/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12191061]

Why have you not read my latest book: "Anti-Tech Revolution: The Why and How" yet?

You know I was right about everything.

[Anonymous No.12191831]

>>12191061
fair critiques but there is no solution. No point reading anything by him other than the manifesto

[Anonymous No.12191836]

>>12191831
there is always a solution. people just have to care more. Start organizing.

[Anonymous No.12191858]

>>12191061
Did he seriously write another book?

[Anonymous No.12191869]

>>12191836
yeah, we can't get 10 people in a room to agree on a subject however we will somehow organize a worldwide rejection/rebellion against the uncontrolled advance of technology. . .
very likely to happen. Just like Marx, brilliant critique, shit/non-existent solution

[Anonymous No.12191882]

>>12191061
Eh, Ellul was right about everything. Especially God being the only answer to this situation.

[Anonymous No.12191912]

Ted Kaczynski and the people who agree with him are all charlatans who don't know any more about the current social situation than the average Joe on the street, but like to act as if they do, because they invent terms no one besides them uses and refer to concepts no one besides them are concerned with. They conflate their convolutions with wisdom. They have no more insights to share than common people because their experiences are common.

[Anonymous No.12191920]

>>12191912
not an argument

[Anonymous No.12191966]

>>12191920
But that is an argument. You're a simple commoner who uses highfalutin language to appear more knowledgeable than you are.

[Anonymous No.12192025]

>>12191966
2 posts and not a single refutation of the works of kaczynski in sight

[Anonymous No.12192037]

>>12191912
>>12191966
The stark reality of kaczynski's work, particularly his parts on modern leftism, stir up tremendous rage and resentment in such weak and insecure people who can simply produce no logical rebuke to his comments. Example here

[Anonymous No.12192103]

>>12192025
>>12192037
Here's a repost of mine from a past thread, which got unsatisfactory responses and no convincing rebuttals. Pic related is a great example that showcases exactly what I am talking about. Here is what I wrote in reference to it:

>He undermines human nature in the first paragraph with his vain moralizing, aka "artificial goals" — there are no goals which are not visibly about satisfying our biological needs, even if the goal is to gain mastery over the field of marine biology. His concept of a "biological need" is arbitrarily defined by his own anti-philosophical convictions.

To which someone chimed in: "If Hirohito would suddenly stop doing marine biology he wouldn't starve or become homeless or ill." And my response was:

>Do you not have any concept at all of what passion does to a human? Have you never read poetry in your life? What do you even make of the Epic of Gilgamesh, when Enkidu dies, and Gilgamesh is so heart broken and becomes so full of fear of death that he pursues to the ends of the earth the plant that will grant him eternal life? Humans are more than just their stomachs, livers, and body temperatures. When you define our "biological needs" in such a way as to include only the most basic physical needs, you disregard SO MUCH that makes humans humans. Civilization was a natural occurrence and only vain moralism judges it otherwise.

Original thread:
>>/lit/thread/S12096766

[Anonymous No.12192169]

Goonan is like Ted K, except he has stronger insights and solutions and he isn't in prison as far as I know.

[Anonymous No.12192175]

>>12191882
brb reading Ellul

[Anonymous No.12192408]

Oh! Hello my friends! "Anti-Tech Revolution" is probably the greatest and most insightful piece of social theory since... well... wait.....
on second thought, it's the greatest OF ALL TIME!

[Anonymous No.12192418]

>>12191061
Cause it's not so simple to discern what's technè and what is not in the sphere of human behaviour.

[Anonymous No.12192422]

>>12192103
As someone who disagrees with you, I gotta give you credit. You're critique is thoughtful, respectful, and articulate.

[Anonymous No.12192428]

>>12192422
"your"

[Anonymous No.12192458]

>>12192103
>Do you not have any concept at all of what passion does to a human? Have you never read poetry in your life? What do you even make of the Epic of Gilgamesh, when Enkidu dies, and Gilgamesh is so heart broken and becomes so full of fear of death that he pursues to the ends of the earth the plant that will grant him eternal life? Humans are more than just their stomachs, livers, and body temperatures. When you define our "biological needs" in such a way as to include only the most basic physical needs, you disregard SO MUCH that makes humans humans. Civilization was a natural occurrence and only vain moralism judges it otherwise.

I think you're only talking about a specific kind of human. As Kaczynski himself has pointed out, there are individuals who have a far less powerful drive to experience the "power process" or who can more successfully sublimate their "power process" through surrogate activities. He is arguing that for the vast majority of people, surrogate activities like marine biology are not enough to make up for deprivation with respect to the power process, which is why their is so much anxiety, depression, and unhappiness.

Another point Kaczynski is making is that these "passionate" people you are alluding to, for example Hirohito, simply don;t know what they're missing. Kaczynski would argue that if you took them out of the laboratory or the concert hall and put them in a proper hunter-gatherer existence, after they had adjuster, they would come to realize that they were far more happy and fulfilled than they were before. They would realize that their real "passion" is to be at one with the wilderness.

[Anonymous No.12192471]

>>12192458
And what about you? What are YOU as individual gonna do about state of modern world? Are you gonna build a cabin in the woods and hunt down your food?

[Anonymous No.12192491]

>>12191869
It starts with one person. Then 5. Then 10. Then 100, and so on.

[Anonymous No.12192522]

>>12192471
That's a good question. I'd love to live by myself in the woods, but only to experience it, and capture the feeling of being totally wild. It's not a long-term solution for me individually, or anyone, though unfortunately.

The simply fact is at the rate the techno-industrial system is expanding, soon there may no longer be any truly wild places left. And, although I could probably live out and die in some far off place in some part of Alaska, what about posterity? What about future generations who will not have this ability? I could not live with myself knowing I was just selfishly running away from an ever growing monster.

No, the only solution is for a collapse of the technological system either spontaneously or through deliberate human action (i.e. revolution). Therefore, logic demands that a revolutionary movement dedicated to the collapse of techno-industrial society forms in case the spontaneous collapse does not come, or, if it comes, it comes too late and there is nothing left of humanity or the biosphere.

The first step in establishing a viable revolutionary movement dedicated to this aim is to spread anti-tech ideas as far and wide as possible. The vast majority of people will not be convinced by the ideas. But an effective revolutionary movement only needs a tiny minority of highly committed individuals.

[Anonymous No.12192523]

>>12192458
>As Kaczynski himself has pointed out, there are individuals who have a far less powerful drive to experience the "power process" or who can more successfully sublimate their "power process" through surrogate activities.
In my view, it is the other way around: it's Ted and the people who can't successfully sublimate their "power process" through modern social activities who have a far less powerful drive. Society has become increasingly abstract over the centuries, not decreasingly so; to be able to experience the "power process," per Ted's terms, shouldn't be getting easier then, but harder, by definition. Which means the ones who are calling modern social activities "surrogate activities" and are now anxious, depressed, and unhappy, are the ones who are not strong or intelligent enough to continue experiencing their own power. The problem is with Ted and these depressed types, not everyone else.

>They would realize that their real "passion" is to be at one with the wilderness.
This is highly delusional and untrue. A ton of people who are happy today are not even physically fit enough to experience joy in a hunter-gatherer society. Plus, you seem to think that our passions are 100% inborn and universal among our species. Nurture plays some role in the process of configuring an individual for certain passions, and there's variations between all individuals, genetically and psychologically speaking.

[Anonymous No.12192527]

>>12192491
this

[Anonymous No.12192536]

>>12191869
but you're leaving out the fact that Marxism shook the world. Russia fell to the Bolsheviks, when the Bolsheviks only numbered in the 1000s. Marxist revolutionaries failed the world over because they tried to create utopias. Anti-tech revolutionaries have no such pretensions. They simply want to destroy the current system. And destruction is far far easier than construction.

[Anonymous No.12192582]

>>12191061
I have it ruined my life. I quit my job as an rf engineer and went live in a commune for a year. Then I went thru a few years as a van living neet activist for the alt right. And now my mom is sick and about to lose the house and I cant get a job cause of my longterm unemployment and wasted my twenties doing jack shit and earning no money

[Anonymous No.12192593]

>>12192582
that sux dude. seppuku is the honorable way.

[Anonymous No.12192640]

>>12191836
you haven't read his work if you think this

go read

[Anonymous No.12192653]

>>12192640
Technology could benefit humanity if everyone saw its dangers like Ted does. Competition between countries, or competition in general, is the leading factor for the uneccessary and unregulated growth of technology. It can be controlled, but humans must be controlled, first.

[Anonymous No.12192675]

>>12192653
Impossible. People are addicted to technology, literally 99% of people can't get through day w/o checking their updates on phones. Can you imagine that those people will do if their goverment stopped technological progress for the sake of "freedom" and "dignity of humanity"? We are doomed, live in the wild cites while there are any, enjoy food/nature/sex, and forget about fate of humanity altogether. We are doomed.

[Anonymous No.12192722]

>>12192675
So pessimistic...

There exist certain timelines where everything goes smoothly. I imagine one to go something like this:
>country develops advanced genetic engineering
>create super IQ people to advance tech even more, especially in military technologies
>eliminate other countries in a large war
>reduce the population
>create one central hub of technology and research and hundreds of small, isolated villages of people with varying lifestyles, testing for the right balance between autonomy and technology to have fulfilling lives
>the city continues to advance technology while keeping in mind its dangers with religious adherence

[Anonymous No.12192731]

>>12192675
This. Going to have smart people with their smart phones and their smart television living in their smart home in a smart city using a smart grid which receives more smart technology from a smart drone checking their smart tablet. Plus the elites are planning to kill off 90% of the population eventually. It's over.

[Anonymous No.12192768]

>>12192675
You sound very close-minded. Being close-minded and pessimistic is a deadly combination.

Why is there nothing about modern society that you seem to enjoy? I'm inclined to believe that maybe you just aren't aware of much that's out there today.

[Anonymous No.12192816]

>>12191882
is there a text where Ellul gets into this?

[Anonymous No.12192871]

>>12192816
This book

[Anonymous No.12192889]

>>12192768
You are have ham on your eyes, you cannot see
You're the one who's close minded

[Anonymous No.12192987]

>>12191836
lol

[Anonymous No.12193004]

>>12191869
the marxian solution is organizing on a massive scale to take over the state
the kaczynskian solution is dropping out of the system and destroy its foundations
these are not the same thing

[Anonymous No.12193071]

>>12191831
>but there is no solution
What do you think the "Why and How" means?

[Anonymous No.12193107]

>>12193071
this

[Anonymous No.12193121]

>>12192889
I'm well aware of the good things we've lost over time. The one here who seems to lack awareness, i.e. is close-minded, is you, who is claiming that we're doomed and appearing to think that everything we have now is rotten and wrong.

[Anonymous No.12193280]

>>12193071
he never states the actual "how". All he is saying is that we must find the opposing ideology to technoindustrial values such as progress, but he coudn't even name name thing that revolutionary movement could use as the basis of their ideology. I mean look at the anarcho-primitivism, people know about this merely from memes. Everyone memes about it, noone in the right mind actually believes that such movement will ever succeed.

[Anonymous No.12193438]

>>12192582

Don't second guess yourself, find creative ways to stick to it. Your life is far from "ruined', you only need to rebuild your ideas of "ruined" and "success". I'm now in my 40s, with no income, no retirement, no "home", and yet I do not think of my life as "ruined". Get...creative...

[Anonymous No.12193455]

>>12193438
>retirement
It's such a meme. You work all your life for the system just for the mere hope of 5-10 years of 'free' life in the unforeseeable future. I mean look at the modern pensioners, they are fucking miserable. Rotten memory, fucked up life, no future, one leg already in the grave. Giving the fact that modern life is even more unfulfilling, todays people's retirement will be even more depressing and empty.

[Anonymous No.12193471]

>>12193455

Indeed, that's exactly the kind of thing I realized in my 20s and wished no part of it. Too many people have lived and died upon this ball flying through space in too many interesting ways to give into such a shitty narrow meme.

[Anonymous No.12194334]

>>12192816
Read his theological work, especially The Meaning of the City.

>I describe a world with no exit, convinced that God accompanies man throughout his history.

[Anonymous No.12194547]

>>12192722
The fallacy here is the elimination of competition. Just because there are no other nations to compete with you, doesn't mean the competition for power disappears. There will always be factions. What if I want more power in the city and recruit all the people from the villages with a promise for improved material conditions?

[Anonymous No.12194554]

Unabomber is the reason why STEMtards should be kept in tight cages and not allowed to think outside of their specific fields of autism

[Anonymous No.12194561]

>>12192722
>engineer the perfect technician,enact a totalitarian system, break down society, kill most of the population, devote all your time to furthering technology, try to find out how to perfectly sedate people

>everything goes smoothly

yikes, technique has gotten this one

[Anonymous No.12194704]

>>12192731
>Plus the elites are planning to kill off 90% of the population eventually. It's over.
more on this?

[Anonymous No.12194712]

>>12194704
They're gonna use the 5g networks to give us all cancer. Just ask /pol/

[Anonymous No.12194720]

>>12194712
but /pol/ is retarded

[Anonymous No.12194805]

>>12194704
When automation entirely replaces the need for an underclass of workers the elites will retreat to walled-off and fully automated cities and let the rest of the world starve.

[Anonymous No.12194808]

>>12194805
Pretty much this, the majority of people even now are economically completely irrelevant and the trend shows no signs of stopping. Why give gibs to billions when you can kill them.

[Anonymous No.12194823]

IM AFRAID OF ROBOTS WAAAAH
TECHNOLOGY MADE HUMANS INHUMAN WAAAH
NUKES ARE SCARY WAAAH
WOT IF SMARTPHONES CONTROL YOU AND NOT OTHERWISE WAAAH
I HAVE THE MINDSET OF A WORRIED HOUSEWIFE WHO JUST WATCHED BLACK MIRROR WAAH

[Anonymous No.12194829]

>>12194823
>implying any of that is irrational

[Anonymous No.12195197]

>>12191061
Does he royalties? If so, how well off is he in prison?

[Anonymous No.12195909]

>>12195197
He receives no renumeration from these books

[Anonymous No.12195930]

The inertia is too strong to stop whats coming

[Anonymous No.12195956]

We are mid jump onto eternity, there is no stopping, we either make it or we dont

[Anonymous No.12195964]

>>12194805
>>12194808
Who will buy the products made with automation?

[Anonymous No.12196501]

>>12192582
I find it unlikely considering the book came out in 2016, and the series of events you just described takes place over "your twenties"

[Anonymous No.12196531]

me take stick and hurt big computer

[Anonymous No.12196641]

The confusing part is that it seems like many of Ted's fans are Christian fundamentalists, which makes no sense, because technology can't just magically become at odds with God's plan at some point in history without pulling some shit out of your ass to try and justify why.

[Anonymous No.12196654]

Has this guy ever used the Internet?

[Anonymous No.12197487]

>>12196641
Technology never "became" at odds with God's plan, it has always been that way. Technology is satanic and it's not an ass-pull to say so

[Anonymous No.12197516]

My internet friends say loli is okay and I'll literally throw my corpse against your front door until it falls if fill your harddrive with boku no pico stills if you say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.12197524]

My internet friends say loli is okay and I'll literally throw my corpse against your front door until it falls if fill your harddrive with boku no pico stills if you say otherwise

[Anonymous No.12197531]

>>12191061
You weren't right about shit big boy. You went at it alone. That was your big mistake. You thought you could outsmart the resources and empires arrayed to oppose you.

Did you really think you were going to change things with a few stupid bombs!? That's comic book villain tier thinking and we know how that ends.

Look at you, posting from your snug little cell! ;^) do you love it in there with all your interesting and profound ideations?

[Anonymous No.12197543]

>>12191061
>>12191831
>>12191836

*presents a solution in your path*

Heh, nothin personnel...kid

[Anonymous No.12197555]

>>12197531
No one cared who he was until he packaged the bombs

[Anonymous No.12197561]

>>12197543
>thinks he's living life so correctly he has the right to correct the way other people live their lives
>doesn't understand why this makes him a condescending prick
>all while being a poster on 4chan

[Anonymous No.12197592]

>>12197487
So clothes are a form of technology, right? The first form of it in fact, according to the Bible?

How can Christian fundamentalists not see what a giant circlejerk such a philosophy is? "You've sinned since the beginning, and you MUST sin to survive this world, in which you were born against your control — that's why you need to love God and... donate to the church."

[Anonymous No.12197619]

>>12197592
>not see what a giant circlejerk such a philosophy is

Not sure what you meant by this.

>>12197592
>you MUST sin to survive this world

While it's inevitable that you'll sin, there are people in the Bible who were considered blameless despite this fact. I think it has something to do with malevolent intent measured on an individual basis and the fact that some people in the Bible actively did everything possible not to sin for love of their creator and his moral guideline.

>that's why you need to love God and... donate to the church."

It's more of a give what you have mentality than one of having to give.

[Anonymous No.12198007]

>>12197619
>While it's inevitable that you'll sin
According to the Bible, the sinning was done before we were even born. People have been entering the world for the past ~2M years at least, unable to live a life 100% "free" of the use of technology depending on where they were born due to societal pressures, and for the past ~50,000 or so, practically no one has entered the world "free" of it. And I wrap free in quotations because our relationship to technology being a form of slavery is a matter of perspective.

>It's more of a give what you have mentality
Sounds like a threat either way.