself, breeding is just a malfunction an aberration an error, we eat to live, we breath to live, but breeding isn't necessary to live.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:31:47 2018 No.12218348 >>12218299 >why i want to continue my bloodline. I can't help but laugh when I see someone that's actually concerned with this.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:36:00 2018 No.12218356

Anti-natalism threads are truly worse than Rand and Evola posting put together. It's always some extremely underage people that think their teenage hormonal throes are le crushing existential angst and that the existence of latter alone somehow justifies Benatar's autism. It doesn't. All of this nu-male "philosophy" is built on a single premise that any amount of suffering outweighs any amount of pleasure. And there is no logical basis under it whatsoever, it's just something you have to take as an axiom to justify attaching a trendy label to yourself and larp as a bohemian thinker on freshie mixers while you bore everyone to death with your watered down söy-pessimism. I mean step it up, read some Mainländer and actually follow him into the noose - now that would truly impress everyone. And unshit my board.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:37:32 2018 No.12218359 >>12218329 >the breeder Stay in your cuckshed, vapid faggot.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:44:09 2018 No.12218378

I always get the impression that natalists feel threatened by antinatalism for some reason, as they react against it emotionally in such a harsh way. I don't think it's even possible to have a conversation about it with most people since natalists will start having an emotional outburst if you even bring it up. I would never mention antinatalism in real life for this reason. When someone me why I don't have kids I just say I haven't gotten around to it yet or something.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:44:21 2018 No.12218379
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>I contend that we are both antinatalists.I just believe in bringing one (two? three?) child fewer into this world that you do. Once you understand why you deny the "gift of life" to all other children, you will understand why I deny it to one.
No natalist will ever uncuck himself from this. If life is such a beautiful gift worth expiencing, then surely you MUST grant to as many people as possible. A virile male can manage at least 4-5 strong ejaculations in a day, which means the potential of ~1500 babies every year. Some 75000 possible babies in a fertile lifetime. And yet, most life-affirming, happy go-positive men (including ones ITT) are satisfied with just one or two. Who the fuck are you deny the gift of life to another 74998 possible humans, you lazy pig? Life is about procreating, isn't it? I'll tell you why. Because childmaking is an egotistical act, and stop acting like it's not. Nobody ever conceived a child for the sake of that child, and not just because there's no way to consult an unborn baby and ask them if they want to be thrown into this world.
>inb4 reaching
Cause saying "LMAO JUST KILL SELF" isn't reaching, apparently.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:45:41 2018 No.12218383 >never be born, never get a chance to live or >be born, get a chance to live, can kill self whenever

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:45:43 2018 No.12218384 Natalists who talk about the beauty and gift of life are the same people that will tell you it's better for a baby to be aborted than be raised in an orphanage.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:47:16 2018 No.12218390 >>12218383 Suicide isn't a switch you throw, it's a traumatic act of self-destruction that a person may not ever find themselves capable of doing. This manner of discussing suicide is incredibly vulgar and ignorant.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:49:04 2018 No.12218397 >>12218348 Well then, laugh on i guess, buddy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:49:54 2018 No.12218399 >>12218397 It makes me think of an ant stressing about whether his anthill will continue into the future. It just seems so silly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:50:28 2018 No.12218402 >>12218348 Woah how enlightened

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:51:44 2018 No.12218408 >>12218378 >"I don't really want to have kids" >"Oh okay" Its really not hard, snowflake

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:52:13 2018 No.12218409 >>12215725 Well, if it means OP won't be breeding and perpetuate such genes, it can be a good thing...

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:52:45 2018 No.12218411 >>12218379 >what are limited resources

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:52:53 2018 No.12218412 >>12218399 Yeah, different strokes for different folks. I find the idea of passing on my genes important.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:52:53 2018 No.12218413 >>12218408 I know from experience that people will ask why you don't want any. It's better to give an answer that will actually shut down the conversation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:53:55 2018 No.12218417 >>12218411 Doesn't matter. It's up to that child to decide whether his life is worth it. There will be happy moments that will make everything worthwhile even if he starves to death.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:53:56 2018 No.12218418 my shitposts ARE my children. I reproduce prolifically.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:54:26 2018 No.12218421 >>12218170 >Seething

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:54:59 2018 No.12218422 >>12218402 >>12218408 Hammer the nail innit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:55:33 2018 No.12218424 >>12218413 Because if you start making anti-natalist """arguments""" then you're indirectly commenting on their own decision to have children. They would be right to oppose you and find you irritating.

dartmouthanon !!4XFmI2P6SUX Wed Dec 12 10:56:32 2018 No.12218427

>>12218378
>"why haven't you had kids"
>"well i just cant bring myself to bring people that can't consent into the sum negative experience of a conscious existence. Also it was morally incorrect for you to have children, Deborah"
Maybe it's because your philosophy is shit and makes you sound like an edgelord? "Let's let the human race die out so nobody has to feel pain again" is the ultimate philosophical copout

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:56:35 2018 No.12218428 >>12218417 This is such a bad strawman

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:57:12 2018 No.12218431 >>12218424 Yes, in other words they will have an emotional outburst at hearing something they don't like, which is exactly why I said I don't talk about it. Are you dense?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:57:59 2018 No.12218433 >>12215725 Can you tell me why natalism needs to be explicitly justified?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:58:15 2018 No.12218434 >>12218427 >ultimate philosophical copout Is there some reason we shouldn't cop out?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:59:05 2018 No.12218437 >>12218431 Its not because they "don't like it," its because you're telling them that their own decision is wrong without any serious argument. Its rude and philosophically retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:59:46 2018 No.12218438 >>12218379 >either life is so bad that existing in any conditons is always bad or it's so good that it's always good Woah, epic btfo bruh. How's that Fortnite match going?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 10:59:55 2018 No.12218439 >>12218434 Because I say so.

>>	dartmouthanon !!4XFmI2P6SUX Wed Dec 12 11:00:13 2018 No.12218440 >>12217367 Pandas lmao

>>	dartmouthanon !!4XFmI2P6SUX Wed Dec 12 11:03:04 2018 No.12218445 >>12218434 Because human beings are conscious and have a greater purpose and potential toward sum good creation than any other animal. to deny this is quite literally nothing more than being an emo.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:03:10 2018 No.12218446

>>12218383
>get a chance to live
Way to sugar it up
Now, why do you think thousands of people who suffer horrible chronic pains their whole lives aren't checking out in droves? Why do you think antinatalists and the depressed aren't checking out? It's because just like
>>12217210
noted, all species that made it so far in the evolutionary rat race have within their being a hardwired obsession with survival and procreation. Select few deviant humans have the ability to just override their biological programming, and even those are shamed and guilted into living by societal pressures.This is the crux of antinatalism: to be born is to be placed into a torture chamber, and have a spell placed on you which makes you irrationaly in love with that chamber.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:05:00 2018 No.12218451 >itt people who have never seriously considered epicurus or read the principal doctrines

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:05:16 2018 No.12218452 >>12218446 >This is the crux of antinatalism: to spread pseud ramblings based on a wholly unjustified premise

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:05:31 2018 No.12218453

>>12218446
>to be born is to be placed into a torture chamber, and have a spell placed on you which makes you irrationaly in love with that chamber.
If we are in love with the chamber, why should we leave it? If suffering is not enough to stifle our love towards it, why should we be against it in the first place?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:06:10 2018 No.12218455 >>12218073 >with his irrelevant horeshit When the time comes I will be so happy to give you to the dark crowd, I'm sure they will be grateful and will appreciate that you defended them.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:06:20 2018 No.12218456

>>12218437
I don't care what they did. I only care about myself. If you want to get emotional about my own choices, which have nothing to do with you, and which you chose to ask me about, that's your own problem. But nevertheless I will spare you from having a temper tantrum and keep silent. Isn't that kind?
>>12218445
>and have a greater purpose and potential toward sum good creation
Gobbledygook nonsense. Humans are no better than rats or cockroaches.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:06:24 2018 No.12218457 >>12215725 >The only species able to save and preserve the planet and the solar system refuses to do it kek

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:06:33 2018 No.12218458 >>12218451 t. pseud who's more interested in signaling his own virtues than taking part in the discussion

>>	dartmouthanon !!4XFmI2P6SUX Wed Dec 12 11:06:41 2018 No.12218459 >>12218446 Ahahaha you gave it away you massive tool, you directly stated that you think you are intellectually superior for not wanting to have children and have discovered some great secret of living. Please go read a fucking book.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:07:55 2018 No.12218464 >>12218459 >Please go read a fucking book. Okay, I will read an antinatalist book.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:09:43 2018 No.12218467 >>12218453 >If suffering is not enough to stifle our love towards it, It has quite stifled mine.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:09:44 2018 No.12218468 >>12218456 >Humans are no better than rats or cockroaches. *citation needed

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:10:44 2018 No.12218473 >>12218468 What would they be better at? Making art? Science? These are simply humans doing a human thing. Like a dog eats its vomit a human creates art. It isn't special.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:10:58 2018 No.12218474 >>12218467 And the rest of the universe's consciousness should remove itself from existence because a single infinitesimal part of it is depressed?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:11:15 2018 No.12218476 >>12218459 Where in the world did I say anything about intellectual superiority, dipshit?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:11:45 2018 No.12218479
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>>12218446
>Select few deviant humans
A large amount of humans decide to not have children for a variety of rational reasons, particularly in developed countries. You're only deviant in the sense that you try to conceal your true motives under the skirts of pseudointellectual pop-phil mottos.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:12:12 2018 No.12218483 >>12218474 I don't particularly care what other people do. I don't have any basis to say having children is wrong, as I have no basis to say anything is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:12:18 2018 No.12218484 >>12218457 Amount of fucks our solar system gives about 'being saved': >0.00000000

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:13:26 2018 No.12218489 >>12218473 Humans can also eat vomit if they want to. Instead they make art.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:13:28 2018 No.12218490 >>12218479 Was talking about suicide, addressing the common just-kill-urself mantra from the natalists.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:13:38 2018 No.12218491 >>12218484 Are humans not a part of the solar system?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:14:28 2018 No.12218494 >>12218483 What basis do you have to say that?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:15:07 2018 No.12218496 >>12218494 The assertion of my own will.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:15:36 2018 No.12218497 >>12218484 Stop anthropomorphising the solar system

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:17:08 2018 No.12218500 >>12218490 >the common just-kill-urself mantra And it's a perfectly valid point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:17:38 2018 No.12218501 >>12218496 Okay. Ignored.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:27:36 2018 No.12218533
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>all matter and energy in the universe is hurtling towards maximum entropy
>natalist retards are not only insistent on creating a monument to the futility our existence, but also want others to acknowledge this as a moral action and often expect others to support them through the state
No.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:29:03 2018 No.12218539 >>12218501 Yes, your little "but if nothing is true then how can you say nothing is true" semantic game isn't going to work.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:31:51 2018 No.12218547 File: 85 KB, 432x568, lastquestion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12218533 >create singularity >use it to manufacture means of escaping into other dimensions as pure sentient energy because it happens heh...nothing personnel 2nd law

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:32:45 2018 No.12218551 >>12218539 Why not? You made a self-defeating, unfounded statement so I responded to it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:33:48 2018 No.12218558 >>12218533 >It’s not eternal so it can’t be good

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:33:57 2018 No.12218560 >>12218551 It was not. I said I could not have a basis for moral oughts, not that I could not know anything.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:41:37 2018 No.12218577

>>12218558
Show me an argument that it is, because you can't make an empty-headed appeal to nature when all observable reality is slowly suiciding. Life is a temporary disease, a benign tumor, a skidmark on the universe's underwear. It won't be around for very long in the grand scheme of things because the way the universe is structured favors it not existing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:44:57 2018 No.12218583 >>12218577 >suiciding >temporary >disease >tumor >skidmark >favors These are all emotive terms. Not a single valid argument.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:51:51 2018 No.12218598 >>12218383 I'd rather not have a chance to live than having to mourn for decades over the fact that I'm going to lose the only thing I have that matters. Wishing to never have existed is not the same thing as wishing to die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 11:59:29 2018 No.12218618 >>12218560 Cool

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:00:49 2018 No.12218622 >>12218598 It’s your choice to mourn and feel that death ruins the value of life, it’s not a necessary belief.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:03:30 2018 No.12218630 >>12218622 I'm not saying it is

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:03:49 2018 No.12218631 >>12218132 /thread do your fuckin jobs JANNIES

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:04:36 2018 No.12218634 >>12218630 Cool

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:04:40 2018 No.12218636 File: 880 KB, 1895x1181, 1504095804981.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12218124 >tfw to smart too be happy

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:05:06 2018 No.12218640 >>12218583 >respond to my lack of arguments with an argument lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:06:41 2018 No.12218643 >"And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein." If you don't like His reality, and his rules, move.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:08:03 2018 No.12218649
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>>12215725
I'm an antinatalist, but I'll give it a shot. Life is rare and complex - we haven't found it anywhere else yet, and the human brain is objectively a marvel. We've stumbled into something far from perfect, but I feel like it's worth going as far as we can wrt science and art, even though it's going to end someday in the far future. I just can't see a dead planet as some kind of victory.

I'm not having kids (suffering, boredom, and death anxiety for them; guilt for me) but I'm not opposed to healthy, financially secure people having them. Not my guilt if their kids don't like life, and I want the human race to continue. Suffering is forgotten in the long run anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:08:13 2018 No.12218651 >>12218640 >life isn’t worth living because entropy >why is entropy bad? >because it’s really horrible, we’re like a skidmark and stuff

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:18:39 2018 No.12218681 The real patrician position is antinatalism so long as society continues to be something you would not want to force someone to experience

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:21:05 2018 No.12218694 >>12217613 imagine having children and still posting on this board lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:22:48 2018 No.12218699 >>12217613 Good post. Please make sure your children don’t grow up to become like the cynical teenagers in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:23:09 2018 No.12218700 >>12218681 please read >>12218036 Antinatalism is independent from society's wellbeing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:24:54 2018 No.12218705 >>12218700 relative vs absolute antinatalism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:29:42 2018 No.12218714 >>12218207 thanks joe rogan

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:56:21 2018 No.12218788

Listen up, buckaroos. The world doesn't owe you anything. My grandpappy walked 10 miles to school, uphill - both ways, and starved to death when he was 18, but he had 12 children goddammit, and they may all have burned to death in a house fire, but they had several brief moments of happiness, I have no doubt, which made their lives worth living. And if they didn't? Too fucking bad. So therefore you need to have children, comprende?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 12:56:53 2018 No.12218791

>>12218479
>A large amount of humans decide to not have children for a variety of rational reasons, particularly in developed countries.
Pure hedonism and lack of civic duty for these responsibilities are essential to the continuity of society, anything under 2 birth per woman is justification for prohibition of female college education.
The evil part is observing this anomaly passively.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:00:03 2018 No.12218801

I swear everytime I read a thread like this, that I should write a book or a little essay on the subject. I'm an antinatalist mainly because of three points. 1) you never consent being born, you are thrown into the world. 2) ultimate responsability, namely, every parent is ultimately responsible for all the good or bad that happens to his son or daughter 3) inevitable death, following point 2, death is almost always bad so no matter how good you did as a parent, you will make a conscious being who did not consent being born, to be aware of his own demise, for which you as a parent are entirely responsible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:00:11 2018 No.12218802 >>12218791 >civic duty The cuck is real

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:02:00 2018 No.12218803

>>12215725
If you do not propagate humanity what is the point of going on with your life at all? You are aware of the insignificance of your actions in the context of the universe so why go on living? Inertia?

By having kids you allow humanity a chance to become a phenomenon in the universe by thecnological advancement.

I understand that at first it may look like one of the most selfish things one can do. But it is the only way out of the meaninglessness of all of our actions

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:03:20 2018 No.12218804 File: 48 KB, 454x395, DEk-VPIUwAET5Id.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] shakespeare wouldve called you a faggot faggot

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:04:10 2018 No.12218807 >>12218803 No matter what you do in the universe your actions are meaningless, no matter what you create, no matter how far you advance. Stop deluding yourself. And the reason I go on living is that I enjoy masturbating.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:09:53 2018 No.12218827

>>12218801
>1) you never consent being born, you are thrown into the world.
Of course you consent! A sperm entering deliberately the egg to form the zygote. You rationalizing or not, you are not throw into the world, you came by instinct. Watch dogs eating or whales mating, they don't see mad at all.
>inb4 the sperm is not you

>2) ultimate responsability, namely, every parent is ultimately responsible for all the good or bad that happens to his son or daughter
Therefore you could be a good parent and save the world of more suffering. Did you know that only being alive and working with very little savings already contributes to society?

>3) inevitable death, following point 2, death is almost always bad so no matter how good you did as a parent, you will make a conscious being who did not consent being born, to be aware of his own demise, for which you as a parent are entirely responsible.
You came by instinct and that's the deal everyone got: live, try to breed and whatever happens next with you doesn't matter. Your body will be recycled by nature, thanks for your service, you already played the gene game, nature just hopes you didn't do it without love. Bye!

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:10:55 2018 No.12218830

>>12218807
They are meaningless today, but who knows what lies ahead for humanity.

The only way to find out is to keep going, join the gods or die trying.

You believe in something anon. Don't kid yourself. Everyone alive does. It is just a matter of knowing in what you do.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:33:24 2018 No.12218907

>>12218827
I'm aware of the accidental, meaningless nature of my existence and my inevitable demise. I think that's a shitty deal and I choose not to bring people to deal with it. It's kinda funny that you think that I care about contributing to society by bringing a kid. I contribute to society, but as a tourist. I don't care about the future of democracy, islamization of Europe, eugenics or anything else. Once I ran out of money, I will vanish. I play with love, I try at least.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:36:34 2018 No.12218919

>>12218907
>I don't care about the future of democracy, islamization of Europe, eugenics or anything else.
My life became much more peaceful once I stopped caring about the future in any way. All of the worry people go through over it looks farcical now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:36:54 2018 No.12218921 >>12218699 >the cynical teenagers in this thread. It's just a phase they're going through. Once they meet a nice girl all this misanthropy will be forgotten and they'll cringe to be reminded of it

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:40:52 2018 No.12218934 >>12218921 I'm almost 30. I have had girlfriends before and it did not make me happy or want to have children.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:47:21 2018 No.12218947

>>12218919
It's fucking laughable if you ask me. When I have dinner with my parents and they talk me about the news, sports, gas prices and so on, I barely can produce a sigh. I have an incredible amount of peace. Many of our fears are predicated, and rightly so, because if you have kids, you HAVE to care about that, because as I argued before, you are ultimately responsible. I don't, I just see it all as a consequence of our endless quest for trascendence.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:47:27 2018 No.12218950

>>12218830
>You believe in something anon. Don't kid yourself. Everyone alive does. It is just a matter of knowing in what you do.

What if belief and "knowing in what you do" is a post-hoc rationalization fabricated by your subconscious brain, which functions only to maintain and propagate itself (live and grow) as a chemical reaction, stagnant and programmed?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:50:49 2018 No.12218958 >>12218934 >almost 30 and still in your emo phase Embarrassing desu.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:52:35 2018 No.12218968 >>12218958 Claiming maturity is just a coping mechanism.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:52:49 2018 No.12218969

>>12218934
Classical cope from breeders. Many happy people are childless by choice. I've discussed breeding with people. They recoil at the idea, I think that breeding is an unspoken bet on society, a compromise, an allegiance to our culture. When you reject breeding an attack on that is made, and they just don't like it one bit.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:54:10 2018 No.12218973

>>12218934
>>12218907
I'm 20 but whenever I see something like these posts I think:"I was born to fuck the world, either through a lovely female hole or like a central bank which I hate" and since this is a precondition to live, idk I couldn't think myself like without these prerogatives.
It may be that I was born poor and I'm smart enough to ascend and life happily(I'm never truly depressed, once the bottom mood is reached anything makes me laugh and I'm out of it, no point in sadness, it never makes a propagation story) but many agree that intelligence alone doesn't lead to happiness. Maybe the good experiences I have outweigh the bad I had and that this sort of pleasure is new for me, but I'm very patient and not involved in these meat/consumerist kinds of pleasures.

>>12218947
It's a quest for immortality of what we love anon, not necessarily children, but they are a must for a normie life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 13:55:37 2018 No.12218978 >>12217754 If you object to life (which in essence is what anti-natalism is) then suicide will end all life for your own perception.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:07:05 2018 No.12219026

The almost weekly antinatalism thread that I've replied to in vain so many times. Though I must confess that the refutations here are equally shitty if not worse.

>>12218804

I mean what the fuck IS this? Purple prose, tin ear, AND bad advice. The Anglo literary trinity?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:10:08 2018 No.12219036 >>12219026 >Though I must confess that the refutations here are equally shitty if not worse. If the universe is full of suffering the quickest way to end it (and the suffering) is to kill yourself. No perception = no universe = no suffering.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:10:27 2018 No.12219037 >>12218124 tips fedora

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:11:05 2018 No.12219040 >>12218299 >getting this emotionally triggered without a single thought to the philosophical argument Get off the internet my man

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:19:56 2018 No.12219077 >>12219026 >prose yeesh try again

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:21:28 2018 No.12219083 >>12218299 cringe

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:36:30 2018 No.12219151
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Is there anything more anti-intellectual than wasting an enormous amount of time on producing and rearing children? I don't understand how you can claim to be devoted to arts and sciences then turn around and throw half your life away to appease some thot. This seems like common sense to me. I don't know what the fuck is going on in this thread.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:39:27 2018 No.12219170

>>12218124
It's not a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of the motivation people have to believe things. For the things that are related to one's ego or idea of self, the motivation is about 95% emotion or ego-driven, and 5% based on what seems likely to be true or not.

there are a whole host of topics about which you should just never bother to talk to your average person, and I mean even very intelligent people. Only people on the far right side of the 'autistically values truth over their own mental state' bell curve will ever talk about this stuff honestly.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:43:03 2018 No.12219182

>>12218950
It makes no diference if it is or not. If you can't run away from it you might as well regard it as true.

Even if the pursuit is a lie, if it is an irrefutable one the purpose of trying to unveil it is futile.

If someone were to really believe in what you are implying their only way out would be suicide, for it would be the end of rationalization. And with that we would be no diferente than animals, with no reason to exist.

Nihilism is only a valid experience if it is overcomed.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:43:26 2018 No.12219185

It's hard to think beyond my specific life and experience, just because I'm an austist who overthinks everything doesn't mean my kid will be. I fully realize that I'm not owed anything, there is good to behold, a lot of my depressing views are self inflicted, etc; I don't hate life or procreation nor do I think it's morally wrong, I just can't envision personally wanting to have and raise a child. Although I have found some peace in my life, it wasn't easy and my being content is not enough for me to look favorably upon the whole process. As with a lot of things I've chalked it up to "when I get older maybe I'll understand more", because wtf do I know about the universe to properly appraise it, but as of right now the thought of a child is crazy talk considering what I still have left to do in my own life (then again, I am pretty young). Within the mix of deeply ingrained desires, all sorts of (arguably) arbitrary morality, tough realities and questions...I think there is an argument to be made for antinatalism somewhere. I don't agree that it is objective, but I do believe it is perfectly rational for some people, and the overall discussion we're getting at is very much worth having. Ironically I hold "the human condition" in very high esteem, I'm not spiteful that it's difficult, I just find the responsibility of bestowing it to be quite heavy

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 14:54:25 2018 No.12219245

>>12219182
>if you don't propagate what is the point?
>we could maybe invent something great in the future (?????)
>If you can't run away from it you might as well regard it as true.
>Even if it's a lie, you can't prove it, so why try?
Do you find this to be a persuasive argument?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:09:41 2018 No.12219299

>>12219245
Uncertainty will be ever present. I can't guarantee the future of course, but what is the point of this meaningless existence that you preach besides sounding edgy?

If you find hitting a wall of nothingness in the end of your life persuasive all I can do is invite you to a reflection. This doesn't imply after life, let that be clear.

>if you don't propagate what is the point?
Going back to that. My point is that if we stop now why did we start anyway? And why would we go on tomorrow? Why not end it all today? I am no trying to convince you specifically to have childrem, just saying that there maybe a reason for humanity to go foward.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:25:56 2018 No.12219342
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>be antinatalist
>realise you're never going to stop people from breeding and that antinatalism is actually just empty posturing
>decide that if we are not going to stop human existence we might as well make it as good as possible

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:26:04 2018 No.12219343 >>12219299 "We" didn't start anything. At some point, due to random mutations, monkeys evolved into slightly more able monkeys. There isn't any grand design to this shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:28:01 2018 No.12219349 >>12219343 >There isn't any grand design *citation needed

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:29:42 2018 No.12219359 File: 70 KB, 720x693, 4d8a695e0a429908fed420de2ba9ae5be17ddcf496c5e5637f15acf1edc12863.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12219342 I miss him

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:30:27 2018 No.12219363 >>12219342 >a million flies can't be wrong >so we may as well wallow in shit as hard as we can xDDDD

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:36:11 2018 No.12219376

>>12219299
Well I'm not that other guy, I just thought you could argue your points more solidly. I am 100 percent with you on that very last sentence. Someone made a good point about the distinction between not wanting kids yourself, and believing society at large shouldn't be

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:39:35 2018 No.12219392 >>12218681 underrated post, based.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:41:44 2018 No.12219400 File: 206 KB, 500x889, 1544487158942.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12219363 >flies doing fly things >"no that's wrong!" imagine being this retarded

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:45:30 2018 No.12219411

>>12219343
Dude I am not saying that. I meant "why before and why after?". I don't believe in god either.

I used to say to everyone that having childrem was the single most selfish and egocentric act one could perform. The argument was similar to yours, and nobody new how to refute it. But I started pondering and came to the conclusions that you found "not persuasive". And I believe they are pretty solid.

Looking at the discoveries in physics it has been proven that we can do some really amazing things, given that we are able to develop the right equipement. This achievements alone would be amazing to contemplate. Interplanetary traveling, maybe even intergalatic, who knows. But we will only have the chance to see that if we don't give up on us.

It is like the leap of faith that kierkegaard talked about but from a atheist perspective.

Having childrem is undeniably putting someone in this world to suffer, but we all have something that make our suffering worth it

Even now the suffering that you experience is worth it because you believe in something, even if you don't know that. The alternative to complete disbelief is suicide. And you are not dead.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:47:07 2018 No.12219417 >>12215732 Hume did not believe this, stop posting

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:49:00 2018 No.12219426 It depends. If you're interested and educating a person and making their life great you might want to have children

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:49:52 2018 No.12219427 >>12219417 yes he did

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:51:51 2018 No.12219437 >>12219363 It's more like: >a million flies can't be stopped >so we may as well wallow in the best shit possible

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 15:58:16 2018 No.12219451

>>12217210
Life does not desire, it simply does. It's a coincidental mechanism that happens to propagate itself. Rain falls due to the processes of nature, but no one would say it's right and moral for it to rain. If we're "hard-wired" for anything, anyway, it's death.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:04:38 2018 No.12219473 >>12218408 This is so blatantly not what is going on in this thread that it's hilarious.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:21:33 2018 No.12219540 >>12218299 Why are you even on /lit/? >>12218348 It's always 'muh genes' or 'muh bloodline' with people like this, they view their children as merely a way to lessen their own fear of death.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:24:05 2018 No.12219555 >>12218412 Do you believe that you'll continue to exist after you die?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:24:59 2018 No.12219563 >>12219473 This thread is a bunch of 4channers debating antinatalism, not an irl conversation between two adults.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:32:28 2018 No.12219586

>>12218827
>Of course you consent! A sperm entering deliberately the egg to form the zygote.
A Sperm cell is not a person, an egg cell is not a person, no one the has ever existed, exists now, or will ever exist, was ever a Sperm cell or an egg cell.
>Your body will be recycled by nature, thanks for your service, you already played the gene game, nature just hopes you didn't do it without love. Bye!
Your flippant attitude towards life and death is disgusting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:37:56 2018 No.12219599 >>12215725 You are correct. There's no justification for anti-natalism. Prove me wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:41:13 2018 No.12219614 Literally nothing wrong with appealing to nature

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:41:40 2018 No.12219616 File: 26 KB, 412x351, 14617926725330.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >give birth to a child >he becomes a janny on 4channel How can one advocate for bringing people into existence where such horrors are possible?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:41:59 2018 No.12219617

>>12219026
That's because everyone ITT only evaluates the quality of their own lives, and don't understand that making life is a harm for both the biosphere, society, and other people. Capitalism kills more animals a year than the number of humans that have ever existed, animals eat one another. You work 40 hours a week, if you're lucky enough that your boss' power fetish isn't more severe. And most of the people on this dying planet is in miserable poverty, and I don't have to be miserable myself to acknowledge that.
We're so hard-wired to self-preservation, that we're blind to anything that's obviously a harm.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:43:50 2018 No.12219625 >>12219342 The word itself just mean that life is negative. so it's just waking up and acknowledging that it is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:45:25 2018 No.12219632 >>12219614 Nature is out to get you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 16:55:24 2018 No.12219673 >>12219617 >making life is a harm for both the biosphere Why do you care about the biosphere? I thought life had no value or something

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:01:54 2018 No.12219696 >>12219673 That's nihilism. If you acknowledge that life would've been better off not having occurred, then you're valuing the absence of pain and suffering.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:03:56 2018 No.12219705 >>12219696 so we should kill everything on earth?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:05:31 2018 No.12219714 >>12219696 No biosphere = no pain and suffering

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:07:10 2018 No.12219722 >>12219705 Antinatalism isn't about doing anything, I just like acknowledging that life is flawed to the core >>12219714 yes

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:16:15 2018 No.12219750 >>12219616 wtf i hate breeding now

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 17:25:42 2018 No.12219775 >>12218082 >Why would you force someone to play a game no one can win? If you don't win by not playing the game what difference does it make?

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:02:18 2018 No.12219939

>>12219182
>If someone were to really believe in what you are implying their only way out would be suicide

Or you would live at ease with the Tao and and appreciate the illusion of how things look, smell, feel, sound, or taste you and all around return to complete entropy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:03:55 2018 No.12219944 >>12219349 >*citation needed The opposite argument "there is a grand design" (I.E. anything with a smidgen of "purpose" for all things beyond the random probability of things existing).

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:06:25 2018 No.12219951 >>12219722 >Antinatalism isn't about doing anything, I just like acknowledging that life is flawed to the core In what way is it flawed? Could you provide an example of a superior alternative model?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:13:15 2018 No.12219983 >>12219563 >implying adults act like adults anymore

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:14:04 2018 No.12219986

>>12219617
>That's because everyone ITT only evaluates the quality of their own lives, and don't understand that making life is a harm for both the biosphere, society, and other peo
You either take man's judgment as the highest or a chickens or something else, you can't say that life is bad for the environment because maybe it is just bad for you. As man, and I mean european men, has always been the ultimate judge, it would be nonsensical to take another being values. Therefore, fuck the biosphere, society, wamen rights, I'm going to be happy and fuck you too self-defeating nigger.

>Capitalism kills more animals a year than the number of humans that have ever existed
On the level we are arguing it doesn't matter. If I'm god's son, nature is there to suck me when I tame it. If I'm part of nature then fuck it is my nature either way.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:19:52 2018 No.12220009 >>12219722 Well I'm sold. Better to destroy all life on Earth lest sometimes someone feels sad

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:23:01 2018 No.12220019

>>12219722
>>12220009
What is the flaw of live? If god made it then it's perfect. If life evolved until from the simplest forms until today it's sort of Dr. Manhattan insight of the impressive feat it has done on its on. Some self-defeating losers out of billions of functioning humans is a loss nature can have.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:36:41 2018 No.12220060

>>12219951
Not existing. That way can't be any flaws to outweigh the benefits, that's the whole premise.
>>12219986
>>12220019
It's because of religious savages like you that we can't reach such enlightenment. Maybe grow up and then we can have an adult conversation without gods and fairies and dragons. I know it's bait but i'm replying anyway, because god sed so

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:38:31 2018 No.12220065
File: 56 KB, 570x691, Watkins.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mfw people argue whether it's moral to have kids
>mfw i have 5 kids and teach them to beat up anti-natalists when they're old and decrepit
That's why you shouldn't be an anti-natalist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 18:49:51 2018 No.12220106 >>12220065 BASED AND GIVE ME YOUR LUNCH MONEYPILLED

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:02:43 2018 No.12220162 >>12220106 No but really, anti-natalism is a dead end, and it shows why this universe doesnt care for any morals, only material success.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:02:46 2018 No.12220163 >>12220060 >gods and fairies and dragons

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:07:38 2018 No.12220179

>>12220060
>It's because of religious savages like you that we can't reach such enlightenment. Maybe grow up and then we can have an adult conversation without gods and fairies and dragons. I know it's bait but i'm replying anyway, because god sed so
Any religious savage has knowledge worth more than you nihilism: he and his prole will be part of the future, that's why we speak and that's why what you say has as much relevance as hysterical woman's words.

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:15:14 2018 No.12220206

>>12220060
Your position is so easy to adopt. Everyone doubts the value of life sometimes. Everyone has suspected that everything is meaningless at one point in their life. There’s nothing special about that. What makes you special is that you’re the only one stupid enough to stay in that dumb mindset.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:19:39 2018 No.12220224 >>12220206 How is it stupid?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:22:24 2018 No.12220230 >>12220224 See: the rest of the thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:26:32 2018 No.12220248 >>12220224 Waste your whole life insisting that life is worthless if you want. Just don’t expect to convince anyone else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:29:46 2018 No.12220257 >>12220230 >>12220248 compelling arguments

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:31:37 2018 No.12220261 >>12220257 There are clearly no arguments that will convince you so why bother arguing? Please carry on as an enlightened antinatalist, I’m sure life will be as worthless as you think is. Enjoy!

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 12 19:51:09 2018 No.12220326 I MISS THE KISS OF TREACHERY

Anonymous Wed Dec 12 21:01:13 2018 No.12220546

>>12218049
This

Meaning and purpose are just words to describe things that only make sense in a human context. Looking for a meaning of life is like looking for a meaning for a rock or tree, it doesn't even make sense. How can a rock have meaning? It's just a rock. If you want to find what it's made of that's a type of meaning, if you want to find out how old it is that's a type meaning, but there's no overarching general "meaning" to a rock.

Meaning is not a thing that exists at all expect in the minds of people
Existential angst is the period when someone is upset that life is meaningless because they still think the universe should or even could have a meaning. They still think meaning exists as an objective thing and that our universe just doesn't have it.

The whole problem is just in your head. All you need to do is relax your mind and the universe becomes perfect.

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/lit/ - Literature