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/lit/ - Literature


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12170417 No.12170417 [Reply] [Original]

Should i learn half a dozen languages just to read literature? Is it worth it? I feel like i can't possibly get the real experience just through some translation of the original.

>> No.12170430

do you have anything better to be doing? Probably not.

>> No.12170444

>>12170430
this

>> No.12170446
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12170446

>>12170417
>tfw born a Spanish speaker
>know English like the rest of the world
>learn Latin and Greek at school
>80+% mutuall intellegibility with Portuguese and Italian
>learn French for pleasure
>learn German as a hobby
How can monolingualfags even compete?

>> No.12170451

>>12170446
But have you learnt moon yet?

>> No.12170459

>>12170417
Just trust the competence of the translators. It's always worth it to learn new languages but I wouldn't postpone good reading for it..

>> No.12170463

If you live in New York you probably already speak three. That said most people do learn more than their native language so as to absorb higher art in its desired form.

>> No.12170465

>half a dozen
Only English, French, Latin, Italian, and Russian are worth knowing.
You seem to know English. Now you only need four more.

>> No.12170466

>>12170446
>he only knows European languages

>> No.12170473

>>12170446
>know English like the rest of the world
Wait, do ESLs actually think that what they know amounts to English?

>> No.12170476
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12170476

>>12170446
>I speak Spanish and "international English"
Very impressive, indeed.

>> No.12170481

>>12170465
Japanese is pretty difficult to learn but it's incredibly beautiful. Lovely language.

>> No.12170487

>>12170481
>it's incredibly beautiful. Lovely language.
It's literally the harshest worst sounding East Asian language, delusional animetard.

>> No.12170491

>>12170473
>he doesn't know
Most ESLs have larger vocabulary than average native speaker, brainlet.

>> No.12170493

>>12170481
There's nothing to read in it. inb4 you dun no cuz translation

>> No.12170499

>>12170417
If you're an English native speaker, you should at the very least learn French.

>> No.12170503

>>12170491
>Most ESLs have larger vocabulary than average native speaker
Most ESLs can't get through two or three sentences without massive grammatical failure.
Regardless, vocabulary is the easiest thing in the world to acquire. I'm talking grammar and idiom intuition. Both of which your post is lacking.

>> No.12170506

>>12170465
What about German and Greek?

>> No.12170507

>>12170491
lol no

>> No.12170519

>>12170487
I don't follow anime or that other shit. I studied classical Japanese literature

>>12170491
I'm ESL and I have trouble with 19th century texts or older, there are so many words I have to look up.

>> No.12170521

>>12170503
>Most ESLs can't get through two or three sentences without massive grammatical failure.
yeah, they can, otherwise they wouldn't be true ESLs but mere wannabes or students.

>> No.12170531

>>12170519
>I'm ESL and I have trouble with 19th century texts or older, there are so many words I have to look up.
So do Burgerfats. They whine about it. They can't go beyond 19th century lit without feeling in an alien territory.

>> No.12170539

>>12170503
>Regardless, vocabulary is the easiest thing in the world to acquire.
There's not much more to English. Your orc tongue is literally just a giant mess of borrowed terms with shitty irregular orthographic loosely coupled together with stupefyingly simple degenerated grammar. "Idiom intuition" is little more than memorization of use cases.
>Both of which your post is lacking.
Cute how SEETHING makes you this irrational.

>> No.12170548

>>12170519
>I'm ESL and I have trouble with 19th century
So do most natives.

>> No.12170573

>>12170491
I'm ESL and the big writers are just insoluble to me.

>> No.12170585

>>12170506
German literature is very pretty weak stuff outside of a few philosophical works, most of which can be read as well in translation. The same is true of Greek. A lot of idiots will whine about this post, but mastering Greek is an immensely wasteful enterprise unless you have a special interest in Hellenic studies. There's only one Iliad and only one Odyssey. Much of the rest is going to be stuff like The Bacchae.
>>12170531
>lit without feeling in an alien territory.
Poor English.
>>12170539
>There's not much more to English
You mean not much more that your capable of perceiving.
>Cute how SEETHING makes you this irrational.
You write poor English. Sorry if that upsets you.

>> No.12170592

>>12170573
And you think the average Burgerfat can perfectly read Gravity's Rainbow and Ulysses? lol Dr Seuss and Harry Potter is their peak

>> No.12170602

>>12170585
That’s the kind of rhetoric to be expected from a dilettante unwilling to make any effort. If reading German means you can read Kant, Goethe, Heidegger and Mann in their unfiltered tongue, then it’s well worth it.

>> No.12170603

the only language you lot seem to know is how to suck each others dicks.

why is this board filled with beta cringelords?

>> No.12170607

>>12170585
>Poor English.
Let's see your Italian, French, Latin, Greek, Spanish, German, Portuguese, or Russian, Mr Nabokov. Surprise us.

>> No.12170608

>>12170585
>You mean not much more that your capable of perceiving.
I mean just what I said. Sorry if such a simple truth about your language upsets you.
>You write poor English.
Kek. No comment.

>> No.12170613
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12170613

>>12170585
>You write poor English.
>not much more that your capable of perceiving

>> No.12170621
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12170621

>>12170585
>very pretty weak
>your
>You write poor English.
>it's an ESL tries to larp as a native speaker episode

>> No.12170627

>>12170585
>German literature is very pretty weak stuff outside of a few philosophical works, most of which can be read as well in translation. The same is true of Greek. A lot of idiots will whine about this post, but mastering Greek is an immensely wasteful enterprise unless you have a special interest in Hellenic studies. There's only one Iliad and only one Odyssey. Much of the rest is going to be stuff like The Bacchae.

How can you not see the lack of self-awareness here. What constitutes the canon, the classics and works of merit is entirely shaped by which linguistic culture you’re from. Do you really think that the reason you are well aware of a considerably larger amount of good English literature than any other lang is not due to the fact that you were born, raised and currently socialized in a predominantly English-speaking community? To know a language is to know a world. If you could speak German, Greek or Spanish you would be well aware of a much larger sphere of great literature in those languages than you would otherwise.

>> No.12170632

>>12170487
Chinese sounds like mumblecore with all those unrolled Rs

>> No.12170637

>>12170487
You have shit taste or you're Chinese

>> No.12170643

>>12170632
>>12170637
>seething porn cartoon connoisseurs
Phonetically Japanese is horrible. Deal with it.

>> No.12170651

>>12170602
>That’s the kind of rhetoric to be expected from a dilettante unwilling to make any effort.
This is the kind of rhetoric to be expected from a dilettante who doesn't know what true effort is and thinks it means reaching a conversational level. True effort is time consuming and needs to be economized
Goethe and Mann are bad writers and philistines. Kant and Heidegger can be read in other languages.
>Let's see your Italian, French, Latin, Greek, Spanish, German, Portuguese, or Russian, Mr Nabokov. Surprise us.
Nabokov never spoke Italian, Latin, Greek, Spanish, or more than a small smattering of German.
Why you've added portugese I can't imagine.
>>12170608
>Kek. No comment.
Calm down.
>>12170613
>>12170621
typo cope

>> No.12170666

>>12170643
Yep, you're an angry Chinese. ching chong.

>> No.12170671

>>12170627
>How can you not see the lack of self-awareness here. What constitutes the canon, the classics and works of merit is entirely shaped by which linguistic culture you’re from.
And nearly all of the contributions of Greek can be had in translation. There is only a motive of personal enjoyment for learning old Greek. There are beautiful works in that language. For most, it is not worth the effort however.
> Do you really think that the reason you are well aware of a considerably larger amount of good English literature than any other lang is not due to the fact that you were born, raised and currently socialized in a predominantly English-speaking community?
I listed 4 languages besides English with great literature.

>> No.12170678

>>12170481
The fundamentals can be somewhat hard to acquire at first for an English native since they're quite different, but one you get past that most of it is easy, and it gets considerably easier the more you know; I think time in the language is much more of a factor than sheer difficulty. Once you have a solid understanding of the fundamentals the only really difficult parts are a handful of niche nuances in grammar and tones (if you actually care about how you sound).

>>12170487
I don't see that at all. I would say Taiwanese, but it's just personal preference at the end of the day.

>> No.12170684

>>12170651
>Nabokov never spoke Italian, Latin, Greek, Spanish, or more than a small smattering of German.
I never said he did. I was mocking your English, ironically calling you Nabokov. But don't change the topic, show us your knowledge of other languages or gtfo.

>> No.12170686
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12170686

>>12170651
>Goethe and Mann are bad writers and philistines
>Kant and Heidegger can be read in other languages

>> No.12170703

>>12170684
>I never said he did. I was mocking your English, ironically calling you Nabokov
Point out successfully something wrong with my English and I'll oblige you.

>> No.12170712
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12170712

>>12170491

>> No.12170719

>>12170465
Both German and Spanish have much more substantial corpora of significant literary works than Italian. Your whole reply chain is one giant cringe-inducing performance of a retarded pseud. Please, stop spreading misinformation and FUD.

>> No.12170724

>>12170678
>but one you get past that most of it is easy
What? How about memorizing 15000 unique characters with several different pronunciations? And the different registers are incredibly tough to get used to in everyday conversation

>> No.12170725

>>12170703
>You mean not much more that your capable of perceiving.
Here you used "your" instead of "you're". Rookie mistake, but since you have an absolute control of the English tongue (and Nabokov tier prose), this shouldn't have happened.

>> No.12170729
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12170729

>>12170651
>Goethe and Mann are bad writers and philistines

>> No.12170741

>>12170725
I said something wrong with my English itself, not mere typos on a message board. This is pretty weak stuff. By that logic there isn't a person in history with good prose.

>> No.12170762

>>12170719
>Both German and Spanish have much more substantial corpora of significant literary works than Italian. Your whole reply chain is one giant cringe-inducing performance of a retarded pseud. Please, stop spreading misinformation and FUD.
If you state it emphatically, it must be true.
>>12170686
>>12170729
poshlust philistines

>> No.12170767

>>12170741
>m-my mistakes are just typos!

>> No.12170768
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12170768

>>12170741
>oh no no no those are just typos
>after sperging at perfectly correct posts for being "poor English"

>> No.12170782

>>12170762
It is objectively true. To claim otherwise would be insane and you know it. Hence the glib pseud remark.
>poshlust
It's poshlost, retarded RSL.

>> No.12170791

>>12170741
There's nothing wrong with my English, neither. And "your" is more than a mere typo. It's a mental fart.

>> No.12170798

Do people actually believe in learning Greek/latin as some kind of gateway to forbidden knowledge?

>> No.12170805

>>12170768
>>12170767
>too incompetent to judge actual prose style
>i'll just pretend that everyone doesn't make typos from carelessness
I mean if online victories mean so much to you, you have this one. I'd still be interested to see whether or not you have a working conception of style, though. If typos are indicative of poor writing, then surely you have better writing than mine. Write me a few sentences describing an abandoned building or a forest or something.

>> No.12170806
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12170806

>ITT

>> No.12170810

>>12170798
The exorcism Mass is in Latin, though.

>> No.12170812

>>12170791
>There's nothing wrong with my English, neither.
either*
>And "your" is more than a mere typo. It's a mental fart.
It's mere carelessness. A small thing to me, but it seems to mean the world to you.

>> No.12170829

>>12170805
Not until you show us your knowledge of a second language, Mr Nabokov. It's easy to throw shit at ESLs, but let's see how you use another tongue. I pointed out your mistake, now it's your turn.

>> No.12170831

>>12170724
>What? How about memorizing 15000 unique characters with several different pronunciations?
firstly, I assume you meant 1500, but even then if you're alluding to the 常用漢字 it's like 2100 or so. either way, again that's not so much difficult as it is just time-consuming. unless you're actually mentally challenged, you can make your brain remember them if you put in the time. it's not like certain parts of grammar that are hard to wrap your head around, they're just symbols you have to memorize. and as far as the pronunciations go, the vast majority of them have the same kun yomi and on yomi. some of them only have one. knowing the ones that have a unique kun yomi or on yomi is again simply a matter of remembering.

>And the different registers are incredibly tough to get used to in everyday conversation

At first sure, but, at least for me, it doesn't take *that* much input to get accustomed to. A lot of the familiarity happens unconsciously anyways; all you really have to do is just consume enough content and it eventually becomes second nature.

>> No.12170839

>>12170762
>poshlust
kek and lmoa

>> No.12170841

>>12170829
>I pointed out your mistake,
No, you hid and continue to hide behind a typo. If a typo were proof enough of bad English, then you would be able to call Elliot and Nabokov poor writers. You need something substantial before you'll get anything out of me.

>> No.12170845
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12170845

>>12170805
>muh style
>"very pretty weak"
>"write poor English"
Nigger, not only do you lack any sense of style, you fail to preserve basic lexical cohesion sometimes. Those angry little pseud tirades spiced up with thesaurus autoreplacements aren't nearly as impressive as you're imagining.

>> No.12170862

>>12170831
>I assume you meant 1500
My bad, I included those needed for classical literature. You still need way more than the jouyou kanji for competence.

>> No.12170875

>>12170841
>I-I can't write in another language hehe that wasn't a mistake it was a typo! Every great writer has them! xD
Pusillanimous. As expected. Have a nice day, Mr Nabokov.

>> No.12170884

>>12170845
>"very pretty weak"
>"write poor English"
The first is an obvious typo and there is nothing wrong with the second.
>Nigger, not only do you lack any sense of style, you fail to preserve basic lexical cohesion sometimes.
On the basis of more typos?
> Those angry little pseud tirades spiced up with thesaurus autoreplacements
I haven't used a single uncommon or especially literary word. This says a lot about what you consider to be "difficult words."
>aren't nearly as impressive as you're imagining.
Now you're making me think you were impressed with my English, which I purposely try to keep as clear and simple as possible.

>> No.12170895

Why, is it just me or is being born monolingual at Mandarin a barrier against nearly all other language learnings? This tongue works anyway but grammatically.

>> No.12170908

>>12170884
>The first is an obvious typo
I've never seen this much grasping at straws in my entire life

>> No.12170915
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12170915

>>12170884
>I haven't used a single uncommon or especially literary word. This says a lot about what you consider to be "difficult words."
>he can't even comprehend an insult thrown at him

>muh English is so fucking superior, ESLs
>Now you're making me think you were impressed with my English

>> No.12170916
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12170916

>>12170884
Whatever helps you sleep at night, faggot.

>> No.12170918

>>12170875
>Pusillanimous. As expected. Have a nice day, Mr Nabokov.
What was even the point of all this? You could have discussed the merits of those languages, but instead you hid behind shallow criticisms and then got scared and ran off as soon as I demanded something more substantial. I'm willing to show you my French as well as my Latin just as soon as you've demonstrated what's wrong with my English style.

>> No.12170945

>>12170915
>muh English is so fucking superior, ESLs
>>Now you're making me think you were impressed with my English
All I said was I keep my English simple. The fact that you think of it as thesaurus English says that you were somewhat impressed with the vocabulary, which frankly pretty pathetic.
>>12170908
Only an ESl wouldn't recognize it as such.
>>12170916
cope

>> No.12170967

>>12170918
>instead you hid behind shallow criticisms
You barged into thread foaming about everyone's English being poor and repeating it over and over without any substantiation whatsoever. Mocking and deriding your turgid stupidity and complete lack of self-awareness is basically a thing of honor. Plus the whole delusional Anglo angle is just hilarious.

>> No.12170973
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12170973

>>12170945
>still can't comprehend what thesaurus comment meant
Very poor style, my good chap.

>> No.12170975

>>12170862
>My bad, I included those needed for classical literature.
Not to say the number is wrong, but that does seem like it would be a bit off to me. Where exactly did you get that number?

>You still need way more than the jouyou kanji for competence.
that depends on where you're applying competence to. in everyday life, as the name suggests, the 常用漢字 are are suggested for everyday situations, but in all honesty you can successfully communicate in Japanese with less. I've been told by Japanese people that they on average know roughly 3500 or so, and academics know somewhere around 5000. but I've also seen some say it's higher; there's no real concrete answer as far as I've seen.

>> No.12171001

>>12170918
You're the one with the shallow criticisms. "Poor English" (and then immediately typed "your" instead of you're, pathetic). After you got all salty about the fact I was an ESL and said what I knew amounted to nothing, I demanded your knowledge of your SL, which you failed to present and then after I pointed out your stupid mistake you hid in the fact it was a mere typo and that all the greats have them.

Cope harder, monolingualfag.

>> No.12171002

>>12170967
>You barged into thread foaming about everyone's English being poor and repeating it over and over without any substantiation whatsoever.
Besides your grammatical errors
>Mocking and deriding your turgid stupidity
Turgid isn't the right word
>and complete lack of self-awareness is basically a thing of honor
This is an imageboard where people post japanese cartoon titties
>Plus the whole delusional Anglo angle is just hilarious.
Then why do you sound so serious/upset?
>>12170973
I know what it was supposed to mean. I'm much more interested in what you didn't want it to mean. You thought thesaurus as soon as you saw my simply written posts because very basic english seems elevated to you.

>> No.12171003

>>12170975
>Where exactly did you get that number?
University. I studied Japanese literature there. My kanji dictionary has pretty much that amount.
Either way, the multiple pronunciations are tough as hell. Maybe because I studied Chinese too and sometimes the symbols overlapped, but it was utter chaos in my mind

>> No.12171022
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12171022

>>12171002
>I know what it was supposed to mean
>but I'm going to deliberately interpret it differently to help me cope with being dabbed on by ESLs
What was the phrase? Ah, yes. Cope harder, faggot.

>> No.12171025

>>12171001
>You're the one with the shallow criticisms. "Poor English" (and then immediately typed "your" instead of you're, pathetic)
Hiding behind typos like a teen girl on facebook
>After you got all salty about the fact I was an ESL and said what I knew amounted to nothing, I demanded your knowledge of your SL, which you failed to present and then after I pointed out your stupid mistake you hid in the fact it was a mere typo and that all the greats have them.
>Cope harder, monolingualfag.
I can furnish proof of my knowledge. Just write three good sentences describing a tree or a house or anything and then we can start conversing in French or Latin.

>> No.12171038

>>12171002
>Besides your grammatical errors
Those are all typos of course.
>Turgid isn't the right word
It is.
>This is an imageboard where people post japanese cartoon titties
Yet you still manage to be completely unaware of yourself.
>Then why do you sound so serious/upset?
Guess you hear whatever helps you cope.

>> No.12171074

>Unironically attempting to save face on an anonymous cantonese basket weaving bulletin board system

>> No.12171095

>>12171038
>Those are all typos of course.
Clearly not
>It is.
Prove it then
>Yet you still manage to be completely unaware of yourself.
Says the guy fighting for honor on a jap titties website
>Guess you hear whatever helps you cope.
Projection

Give me three good English sentences or gtfo

>> No.12171118

>>12171003
how did / do you go about learning kanji? But I can understand the tightened degree of difficulty if the pronunciations are conflicting with the Chinese pronunciations, especially if you were learning them at the same time. Idk it may just be a personality difference at the end of the day

>> No.12171129

>>12171095
>Clearly not
Clearly they are.
>Prove it then
You made the claim you prove it, illiterati.
>Says the guy fighting for honor
I'm just here to enjoy your impotent SEETHING and desperate wiling away.
>Projection
N-no you!11

Give me three good Russian sentences or gtfo

>> No.12171192

I stay monolingual because Im a wagecuck brainlet and know ill never get to anything past small talk level.

>> No.12171230

>>12171192
how do you know? you don't have to be some high iq anglo to learn a foreign language, and if you're native language is English, there are plenty of languages you could get past small talk level in no time.

>> No.12171247

>>12171118
you gotta learn the radicals bro. I'm a different anon, but I learned my first 1,000 kanji sort of brute forcing it. Then I switched to Chinese, where you need to know a lot more (5,000 is college-level literacy, 10,000 is professor level). Start by learning the 275 or so radicals. Then it's way easier to piece characters together as you learn them. Once you learn around 5k characters then it's just easy to pick up more and it becomes hard to calculate how many you actually know

>> No.12171382

>>12171129
>Give me three good Russian sentences or gtfo
Never claimed to speak Russian. You claim to speak good English. Give me three good sentences or run away.

>> No.12171407

>>12171382
I've given plenty, bubbah. It's unhealthy to seethe this long.

>> No.12171413

>>12171407
>I've given plenty, bubbah
Then one more shouldn't hurt
>It's unhealthy to seethe this long.
Three sentences fag or you're a coward on an anime forum

>> No.12171418

>>12171413
I don't understand. Are you having a nervous breakdown?

>> No.12171437

>>12171418
Weak dodge desu, all this shifting and crying and you can't even write three tolerable English sentences.

>> No.12171446

>>12171437
But I've written dozens of them in this very thread. Are you actually having a stroke?

>> No.12171582

>>12171446
>But I've written dozens of them in this very thread
I said three good ones.
> Are you actually having a stroke?
my sides, how do you even get this desperate

>> No.12171806

>>12170446
If you monolingual you're a brainlet even 3rd worlders can speak multiple languages.

>> No.12172310

>>12171806
>If you monolingual you're a brainlet
I never said I was monolingual. Quite the opposite.

>even 3rd worlders can speak multiple languages.
Americans can only speak 1 language, despite being "first worlders", though.

>>
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