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/lit/ - Literature

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12156376 No.12156376 [Reply] [Original]

>Falls in love with some crazy whore from Alabama of all places.
>Ruins his literary performance despite being talented.

Tragic, isn't it?

>> No.12156384

>>12156376
Well, you haven’t gotten to my diary yet desu

You are in for a wild ride

>> No.12156383

>>12156376
>Falls in love with someone stable and gets his life back together
>Dies soon after

>> No.12156394

>>12156376
no because he had nothing new to contribute

>> No.12156401

>>12156376
He was of Irish descent
The drink would have gotten him eventually

>> No.12156424

>>12156394
and neither have you

>> No.12156459

>implying she wasn’t the one who wrote all his “pretty” passages

He was just a mediocre story architect and political schmoozer

>> No.12156479

>>12156459
>implying some whore from Alabama could write anything that her own name
Anon, I...

>> No.12156510

>>12156479
You clearly have never met an intelligent bipolar woman. They basically communicate in disjointed poem, don’t know how to do anything practical though.

>> No.12156520

>>12156479
She was his muse for a reason.

>> No.12156521

>>12156424
I feel so injured.

>> No.12156547

>>12156520
that's not how muses work, but whatever

>> No.12156552

>>12156547
>how muses work
Are you a fucking retard? It’s a fucking fake thing. There is always a practical explanation

>> No.12156566

>>12156552
Not really, a muse is source of inspiration, but not fucking literally, as in they tell him stuff, but rather they make him see things that were already in him. The hell with your practical explanations. inb4 butthurt reply. idgaf, I'm right.

>> No.12156593

>>12156566
No, you’re not. What you “see” comes from somewhere, in this case her diary.
You’re clueless romantic who probably never touched a girl or felt true creative inspiration in your life

>> No.12156602

>>12156593
That's not inspiration, what you're talking about is influence. You must be American. You sound as autistic about art as one of them.

>> No.12156607

It's not like she was some random hick, she was from a good Alabama family. Every state has at least a few notable families heavily involved in politics and business. The Sayres, as far as I can tell, were one of those.

>> No.12156655

>>12156602
That literally doesn’t even make sense. A “muse” would also be a form influence, but on its own it is a fantastical concept that really amounts to a fancy form of prostitution for practical purposes

>> No.12156683

>>12156655
>a fancy form of prostitution for practical purposes
Now, THIS doesn't even make sense but whatever. You're conflating influence with inspiration. Have you ever been in love? If I were to write a poem while being in love? Would that be an influence or an inspiration for you?

>> No.12156693

>>12156683
In a practical sense influence and inspiration are the same thing. Love isn’t a real tangible either. You’re clearly a pretentious poet type so this will fly over your head, rest assured the world won’t give a shit about the subjective significance of your muse, only what actually amounts to the product

>> No.12156700
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12156700

>>12156693

>> No.12156712

>>12156693
>about the subjective significance of your muse, only what actually amounts to the product
Yeah, but we're discussing something else here, so this is irrelevant and besides the point. In "practical terms" a room and a prison cell are the same thing.

>> No.12156733

>>12156712
A bedroom, a cell has a practical purpose as a living environment. Art is a product. It has a means of production. The glorification of this process is actually one mistake we are rightly stepping away from in the modern world, not in the right direction as of yet, but forward momentum is better than superstition

>> No.12156756

>>12156712
All your points amount to semantics btw

>> No.12156766

>>12156712
In reality, there are many different kinds of influence.
There has never been a documented example of true inspiration that couldnt be defined as a form of influence.

>> No.12156774

>>12156733
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy3yz0W4xIw

>Art is a product. It has a means of production.
This is where you and I disagree. It's clear this is a chiefly American view on art.

>The glorification of this process is actually one mistake we are rightly stepping away from in the modern world, not in the right direction as of yet, but forward momentum is better than superstition
Cringe. Quite the opposite, art is dying. American cinema nowadays is shit.

>> No.12156791

>>12156774
>using cinema as an example
turblo-pleb. That was the whole point of the medium you anachronistic and deluded fuck. Americans are at the modern forefront of art for a reason, it's not a "good" one but it is necessary.

All people really care about is the end result. A room and cell are constructed similary but no one cares until its utilized.
Art has no true empirically true utilizaation so all you can do is look at the means by which it was created.
You used a bad allegory.

>> No.12156815

>>12156791
>All people really care about is the end result.
Yeah, but we're not talking about the end result, you autist. Otherwise, we'd be fucking talking about it, ffs.

>You used a bad allegory.
That's not what allegory even means.

>Americans are at the modern forefront of art for a reason
Art is pretty much dead. No one is at the forefront of a corpse.

What happens in that scene is basically the American idea of "art" nowadays, and what you get is soulless pieces of shit.

>> No.12156822

>>12156815
>Yeah, but we're not talking about the end result, you autist. Otherwise, we'd be fucking talking about it, ffs.

we were in the case of the jail cell/bedroom metaphor

>That's not what allegory even means.
Youre right but I could create an artistic reason for my choice

>Art is pretty much dead. No one is at the forefront of a corpse.
We are only exposing the truth, dummy.

Only time will tell.
My only true point is that you shouldn't place too much faith in your "magical feelings", realize a muse is just a tool and takes many forms.

>> No.12156832

>>12156815
>Yeah, but we're not talking about the end result, you autist. Otherwise, we'd be fucking talking about it, ffs.
And in a sense, that is all we talked about. Art's end result is just the combined effort of its means of production.
You cna't say that entirely about a room designed for a specific, controlled purpose.

>> No.12156856

>>12156822
>My only true point is that you shouldn't place too much faith in your "magical feelings", realize a muse is just a tool and takes many forms.
I agree, then, anon.

>> No.12157709

>>12156376
He was kind of faggy but I still love him for his good taste, his love of Joyce, Greeks and Romans, and his desire to live the literary Chad lifestyle. He was just a momma’s boy at his core and though he was hetero he had slightly low self esteem and an effeminate nature.

He had great aesthetic sense though, I reread the last few pages of Gatsby recently and it still holds up

>> No.12158392

>>12156376

>fell in love with literally mental woman
>still published three masterpieces
>spent time in Paris and the Mediterranean
>was drunk the whole time

This guy is fucking untouchable. You faggots have nothing on him. He lived the life we all envy, so get over it.

>> No.12158831

>>12158392
This.

Just because the guy wasn't a philosophical and political thinker doesn't make him a bad writer.

>> No.12159729

>>12158831
I never implied he was a bad writer, on the contrary. But he could have done so much more had he been driven and not wasted his time with Zelda.

>> No.12160470
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12160470

>>12156510
>intelligent bipolar woman
keking at this.

>> No.12161806

>>12160470
intelligence is relative.
Most bi-polar people are fucked up, but sometimes they are maniacal manipulators in ways you wouldn't imagine

>> No.12161821

>>12156593
god this board is bad now

>> No.12161833

>>12161821
>believe in a muse as an actual tangible thing, worthy of respect
>implying it's not just a lame form of paganism

ok, retard.

>> No.12161857

>>12158831
>Just because the guy wasn't a philosophical
All of his books amount to philosophical, just not outright philosophy.

>> No.12161888

>>12161833
It's not worthy of respect because you simply feed off your own reactions to someone causing emotional turbulence inside you. Love is just particularly potent at this

But "paganism", really?

>> No.12161901

>>12161888
>implying that's what a muse/love is
first off, love isnt a real thing.
and what you described is called a fucking fire, a hell of a motivator but nothing special

>> No.12161910

>>12161901
>love isnt a real thing
Why?

>> No.12161920

>>12161910
fucking prove it, that's why.
it could awlays bee something else, same deal with the muse.
It's romantic corruption of truth.

>> No.12161929

>>12161920
You have to be immature to confuse lust or infatuation or whatever other drive to possess, with genuine love. Don't worry, age will expand your emotional awareness

>> No.12161937

>>12161929
>implying that's love
that's a form of fear you learn to embrace in age.
sorry, boomer but your whole world is a lie and that's why you are poor, dumb, and essentially being cucked by life.

>> No.12161955

>>12161937
Your cynicism is entirely misplaced and cliché, proven by your wild assumptions
I'm propably younger than you, but for your sake I hope I'm older because you should have outgrown that pathetic mindset before you reach 20

>> No.12161961

>>12161955
you are probably just naive and dumb, desu.
when you get older and start working in the real world it becomes increasingly clear that love is sometihng more complex than "muh feelings". It's about as depraved as your most lustful feelings but we dress it up all nice.

>> No.12161968

>>12161961
Sure it is. I'm not the one reducing the emotional depth and complexity of it though.
It's incredibly nuanced and rare but I know from first-hand experience it exists

>> No.12161973

>>12161968
>emotional depth, complexity
All love is prostitution in a dress if you know how to properly analyze its complexity

>> No.12161991

>>12161973
Why? Because you rob each other of rights, of freedom? Because you tailor reality to each others' needs? Of course it's a trade-off, a pact. But what you get in return is vastly richer than what you sacrifice, if you chose the right partner.
Who broke your heart Anon?

>> No.12161998

>>12161991
No one broke my heart I've just been on all sides of female desire in my life.
Went from nothing to a big something and the crushing empty truth, the thing most people are afraid to tell you, came crashing down on me.
You are young, people are flawed and broken.
Love won't save you or them. It's something you learn to deal with, but to glorify it is simply naive and childish imo.

>> No.12162006

>>12161973
>All love is prostitution in a dress
Dating is prostitution in a dress. Love is love.

>> No.12162013

>>12162006
love loves to love love am i rite?
fucking fag. Dating is about the only time you will ever truly see what "love" really requires.
When you're stuck with a person you lose sight of the reality for a variety of reasons. Its not because love is magic, but because people are weak and lazy.

>> No.12162021

>>12161998
I understand, but I'm more pragmatic about it than you think. I'm no poet that glorifies it as the essence of life. I just like to come home, unburden myself with someone, enjoy the soft feminine comforting energy, be able to retreat from reality, even for a moment, with someone you cherish, even if that emotions is fleeting. That to me is the value of 'love'

>> No.12162025

>>12162013
What a misguided, cynical, and ridiculous argument. You sound like an edgy teenager who thinks everything is fake and gay. Love makes your lose sight of reality because it's a chemical reaction in the brain, it has those effects on people. You haven't loved, have you? And no, dating is like a socially acceptable form of prostitution. Love is something else entirely.

>> No.12162033

>>12162021
your girlfriend would leave you if she met someone "better".
consider this.
>>12162025
>it's a chemical reaction in the brain
designed to promote our weakness and encourage child-rearing on both sides. Enjoy being a woman's tool.

>> No.12162059

>>12162033
>your girlfriend would leave you if she met someone "better

Let's say this is partly correct and most women are hypergamous by nature.
Then I have countered this by being more attractive than her. More charming and intelligent. Having constant female attention to fuel her jealousy, which is a nice bonus on top of being ego nourishment. She feels indebted to me just for my presence. That facilitates love

>> No.12162062

>>12162059
that's a form of prostitution though.
You see my point?

>> No.12162078

>>12162062
Not him, but prostitution usually involves monetary or material things.

>> No.12162082

>>12162062
That sounds too vulgar to me. It's just a powerplay. That's the main problem with love, especially when we're young, we can't disconnect the machiavellian from the romantic

>> No.12162083

>>12162078
>usually
that's why I said form. money is also hardly a real thing as well, but try telling that to fools like you.

>> No.12162088

>>12162082
>implying the romantic aspect of love isnt developed out of fear and mostly as a means of showing off, or adapting to yet another form of prostitution

>> No.12162095

>>12162083
Money is very real. I mean, yeah, it only works because we all have decided to agree on its power, but it definitely exists, unlike, say, borders or laws. It's certainly more real than those.

>> No.12162097

>>12162095
money is about as real as the law (can be), and by the transitive property, borders as well.
Like I said, you wouldn't understand because you believe in things like love.
And this is coming from a wealthy guy who has a flock of female fans.

>> No.12162099

>>12162088
>yet another form of prostitution
I don't think you know what prostitution even means. It's not only a thing that involves love and some exchange. It HAS to have a monetary/material aspect in order for it to be prostitution.

>> No.12162100

>>12162099
It's a metaphorical prostitution you literal dunce

>> No.12162108

>>12162097
>"Like I said, you wouldn't understand because you believe in things like love."
I never said I believed in love. I'm not the other guy. All I said was that love was a chemical reaction in the brain.

>> No.12162111

>>12162108
well, youre right about that.
My point was is that so is fear and my desire to cum on girls' faces. It is what it is, you learn to deal with it and how to pimp it better, but at the end of the day it's an ugly thing.

>> No.12162114

>>12162100
>metaphorical prostitution
There's no such thing. There isn't a thing in your replies where "exchange" couldn't have been used instead of "prositution". Prostitution is just a exchange. Sex for money. Money for sex. That's it.

>> No.12162117

>>12162114
it implies a dirty trade.
And uh, pretty sure metaphors arent technically "real" now are they? love is just a metaphor.

>> No.12162120

>>12162114
actual definition:
>the unworthy or corrupt use of one's talents for the sake of personal or financial gain.

retard. just about anything could be whorish.

>> No.12162134

>>12162111
>but at the end of the day it's an ugly thing.
It is a game for dirty players, indeed.

>> No.12162140

>>12162120
how's that Anon's love like prostitution, though?

>> No.12162148

>>12162140
>women are hypergamous by nature
>will always leave you for someone "better" (recall that as much as you might tihnk so, you are not teh best "you" out there in the world, you are not special)
>he has to counter this by being more attractive, intelligent, and likable than her
>tthe mere use of the word counter implies an antagonistic relationship
>doesn't realize his relationship is actually centered around control and a warlike drum in his heart he's dumb enough to call love

>> No.12162155

>>12162148
>women are hypergamous by nature
Gotcha. I believe they call it "monkey branching" in dating circles. Like how a monkey jumps to a better branch or whatever. All in all, women are whores, and we are their psuedo-clients.