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/lit/ - Literature


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12179038 No.12179038 [Reply] [Original]

SCIENCE FANTASY EDITION
>How do you like your science fantasy, lite on science, lite on fantasy or both in equal parts?
>What are your favorite science fantasy books?

Monthly Reading for December: The Dying Earth by Jack Vance

Fantasy:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/0935e4cd59/105363.jpg
General:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21328.jpg
Flowchart:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21327.jpg

SCIENCE FICTION
https://imgoat.com/uploads/def184ad8f/124507.jpg
https://imgoat.com/uploads/b44928ae11/114401.jpg
General:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21332.jpg
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21330.jpg

NPR's Top 100 Science Fiction & Fantasy Books:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21333.jpg

SF&F author listing with ratings and summaries:
http://greatsfandf.com/authors-full-list.php

Previously:
>>12167034
>>12156092
>>12147776
>>12138143
>>12125422
>>12114837

>> No.12179045

>tfw just read the dying earth
I'm reading Cugel's Saga at the moment, hopefully there will be some discussion on that too.

>> No.12179046

>>12179024
>That doesn't make sense because then that changes the criteria for enjoyment that you rated those books
But that's completely normal. Your taste in books was the exact same when you had read 5 books as opposed to 500? Most people tend to heavily overrate stuff when they are new to a medium and become stricter as they consume more.

>> No.12179052
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12179052

>another one of my suggestions gets picked

>> No.12179055

How do I stop procrastinating and start writing my masters thesis?
All I can find the time to do is write short stories and read sffg.

>> No.12179058

>>12179038
oh shit, we finally have ourselves a decent monthly reading book after months of shit.

>> No.12179059

>>12179055
Hit your dick with a hammer every hour you find yourself procrastinating.

>> No.12179061

>>12179059
That just seems like another means of procrastination.

>> No.12179064

sanderfag a hack

>> No.12179065

>>12179061
Do you like hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer?

>> No.12179069

>>12179065
i can hit as hard as a hammer with my hand

>> No.12179073
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12179073

>>12179069
Use a fucking hammer or don't bother at all, scrungoid.

>> No.12179076

>>12179070
you probably haven't watched it, fag.

>> No.12179077

>>12179045
I couldn't stand Cugel honestly.

>> No.12179078

>>12179065
By no means, but hitting myself in the dick with a hammer would serve as a distraction to doing my thesis.
Should I check myself in?

>> No.12179080

>>12179046
I read LotR when I was 8, I can't remember what my taste in books was like when I'd only read five.

>> No.12179081
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12179081

>>12179078

>> No.12179082

>>12179055
You wouldn't be procrastinating if you wanted to write your master's thesis. Drop out and work at a gas station while finishing your YA SF epic.

>> No.12179094

>>12179082
I would rather get on the dole that get a service wagie job.

>> No.12179101

>>12179094
Virgin

>> No.12179108

>>12179077
>accepts job
>ruins your scale gathering business
nothing personal kid

>> No.12179112

>>12179101
You would be surprised how easy it is to pick up foriegners at university. I'm not a virgin, but I usually ruin my relationships within a week or two.

>> No.12179125

>>12179038
>The Dying Earth by Jack Vance
Hey the book I voted for won. I've been meaning to read this for awhile.

>>12179058
Night in Lonesome October was good. (But I didn't read any previous ones.)

>> No.12179242

>>12179038
>The Dying Earth by Jack Vance
None of us could avoid Chun the Unavoidable.

>> No.12179347

>>12179076
The time to grow up has long passed (d)weeb.

>> No.12179423

>>12179347
>trying to turn an insult-turned-description into an insult again

>> No.12179513

>>12179237
>He hopes for help from the crown. But King Jezal’s son, the feckless Prince Orso, is a man who specialises in disappointments.

>Savine dan Glokta – socialite, investor, and daughter of the most feared man in the Union – plans to claw her way to the top of the slag-heap of society by any means necessary. But the slums boil over with a rage that all the money in the world cannot control.
Abercrombie likes cucking Glokta is raising a cuckoo that's not his, and the king is pussy whipped. I wonder Savine will run into the prince and give him some of that secret incest sister pussy?
I don't care enough to read anything else Abercrombie. He burnt me on the first trilogy he wrote. Only Glokta was an interesting character. Logan and the pink lover were shit. I tried his standalones but didn't enjoy them. Dropped Abercrombie years ago and I'm not going back.

>> No.12179521

>I got warned because I "replied" to the panty and bra spamming anon
........

>> No.12179525

>>12179513
Dogman was best boy

>> No.12179529

>>12179521
why don't they just ban him for off topic posting or avatar fagging

>> No.12179543

>>12179521
Maybe 4chan would be a site for your type.

>> No.12179544

>>12179521
good, stop being so easily distracted by harlots anon.
>>12179529
They probably did.

>> No.12179549

>>12179529
He’s holding their gfs hostage.

>> No.12179596

>>12179038
>>12179045

Fuck yes, I just got done reading it too. Cugel's saga is good but a bit predictable in that you always know he will fuck everything up but get away with it. It seems to me Cugel is Liane the Wayfarer 2.0 who actually gets away with his shit.

It's also interesting comparing The Dying Earth with extant 2nd - 3.5 D&D published campaigns and lore. I know that Vecna was named after (anagram of) Vance and Vance gave the idea for spell slots and spells per day but holy shit does 3 ed and 3,5 make so much sense if you imagine it as a prequel to Dying Earth set a few millenia before.

>> No.12179603

Any HG wells fans in da house?

>> No.12179611

>>12179596
>It seems to me Cugel is Liane the Wayfarer 2.0 who actually gets away with his shit.
The best part of Liane was that he didn't.

>> No.12179657
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12179657

>>12179603
Time Machine? More like The Night Land. Island of Dr. Moreau? More like House on the Borderland. War of the Worlds? More like Ghost Pirates. Get styled on, limey

>> No.12179660
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12179660

I tried to fit the finish date and next vote period in between christmas and the new year since I expect to be busy read drunk and unable to post on those two occasions. Also the book is quite short.

>> No.12179755

>>12179423
Greentexting won't help your balls drop (d)weeb.

>> No.12179758 [DELETED] 
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12179758

>>12179544
Damn harlots.

>> No.12179778

>>12179611

I am Chun the Unavoidable.

>> No.12179789

>>12179778
Curse my pretty eyes.

>> No.12179951

Why was Chun so Unavoidable?

>> No.12179960

>>12179951
I asked Liane the Wanderer to find out for me but I haven't heard back from him.

>> No.12179964
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12179964

Opinion of this /sffg/?

>> No.12179966
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12179966

>>12179964

>> No.12179968
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12179968

>>12179038
How do monthly readings work? Is there a schedule?

>> No.12179972

>>12179968
see
>>12179660

>> No.12179982

>>12179972
Thanks anon, first one I'm gonna do

>> No.12179989

>>12179966
please do not let tumblreads skew your view of the book, it's great.

>> No.12180001
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12180001

>>12179951

You know what's great about The Dying Earth? There is no answer, only the "oh shit" moment in the story he appears in to make you wonder. There is no "lore" to drown in in that collection, only mystery.

Giving an answer would dilute that massively and make it a vastly inferior work. When I look at contemporary writing riffing on classic fantasy it's disappointing.

Take Brandon Sanderson, if he wrote Liane the Wayfarer most likely he would tell a fan asking your question "RAFO" and explain in detail what happened in his next book. Or the story would be part of an 800 word long text with at least three to seven short chapters of essentially exposition about the magics of the land and how this was possible.

This is also a problem in videogame writing: take Pillars of Eternity, where lots of conversations are about how souls circulate, the ins and outs of animancy, what the gods are like - and this on top of endless books you can read which are mostly dry and academic. "Lore" mostly translates to boring infodump.

Compared to that, "I am Chun the Unavoidable" is genius. Revealing how these things work never improves them.

>> No.12180005

>>12180001

800 page* long text and missed quints by one, God fucking damn it.

>> No.12180007
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12180007

Man this was a fucking ride. I'm not even sure what that ending was. Were they just fucking with him the entire time? Why were they trying to kill him after that ruse?

Really loved the book up until that point though. Really solid imagery and comical portrayal of the Soviet union. Really tugged on my heart when the rocket stages detached

>> No.12180044

>>12180001
There's definitely ways to abuse this, but I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. Take this passage from King of Elfland's Daughter:
>Nobody can tell you about that sword all that there is to be told of it; for those that know of those paths of Space on which its metals once floated, till Earth caught them one by one as she sailed past on her orbit, have little time to waste on such things as magic, and so cannot tell you how the sword was made, and those who know whence poetry is, and the need that man has for song, or know any one of the fifty branches of magic, have little time to waste on such things as science, and so cannot tell you whence its ingredients came.
Dunsany is acknowledging that while the components of fantasy are knowable, the whole of it is not, and that's where the fun is, knowing your well is inexhaustible.

>> No.12180049

any books on ai mind prisons?

>> No.12180055

>>12180049
Quantum Thief

>> No.12180092

>>12180044

Nothing more to add here except I love that you picked Dunsany as your example.

>> No.12180233

In 1119 A.D., a group of nine crusaders became known as the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon–a militant monastic order charged with protecting pilgrims and caravans traveling on the roads to and from the Holy Land. In time, the Knights Templar would grow in power and, ultimately, be laid low. But a small offshoot of the Templars endure and have returned to the order’s original mission: to defend the roads of the world and guard those who travel on them.

Theirs is a secret line of knights: truckers, bikers, taxi hacks, state troopers, bus drivers, RV gypsies — any of the folks who live and work on the asphalt arteries of America. They call themselves the Brotherhood of the Wheel.

Jimmy Aussapile is one such knight. He’s driving a big rig down South when a promise to a ghostly hitchhiker sets him on a quest to find out the terrible truth behind a string of children gone missing all across the country. The road leads him to Lovina Hewitt, a skeptical Louisiana State Police investigator working the same case and, eventually, to a forgotten town that’s not on any map — and to the secret behind the eerie Black-Eyed Kids said to prowl the highways.


That premise is so ridiculous I almost want to read it. Almost.

>> No.12180236

How should one write a sex scene without going full erotica? Should I just imply it or start the scene and then fade to black before anything explicit happens?

>> No.12180244

>>12180236
Keep it as non-graphic as possible. You don't have to cut away from it, but you don't have to go full romance novel porn either.

>> No.12180376

>>12180236
Is the scene even necessary without being implied? If a female character stays over at a male characters house for the night, and the next morning they are having breakfast together with muddled hair, it can be pretty obviously implied they fucked.
Is the sex scene itself the important issue, or is it the fact that they are having sex that is important?
What is it you're trying to portray exactly? Is it the development of their relationship? Is it an emotional high? Is it a random hookup to show a character's meaningless existence?

>> No.12180463

>>12180236
Keep it implicit.

>> No.12180471

>>12180376
Well it's more of a rape than it is a regular sex scene. I just want to sort of focus on some kind of perspective from one of the characters since it's going to have pretty significant effects on both characters later on in their story arcs. Also to add context the female is the one forcing herself on the guy.

>> No.12180496

>>12180471
Robert Jordan unironically did a good job with this.

>> No.12180578

>>12179657
Based and maidpilled.

>> No.12180596

>>12180471
sounds hot

>> No.12180625

>>12179966
Fuck,i was following that guy,i thought he had good taste

>> No.12180686

>>12180001
>>12180044
Absolutely Based and Patricianpilled

>> No.12180937
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12180937

Considering rereading the serie in pic related to see how it holds up after 15 years.
It was my favorite serie as a child, had the entire collection up until the point I grew out of it. Should I now read them in publishing order (as I usually do for series) or chronological order?
Also I'll be reading them untranslated this time. I remember the moles had a silly patois in my translation. Will this give me trouble in original version?

>> No.12180989
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12180989

>Daniel Black Thrall
>tfw the author secretly used the open discussion thread on his blog as a resource mining brainstorm group and the readers don't even realize

>> No.12181003

>>12180989
What’d he steal? He didn’t do anything particularly creative this book. Or particularly lewd. I feel like this is becoming tamer and tamer

>> No.12181024

>>12181003
He didn't steal shit. He just mined ideas. I think he burnt out on Daniel Black. His space marine loli got more sales (he said so), but his readers (aka patreon) wants Daniel Black. So he has to bite into the bitter fruit and swallow.

I hope Daniel Black 5 is next year.

>> No.12181033

mobilism down for anyone else? just when i finally found something i felt i could read...

>> No.12181073

Damn, sad to see Bridge of Birds get so few votes, but I'm down for Vance. I'll nominate something else next time, would encourage people to give it a chance though.

>> No.12181316

>>12180989
Is this shit worth a read? I hear it has some cuckshit in it.

>> No.12181390
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12181390

>worldbuilding for my fantasy heartbreaker is going great
>plot is writing itself
>compelling villains and side characters feel organic and interesting
>no fucking clue what to do with the main characters
anyone else know this feel

>> No.12181412

>tfw you open a book to the copyright page as is customary and "First Edition" is spelled with 4 i's.

>> No.12181502

>>12180937
I attempted to read this series all the way through, by book no. 8 it started to become excruciating and formulaic. As to the patois, I don't remember it being difficult to read but I'm an english native, so that might not mean anything

>> No.12181534

>>12181073
that was my 2nd choice but i've been meaning to read vance for awhile. i'm trying to brush up on the classics so he got my vote.

>> No.12181549

>>12181502
>formulaic

they're books for children.

>> No.12181576

>>12181024
Yea his space slut sold really well, but it was a boring read. What a shame. The guy who writes Daniel Faust is in the same situation, where his female leads all outsell his male leads.

>> No.12181704
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12181704

is Watership Down a children's book?

>> No.12181705

>>12181316
Magical cuck shit. You could say she raped him and she got magically drugged by his granny to get raped.
>afraid to read any book where someone gets cheated on
>doesn't know his girlfriend already cheated on him at least once
You guys are funny. You are afraid to read about cheating, but you've been cucked already.

>> No.12181715

>>12181576
Maybe it's a curse, where your male POV character sells less if his name is Daniel?

>> No.12181736

>>12180937
>I remember the moles had a silly patois in my translation. Will this give me trouble in original version?
They are extremely silly in English as well.

>> No.12181742

>>12181390
Pretty normal actually. Maybe you should make someone else the main.

>> No.12181832

>>12180496
in what instance?

>> No.12181842

>>12181704
Yes, but that does not mean adults can or should not read and enjoy it.

>> No.12181874
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12181874

Neoquest II was a good science-fantasy game with a surprising mindfuck.

I am currently reading All of an Instant and it is finally picking up but I feel the pacing drags on a bit.

What sci-fant books do a good job of harboring the border between with a twist (e.g., ancient ruins is actually a spaceship, etc.)

>> No.12181906

>>12181742
No that's the thing, I don't have one at all. The setting is alien enough that I would like to use a Marco Polo type to give context, but nothing I've come up with feels as compelling. I normally hate the 'straight man' stooge trope and I think that's a big part of it.
I want the main to be as compelling as everything else I have.

>> No.12182054
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12182054

Did he seriously just conclude a story with "and then they went home."?

What the fuck?

At least it was way better than Ready Player One, I guess.

>> No.12182079

>>12182054
Stephenson just sucks with endings for some reason.

>> No.12182107

>>12182054
sounds like the sff version of chinese kung fu movies

no idea how to end it, so just roll credits right after the last bad guy gets killed

>> No.12182109

>>12181704
It's from a different era and more like older YA by today's classifications. It's long and slow at times.

>>12182054
I have the feeling he writes up until deadline and then says "fuck it, the end"

>> No.12182137

>>12180989
I wish I had a hoard of devoted readers giving me well thought out ideas that would fit snuggly and coherently into my story.

>> No.12182153
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12182153

Just finished Blindsight because some anon has been spamming that fucking series here for monhts. It was fantastic, thank you based anon for shilling it. I'll read the Culture series after I finish the rest of this one.

I wouldn't have expected vampires to work in a sci fi book but I thought they did. Also really liked in the afterword where he cited the articles that gave him most of his ideas. Perhaps some of the philosophy of conciousness stuff was a tad reddit at times but on the whole i loved the book tbqh.

did Sarasti actually rape Siri? Siri uses the word rape later but when hes describing what happened he doesnt seem to mention it. Why do super intelligent beings like using rape as a weapons? I remember Kelhus in Unholy Consult did the same thing.

>> No.12182160

>>12181316
everything has cuck shit in it anon. unless your girl was a virgin that you raised from birth yourself on a desert island then you've been cucked before. if you don't have your girl under house arrest she is cucking you. even when you do she might still cuck you.

avoiding books just because it may contain cucking is the most stupidest shit i ever heard. not reading about it doesn't make it not happen. any book with a love triangle is cucking.

>> No.12182199
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12182199

>>12182160
>unless your girl was a virgin that you raised from birth yourself on a desert island then you've been cucked before.

>ywn

>> No.12182232

>>12182054

Snow Crash, I heard so much about this book that I decided to pick it up but unfortunately it's the only book I've been unable to finish.

It's almost as if it was written by my 12 year old self, having eaten too many skittles and drank too much coca cola. I hated everything about it and haven't been able to pick up a sci-fi book since. Any recommendations?

>> No.12182238

>>12181906
Make him a man from Mars but not one of our contemporaries. He's from a place as alien to them as they are to us, maybe he has a secret mission. We get clues about his origin from the questions he asks.

>> No.12182242

>>12182079
Anathem had a decent ending, Baroque Cycle and the first part of Seveneves had fantastic endings.

>> No.12182244
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12182244

>> No.12182254

>>12182244
>he doesn't know the pleasure of trading a shrill daughter for a chill son-in-law

>> No.12182306

>>12182244
This >implies anyone with this mindset would actually get laid and reproduce offspring

>> No.12182382

>>12182153
Because it’s psyche shattering. At least that’s why kellhus did it.

>> No.12182413

>>12182238
It's fantasy but I get your point. I'm just thinking out loud, I'll figure it out eventually.
I've thought about a spy, group of undercover agents, diplomat, and more mundane things like traveling merchants or even literally an explorer.

>> No.12182420

>>12182413
"man from mars" is a literary term meaning a character unfamiliar with the setting

>> No.12182438

>>12182420
killer. same.

>> No.12182460

>>12179525
Nicomo Cosca 4 lyfe, nigga.

>> No.12182482

>>12179055
Alternate between writing as much as you can (don't worry about quality at first) and re-reading and editing what already wrote. Your bare minimum should be writing a self-assigned amount (e.g., 2 pages) on any topic every single day. After a while you will find that it's easier to conceptualize your thoughts in written form and then it's all down hill from there.

>> No.12182536

>>12180007
>Were they just fucking with him the entire time?
The story is entirely absurd and quite disconnected from reality. Did you miss the part where air force cadets have their legs chopped off to teach "heroism" (see Alexey Maresyev) because there is no money to buy fighter planes?

If you want a slightly longer Odyssey into Soviet/Post-Soviet life, try "Chapaev and the Void" - it's probably Pelevin's best work. If you are not Russian, do some background reading on Chapaev (especially the pop culture-related stuff).

>> No.12182543

>>12182244
t. never had children

>> No.12182549

>>12182153
Sarasti/The Captain's tirade shook Siri to his core. It shattered all the little rules and systems he'd set up in his brain over the years in order to fit in to normal human society. That's pretty mind-rapey.

>> No.12182674

>>12180937
its formulaic as fuck. id say read up to marlfox and youll be good
>>12181704
weird, just started this. if it is, its a really fucking good children's book

>> No.12183105
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12183105

how do i stop being a brainlet and be able to asses books on a deeper level

>> No.12183118

>>12183105
It's not worth it.
Just enjoy reading.

>> No.12183124

>>12183105
Buy a study guide for some book you already read so you can get an idea of what people look for when analyzing books. Then when reading future books think about things like repeated images, character parallels/contrasts, elements of structure, etc. Then once you've done that for a book yourself (as much as you can), read other people's analyses about that book to see what they thought and how it's different from yours. Continue onward.

>> No.12183133

>>12179038
I just finished Red Sister & Grey Sister by Mark Lawerence, what should I read while I'm waiting for the final book?

>> No.12183135

So what are everyone's thoughts on Brandon Sanderson? Do we like him because he makes fun light fantasy? or are we contrarians who cant stand that he is more or less well received?

>> No.12183137

>>12179521
it's ok, remember they do it for no monetary compensation

>> No.12183139

>>12183133
something good

>> No.12183156

>>12183139
Any recommendations there bozo?

>> No.12183168

>>12183156
prince of nothing

>> No.12183191

>>12183135
He makes fun books with interesting worlds,magic, and fight scenes. His characters are average, his dialogue can get pretty bad, and his writing in general is usually bland.

>> No.12183208

>>12183191
His books are classified as adult fiction but honestly it feels a bit like YA. I'm getting a few throne of glass flashbacks in regard to his prose

>> No.12183240

I have the Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu and Arthur C Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama. Which should I read first?

>> No.12183247

>>12183240
Read 3BP and gently place Rama in the trash.

>> No.12183300

>>12179660
Where's a PDF link for this?

>> No.12183328

>>12183300
Check the sites in the sticky. I found it there a while back.

>> No.12183440

Friend said there was a good sci fi series discussed here alot, but I don't know the name and they are out it starts with fire I think

>> No.12183443

>>12179038
I just bought complete earthsea saga illustrated edition. Don't know much, about a child wizard or something. Anyway it should be a fun read around Christmas.

>> No.12183548

>>12183208
lmao how could anyone find anything "adult" about sanderhacks writing. Hes a weird ass mormon he doesnt even swear (and its super cringy when he makes up swears like stormin).

>>12183135
Writes anime action scenes which can be fun, I usually enjoy his worlds decently, however as the guy above me said his prose and characters are bland to the point of being repulsive (for me). I've read a few of his books and probably wont ever read any more because I don't really enjoy them. He's like the JJ abrams of fantasy. He has lots of popular appeal and commercial success but hes a hack and disliking him is a sign of good taste.

>> No.12183552

>>12183440
a fire upon the deep?

>> No.12183556
File: 43 KB, 373x521, OEQwEv3NvODM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12183556

>>12179038
tfw you want to get back into reading, and this book looks like it could be the spark, but all (and I mean ALL) of the libraries within a 50 mile radius of me are too rinky-dink to carry this.
I'd have to travel +30 miles one-way just find a library that carried anything by Vance.

>> No.12183557

>>12183300
Go to libgen.pw. Its the best site hands down in my opinion for finding books. The book in question is available there too

>> No.12183624

when people praise Dying Earth and list it as a must-read do they mean the first one or the whole series

>> No.12183678

Is Jack Vance's Lyonesse series any good? I've always liked the cover.

>> No.12183695

>>12180236
Implicit erotica, like implicit profanity, is the most effective. P.G. Wodehouse has Bertie's Aunt Dahlia let loose a "rich hunting field expletive" rather than being specific, which allows the reader to take over and help the author out by doing some of the work for him, as 'twere...

>> No.12183708

>>12183556
you can probably order the book through the library system and it will come to the nearest one to you.

>>12183443
Wizard of Earthsea is an excellent book.

>> No.12183712

I can't decide if I should get Six of Crows with its sequel, or the two Traitor Baru Masquerade books by Seth Dickinson. Help

>> No.12183744
File: 30 KB, 375x266, Earthsea_Trilogy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12183744

>>12183443
Great trilogy, but everything after the first three books (and The Wind's 12 Quarters) is basically feminist propaganda. The change in mood is palpable, from mythic to didactic, to the detriment of the writing sad to say...

>> No.12183745

>>12181534
Yeah, Vance is a great choice. I've not read Dying Earth, so I'll be jumping on board this month too. Wonder if there are any decent Christmas themed books for next month...probably not.

>> No.12183754

>>12183624
They probably mean the entire series.

>> No.12183758

>>12183678
It is good, but different from his Dying Earth stuff.

>> No.12183817

>>12182153
>for monhts
More like years. It's been shilled since before I arrived.

>> No.12183856

>>12183745
A lonesome night in December

>> No.12183874

>>12183135
His books are generally average as fuck and while I have nothing really against him it's a little jarring to see him praised as the pinnacle of fantasy writing.

>> No.12183885

>>12183443
I also ordered it recently, I've already read the first book so I know that at least part of it will be good.

>> No.12183889

>>12183556
Jack Vance is dead, just pirate the book.

>>12183624
Generally the whole series but everyone does not love every part. I found the wizards mostly annoying for example.

>> No.12183960

>>12183135
Better than Robert Jordan.

>> No.12184111

>>12182242
Anathem had a surprisingly good resolution, but everything on the spaceship felt surprisingly rushed and unexplained, compared to the incredibly slow and detailed pace of the rest of the book.

>> No.12184129

>>12183135

I've only read Warbreaker but it was bubblegum. His characters weren't well developed and the dialogue between Blushweaver and Lightsong was awful.

Lightsong himself came across as a teenager's idea of a comic character with depth and still was the most fleshed out character in the book. I'm hard pressed to tell you what Siri or Vivienna are actually like, and Vasher was an anime character.

The book as a whole should have been 1/3 the length or a 1200 page four book cycle. The last few chapters came to a screeching halt that, whilst not exactly deus ex machina, hinged on the logos of his magic and coincidences a lot to the point where it is unsatisfying.

For an apparently labyrinthine intrigue story, the actual bad guys weren't introduced in nearly enough detail nor were nearly enough hints dropped about them. It feels like they come from nowhere, and given the sheer length of the book it's astounding that he didn't find room to do that.

He's by no means awful but praising him and calling hm a favourite would make me question your taste.

>> No.12184218

>>12183678
It will be a boring slugfest in the first 200-300 pages, but after that it becomes excellent.

>> No.12184227

>>12183135
He's like the Kyoani of fantasy authors, pretty good but extremely overrated

>> No.12184435

>>12182232
>Any recommendations?
Yes, dont read Anathem

>> No.12184622

>>12181704
It's a good book to read to your kids.
Same with plague dogs.
Once they reach the depths of misery, the only direction is up up up

>> No.12184710

>>12180001
But dying earth is shit.
Fuck off.

>> No.12184779

>>12182543
D-did you raise your daughter for yourself?

>> No.12184799

>>12183712
Reading a book by a man who likes to put his dick in his son.

>> No.12184803

>>12183135
Never read one of his books, I've flicked through them a few times and the writing (especially dialogue) is just so infantile. Not for me.

>> No.12184820

Who’s less shit Sanderson or Erickson?

>> No.12184848

>>12184820
Erikson. Sanderson is a trap for beginner level readers. They get sucked into his anime styled magic systems and think that's all there is to fantasy.

>> No.12184911
File: 66 KB, 853x543, Sanderson Spurdo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12184911

>>12184848
You seem upset.

>> No.12184977

>>12184911
It's not my fault you think Mistborn is the greatest book of this generation anon.

>> No.12185195
File: 45 KB, 853x543, 1505953233396.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12185195

>>12184977
Where did I say that anon? I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that you are upset.

>> No.12185202

>>12184710

Why is it shit?

>> No.12185236

>>12185202
The same reason everyone else in this general call something shit. I did not like it. The writing and logic was too stupid for me to enjoy. If you like ass pull magics and limited spell slots in your brain, then more power to you. I just wish I didn't fall for the meme years ago.

>> No.12185270

>>12184779
No, for herself dummy

>> No.12185306

How do I start with Fredrik Pohl?

>> No.12185315

How is Otherland /sffg/?

>> No.12185324

>>12185195
>The Six Duchies ain't free. The shores of Rippon and Shoaks gotta be littered with the blood of Red Ship raiders. Regal aka "The Pretender" is not my kign. he is an inlander weakling and a traitor as well :D:D Burrich and Molly, not Galen and Serene ok. praise the Elderlings.
Is this good enough for me to start drawing a FitzSpurdo?

>> No.12185388
File: 36 KB, 288x462, 287861.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12185388

i just watched the movie, it was somewhat good not very good but still fun and enjoyable
how is the book?

>> No.12185407

>>12185315
Otherland is great. The first book is the weakest of the four but once it takes off, its very memorable. Lots of great moments. Two new otherland novellas coming out soon too

>> No.12185415

>>12184622
How's Traveller?

>> No.12185417

>>12182536
Yeah I suppose it was pretty absurb start to finish, so I guess I could have seen it coming. Took me a while to process the ending, but great read. The leg scene cracked me up almost as much as them not even giving them good space suits and instead just some plugs.

I'll check it out, sounds pretty good. What kind of research do you recommend in particular? Also looking to check out Generation P, since it sounds like a really interesting post-soviet life work.

>> No.12185498

>>12184710
t. Throne of Glass shill

>> No.12185533

>tfw old paperbacks so dry you wake up with all the skin peeling off thumbs

>> No.12185538

Just downloaded my first wuxia epub, I'm diving in boys, wish me luck.

>> No.12185579
File: 130 KB, 743x288, throne-of-glass-series-banner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12185579

>reading Wuxia and litrpg
>when you can read something great instead
I pity you.

>> No.12185600

>>12185533
>tfw I have a real mans job so my thumbs are tough as nails

>> No.12185686

>>12183247
Is Rama bad? I see it recommended everywhere.

>> No.12185705

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji4vg7CENgg

>> No.12185722

>>12185579
Does she pay you to shill for her? Or do you do it for free?

>> No.12185761

>>12181704
It is if children read it, and it is an adult book for adults. I read it as a child and enjoyed it immensely, and I would read it today as an adult with equal enjoyment.

>> No.12185762

>>12185705
>tfw no qt Rothfuss loving bf

>> No.12185794

>>12185686
Don't listen to anon, Rama is fine. Just don't read the "sequels".

>> No.12185973

>>12185270
>i raised my daughter so she don't need no man
Someone is still turning your daughter into a slam piggy at night, anon.

>> No.12185978

>>12185306
By calling advertising agencies and booking slots.

>> No.12186033

>>12185324
Go ahead. More spurdos the better.
I did a lightbringer, red rising and malazan (i asked for words for the malazan and red rising ones).

>> No.12186051

>>12186033
Is there a BotNS one?

>> No.12186055

>>12182160
Sounds like the rationalization of a true cuck.

>> No.12186260

>>12186051
I know theres a wojak edit of severian,not sure if there's a spurdo

>> No.12186487
File: 164 KB, 1023x632, 'Housoun'_concept_art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12186487

Any African themed fantasy that doesn't involve references to modern politics, slavery and white devils colonizing poor brown people? I only know of GW Nightfall that's absent of these and I'd like to read some books too.

>> No.12186490

>>12186055 Read >>12182244

You are the master cuck.
That's why Indians and Chinks throw away their girls.
That's why all wuxia have girls getting raped and chad chinaman taking your girls.

>> No.12186496
File: 235 KB, 1000x563, apocalypse-now-now.jpg?w=1000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12186496

>>12186487
Kinda crappy

>> No.12186611

What are some books where the MC uses psychological torture to defeat the big bad?

>> No.12186615

>>12186051
Yes there is

>> No.12186631

>>12186611
>What are some books where the MC uses psychological torture to defeat the big bad?
Define psychological torture. If you mean the MC being a mind reading wizard that defeats the BG through author fiat, largely because the author is a moron that thinks that smart=wizard, then there is so many that there is no point in listing them.

>> No.12186642

>>12186631
netori

>> No.12186724

>>12179038
Can anyone suggest a book for someone who loves rendezvous with rama? Or several.

>> No.12186812
File: 37 KB, 853x625, 1492420833072.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12186812

>>12183440
firefall, aka blindsight
>>12186051

>> No.12186824

>>12182244
>he doesn't have non-consensual sex with his daughter
kek

>> No.12186887

>>12186611
Eragon lmao

>> No.12186912

>>12186824
You are a fine connoisseur of GRI I see.

>> No.12186988

Is there YA you've read as an adult and enjoyed?

>> No.12187000

>>12183135
His writing, characters and dialogue are way too bad to read about.

>> No.12187051

>>12183440
song of fire
and ice

>> No.12187060

>>12186988
Bartimaeus

>> No.12187082

I don't know what the fuck is going on in these first few pages of Lord of Light. Did I get memed?

>> No.12187086

>>12179038
Lite on fantasy.

>> No.12187094

>>12183960
incorrect

>> No.12187096

>>12186988
I liked Sabriel when I read it again for the first time in ten years.

>> No.12187097

>>12186812
>>12185195
>>12184911
where did this meme come from?

>> No.12187104

>>12187097
Thomas Jefferson

>> No.12187178

>>12186487
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaro

>> No.12187236
File: 198 KB, 719x538, 1524111181315.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12187236

>>12186611
>tfw cant get into ward

FUCK THERAPY FUCK VICTORIA AKA BITCHTORIA AAAAAA FUCK ALL THE DISCOUNT UNDERSIDERS

>> No.12187263
File: 167 KB, 1024x768, 1489937573449.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12187263

>>12187097
From all over

>> No.12187275
File: 200 KB, 1024x768, 1486394206605.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12187275

>>12187097

>> No.12187292

What do we think of Tim Powers? His books have some pretty fresh premises and settings, unlike most fantasy.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/209693.The_Drawing_of_the_Dark

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/209690.Last_Call

>> No.12187299
File: 156 KB, 1024x768, Red Rising Spurdo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12187299

>>12187097
This is the last one.

>> No.12187420

>>12187299
I'm gonna try to make a Paul Atreides one

>> No.12187433

>>12187097
People mocking americans. The original is the "freedom ain't free" one.

>> No.12187445
File: 47 KB, 680x433, 8b2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12187445

>>12187097
>>12187433
The original.

>> No.12187463

>>12185236

Cringe.

>> No.12187468

>>12186988
Howl's Moving Castle
Bartimaeus Trilogy
The Bear and the Nightingale
Coraline

Not sure if the last two actually count as YA.

>> No.12187483

>>12182153
>It was fantastic
You should probably just drink bleach you lowniq cretin

>> No.12187555

>>12187463
>Cringe
>redditte spacing
>yikes!

>> No.12187617

/sffg/, do you think any great fantasy book needs a main villain?

I'm realizing mine is kind of tacked-on and I can't decide whether to scrap him or to integrate him deeper into the plot in a way that I'm not entirely sure makes sense

>>12187468
coraline counts as childrens

>> No.12187653

>>12187617
There definitely needs to be an antagonist, but they don't necessarily have to be a main villain. A few off the top of my head...
>A hostile network of agents working against the characters
>A faceless organisation manipulating events
>A force of nature
>A revolving cast of antagonists who oppose the characters at different stages on the journey

>> No.12187654

>>12187082
Just roll with it, it'll all make sense. Most of the book is a flashback that explains how they got there, why Tak is an ape, etc

>> No.12187710

I'm reading The Forever War, not too sure about this homosexual guy explaining what earth is gonna be like

>> No.12187716

>>12187653
The way I had it planned out, I was going to do that last one with the main villain following them on the sidelines until the final act when shit goes down and he finally takes action. However, he isn't really necessary as he ultimately only serves as a catalyst for the love interest's death or redemption (which is still up in the air)

The thing is though, I could integrate him deeper. My MC would probably be reluctant to interact with a major character, and this guy has both the means and the reason to pay the MC to keep tabs on him, but this raises the question "what is the villain doing while the MC is spying for him?"

I could just as easily make the answe to that question "nothing" or "following along in the shadows" but neither of those answers sit right by me and this magical realism story is starting to become a spy thriller.

I'm not My Neighbor Guillermo Del Totoro anon. I don't even fish dicks (which probably means I'm not Kanye or Troy McClure either but I digress)

>> No.12187727

>>12187710
it's even worse

>> No.12187751

>>12187617
See >>12187653
You need an antagonist in the strictest sense that your hero needs to face opposition, or there's no story, no character growth, no nothing that makes fiction worthwile. But it doesn't have to be incarnated in a BBEG.
One of my all-time favorite fantasy books is a book of that kind. Sadly it's untranslated to english so I can't refer you to it.

>> No.12187768

>>12187716
Well, what does the villain do in the world? If you're looking for things for him to do while the MC is having his story, you'll probably find your answer there.
Farmers have crops to tend, merchants have trades to conduct and money to manage, gentry have business of their own to keep them busy. No one should ever have "nothing" to do. Even if your villain has a very mundane job in a magical world, he's still got to go do it while keeping tabs on the MC. Maybe he pays people to spy on the MC, or takes time out from his day job to catch up on the MC's doings.

>> No.12187809

>>12187768
he's an intelligence agent who's tracking and investigating a character the MC travels with. The reason he would have picked the MC to spy for him is because he's young enough to not provoke any suspicion

>> No.12187951
File: 38 KB, 910x626, Night Land Bear.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12187951

I'm a bit late to the American bear memes but I spent 8 million years in paint on this.

>> No.12187988

>>12187951
you shouldn’t have

>> No.12188049

>>12187710
It's an allegory for culture shock. The sodomy is supposed to disturb you.

>> No.12188051

Anybody know of any good space fantasy?
>inb4 HURR DURR HAVE YOU HEARD OF STAR WARS
something that isn't quite sci-fi prefferably. or even something similar to Dune I'll take since it has a heavy emphasis on religion.

>> No.12188096
File: 40 KB, 447x599, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12188096

>tfw reading The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian with Lord Wind playing in the background

>> No.12188147

>>12182054
>way better than Ready Player One
Unfortunately, its only marginally better.

>> No.12188198

>>12181390
if the world and other characters are interesting enough you could just have the main as an everyman observing how shit goes down

>> No.12188243

>>12188051
Hyperion by Dan Simmons.

>> No.12188369

i just discovered you can upload epubs to google play book
it's pretty neat

>> No.12188517
File: 55 KB, 426x640, e037e39fa11edef024edd05a9bc489d3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12188517

>>12179055
Seriously: find books in your university by a guy called Robert Boice, a specialist in writer's block.

>> No.12188638

Is Wheel of Time worth getting into? That amount of books puts me off, and the fact that Sanderson wrote the ending puts me off even more.

>> No.12188678
File: 2.93 MB, 2512x8472, 5oezne4p37511.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12188678

>>12187236
Cringe and seethingpilled.

>> No.12188698

Any good new post-cyberpunk / computer tech novels?

>> No.12188733
File: 205 KB, 450x576, randal'thor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12188733

>>12188638
the'rey /comfy/ and very anime. the "prose" is pretty digestible and charming. There's a concenus that books 8 or 9 thru 11 are bretty boring but i personally thought they weren't. The entire thing is snail-paced, almost 1:1 through the eyes of the characters. Lots of autistic braid-tugging, grinning and chin-raising, but it's honestly part of the charm. Honestly 14 books is way too many, but there's just enough substance in the moment-to-moment to justify the length, at least in my mind. Not half as bad as /sffg/ makes it out to be.

>> No.12188739
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12188739

>>12188678
some of these are justifiable but taylor was unironically 100x more chad than fucking vic.
>get mindraped and cry for the rest of your life
>muh ethics muh feelings
>dude i can fly and have some shitty meme shield
>accomplishes nothing significant
vs
>Gets bullied, mom dies, betrayed by her best friend, tries to move on
>mostly cares about being effective, morals are secondary
>chad as fuck power, weapons grade shard that Entities never meant to give out
>single handedly saves humanity

Sorry sweety, there's not even really a contest

>> No.12188750

>>12188739
never really finished the novel but what can the bug girl do at the end?

>> No.12188764

>>12187951
>must to be
I lost it

>> No.12188765

>>12188049
>there are people who think all humanity being turned into one mystery meat race where buggery is the rule and everyone is cloned and wanting to have children is perverted is not disturbing

>> No.12188767

>>12188051
Book of the New Sun is the Dune of Dune.

>> No.12188771
File: 19 KB, 293x212, disgusted hispanic valet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12188771

>>12188198
>standard Gaiman protag
At least give him some kind of quirk.

>> No.12188801

>>12188698
Headcrash

>> No.12188829

>>12188750

when the end of the world finally comes, she has Panacea remove the manton effect (built-in safety measures) on her power. it allows her to control people instead of just insects but cuts her range to like 13 feet. To compensate she immediately seizes control of a cape that can create portals and a cape who can see the whole multiverse, then uses them to create a cloak of portals that puts her within 13 feet of every cape in every possible existence and organizes the final fight. Unfortunately, the overclocking give her moderate brain damage and the omniscient cape upped it to severe brain damage. Before the battle is even over, she loses complete fluency, can no longer identify faces or remember her friends. That said, she still manages to win in the most ironic way possible for someone with her backstory to do so She bullies a god into committing suicide

>> No.12189027

>>12186988
Wheel of Time

>> No.12189110

>>12188698
Vurt is stylistically cyberpunk but takes the genre into new directions.

>> No.12189143

>>12187292
I loved Last Call and have read it twice which is v rare for me.

I couldn't get into Anubis Gates or Expiration Date. I'd be willing to give Anubis Gates another try or Drawing of the Dark or something else but I think I've already found my peak Tim Powers novel unfortunately.

>> No.12189149

>>12186988
Jinx series, I highly recommend it
The Last Unicorn
The Belgariad
Sabriel
The House With A Clock In Its Walls

rereads of
Prydain
The Dark Is Rising
Narnia
The Forgotten Door
A Wrinkle In Time

>> No.12189153

>>12187292
>goodreads reviews with pictures after every paragraph

>> No.12189162

>>12189153
>that's extremely normal for GR

>> No.12189191

>>12187617
Nah

source: Amber

>> No.12189194

>>12189191
Each of the books had a main villain, whether another sibling or the black road or Chaos.

>> No.12189203

>>12189153
>review starts with a justification for why they read the book like a book club or a blog

bitch nobody fuckin cares

>> No.12189240

>>12187951
Thank you for this, really

>> No.12189257

>>12189203
Bitches love book clubs and blogs

>> No.12189273

>>12187809
Agents usually work on multiple cases at once, so your antag should still have work to do when not following the MC around. You can even make it that one of the antag's other investigations overlaps with your MC, and knowing this gives your antag some power him.

>> No.12189278

>>12188638
Even if there's some quality there it's a waste of time. Imagine all genuinely good books you might read in the time it will take to force your way through WoT.

>> No.12189283

>>12179077
You mean the character? You're not really supposed to like him 100%. He's a horrible person in a world of horrible people.

>> No.12189292

>>12189283
That's why I didn't like Cugel the Clever. He was horrible, everyone was horrible, I had a bad time. Dying Earth was a bunch of horrible people having horrible things happen to them and the occasional genuine hero.

>> No.12189295

Anyone read Vance's The Dragon Masters?

>> No.12189361

>>12188051

Zelazny did science fantasy both ways. Try either Creatures of Light and Darkness, or Lord of Light.

>> No.12189442

>>12189295
Yes. Easy recommendation if you enjoyed Dying Earth

>> No.12189457

>>12186487
the ear, the eye and the arm is pretty good. it refrences some politics but mostly just between black ethnic groups.

>> No.12189514

>>12189194
The black road and chaos aren’t really villains. More background noise. The evil goat thing in the second book was pretty poor too.

>> No.12189515

>>12188771
What did that valet see on Chloe that made him make his face like that?

>> No.12189527

>>12181390
yes
Mainly I just promoted the more interesting side-characters to main character status, since they were written with roles in the world.
It helps to not get attached to your darlings.

>> No.12189533

>>12183135
he's a good writer, but he's one of those dianetics freaks. i mean, i'm fine with writers who get picked up via the writers of the future thing, but sanderson is such a proponent of it that he comes off as someone whose work could very well be a big expanded universe of a scientology commercial.

>> No.12189537

>>12189515
Man was not meant to know.

>> No.12189539

>>12189514
They're still villains even if they're bad villains. There's also a case for Corwin is the villain.

>> No.12189553

>tfw none of your very few friends have any interest in reading novels
thank you for being here, /sffg/

>> No.12189561

>>12183443
comfy af series
Theres not much heavy stuff in it. Its mostly character development wrapped in simple plots.

>> No.12189596

>>12189533
Having never read Sanderson myself, and judging by your post alone, I am inclined to wonder whether the church of Scientology greased a few palms in order to get their lore out there to a modern audience.

>> No.12189622

>>12189596
Sanderson is a Mormon.

>> No.12189652

>>12189596
>confuses retarded mormons with retarded scientologist
Average /lit/eralretard reading comprehension

>> No.12189657

>>12189622
at least mormons get harems.

>> No.12189659

What is the /sffg/ equivalent of Texhnolyze?

>> No.12189685

>>12189652
Doesn't change the fact that he shills for Scientology. Nobody said anything about having a problem with his religion, but more with the fact that he endorses a business veiled as a religion. His own personal religion is irrelevant to that assertion. Check your own reading comprehension.

>> No.12189724

>>12189685
>Doesn't change the fact that he shills for Scientology.
Prove it. How and when did he shill for Scientology?

>> No.12189728

>>12189685
He shills for Mormonism you dolt.

>> No.12189731

>>12189724
He pushes (enthusiastically) the Writers of the Future contest in many of his lectures. Would you like me to search youtube for an example for you?

>> No.12189744

>>12189728
I don't doubt that.

>> No.12189753
File: 28 KB, 200x341, 200px-Mission-earth-1-the-invaders-plan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12189753

>>12189596
You seem to have confused L. Ron Hubbard, who died in 1986, and Brandon Sanderson, who's still alive.

Since you brought him up though, has anyone here actually read anything of Hubbard's? The guy wrote a ton of books so has anyone maybe accidentally picked one up? I watched Battlefield Earth when I was a kid and thought it was fun, albeit stupid.

>> No.12189758

Should I read The Black Company or Ilium by Dan Simmons first?

>> No.12189759

>>12189539
>corwin is the villain
Absolutely incorrect

>> No.12189790

>>12189731
And how tf is that shilling scientology? Sanderson isn't the first big author to be associated with WotF and he won't be the last.

>> No.12189796

>>12189753
Might be about time Sanderson started his own religion. Worked for Hubbard after all.

>> No.12189832

>>12189790
If you look at my original post, I said he's a good writer. However, his support of a fiction writing contest that serves the purpose of funding a mafioso organization known for exploiting and extorting individuals for profit adds an element to his (and any other WotF figurehead's) work that can't be avoided by anyone who doesn't want to support such a group. Like it or not, the writers taken under the wing of Scientology, be it directly through the church or via the WotF contest, are in a symbiotic relationship in which their talents wouldn't be exploited without some benefit to the church. Once again, he's a good writer, but he shills a predatory contest.

>> No.12189976

>>12188638
absolutely not, it's mediocre

>> No.12189979

>>12188051
God's War by Kameron Hurley might be the kinda thing you're after

>> No.12189986

>>12187617
no. if he doesn't fit and isn't necessary for the plot kick him out

>> No.12190979

What book published in 2018 are you guys reading?

>> No.12191038

>>12190979
haha

>> No.12191096

>>12190979
New spellslinger book. It’s YA shit but it’s pretty comfy.

>> No.12191180

>>12190979
The Tower of Living and Dying

>> No.12191257

>>12190979
Throne of Glass.

>> No.12191310

>>12190979
Masters of Rome

>> No.12191328

>>12191310
>>12191257
>no reading comprehension
I'm not surprised you are reading those books when you can't read.

>> No.12191361

>>12191328
Meant the latest Throne of Glass entry, moron.

>> No.12191425

>>12191328
Rome is eternal, moron.

>> No.12191548

>>12185388
I liked it when I read it, which was way back when I was the target audience, an imaginative optimistic kid in his early teens, oh where have the years gone. The sequels, I thought, also had cool moving city settings and adventures.
The movie was nice, Shrike was great.

>>12190979
Fire and Blood, all plot no filler, 150 years of it.

>> No.12191613

>>12185315
Can recommend Otherland too, it's an incredibly freaky trip at times.

>> No.12191625

>>12186988
The Mortal Engines series.

>> No.12191638

>>12188051
>any good space fantasy
Shadowline by Glen Cooks fits that to a T.

>> No.12191659

>>12191548
>Fire and Blood, all plot no filler, 150 years of it.
Oh god I can imagine. I read The Dance of the Dragons, it was exactly as bad as you would expect a book by GRRM to be with his biggest talent (believable, engaging and interesting charcaters) totally removed due to the genre.

>> No.12191665

>>12190979
ask me again in 2040

>> No.12191753

New
>>12191749
>>12191749
>>12191749

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