holy...

[Anonymous No.12206762]

"An altogether extraordinary fact is the rapidity with which Medieval civilization was completely forgotten; already in the seventeenth century, men had lost all idea of what it had been, and its surviving monuments no longer had any meaning for them, either intellectually or even aesthetically; all this is proof enough of how far the general mentality had changed. We shall not here investigate the factors - and they are certainly complex - that contributed to bringing about a change so radical that it seems difficult to admit that it can have occurred spontaneously, without the intervention of some directing will whose exact nature must remain rather enigmatic. In this connection, one may note some very strange circumstances, such as the popularization at a certain moment, under the form of new discoveries, of things that had in reality been known for a very long time, but not generally disclosed, since the disadvantages of so doing ran the risk of outweighing the advantages. It is also improbable that the legend alleging that the Middle Ages were a time of gloom, ignorance, and barbarism could have arisen and become accepted, or that the veritable falsification of history in which the moderns have indulged, could have been accomplished in the absence of some preconceived idea..."

What exactly is Rene Guenon referring to here?

[Anonymous No.12206817]

'The Counter Tradition, counter-traditional forces etc', he has a chapter on them in Reign of Quantity. He is not just trying to hint Jews because he has no problem openly mentioning their over-representation in Bolshevism in his book East and West, it goes deeper then them. From what I can understand, and I haven't read every single chapter of every book where he mentions them; is that they are people who through their actions and intentions align with the chaotic forces of the universe, and work either intentionally or unintentionally towards subverting the tradition and the cosmic hierarchy/order/dharma. It's sort of like part of the equilibrium of the cosmic being is that there is both order and disorder and that inevitably among the individual beings some will cluster closer to disorder and in doing so will will spread disorder and contribute to things like the Kali Yuga, but these chaotic forces are just the counter-balance of order in a sense and never interrupt the absolute equilibrium and perfection of the supreme principal in which everything is subsumed.

[Anonymous No.12206820]

>>12206762
Despite all of its flaws, the Middle Ages were the last time the West were close with God and had a metaphysical understanding of Him (i.e. Scholasticism).

[Anonymous No.12206989]

>>12206817
Interesting. Is East and West a good read?

[Anonymous No.12207019]

>>12206762
>We shall not here investigate the factors - and they are certainly complex - that contributed to bringing about a change so radical that it seems difficult to admit that it can have occurred spontaneously, without the intervention of some directing will whose exact nature must remain rather enigmatic

[Anonymous No.12207042]

>>12207019
It’s so comforting to blame the Jews for things like that when it is much scarier to consider the very real possibility of cultural amnesia, cultural dimentia and cultural death as natural, albeit slightly metaphysical phenomena. This is why Nietzsche dismissed the antisemites, they fail to see that Jewish cosmopolitanism is merely a symptom of the underlying decay. A culture dies like a body. As does God. And so on.

[Anonymous No.12207074]

>>12207042
yea thats waay scarier

[Anonymous No.12207141]

>>12207042
that's not why nietzsche dismissed antisemites
it's also not comforting to think that whenever a civilization gets complacent, a pack of rabid toothless hyenas is going to sneak in and heckle it into accelerated self-destruction; it being a cause or an effect is pretty irrelevant because it needs to be dealt with either way

[Anonymous No.12207149]

>>12207141
A healthy body is resistant to disease, but lack of health invites it in, so really no you can kill all the Jews and it would still not restore a dying Culture. Putting new shoes on an old horse won’t make it a champion, bud.

[Anonymous No.12207175]

>>12207149
how exactly is removing jews analogous to putting on new shoes?

[Anonymous No.12207198]

>>12207042
Even if all the jews were to die overnight, the disciples of their subversive ideologies would still continue destroying everything that's good in Western civilization while giving birth to new, more "progressive" ideologies to destroy the West. Nothing would change.

[Anonymous No.12207228]

>>12207198
>Nothing would change.
Well isn't that the opposite of "progressive"?

[Anonymous No.12207244]

>>12207198
This is what it feels like to belong to a dying culture. Embrace it and take heart because you will need the experience when facing your own death. We would all love an outright burst of energy like Nazi Germany had. I love that shit. But nazism isn’t the solution. It doesn’t work that way, you can’t just use something that worked under very finite conditions forever. Our world is dying. We can stay on as the very parasites we despise or we can march off into new Hyperboreal realms, become stronger and re-emerge in some far off future when we are strong again, irresistible. If you love your people like you claim then don’t live in fear, the change will not come in this lifetime I guarantee it. We will neither triumph nor perish for a long time yet. Keep old traditions alive, from father to son. “Redpilling normies” on social media is beneath us.

[Anonymous No.12207307]

>>12206989
Only if you really enjoy Guenon's writings, it's usually not considered a major work of his but it helped me understand him better. It's mostly the usual attacks against stuff like scientism, protestantism etc combined with some thoughts of his on the state of the east and how some of them were or were not resisting westernization. At the end he talks about how if the West does not want to eventually be adsorbed by an eastern culture after falling apart itself (he identifies Islam as the most probable candidate but notes this would have the drawback of likely ethnic conflict/revolutions), then it would need to have an intellectual elite study eastern doctrines, and use that knowledge to understand the metaphysical aspects of the western tradition that have to some extent been lost, and from there these people could influence the larger society and reestablish some sort of teaching of traditional metaphysics but in a way that drew from western sources and using western forms.

[Anonymous No.12207337]

>>12206762
>What exactly is Rene Guenon referring to here?
nothing important probably


>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.12207370]

>>12207141
>it's also not comforting to think that whenever a civilization gets complacent, a pack of rabid toothless hyenas is going to sneak in and heckle it into accelerated self-destruction

Actually, it is, because that allows you to find some root "cause" for why your world is going to shit, and hence you have something to "oppose." The problem is the root cause is simple human ignorance, and therefore it's literally impossible to "oppose" (in an external sense.)
Virtually everyone, from your most powerful president to your most naive child and everyone in between, are complicit in it, without even being aware of it. In fact, people targeting Jews is just another sign of cultural decay - it's nothing more than a scapegoating mechanism so that people feel like they have some sense of "control" of their slowly-breaking world.

[Anonymous No.12207379]

>>12207307
> it would need to have an intellectual elite study eastern doctrines, and use that knowledge to understand the metaphysical aspects of the western tradition that have to some extent been lost

Too bad all it took was one gay Arab to put an end to any attempt at this forever.

I've always assumed that Said wrote with Guenon in mind, although I've never really tried to look into it.

[Anonymous No.12207389]

>>12207370
Ishiguro’s book The Buried Giant is kind of about this. The futility of it all.

[Anonymous No.12207405]

>>12207389
I wouldn't say it's futile, in fact there's a lot you can do to navigate the disorder and find a sense of control, it's just not done through blaming on your problems on a random group of people.

[Anonymous No.12207413]

>>12207405
That just sounds like more cope to me. Like we’re living in a floating corpse. Like you’re saying “don’t blame Jews: enjoy new SENSE OF CONTROL in stead!” But I’m saying don’t blame anyone, it’s pointless.

[Anonymous No.12207433]

>>12207413
Well, in order to gain a sense of control you first have to cultivate it. There's a word for this: discipline.

Your average person today is very undisciplined compared to your average person even just two hundred years ago. Technology has given us the impression that we don't have to. But it's also why if you can discipline yourself, you'll be head and shoulders above the rest in your ability to navigate social disorder.

[Anonymous No.12207439]

>>12207433
I’ll bite. Starting this moment I will discipline myself. Books that help?

[Anonymous No.12207453]

>>12206820
Bruh Middle Ages had an understanding of the Greeks, not really God. Many of them got tied up with the principle of non contradiction and how it would falisify gods omnipotence.
Duns Scotus got it tho

[Anonymous No.12207457]

>>12207439
Honestly, my answer would be "any book that inspires you", especially books involving heroes overcoming struggles. I'm strongly of the opinion that you can't really "learn" anything from a book aside from vague intellectual concepts, so trying to read a book to "become disciplined" wouldn't work.

So that's why you should read a book that inspires you instead. It'll give you the motivation and inspiration to want to be like the heroes themselves, which will require you to develop the same levels of discipline they did.

[Anonymous No.12207510]

>>12207379
>I've always assumed that Said wrote with Guenon in mind, although I've never really tried to look into it.

It wasn't, Guenon criticizes orientalists often including throughout his first book. From what I understand Said was attacking people who fetishized the east as exotic and talks about how this factors into imperalist discourse etc, it's a work of anti-colonial critical theory and while it has same valid points it's mostly culture war bullshit in the vein of Foucault and Adorno, which is not at all what Guenon concerned himself with.

[Anonymous No.12207546]

>>12207510
No, I mean that Said's Orientalism was intended as an attack on what he perceived as a the strength of an "enemy" (Western) culture, the ability of orientalists to critically examine Near Eastern culture. Although Said was more concerned about the degree of control this understanding gave over foreign societies and governments rather than its usefulness to the long-term health of Western societies. The anticolonial aspects of Said are just the delivery system for the real payload, which was the delegitimization of effective Western scholarship of foreign cultures and especially the Near East.

Guenon criticized the orientalists because he thought they were wrong, or because their motives weren't pure; Said criticized them because he thought they were right.

[Anonymous No.12207553]

Whites are interested in the east like a rapist is interested in a victim.

There, i have solved all your guilt ridden slumming urges. Now stay the fuck away from our countries.

[Anonymous No.12207621]

>>12207553
bruh

[Anonymous No.12207758]

There's parts in Guenon where he seems to advocate for NWO or at least something that fits the fears of modern conspiracy nuts pretty closely. In Crisis of the Modern World he says that society needs to be guided back on track by a chosen few intellectual elites with the right knowledge, and that these people must need to work in the shadows and be hidden from the perceptions of common men.
Isn't that just what Soros, Koch, rothschilds are purportedly trying to do?

[Anonymous No.12208028]

>>12206817
>>12206989
>. He is not just trying to hint Jews because he has no problem openly mentioning their over-representation in Bolshevism in his book East and West

I would suggest this article by Julius Evola on this matter:
>Regardless of the role played by Jews and Masonry in the modern subversion, it is necessary to recognize clearly the real historical context of their influence, as well as the limit beyond which the occult war is destined to develop by employing forces that not only are no longer those of Judaism and of Masonry, but that could even totally turn against them. To realize this, consider the law of the regression of the castes, which I have employed as a hermeneutic tool in my Revolt Against the Modern World in order to assess the effective meaning of history. From a civilization led by spiritual leaders and by a sacred regality, a shift occurred to civilizations led by mere warrior aristocracies; the latter were eventually replaced by the civilization of the Third Estate. The last stage is the collectivist civilization of the Fourth Estate. When we reflect carefully on things, modern Judaism as a power (quite apart from the concomitant, widespread, and instinctive action of individual Jewish thinkers and writers) is inseparable from capitalism and finance, which fall within the civilization of the Third Estate. The same applies to modern Masonry, which prepared ideologically for and supported the advent of the Third Estate. Masonry still presents itself today as the custodian of the principles of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution, its doctrines acting as a kind of secular religion of modern democracy; its militant action has revealed and continues to reveal itself along this line, openly or in semisecret ways. All this falls within the penultimate phase; this phase, the overall cycle of democratic and capitalist civilization of the Third Estate, will eventually usher in the last collectivist phase, to which it has inadvertently opened the way. It is therefore logical that the role of a central guiding force of global subversion in this last period will no longer be played by Judaism or Masonry and that the main current may turn against both of these groups, as if they were residues to be liquidated once and for all; after all, this can be seen in countries in which regimes controlled by the Fourth Estate (i.e., Marxist regimes) are beginning to be consolidated, even though Jews and Masons contributed to their advent.

http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/The_Secret_Causes_of_History_and_The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion.html

[Anonymous No.12208029]

>>12206762

One of the many arguments against linear Objective Time and bottom-up Materialism. Though I'd argue that the past simply extends "from" - into, really - your mind like a telescope, and neither your mind nor "the past" undergo any Objective movement or change past mere observation.

[Anonymous No.12208525]

>>12207379
No, Edward Said wrote with Bernard Lewis and anglos in mind.

[Anonymous No.12208529]

>>12207389
He won the Nobel Prize for Literature, right?

[Anonymous No.12208564]

>>12207370
people allow jews into their societies because they have decayed. people getting targeted for the behaviors that jews often engage in is normal - "the truth is antisemitic". you are conflating these two things as one in the same when they are not.
regardless i'm not a hardline antisemite or national socialist or anything; i live in an area with a high jewish population and a lot of them are affected by the current absolute state of things just as badly as whites. answers like yours to the jewish question just seem like a cop-out to me.

[Anonymous No.12209402]

>>12207758
The motives are what matter, the Kochs are just driven by greed, Soros and the Rothschilds may have more nefarious intentions but who knows. It is true that there is something conspiratorial to what Guenon is talking about but it's hardly malevolent. He was talking about people who've reached an advanced level of spiritual understanding and who have extensively studied eastern doctrines using that knowledge and experience to help push society in a more traditional and less unwholesome direction, which is very different than Soros shilling for open-borders or the Rothchilds through their Economist magazine trying to convince us to support the TTP/TTIP/EU/free trade/mass migration etc. In every society and government there will be advisers, officials and counselors who are influential on government policy despite being in the shadows or obscure themselves, but if these people were knowledgeable about the right matters and had the right intentions they could have a very beneficial influence. The case of Schuon nonwithstanding, the very studying of these doctrines themselves is almost an assurance of proper motives because most people who end up spending years closely studying Sufism, Vedanta, Daoism, Mahayana etc are going to be deeply and profoundly impacted by it and hence less likely to willingly become a globo-homo nwo shill.

>>12208028
He's not wrong but it also goes far beyond Marxism.

[Anonymous No.12209483]

>>12207370
Wrong. Look up Gaddafi, not even going to expand since you people don't want to point fingers because you literally lack the courage and strength to do so. If it's nothing more than scapegoating then is Iran scapegoating? Did Gaddafi scapegoat? Is cuba scapegoating? Lol. Man you just solved geopolitics, but no; The fact you can't come up with a comprehensive and CONCRETE understanding of the world doesn't mean everyone actually naming those in power are wrong, it simply means you are a domesticated agent of civilization, too fragile to take the next step and name the elusive 'elite'. You're content waving your finger in a vague manner, freeing yourself of responsabilities. You're a faggot dude. Being "neutral" and "wise" is for faggots who know deep down they are too weak to impose their own will on the world.

[Anonymous No.12209495]

>>12209402
>He's not wrong but it also goes far beyond Marxism.

Did you read the article?

>One of the means employed by the occult forces to protect themselves consists of directing their opponents' attention toward those who are only partially responsible for certain upheavals, thus concealing the rest of the story, namely a wider sequence of causes. It could be shown that even if the Protocols were a forgery perpetrated by provocateurs, nonetheless they reflect ideas very congenial to the Law and spirit of Israel. Second, it is true that many Jews have been and still are among the promoters of modern disorder in its more radical cultural expressions, whether political or social. This, however, should not prevent a deeper analysis, capable of exposing forces that may have employed modern Judaism merely as an instrument. After all, despite the fact that many Jews are among the apostles of the main ideologies regarded by the Protocols as instruments of global subversion (i.e., liberalism, socialism, scientism, and rationalism), it is also evident that these ideas would have never arisen and triumphed without historical antecedents, such as the Reformation, Humanism, the naturalism and individualism of the Renaissance, and the philosophy of Descartes. Such phenomena cannot be attributed to Judaism, but rather point to a wider web of influences.

Evola nowhere tries to say it is "the Jews" or the Marxists, but points out to a much larger and cosmological dissolution of Law & Order itself.

4th estate will be 4th Industrial Revolution and the automatization that produces truly the infra-human existence we are already beginning to see.

[Anonymous No.12209603]

>>12209495
>4th estate will be 4th Industrial Revolution and the automatization that produces truly the infra-human existence we are already beginning to see.

[Anonymous No.12209645]

>>12207439
Gnosis by Mouravieff comes to mind. If you're interested, Gornahoor currently has a study group

https://www.gornahoor.net/?page_id=10193

[Anonymous No.12210865]

based and redpilled indeed

[Anonymous No.12211282]

>>12210865
based on what?

[Anonymous No.12211532]

>>12206762
>What exactly is Rene Guenon referring to here?
Generations of prideful/neurotic men can destroy oral knowledge that had been held for millennia. Cultural norms, wisdom, so on. We are once more in this process now, in fact. This forgetting can allow great breakthroughs, but it also destroys man to a degree. This is what Guenon refered to.

[Anonymous No.12211687]

>>12207149
Getting rid of the vultures won't revive a sunken beast, but I mean, good luck getting it back on its legs with a (((beak))) in its belly.

[Anonymous No.12212178]

>>12207149
Jews can't eat the next child of this civilization if they are not alive.