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/lit/ - Literature


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12100269 No.12100269 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.12100281
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>> No.12100284

>>12100281
No memes please

>> No.12100289
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>> No.12100347

Americans can read?

>> No.12100353

>>12100347
I'm suprised noone has cited the bible yet.

>> No.12100361

>>12100353

Americans read the bible?

>> No.12100365

>>12100361
/lit/ swears by it

>> No.12100368

how to regrow your foreskin

>> No.12100375

Moby Dick, amerifriend

>> No.12100391

>>12100365

/lit/ is only good when the Americans are asleep or at their third shift jobs. Anything posted between 0900 EST and 2200 EST I would disregard. Those are prime Yank hours when they skulk and fling their shit.

>> No.12100466
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12100466

>>12100347

>> No.12100471

>>12100391
it's true desu

>> No.12100478
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12100478

>> No.12100480

>>12100466
>Japs and Brits read less than Burgers
Something seems off

>> No.12100482

>>12100466
>Brazil reads more than Japan and Korea

h-haha

>> No.12100493

>>12100480
Literacy in Japan is a big problem. The youth is stuck reading manga and light novels instead of actual literature. There's also a general poverty in vocabulary, to the point where furigana (pronounciation aids above kanji) is becoming more and more popular.

>> No.12100495

>>12100480
Manga does not as reading material.

>> No.12100657

>>12100269
You're going to have to define what and who is American first.

>> No.12100668

>>12100466
What kind of novels appeal to Indians?

>> No.12100669

>>12100657
An American is a someone who is northwestern European and has northwestern European descent and is a citizen of the United States

>> No.12100701
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12100701

>>12100669
>An American is a someone who is northwestern European
The Revolt Against Civilization by Stoddard

>> No.12100705

>>12100668
Do Indians read while they shit on the street?

>> No.12100713

>>12100466
>read the most
>average IQ: 82
Damn, Schopenhauer was right all along.

>> No.12100717

>>12100669
What about citizens of Italian or Slavic origin? By your definition Nikola Tesla is not American, for example.

Anyway, the simple answer is all Americans should be familiar with the bibliographies of the seven founding fathers. Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, and William James are also essential. I also regard Jean Baudrillard's bibliography as critical reading for more educated Americans today (more educated since reading him presupposes an education in philosophy).

>> No.12100726
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>>12100269

>> No.12100732

War is a Racket.

Manufacturing Consent.

>> No.12100746
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>>12100717
Italian immigrants accomplished nothing except continue the tradition of hyphenated-Americanism where they had allegiance to a country that they never set foot in like the Germans and Irish here. I'm very particular about who should be able to come to this country and who'd be able to integrate and assimilate well. Germans, Italians, and the Irish were the biggest mistake while the British, Swiss, and Dutch were some of the greatest. But I will admit, there are always some exceptions to the rules like Nikola Tesla. But did Tesla feel like an American?

>> No.12100792
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12100792

The 2nd Amendment Primer

>> No.12100843

>>12100493
Written Japanese is such a badly constructed language, i don't blame them.

>> No.12101006

>>12100669
el crinjo

>> No.12101013

>>12100746
>swiss
>dutch
>not germans
you poltards never ceasebto amaze with your excedingly stupid arbritary standards

>> No.12101037
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>> No.12101044
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>>12101013
What exactly did Germans, Italians, and Irish bring besides division to this country? It has been shown throughout American history that these people never assimilated or integrated like the Scandinavians or the British. We don't even identify as just Americans anymore, people seem so quick to identify with whatever their ethnic groups is from despite not even knowing where to point to it on a map. Hell, even Trump, arguably the most American person personified said he's proud to have German ancestry as if it's some great accomplishment.

>> No.12101054

>>12100269
The Federalist Papers
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Moby Dick
Democracy in America
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee
The Autobiography of Malcom X
A Bright and Shining Lie

>> No.12101058

>>12100493
>o the point where furigana (pronounciation aids above kanji) is becoming more and more popular.
How so? They have furigana in shounen manga but not seinen right? Is this changing?

>> No.12101097

>>12101044
I think in the future communities will be formed along ethnic, cultural, or religious lines and not on the basis of a "citizenship" that is already losing all meaning and significance. This is the way it was for thousands of years before the advent of the state in the early modern period.

>> No.12101135
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>>12101097
That wasn't my question and you're deflecting. What on earth did Germans, Italians, and the Irish bring to this country besides division? A nation is ethnic, cultural, and religion and a plethora of other parts to the sum of the citizen.

>> No.12101150

>>12101135
Nothing wrong with Lutheran Germans.
The Catholics and Germanic Jews on the other hand...

>> No.12101220

>>12101150
No, any immigrants from Germany, in general, were shit.

>> No.12101276

Every white American with an iota of testosterone needs to read Lonesome Dove.

>> No.12101456

A PEOPLE'S HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES

>> No.12101471

>>12100284
why make a thread then

>> No.12101478

>>12101456
>Zinn was born to a Jewish immigrant family in Brooklyn on August 24, 1922
Oof

>> No.12101594

>>12101135
>A nation is ethnic, cultural, and religion and a plethora of other parts to the sum of the citizen.
Ideology is part of that "plethora of other parts." The American became a concept necessarily. They only brought division in the eyes of people who were not smart enough to perceive the conceptual unity between increasingly diverse Americans. Also, I find it funny that you list ethnic as the first attribute of a nation when in post-structural society (which we currently live in) ethnicity becomes one of fairly minor importance.

>> No.12101611

>>12101054
Two of these, The Federalist Papers and Democracy In America are really must-reads if you want to understand what Political science, and not political philosophy is like

>> No.12101612

>>12100668
Java for Dummies

>> No.12101629

>>12101478
It’s not bad. A Jewish author doesn’t make it bad. Give me a fucking break man. A preponderance of Jewish people in financial institutions and the media? Sure some kind of nepotism is going on and needs to be stopped, but a Jew wrote a book? Who cares.

Von Neumann was a Jew. And a wonderful contribution to America

>> No.12101644

>>12100478
Underrated

>> No.12101658
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12101658

>>12101594
>fairly minor importance
That's rich considering niggers and spics want as much representation as possible
Yes ideology is part of that equation and only certain groups understand that ideology. Some people think freedom is about doing anything, and I mean anything, when freedom is being used as a synonym for liberty.
>American became a concept. They only brought division in the eyes of people who were not smart enough to perceive the conceptual unity between increasingly diverse Americans
What on earth is good about being more diverse? American have increasingly become dumber, more violent, fatter, with test scores dropping and even literacy rate falling with crime increasing in the diverse areas and social cohesion out the fucking window. Is that good? Do you think our immigration policy is the best in the world? It's not, we allow anyone to come here. Anyone. Read up on the 1965 and 1990 Immigration Act. No country on earth has done this to themselves by changing their entire ethnic group for no reason whatsoever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBRuA7H6IGM
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Jovita-Mendez-San-Diego-Immigrant-Passes-US-Citizenship-Test-Despite-Barriers-452171623.html

>> No.12101702

>>12101658
>representation
But this term is primarily a component of ideology, so you're just proving my point. When I say "fairly minor importance" I don't mean to say that it's not important and should be ignored. However, in all of the highest level subjects in politics and sociology together, people's ideologies are at the center of discussion, and it has to be that way given the current technologically driven powers we have granted ourselves.

>What on earth is good about being more diverse?
What is good about segmenting corporations into various departments each with their own management and facilities? Because more complex organization enables one to achieve more complex goals and greater power.

>> No.12101761
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>>12101702
Which way do you think non-whites vote, exactly? There is no amount of persuasion to get them to vote Republican, they will always vote Democrat despite Republicans being the ones that gave millions of illegals legal status and has said they have family values across the board. Funnily enough, when Reagan legalized them all, California never went red again.
>What is good about segmenting corporations into various departments each with their own management and facilities?
False equivalence, a corporation isn't a nation and time and time again non-whites in the US hate the Constitution, hate the Founding Fathers, and even hate free speech. They do not hold American values, what does someone from Mexico know about being American? What does someone from America know about being Mexican? Is this really a free and fair "Democracy" when you can just import entire groups of people to vote how for your party to achieve complete victory?

>> No.12101794

>>12100284
>>12100281
>implying this isnt a really solid, honest recommendation

>> No.12101815

>>12101761
>Which way do you think non-whites vote, exactly?
Does it matter? I already acknowledge that our ethnicity (and more importantly, our genes) play a role in how we think. What I disagree with you on is your designation of ethnicity as the most important factor in the nation's decision making process because the nation is too complex to make that the most important deciding factor.
>False equivalence, a corporation isn't a nation
But do you see the parallels I was drawing for you? Each department has managers which will think a certain way that is appropriate for the department's function. Lower level managers will not understand what the higher level managers understand, and they don't need to in order for the entire operation to continue. Each department's function plays a key role in the corporation. This is not diversity in the sense that you are using it, I think, but at the same time I'm not seeing you acknowledge the importance of having a unity of different departments for a corporation, and consequently not for a nation in a post-structural world either.

>> No.12101833
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this is one is a fun little read

>> No.12101854
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>>12101815
>Does it matter?
Considering Sanders and Ocasio are the leaders of the Democratic Party and actually want Leninist Socialism, yes. That is concerning. Because their only solution to our problem is to just keep pumping money into our broken system and neither of them even know where they're going to get their money from. So yes, it does matter politically because while both parties are absolute cancer, Democrats want to accelerate things to a whole new level.
>But do you see the parallels I was drawing for you?
Yes, I see them. They're all doing it for the corporation, so if you view the corporation as a nation, they're working to fulfill the goals of the country to make it as prosperous as possible but since corporations aren't nations, and we see the finer details such as people mainly having these jobs so they have some money, that idea gets thrown out the window. Whites in the US want to help the whole of the country, Latin Americans just want to import more of their own kind and establish this country as an extension of the one they just left, blacks just want more welfare since they're lazy, entitled pricks, and Asians are just hanging out doing their own thing but still voting Democrat.
Your problem, is you can't see the consequences arising from completely changing the country to be something new entirely. You believe that if this country was founded by Chinese that spoke Hindi and followed Islam as their religion, then we'd still have those Christian, Puritan,Calvinist, and English values this nation was founded on.

>> No.12101927

>>12101854
I wasn't asking how it mattered politically. I was asking how it mattered to this discussion between us. You're preaching to the choir when you go on about how ethnicity and genetics play a role in how we think. I was never arguing that these things don't play a fundamental role there.

What you seem to be downplaying is the fact that the structure of society is and has always been heavily influenced by the state of technology and that the structure of society influences how we think as well. My argument is that ideology is of number one importance to us today because modern technology makes it a requirement to be so. Most Americans today identify with their ideological group rather than their ethnic group. Ethnicity actually plays a lesser role than genetics when it comes to influencing how we think.

>Your problem, is you can't see the consequences arising from completely changing the country to be something new entirely.
I can see the consequences. But as technology changes, it becomes necessary to make changes. Civilization has been evolving for thousands of years because of new technologies arising. A social structure that places ethnicity at the top of its decision making process will not be sustainable anymore given the current technological system we are working with.

>> No.12101990
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>>12101927
Yes, ideology is important, I don't think I made an argument against it, I made an argument it's not just ideology. The creator of Singapore, who created the country to be racially diverse admitted that the different groups would vote for different things because Civic Nationalism is the belief any race can have a singular national identity. Except the United States was not built as a multiracial and multicultural country, quite the contrary, it was established as a singular race and singular culture like the overwhelming majority of countries on earth, just look at the Naturalization act of 1790 signed into law by President George Washington which established the country as a country of white people. If a country wants to be racially diverse, let them, but don't make a false belief that the US is one when it's not and never was until our politicians changed it without our consent in 1965. The America my parents and grandparents grew up in is gone, and the America my children will grow up in will be more different than mine and their children's America is going to be even more foreign in every scope. Ideology isn't the only thing that makes up a nation.

>> No.12101994

>>12100269
das kapital

>> No.12102120

>>12101994

But carl marks was a NEET who never had a job and killed four hundred billion people in the goulash ark of the covenant

>> No.12102722

>>12101990
>Except the United States was not built as a multiracial and multicultural country
Are you aware of the number of new technologies that have emerged and world events that occurred since the United States was founded? Because you seem to gloss over all of it with this statement. The changes in this country, like any country, have been incremental and based on numerous influences, all natural. There's no single policy change that ever led to a complete overhaul of the country.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Americans who are having trouble locating their identity today need to stop looking at the past and start paying attention to what today's strongest and most successful Americans are focused on. Do some searches on best selling books on Amazon in the non-fiction categories like business and finance, science / medicine and technology, etc. as a starting point for this, perhaps.

>> No.12102754

Death of a Salesman. unironically.

>> No.12102768

>>12101629
von Neumann is much like Tesla in that internet retards overrate his accomplishments out of all proportion to pretend that he was some kind of forgotten superman

>> No.12102769

>>12102722
>all natural
Having 60 million legal immigrants and illegal aliens in our country is natural? This is the highest it's ever been. I'm not doubting the rise of technology and medicine, what I'm saying changing the face of the country isn't a fucking good thing. Japan is still 99% Japanese, same with Korea, the majority of Europe is still 96% European and have always been racially European and their sub ethnic group for tens of thousands of years. All the progress of technology, machinery, science, medicine, social reform, etc., all the greatness of Europe was done when they were literally 100% white and 98% white, practically homogeneous in every facet of society. So why is it that Western countries HAVE to get with the times and be multiracial but places like China can continue to grow and advance ethnically homogeneous? Where's the logic in this?

>> No.12102774
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12102774

>>12102769
That's the entire population of Italy just hanging out in our country

>> No.12102780

>>12102769
Not that Anon but China actively exterminates its minorities. Of course they're homogeneous.

>> No.12102803

>>12100669
>An American is a someone who is northwestern European
>Except these two groups of northwestern European origin don't count.

Try to be more consistent with that bait buddy.

>> No.12102809

>>12102803
Still doesn't change the fact we were founded by northwestern European ideals. Some of them, anyway.

>> No.12102827

>>12102809
You need to sharpen your reading comprehension skills.

>> No.12102835
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12102835

>>12102827
And you need to learn some history, guy.

>> No.12102837

It's funny how right-liberals complain about immigrants from Germany and Ireland ruining America while lauding the British, the most innately left-wing ethnic group in existence, who cannot even CONCEIVE of anything outside of Liberalism.

>> No.12102850

>>12102769
>Having 60 million legal immigrants and illegal aliens in our country is natural?
Duh. It wouldn't have happened if it wasn't. I'm not saying we should just let the chips fall as they may, though.

>Japan is still 99% Japanese
That'll probably change soon, given that Japan is right behind the US culturally speaking.

>So why is it that Western countries HAVE to get with the times and be multiracial but places like China can continue to grow and advance ethnically homogeneous?
We aren't cultural equals with China. We have different goals and different needs than they do. China is hardly "growing" and "advancing" too — yeah, they are making money, but what are they doing with it besides spending a ton of it on installing cameras and paying staff to monitor their own citizens, making inferior quality rip off products, and providing even more cheap labor for other countries?

I'm against importing immigrants for any reason other than for the economic benefits. But I don't believe we are importing immigrants for any other reason. The media telling people that we do it for cultural reasons is just the media softening the blow for the little people. The real reason is always economic.

>> No.12102857

>>12102837
>the most innately left-wing ethnic group in existence
Out of Europe that would probably be Scandinavians, out of the world, niggers are the most left-wing

>> No.12102869
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12102869

>>12102850
>I'm against importing immigrants for any reason other than for the economic benefits
Oh, so you're a Jew who wants to better the lives of fat cats rather than the average American who doesn't benefit, at all, from immigration.

>> No.12102871

>>12102850
>yeah, they are making money, but what are they doing with it besides spending a ton of it on installing cameras and paying staff to monitor their own citizens, making inferior quality rip off products, and providing even more cheap labor for other countries?

the US is literally poising the entire world with liberalism and you're bitching about China making shitty products. the absolute state...

>>12102857
Brits are more left-wing since they came up with it in the first place. Scandinavians are brainless automatons.

>> No.12102883

>>12102871
Liberalism of the past does not mean the same thing as today.

>> No.12102886

>>12102883
There is total continuity.

>> No.12102887

>>12102869
Money always flows up, even the founding fathers knew that.

>>12102871
My point is that China shouldn't be a reference in terms of national success.

>> No.12102909

>>12102887
It's a success relative to the US, whose existence and prominence are a world-historical tragedy.

>> No.12102913

>>12102909
>It's a success relative to the US
Culturally? Not at fucking all.

>> No.12102919

>>12102913
Yes it is. Everything about American culture is bad, so even the modest contributions of China make it superior.

>> No.12102921

>>12102887
Money isn't the only thing that defines a nation. Some things are worth more than an extra dollar.

>> No.12102929

>>12102919
You don't know what you're saying, you self-hating retard. China is a nightmare.

>> No.12102934
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12102934

>>12102913
>USA
>culture
US is a giant Jewish rebranding and commodification machine that has literally never produced anything authentic and culturally valuable.

>> No.12102935

>>12102919
>Everything about American culture is bad

Wrong

>> No.12102936

>>12100478
I came here for this and it still made me smile.

>> No.12102944

>>12102913

American culture is just consumerism and being retarded.

>> No.12102945

>>12102929
China is a nightmare for China. The US is a nightmare for all mankind.

>>12102934
Not true, it was evil before there were even Jews there. It was something far worse - it was British.

>> No.12102948

>>12102929
>self-hating
I doubt he's even American.

>> No.12102954

>>12102948
Only an American could hate America as much as me, I'm afraid.

>> No.12102959

>>12102954
Even if you live here, you obviously aren't one of us even remotely.

>> No.12102968

>>12102959

Shut the fuck up, you stupid ham.

>> No.12102971

>>12102959
I'm legally a citizen of the economy under the jurisdiction of the United States government, that's it. It is the same for any other "American", as America is not a country, but an economy.

>> No.12102982

>>12102971
But culturally you aren't American at all if you're saying absolutely retarded shit like China is culturally superior to us. If you love that creatively barren shithole so much fuck off and go live there.

>> No.12102994

>>12102982
>culturally you aren't American
There's no such thing as American culture. Belching Star-Spangled Banner with Bud Light fumes while watching men in plastic armor grope each other for 3 hours is not culture.

>> No.12102998

>>12102994
>straw-manning this hard
not even American, but Anon...

>> No.12103000

>>12102994
>There's no such thing as American culture.
Please just fuck off to China. No one wants degenerates like you here.

>> No.12103002

>>12102982
America is worse than creatively barren, it actively outputs and promotes shit. If only America were creatively barren.

>> No.12103007

>>12103000
No one wants American culture anywhere and yet there it is. At least the Chinese leave you alone on that front.

>> No.12103009

>>12100269
Mobu Dick
Leaves of Grass
JR
The Tunnel
Gravity's Rainbow
Nine Stories
Winesburg, Ohio

>> No.12103011
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12103011

>>12103000
>hurr degenerate
Finally, American culture in its full splendor.

>> No.12103033

>>12103002
>>12103007
>>12103011
He writes, on an American website, using an American invention (the non-Chinese controlled internet).

>> No.12103037

>>12103033
>who cares if we caused a global moral-cultural holocaust, we invented the intertubes!
Peak America.

>> No.12103044

>>12101761
fear

>> No.12103049

>>12103037
>global moral-cultural holocaust
Fantasy born from sitting in your bedroom for 10+ years straight. Which is certainly a lifestyle resulting from American culture, but which is by no means an accurate depiction of anything happening in the world today.

>> No.12103054
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12103054

>>12103033
>technology is culture
Bravo, Nolan.

>> No.12103057

>>12103049
You're so Americanized you can't even see how disastrous the existence of America is.

>> No.12103061

>>12103044
Fear of what? What's the scariest thing Republicans before Trump ever proposed? Fucking nothing, on the contrary they wanted to pass the Gang of Eight bill. Hell, not even Trump is extreme, all he wants is for the Americans to be replaced legally.

>> No.12103065

>>12103054
Culture evolves via technology and technology is a byproduct of culture.

>> No.12103081

>>12103065
No and no.

>> No.12103106

>>12103061
Fear of gibs being cut off, obviously.

>> No.12103109
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12103109

>>12103081
Wow, convincing post you have there.

>> No.12103137

>>12103109
No more or less so than yours.

>> No.12103151

>>12103137
I at least stated what I consider technology to be. You didn't even do as much. Don't even respond if you're going to be an ass to this degree.

>> No.12103215

>>12103151
It's irrelevant what you consider it to be, it's not some esoteric philosophical private language term that needs explicit definition and there's no reason to actually engage in this pseud semantic game other than you lacking and coherent argument for topic at hand, so lets skip that altogether. The same forces that drive technological progress in US are directly responsible for erosion and devolution of the national cultural plane into nothingness. Yes, the spheres of technology and culture do intersect and affect each other in a number of ways, but their cumulative progress is not a zero-sum game and stating "but muh arpanet" in response to completely fair observation of extremely poor state of american cultural landscape is supremely retarded.

>> No.12103297

>>12100269
Moby dick is the most important book in all new world literature

>> No.12103324

>>12103215
>It's irrelevant what you consider it to be
What I consider it to be is what anyone healthy and powerful throughout all of Western civilization's history has considered it to be, which is why what has happened throughout history is what I said before: cultures have evolved via technology, and new technologies have been produced as cultures were elevated. So on that note, it's irrelevant what you have to say about any of this, at all.

>The same forces that drive technological progress in US are directly responsible for erosion and devolution of the national cultural plane into nothingness.
It has not been driven "into nothingness." It is alive and well. Put some real effort into searching for it and you will find it.

>> No.12103334

>>12103324
The US national-cultural plane isn't nothingness. Nothingness would be a big improvement, instead, it's an anti-culture.

>> No.12103340

>>12103334
>it's an anti-culture
All culture is anti-culture from the standpoint of weaker cultures.

>> No.12103392

>>12103324
>What I consider it to be is what anyone healthy and powerful throughout all of Western civilization's history has considered it to be
And you don't actually define it after this pompous polypo tirade? Saying how technology relates to culture is not defining technology mind you, big brain bubbaleh. And repeating your empty mantra is not actually substantiating it. Guess it must be all that culture overburdening your mental faculties that hampers you from grasping these truths.
>nuh-uh
Not an argument. Commodification and fetishization is literally the only cultural processes taking place in American society as they're the only ones that benefit the proverbial shareholders. You're a wasteland filled with Porg action figures and intersectional free-bleeding novels, where any and all genuine sincere artistic and intellectual pursuits are judged solely on the basis of their marketability. As someone else has pointed out, US is but a giant economy unburdened by any authentic cultural plane of its own beyond routinely indoctrinated faux patriotism and consumerist obsession. And what's even more scary that now it cultivates morons like you that sincerely believe that this is the natural and right state of a society.

>> No.12103464

>>12103392
What do all technologies have in common? They are all tools. They are all designed to be used. We consider them to be improved when they are re-built to be more easily usable or capable of greater or more uses. This is not merely a utilitarian view of technology, it is how technology has always been defined and understood; "the expression of skill / craft" is what technology literally translates to from Greek. The quality of being usable and being used for achieving something is an inherent part of its definition, and that's what a tool is to us — something that we use to achieve something.

The wheel is a form of technology. It could only have been invented once we understood enough about geometry and physics and had the practical tools and resources to properly build a sturdy one. Once the wheel was invented, guess what happened? Carts were eventually made to be equipped with them. When carts with wheels were invented, guess what happened next? The ability to transport goods across larger stretches of land in less amount of time and with less labor required became possible. When that became possible, guess what happened? Well, for one thing, the market certainly changed. People could trade with merchants from farther away more frequently and more affordably, or perhaps buy things they couldn't gain access to at all based on their geography. This is just one example of how technology was a byproduct of culture and how culture evolved via technology. This is how it goes for all technologies which become successfully adopted at a widespread scale and all cultures which come in contact with said technologies and are smart enough to utilize them or copy those who are already utilizing them effectively.

As for your comments about American society, we're definitely not perfect. But we're still superior to China culturally and the world over has become a bit American in the past ~70 years, not the other way around, because the world over has adopted our technologies more-so than we have adopted the world's in that time span.

>> No.12103474

>>12103464
You're just making excuses for the fact that American culture is immensely harmful by saying that you invented things. Non-Americans could've invented them, too. The world would be a better place if America had never existed, culturally and morally. Americans should look with shame at the spread of their culture.

>> No.12103483

>>12103474
I'm not "making excuses" so much as I'm trying to explain to you how American culture was not only a natural occurrence but what everyone was gravitating towards since the beginning. The utter dominance of the single most powerful culture across all lesser cultures is what humanity wanted. Civilization has ALWAYS been a matter of "if you can't beat us, join us." Those who didn't join us aren't here with us today and we ARE the ones who beat the others.

>Non-Americans could've invented them, too.
Then why didn't they? You can't answer this. What happened is all that could have happened; nothing else could have happened, otherwise it would have.

>> No.12103486

>>12103483
American dominance is like the barbarian conquest of Rome. They held power, but brought about a dark age, because American culture is barbaric.

>> No.12103497

>>12103486
What's so dark about the age?

>> No.12103500

>>12103497
Liberalism, mostly, which America is the embodiment of.

>> No.12103534

>>12103464
>he literally does not understand the difference between culture and technology and readily conflates the two
I don't even know what's more pathetic: the above mentioned or the fact that you felt the need to type out grade school explanation of technological progress as if it's in any way insightful or argumentative. Again, bubbah, America is a technological paragon and a cultural wasteland. Being technologically advanced does not somehow magically compensate for lack of any genuine cultural substrate in your society.

>> No.12103551

>>12103534
>noting their vital relationship means conflating the two
Also, if we really were a cultural wasteland, would we have produced as much loved art as we did in the past ~70 years?

>> No.12103559

>>12103551
Nobody loves American art except degenerates, it was forced on the world at gunpoint or promoted by the CIA. America is a cultural wasteland, just accept it.

>> No.12103600

This won't give you some secret key to understanding America, it's just some (not all) stuff I feel is essential to find your feet. This doesn't even reach the 20th century, and barely touches on most of the country
>Nonfiction
Federalist Papers
Anti-Federalist Papers
Democracy in America
The Rising Glory of America
The Puritan Ordeal by Andrew Delblanco
The Republic for Which It Stands by Richard White
The Flowering of New England by Van Wyck Brooks
Patriotic Gore by Edmund Wilson
Paulding's Life of Washington
Malone's Life of Jefferson
Lots of writing by Jonathan Edwards, Library of America has a good edition
The Internal Enemy
Nothing Like it in the World

>> No.12103612

>>12103559
I suppose you think all our technology including computers, software and websites were "forced on the world at gunpoint" too, right? What on earth happened to you to make you this way, anon? Besides America of course since that part is a given.

>> No.12103631

>>12103612
There's more to culture than science you barbarian. All that other stuff, America destroys while touting its own superiority.

>> No.12103643

>>12103631
Who said there wasn't more to it? And you wouldn't have modern computer technology or the internet or various websites you no doubt use regularly without America.

>> No.12103654

>>12103643
This is hopeless. I'm trying to tell you that American culture has utterly destroyed standards in art, literature, music, etc. and that Americans should view their country with shame and disgust, and you're just replying with "but you're writing that on a computer lmao".

>> No.12103657

>>12103631
Communists and Muslims destroyed more culture than America ever did.

>> No.12103671

>>12103657
Wrong.

>> No.12103680

>>12103654
You say destroyed, and in some ways you're right, you where you're wrong is in the underlying claim that nothing has been introduced to replace what was lost. Everything introduced you're dismissing as just being degenerate. Well, that makes you no better than some old irrelevant fart who doesn't get it anymore.

>> No.12103683

>>12103551
>noting their vital relationship means conflating the two
It doesn't, but astonishingly you seem to think that the former is sufficient to justify the latter.
>would we have produced as much loved art
You wouldn't and you haven't. You're churning out pulpy mass-produced lowest-common-denominator slop. Occasionally a rare genuine talent might just happen upon one of these purely commercial endeavors and transform it into something artistically worthy and that's about it. The greatest American contribution to the sphere of art was Uncle Andy declaring everything to be art to have some means to fuel his Adderall addiction. Deskilling, total aesthetic relativism and fetishization of fucking commodity objects are the only thing America has brought to art. US is a nation of automatons living to work and service the Capital. You have no actual culture.

Actually this >>12103654 You seem to genuinely be retarded and unable to comprehend that cultural and technological spheres exist in parallel and aren't subsets of each other. I'm going to sleep. Fuck niggers, fuck jannies and fuck you in particular.

>> No.12103691

>>12103683
>US is a nation of automatons living to work and service the Capital
This. Americans are not human.

>> No.12103721

>>12103671
>communists
>completely banned traditional culture and destroyed historical artifacts/works/art/buildings except for some secretly kept by the gov't

>Muslims
>Destroy Library of Alexandria
>Chop off heads of people who don't believe in their religion
>Destroy all works of art
>Appropriate churches for use as mosques

>> No.12103727

>>12103721
America does worse, it perverts these instead of destroying them outright. America also bombs you for failure to adhere to post-Calvinist Progressivism, destroys all works of art and replaces them with degenerate crap, and appropriates churches to give diversity seminars. America is worse than Communism and Islam combined.

>> No.12103732

>>12103683
You're just butthurt that America has more cultural influence than whatever shithole country you live in.

>> No.12103738

>>12101854
>Considering Sanders and Ocasio are the leaders of the Democratic Party
What?
>and actually want Leninist Socialism
Actually terrible bait

>> No.12103741

>>12103732
People should be butthurt at America having culture influence at gunpoint, because its culture is bad, yes. I'm sure you'd be butthurt at Muslims taking over America and imposing Islam on you, so how do you think the rest of the world feels?

>> No.12103745

>>12103721
The greater middle east is an intellectual and cultural basket case. inb4 someone gets his feelings hurt and lectures me about muslim scientific achievements from 1200 years ago.

>> No.12103749

>>12103732
>can't defend the degeneracy of his orc society
>HAHA BUT WE SPREAD IT SO EFFECTIVELY

>> No.12103757

The only thing these threads ever tell me is that Americans are obviously deranged. Constant psued posting and a complete lack of understanding of history and politics. These threads essentially go full /pol/ within a few posts. America has no right to exist

>> No.12103772

>>12103757
Americans have no history so they can't understand it. They aren't people, they have no culture, they are just economic units under the jurisdiction of the USG maximizing their utility functions by consuming the next marginal unit of a given commodity.

>> No.12103796

>>12103683
>You wouldn't and you haven't. You're churning out pulpy mass-produced lowest-common-denominator slop.
Assuming you're European, you actually have a European who disagrees with you. He goes by the name of Alex Kierkegaard.

>You have no actual culture.
If we have no culture, why do you keep going on about how it's been forced on you?

>> No.12103801

>>12103796
Because America IS forcing non-culture on Europe. You're American so you can't understand this since you are so immersed in non-culture.

>> No.12103830

>>12103801
What the fuck is "non-culture" in this sense? How do you force such a thing? All I'm getting out of you so far is that it isn't culture simply because it's not yours, which is making you appear quite psychotic at the moment.

>> No.12103837

I have such a fun time in threads that shit on Americans. They're stupid, can't refute any of it, and it's just hilarious. They shit on everyone else horribly and it's just perfect when they get shit on.

>> No.12103853

>>12103830
You'll never be able to get it because you're American. Americans just don't have the spark of life inside them so they can't understand what it means when people say they spew anti-culture.

>> No.12103880

>>12101658
>No country on earth has done this to themselves by changing their entire ethnic group for no reason whatsoever.
To be fair most white countries outside of Eastern and Central Europe have done this. We did it because we thought we needed cheap labour.

>> No.12103885
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12103885

>>12103853
>Americans just don't have the spark of life inside them
You're right. We have it inside you, pushing your shit in as we speak, hence your eternal frustration itt.

>> No.12103897

>>12103885
>>12103885
This is like a Muslim celebrating the destruction of Buddhist statues or burning the Library of Alexandria.

>> No.12103909

>>12103897
It's not like that at all considering mudslimes are uncivilized morons that produce nothing of value for anyone these days. inb4 "b-but you don't produce anything of value," you've already stated this nonsense, and nobody gave a shit when you did it then because it's obviously bullshit that only complete retards believe.

>> No.12103935

>>12103909
>It's not like that at all considering mudslimes are uncivilized morons that produce nothing of value for anyone these days.
American culture not only produces anti-culture, it also promotes third-worldization that will actively destroy the only thing they can do, as in, build technology. The net contribution is a negative one, so they're worse than Muslims really.

>nobody gave a shit when you did it then because it's obviously bullshit that only complete retards believe.
But everyone agrees with me, Americans aren't people so they don't count, if you disagree you're obviously American.

>> No.12103963

>>12103935
Dude, just shut the fuck up. You go on and on and no one cares. How many times do people itt have to explain to you how completely wrong you are?

>The net contribution is a negative one, so they're worse than Muslims really.
I mean, really, this shit just better be a troll. If you're serious, I'm honestly concerned, because you seem to think unbelievably absurd shit that no one sane thinks, not to mention there's no way one could adequately function in this day and age and think all the shit that you seem to. Americans have no problem receiving criticism but this shit isn't criticism, it's just vile, resentful garbage coming from no doubt an extremely ugly person.

>> No.12103973

>>12103963
I care about what he said, you jewish puppet.

>> No.12103986

>>12103721
>Destroy Library of Alexandria
>Chop off heads of people who don't believe in their religion
>Destroy all works of art
>Appropriate churches for use as mosques

Sounds kind of like early christianity

>> No.12103988

>>12103973
>Jewish puppet
Of course that's what this is all about. You fucking flakes really have a one tracked mind.

>> No.12103989

>>12103986
>Whataboutism

>> No.12103993

>>12103963
>not to mention there's no way one could adequately function in this day and age and think all the shit that you seem to.
Except for the whole non-American world who hasn't already been subhumanized by American influence?

>Americans have no problem receiving criticism but this shit isn't criticism, it's just vile, resentful garbage coming from no doubt an extremely ugly person.
America needs forcible quarantine, not criticism. Criticism implies the possibility of correction, Americans are inherently non-human ahistorical anti-cultural economic units acting in such a way as to maximize consumption, they inherently cannot self-reflect or correct, as even the possession of a "self" by Americans is questionable. It must be sealed off and allowed to destroy itself until the land can be reclaimed in a few centuries before it destroys mankind.

>> No.12103994

>>12103989
That was my first reply to you

Just saying that early christians were a bunch of retarded dindus too.

>> No.12104020

>>12103993
Other countries are already destroying themselves. Even with US out of the picture, whatever problems these countries are facing will still remain.

>> No.12104029

>>12103994
At least the Christians changed, the Muslims didn't. They're still chopping people's heads to this day.

>> No.12104032

>>12104020
They're destroying themselves because of the US, who has enforced a harmful ideology on them at gunpoint after conquering them in WW2. Not content to destroy itself, America is determined to take the rest of the civilized world with it.

>> No.12104049

>>12103830
>What the fuck is "non-culture" in this sense?
Data-driven commodified gimmickry carefully designed by marketing committees of transnational corporations with the sole purpose of capitalizing on animalistic proles and generating maximum RoI over a business cycle and complete lack of any genuine artistic intent or consideration for cultural value. American "culture" is McDonalds putting traditional cafes out of business by selling latest localized version of dehydrated HFCS buns stuffed with frozen hormone-filled meat. It's cinemas screening Men in Tights 46 for 5 weeks and local auteur films for 3 days. It's radio broadcasting a Colombian teenager say "my bitch love do cocaine" and "gucci gang" 20 times. You're literally a state of cultural terrorists that will stop at destroying nothing as long as it brings a dividend bump to your Jewish overlords while they keep feeding you the endless propaganda about muh freedumbs and le best country in the world.

>> No.12104055

>>12104049
The irony is that not only do Americans have no freedom to act in any way other than to maximize profits for their corporate overlords, but their country is also the worst to have ever existed in history.

>> No.12104118

>>12104049
>Data-driven commodified gimmickry carefully designed by marketing committees of transnational corporations with the sole purpose of capitalizing on animalistic proles and generating maximum RoI over a business cycle and complete lack of any genuine artistic intent or consideration for cultural value.
And how is that non-culture, exactly? Etymologically speaking, "culture" is linked to agriculture, or the process of cultivation. Culture is an emergent attribute of humans coming together to achieve something. What you just described is exactly that.

By the way, if you want a better, and at the very least non-retarded, understanding of what American culture is, read Baudrillard's America, which is still relevant today.

>> No.12104128

>>12104118
>Culture is an emergent attribute of humans coming together to achieve something.
And Americans aren't humans, so your copout doesn't count.

>> No.12104141

>>12104128
Why aren't we human? Because we're dominating you culturally?

>> No.12104148

>>12100482
Brazil just learned how to read last year, let them have their fun

>> No.12104161

>>12104118
>Etymologically speaking, "culture" is linked to agriculture, or the process of cultivation
AMERICAN EDUCATION
LMAO

>> No.12104168

Emerson’s essays are essential. Without them, there would be no American lit—no Whitman, no Melville, no Hawthorne, no Dickinson, no Twain, and on and on. Great stuff in their own right, too.

>> No.12104171

>>12104141
America was consciously founded on a rejection of a shared history, tradition, society, etc. which are foundational to being human, and a replacement of that with seeking "liberty and prosperity". America was founded on churning out non-human economic units lacking any of the aforementioned traits and thus incapable of producing a culture in the sense that any civilized society would recognize. Americans are tool-using apes.

>> No.12104172
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12104172

>>12100269
This is a really awful thread. Frederick Jackson Turner's frontier thesis essay should be required reading for every American, pic related.

>> No.12104192

>>12104161
From Latin cultus, “I till, cultivate”. This is what a Google search for the etymology of the word culture brings up at multiple sources. If you have a source that says otherwise please share it because I'm always enthusiastic about learning something new.

>> No.12104206

>>12104171
You have no idea what it means to be American, no surprise you’re European, you wish your country could dominate the world as much as we do. And by the way, we have more faith in God than any of the small, polished atheist shitholes in the Balkans or something.

Fuck off Eurocunt go binge on KFC like londonfrog and sit down on your couch in your flat with your office job where you sit on your ass all day not actually doing anything, and not meaning anything.

>> No.12104216

>>12104206
Americans' only God is money. Joel Osteen is the quintessential American.

>Fuck off Eurocunt go binge on KFC like londonfrog and sit down on your couch in your flat with your office job where you sit on your ass all day not actually doing anything, and not meaning anything.
Cope.

>> No.12104223

>>12104216
We have more faith in God than any European country.

Cope.

>> No.12104233

>>12104206
>You have no idea what it means to be American
Does a human understand what it means to be a chimpanzee?

>> No.12104240

>>12104233
Is the human European?

Then no, unfortunately

>> No.12104246

>>12104118
>Culture is an emergent attribute of humans coming together to achieve something.
Precisely. While most societies strive towards collective well-being, understanding the human condition and spiritual self-improvement, Amerigolbins are literally only interested in increasing cash flows and profit margins to feed the Jewish Moloch. Servicing the capital is their entire raison d'etre. The once meaningful inspiring words of Founding Fathers are nowadays nothing but a facade used to rationalize most hypocritical misdeeds. You are not humans come together to achieve something, you are creature come together to cheat, rob and con each other, to turn misfortunes of others into personal gain, worse yet, to create those misfortunes in the first place. You're tearing each other to bits and taking the world with you, broadcasting this perverse extreme form of degenerate materialism whenever you go. All of this to the tune of some grotesque rationalizations of this bizarre lifestyle and rampant ape-like chest-beating over the fact that you manage to spread this disease so skillfully.

I mean look at this thread. You've been presented with countless factual arguments regarding the quality of national American culture, and yet instead of engaging in argumentative discussion, you're screeching about "dominance" as if the fact that you can smear your feces over a dozen of church ceilings in the time it took Michelangelo to finish Sistine Chapel's somehow implies you being a greater artist. Wake up, you pitiful creature. Wake up and move somewhere else for a while. Maybe you'll finally get what it's like to be a human and not soulless automaton.

>> No.12104251

>>12104246
>The once meaningful inspiring words of Founding Fathers are nowadays nothing but a facade used to rationalize most hypocritical misdeeds.
The words of the Founding Fathers were never inspiring. There is complete continuity between Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, etc. and modern America.

>Maybe you'll finally get what it's like to be a human and not soulless automaton.
Not possible for Americans, I'm afraid.

>> No.12104257

>>12104246
>It's not X if I don't like it
Why is this at the core of every one of the arguments you imbeciles come up with? You people can't understand words and concepts for shit.

>> No.12104262

>>12104206
>You have no idea what it means to be American
I mean marinating your brain in anti-depressants, taking on 200lb of extra weight and $200k of unserviceable debt is not that hard, anon.

>> No.12104294

>>12104251
>The words of the Founding Fathers were never inspiring
They were metaphysicians. The crafters of the United States constitution knew their forwards and backwards around Aristotleian Metaphysics. I could point you to particular Federalist Papers even showing you this.

Their logic was fascinating. They knew what lay before them: an opportunity the likes of which befell few others before them, Darius and the other 6 who overthrew Astyages might have known this feeling: the feeling of setting before yourself a new government for a new destiny of billions of people and lives, something that no one has yet since, or may never again, feel.

>> No.12104298
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12104298

>>12104262
No one is laughing anon

>> No.12104312

Americans aren't human

>> No.12104323

>>12104298
>phoneposter
>thinks a Hungarian who got American passport at 34 is American
Everyone is laughing at you, brainlet.

>> No.12104329

>>12104323
He didn’t develop an atomic bomb for Hungary.

No one is laughing at anyone in this thread. /lit/ is a relatively serious board, if you want to be a little shiteater with nothing to do, go on over to /tv/ or /pol/

>> No.12104346

>>12104329
>He didn’t develop an atomic bomb for Hungary.
So? How is that at all pertinent to discussion?
>/lit/ is a relatively serious board
Oh, sweaty, it's your fresh-off-rebbit honeymoon period. So cute.

>> No.12104365

>>12104346
I’m guessing you’re 22, max.

Neumann was a team player that’s what it means

>> No.12104371

>>12104365
>no actual answer to question
>appeal to age for some reason
Wow, that reddit remark really hit the spot, didn't it.

>> No.12104375
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12104375

Great thread, definitely peak /lit/

>> No.12104380

>>12104371
Do you are equal to or less than 22?

>> No.12104383

>>12104375
Benjamin Franklin was a filthy atheist

>> No.12104387

>>12100269
>The Pilgrim's Progress by Bunyan
This and the Bible (which you should also read, but take your time) were virtually the only two books that existed in mass circulation in colonial America.

>The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin
A classic story of a young man pulling himself up by his bootstraps in a virgin land!

>The Constitution
It's not long; read it. For bonus points, read the Federalist & Anti-Federalist Papers

>Tocqueville, Democracy in America
A continental European perspective on what was going on in America once it had gotten into gear

>The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Washington Irving
>Young Goodman Brown, Hawthorne
>Leaves of Grass, Walt Whitman
>Tales of a Wayside Inn, Longfellow
>The Scarlet Letter, Hawthorne
>The Last of the Mohicans, James Fenimore Cooper

These, in decreasing "necessity", are representative of pre-Civil War American literature. Irving was basically the first American writer of any note; Whitman the first poet. They, Cooper, and Hawthorne all preserved the colonial perception of "America" as a foothold of civilization on the edge of a wilderness frontier. Longfellow (who wrote later) represents the America that would emerge after the Civil War as a "mature" nation; in "Wayside Inn" the colonial and revolutionary eras are firmly seen as a mythical past era.

>Narrative of Frederick Douglass
Slavery and black people are an important part of American history and culture. If you want to read one contemporary account, this is it.

>Grant's Memoirs
The Civil War, from the Horse's Mouth

>Huckleberry Finn
The South was it was.

>Moby-Dick
Quite likely the greatest work of American letters. No, it isn't easy.

>The Influence of Sea Power on History
You don't really need to read this unless you're interested in the subject, but it is the first American contribution to military thought.

>> No.12104392

>>12104380
I'm 26.

>> No.12104393
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12104393

>>12104171
>America was consciously founded on a rejection of a shared history, tradition, society, etc. which are foundational to being human
The origin of America was more like "fuck you idiots, we can do this shit better," and then we did, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

>> No.12104397

>>12104387
>were virtually the only two books that existed in mass circulation in colonial America.
Mmm something doesn’t check out here. Maybe they were the only ones in circulation but the colonialists were EXTREMELY well read and wooded adventurers.

Tocqueville talks about traveling and meeting Americans in the woods with a packed library full of European authors and everything. Sure the literacy rate wasn’t superb back then, but the Americans who had money read more than they do now.

Otherwise great post

>> No.12104399

>>12104393
Except they did "being human" worse than any other society up to that point, on the best plot of land in the world, with disastrous consequences for the human race.

>> No.12104413

>>12104387
Thank for this good post, going to check out The Influence of Sea Power on History.

>> No.12104422
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12104422

>>12104393
>The origin of America was more like "fuck you idiots, we can do this shit better,

>> No.12104439

When do we nuke America and how do we get to the bombs?

>> No.12104476

>>12104387
>Frederick Turner Jackson, The Significance of the Frontier in American History
Very difficult to understand America in the 20th century without understanding of this thesis. At least read the Wikipedia page.

>William Faulkner - Barn Burning
This will give you a pretty good idea of what Faulkner, the quintessential writer of the American South, was all about. Note: Faulkner does not get hung up on the Negro Question, which will be addressed separately.

>F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
Fitzgerald's novel of a WWI veteran of immigrant background trying and ultimately failing to make a new start in the city (previous generations would have gone West) is a pretty good story in its own right, but indirectly portrays America's shift from a frontier state to a great power. If you're an American, you probably read this in high school.

>Steinbeck - The Grapes of Wrath
Steinbeck is a novelist of the post-Wild West. East of Eden, Tortilla Flats, (shortest) Of Mice and Men are all acceptable alternatives.

>James Baldwin - Go Tell It On The Mountain
If you only read one book about the black American experience in the first half of the 20th century, read this.

>> No.12104487

>>12104397
Tocqueville was writing in the 1830s. "Colonial America" is pre-Revolution, fifty years before Tocqueville. While obviously other books existed and circulated in certain families/communities, in the first half of the 18th century (and before!) those books were absolutely about the limit of "common public knowledge" of literature, and this becomes more true the further back you go.

>> No.12104593

>>12104476
>WW2
I don't like Catch-22. However, if you want to read more or less contemporary American fiction about the war, read that. I'd instead recommend either E.B. Sledge's With The Old Breed or Charles MacDonald's Company Commander for a down-in-the-dirt post-facto account of WW2 that also reflects the popular imagination of the war.

>A Perfect Day For Bananafish, Salinger
>The Catcher in the Rye
Catcher captured the nascent transformation of childhood in America, unfortunately it's difficult to fully appreciate without more substantial knowledge of Salinger's corpus. "Bananafish" gives a little bit better idea of what Salinger, perhaps the greatest American short story writer, was about.

>Butcher's Crossing, John Williams
The Old West took several generation to filter up through pulp writing after the frontier closed (this is a complex subject). Regardless, this is the quintessential Western novel, written with consummate literary skill.

>The Right Stuff, Tom Wolfe
How Americans went to the Moon -- and then...
>The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, Wolfe
what happened afterwards

>The Crying of Lot 49, Pynchon
Both one of the best and most accessible examples of an American postmodern novel.

>The Quiet American, Graham Greene
An American tries to export American exceptionalism. It doesn't work.

>Beloved, Toni Morrison
This is an excellent example of post-Civil Rights black "high culture" literature. If you're posting here you probably won't like it, but if you want to understand this part of the American experience then muscle through it.

>Good Old Neon - DFW
Post-Cold War literature in a 41-page nutshell.

>Americanah by Chimamanda Adichie
You may not like it, but this is what peak carpetbagger-resentment literature looks like. Armed with knowledge of the previous entries to include a taste of actual Black American literature, you will be fully equipped to identify this novel as the narcissistic trash that it is. If you really hate black people too much to download it off of libgen, you can always read The Namesake by Jhumpa Lahiri; it's the same novel with a few words find-and-replaced.

>> No.12104635

>>12104476
>Note: Faulkner does not get hung up on the Negro Question, which will be addressed separately.
what does this imply

>> No.12104741

America saved the world from Communism. Libtard Europoors may not respect that considering what the leftists like Merkel and Macron have done to their once beautiful countries but never forget who maintained, and will continue to maintain world order.

>> No.12104957

>>12104593
Where is Blood Meridian?

>> No.12105665

>>12104957
These are basic recommendations. A lot of important authors and works were left off.

>> No.12105787

>>12103837
This guy thinks no one recognizes him

>> No.12105988

>>12104206
>>12104216
>>12104223

I'm American and I'm going to have to side with the Eurofag on this one. America is basically run my atheistic hedonists and most regular Americans have followed a similar Godless path.

>> No.12106014

>>12105988
There is no godless path.

>> No.12106028

>>12105988
You have no idea how atheistic Europe is

>> No.12106052
File: 21 KB, 500x333, 1424113686342.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12106052

>>12100466
>3 to 10 hours per week in average

I refuse to believe this. No fucking way the average person spends this much time reading. Either that or there must be a considerable number of people in each of these countries raising the average by reading 100 fucking hours per week

>> No.12106203

>>12106052
maybe they just didnt include people who dont really read

>> No.12107229

>>12100701
Actually, this.
And Madison Grant too.

>> No.12107239

>>12100466
What the fuck do they read in China?

>> No.12107244

Bryce: The American Commonwealth
see review here: https://oll.libertyfund.org/pages/bryce-on-america

>> No.12107253

>>12106052
>reading for an hour a day +/- 30 minutes is unbelievable
where do you live

>> No.12107263
File: 30 KB, 333x499, cuntbook.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12107263

>>12107239
pic rel

>> No.12107293

>>12107253
Perhaps not unbelievable for you, but if you think that's the norm for most people you must be locked in your echo-chamber

>> No.12107295
File: 498 KB, 799x580, xi_jinping_thought.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12107295

>>12107239
>>12107263
Pic actually rel

>> No.12107308

>>12107253
>Tfw only half the Italian population reads one book a year

>> No.12107369

>>12100705
it's handy for wiping their arse

>> No.12107394

>>12107293
It is the norm for most people. Try not living in third world shitholes like US.

>> No.12107401

>>12102934
Werner Sombart put it that:
"Americanism is nothing else, if we may say so, than the Jewish spirit distilled."

>> No.12107406
File: 33 KB, 320x445, 51H88jagtTL._SY445_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12107406

>>12102945
>China is a nightmare for China. The US is a nightmare for all mankind.
just you wait, son.

>> No.12107465

Evola on America:
https://www.juliusevola.com/julius_evola/writings/reader.html?text=american_civilization.txt
https://evolaasheis.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/negrified-america/

>> No.12107552

Mason & Dixon

>> No.12107563

Ew what's with all the polshit in here, gross

>> No.12107846

>>12107406
>>12107406
Chinese worldwide rule would be a mercy. We need an anti-American revolution to utterly destroy all American "thought" and "art" and purge it from the annals of history. A ban on English may be necessary.

>> No.12107887

>>12107846
I did not say the contrary.
read Somerset Maugham's piece, The Philosopher.
But bear in mind conflating the cunt communists with anything traditional is seriously wrong, not to mention subversive.
Then again, I know Chinese, and wouldn't miss Engrish all that much, maybe I'm perfect collaborator material, who knows?

>> No.12107892

>>12107887
also forgot to add, Ku Hung-ming's piece Uncivilized United States.

>> No.12107893

>>12107887
>But bear in mind conflating the cunt communists with anything traditional is seriously wrong, not to mention subversive.
That's okay, it's better than America.

>> No.12107899

>>12107893
you haven't lived there, have you?
I have. I haven't been to the US, but still.

>> No.12107909

>>12100269
Moby Dick
Rendezvous with Rama
America, The Farewell Tour
Green Eggs and Ham

>> No.12107912

The US is a third world country

>> No.12107924

>>12107846
>Chinese worldwide rule would be a mercy.
Yeah let's trade a dumb entertainment culture for a full-on dictatorship and the most corrupt government on Earth

>> No.12107935

>>12107924
Dictatorship is superior to democracy.

>the most corrupt government on Earth
The Chinese government is corrupt, America corrupts mankind itself and subhumanizes it. To call American culture merely dumb entertainment vastly understates the harm it causes.

>> No.12107968

>>12107935
American culture is bereft of tradition and hurts only Americans. The imperialistic diplomacy of the neoliberal and neoconservative class that truly wrecks the planet has little to do with American culture, unless you call American culture Capitalism.

>> No.12107986

>>12107968
Imperialistic, evangelical diplomacy has everything to do with American culture.

>> No.12108007

>>12107986
The evangelical talk from politicians in Murica is used to dupe the retards into doing things the retards don't actually want. I would agree with you if you said that the culture of greed and the uncontrollable amassment of power by the ruling class was the toxic culture you are talking about. Though if you are talking about the culture of being simple and retarded, I'm sorry to disappoint you but that culture isn't localized to the shitstain of the North American Continent, it's human nature.

>> No.12108018
File: 22 KB, 320x500, Moloch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12108018

>>12107968
>hurts only Americans.
False.
See Karlheinz Deschner's Der Moloch for an interesting analysis.

>> No.12108022

>>12108018
Germans brought us the Reformation, so if anyone has no right to complain about barbarism, it's them (and the British).

>> No.12108037

>>12108022
>if anyone has no right
why does this argument sound redolent of negro and feminist dismissals of anything emanating from the now-proverbial "white, cis, male", regardless of its own inherent value?

>> No.12108039

>>12108018
You can't sum it up in a paragraph? Do you expect me to read that entire book(I assume it's a book) and come back to this thread with my rebuttal? Come on /b/ro wtf just swing at me with your own shit.

>> No.12108067

>>12108037
Because you're replying to an underage poleddit ebyn memester.

>> No.12108071

>>12108039
not going to sum that book up, no.

but to return to your point, differentiating "culture" from neoliberal or neocon politics, I see the former as being some sort of soft power supplementing the latter, since the US has now virtually imposed its crap coca cola consumer culture almost everywhere else, especially in other English speaking countries, so much so that they may as well be the 50-somethingth states of your godforsaken Union.

>> No.12108106

>>12107968
>bereft of tradition and hurts only Americans
That's not true though. American culture is not only devoid of genuine traditions, it actively seeks to destroy them. In much the same way business giants employ the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish strategy on potential threats, so does the ever hungry god of American degeneracy employ the Integrate, Fetishize, Commodify tactics to anything that doesn't fit in with the behavioral model of rational free market actor. American culture is essentially anti-humanist. Seeking to transform society into most effective capital generation and maintenance machine at the expense of everything else. As it were it actually is the Landian fanged noumenon.

>> No.12108163

>>12108071
First off thanks for writing your own argument.
Second, yes I agree with you about everything you said. Consumerism is a cancer and it has infected the Australias, Canadas, and Britains too. Last time I was in France I was sad to see it sprouting its seeds there too. My distinction is that this vile and, for lack of a better word, f a k e culture comes from the top down, not the bottom up. It was bestowed on us Americans like your boss burdens you with a load of steaming turd-tier micro-managed projects(I'm losing my impartiality), I mean I don't think it is innate in Americans to be the way they act now. Living here you feel like a slave with the amount of corporate propaganda forced into your life from the TV, the Radio, the billboards, the stores, the cell phone apps, etc. It is inescapable, and when you try to save yourself from it the people around you who are still infected cling to you to draw you back into hell.

I am not forgetting the fact that these offending groups are also made up of Americans, but the people who working in them are swept up and fed with the nonsense probably more so than the projectile-farting populous. The entire incentive structure is backwards, family is a word that means nothing, money and status are the most important thing in life, and they(the puppeteers who can't see the giant hand up their own ass) will never let your forget how worthless and pitiful you are to be what you are. This last sentiment is only felt by those who experience disgust and emasculation when they are pitied, because after all that is what they do to us, they pity us. The goofy ads with the smiling interracial families, the feel-good movies, the mindless ""empowering"" pop music, see. "This Girl is On Fire", and the dopamine tripping, seizure inducing phone games. They pity the masses and offer them treats for being good boys. Well I'm no fucking dog (not to disparage dogs), and I won't be pitied.

I think I got off topic there but what I am saying is that the culture of consumerism is a completely post WW2 phenomenon, or maybe post 1950s.
Maybe you're right though, the garbage I see here has always been here, and is a symptom of the life on the frontier, maybe. That being the case I think the people here are ignorant of it and unwittingly prefer another way of life that they have never known.

TL;DR: ALJShdkahhhh WEEEEEE OOOOWNNN PEW PEW PEW. BOOM!!! SHALAKAAKAKALA oksdbhfushdf CARA SDAOSDJN RACE CARlnasjdn FYCJ CFUCKFUCJFUCKFUCKFUCK

>> No.12108196

>>12108163
Thanks for your own reasoned reply. Makes a change from the usual tripe. I do feel sorry for the handful of sane remaining Americans of European descent.

>> No.12108226

>>12108106
>American culture is essentially anti-humanist.
Imagine thinking this is a bad thing. Humanism is a joke. You have to be less than human to identify as a "humanist." Strong people produce strong moralities based on their natural instincts and have no need for "traditions" and -isms to feel connected.

>> No.12108252

>>12108226
I can't tell if you were being ironically humorous or just another underage halfwit.

>> No.12108254
File: 389 KB, 1600x1200, 1538045749168.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12108254

>>12108226
I agree with this, but what of the weak people? Until we morph into the AI hivemind we will ALWAYS have weak people, these people need the -isms and traditions to hold up our society (this is something the Chinese seemed to have figured out).

Come to think of it, even the sane people use -isms for morality, in our case it's just autism.

>> No.12108301

>>12108106
>That's not true though. American culture is not only devoid of genuine traditions

I'm going to pile on with >>12108163 and say that American culture as of 2018 being a consumer borg is historically contingent, and it didn't have to be this way. If you even sample some of what e.g. >>12104387, >>12104476
recommends you will literally be able to see a high culture developing. It's gone, of course.

This is going to sound a little bit /pol/, but I somewhat agree with this guy (https://jacobitemag.com/2018/05/03/the-american-question/) namely:

>Every time people begin to really put down >roots, every time the long, slow, arduous >process of ethnogenesis starts to take place, >America remembers her ideals and recommits >to the experiment. Another wave of immigration >rolls in; another country is invaded and >“democratized,” either militarily or by >“non->governmental organizations”; another >generation is born into the “new normal.”

except that I DON'T believe that it HAD to be this way. Non-consumer American culture didn't die, it was killed. And surprise surprise, the people who killed it want more because that's their motive force. Yeah, there was a pretty strong mercantile streak in historic America, but so there was in the Dutch and they didn't wind up pozzing the entire world.

Honestly it really was the Boomers who did us in, in a nutshell. And specifically in hindsight the 1965 Immigration Act was the lance buried in America's gut; sepsis is well underway.

>> No.12108323

>>12108254
>but what of the weak people?
Most of them are content in their weakness and lead busy lives, but still find enough happiness to get by. It's only the ones who have been taught to hate themselves who aren't finding any happiness in modern life and then go on to complain about "Jewish overlords," "American capitalists," etc. Basically, they are resenting other people for having more power than themselves, even though this is simply how the natural order has distributed power and broken everyone down. Ironically, a lot of them seem to identify as Christian but don't behave like good Christians in the slightest, because they clearly resent God's will.

>> No.12108383

>>12108301
>Boomers

The source of all our problems

>> No.12108424

>>12108383
Basically yes, although it's a little more complex than that. A lot of Boomers were literally not old enough to vote in 1965, for instance. When America started getting high off its own supply after WW2, it wasn't Boomers who should have been the adults in the room. However I don't think it's really questionable that they could have turned the ship around even if they didn't set its course.

I will say that the man who did the most damage to America, and therefore in the running to be one of the worst statesmen in the history of the world, was LBJ, a man who for all his faults was not a Boomer. Perhaps Anglo-Texan culture deserves to die for producing him.

>> No.12108456

>>12104476
> If you only read one book about the black American experience in the first half of the 20th century, read this.

Why not Pimp by Iceberg Slim?

>> No.12108464

>>12100668
It’s textbooks mostly on medicine or languages and libraries in java

>> No.12108499

>>12108424
Are you so harsh against LBJ for Vietnam, or did he do some other atrocious shit I don't know about? Also Nixon and Reagan (but more so Reagan), totally finished what this country ever head in my opinion.

Also what blame do you levy on the people, like how was that dyke Reagan ever elected?

>> No.12108508

>>12106052
i read the whole newspaper today took me 15 hours

>> No.12108520

>>12101478
even worse: he was an anti-zionist

>> No.12108535

>>12108456
Well, for one thing Baldwin is a much better writer. Aside from his style this also means that his writing and GTiotM in particular details more aspects of black American life in the early 20th century than Slim does. He's also got a pretty extensive corpus, so someone who reads GTiotM and likes it has more to check out. AND, he's a faggot, so if you're interested in American faggotry you've got that angle as well -- a twofer.

If I were making a list of essential Black American literature, or other more narrow criteria, I absolutely would put Pimp on there, but I it doesn't make the cut for a broad-level recommendation posted on 4chan.

>> No.12108541
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12108541

>> No.12108584
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12108584

>>12108508
>getting literally cucked out of your time by "news"papers

>> No.12108587

>>12108541
kek

>> No.12108621

>>12108499
The Great Society was worse than Vietnam. Imagine that Vietnam had played out exactly as it had but that the Great Society never happened, or had gone differently. America would have become a bit less interventionist without committing seppuku.

This includes:
The Civil Rights Act, which essentially abolished freedom of association.

The Voting Rights Act, which required unrestricted universal suffrage, something understood to be a reductio ad absurdum of democratic principles since Aristotle at least.

The legal basis for almost every stupid thing that happens in the United States in 2018 (BAKE THE CAKE, "of course felons should be able to vote, how dare you ask them for identification") has identifiable roots in something that LBJ signed.

I would say that the election of Reagan (who made his name as a fucking film actor, signed the first no-fault divorce law in the country, and started the ball rolling on the mestizo volkswanderung into paradisaical California before being elected POTUS) is the beginning of unquestioned Boomer responsibility.

>> No.12108629

>>12100284
The Turner Diaries

>> No.12109318
File: 443 KB, 1900x1425, MUNKEY.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12109318

>>12108621
Well that's interesting.

From my estimation you listed the few decent things those presidents ever did. You didn't mention the fact that Reagan allowed companies to buy back their own stock, or that Nixon removed us from the gold standard, or that Reagan ballooned the homeless population from almost nothing to over 2 million via his retarded policies. He also traded weapons and money for hostages, which led to more people being taken hostage, and worse than all of this is Nixon's and Reagan's war on drugs, which ballooned the prison population, strengthened the cartels, and increased the occurrence of lethal overdoses for decades to come. Also his hair-brained trickle down economic strategy DID NOT WORK at all.

You point to muh Aristotle's argument against democracy as reason for why we should make it near impossible for poor black people to vote. This is pretty ridiculous, we aren't going to have the "philosopher king" he wanted,
so I don't understand how theoretically Aristotle would be ok with democracy so long as you show some I.D. and minorities can't participate. Though even if he did, he would be dead wrong. I'm sorry but I'm not sure what to rebut
here as I think your argument is that blacks are inherently stooopid and shouldn't vote cuz dey not responsible n sheeit. An opinion straight outta /pol/ that I see often underdeveloped, as I see here.

I am perfectly fine acknowledging the difference in IQ between groups, but I don't believe that the majority of these people are not capable of basic logic and sound reasoning which is all that is required to vote.
Frankly, those qualities are lacking in the majority of the "White" electorate as well, which I think you will agree with.
I plainly do not know what you mean when you say, "Mestizo Volkswanderung into Paradisaical California." I assume this has to do with Reagan allowing in a lot of Mexican immigrants... well that would be the fault of the drug war,
which empowered the cartels in Mexico who kill thousands of civilians there every year, so I am really not surprised they would want to leave.
As for a no fault marriage, I think you are attacking this from a position of wanting to preserve the nuclear family, but I think that concept was fucked from the start. Anyways allowing people to freely exit their marriages is NOT the reason for the high divorce rate, there is something fundamentally FUCKED without culture which drives women and men to become unstable in these relationships.
Just think about it /b/roski, that's like being mad at monkeys for trying to break out of the zoo, when instead you should strive for a situation where the monkeys want to stay in the zoo and are happy there instead of just jailing them in?
I know it's a stupid analogy but it works and I wanted to include monkeys. Pic related.

>> No.12109409

>>12109318
>You didn't mention the fact that..
I didn't say those were the ONLY bad decisions they ever made.

>muh Aristotle
The Founding Fathers, along with every political theorist ever that wasn't simply a naked demagogue, believed that in order for democracy to work, the electorate had to be informed and actively participate in political life. Now, there's room for debate over what that means, and reasonable people can disagree. But the point is that "everybody with a pulse is allowed to vote" doesn't work. Historically, such policies were associated with terminal dysfunction and mob rule; in modern practice, it simply means that effective governing institutions route around electoral politics (for instance, the increasing power of the judiciary and civil service).

The problem isn't that blacks (by which you mean all blacks as a category) shouldn't be allowed to vote. The problem is that because a larger proportion of blacks than whites are basically unfit to have a "voice" in government i.e. power -- by virtually any definition you wish to use -- any electorate formerly consisting of X whites that has now added Y blacks selected at random will make worse decisions for the same reason that the Supreme Court + 3 randomly selected 18-year-olds would most likely make worse decisions than SCOTUS as it currently stands.

EVEN WORSE, the exact philosophy used to defend this, "disparate impact" (i.e., that any emergent discrepancy in treatment or outcome is the result of deliberate bigotry) is both obviously false and incredibly powerful. Its use was not long confined to Negro issues.

>I don't believe that the majority of these people are not capable of basic logic and sound reasoning which is all that is required to vote.

The quality of decisions made by an electorate isn't binary, it's a continuum.

>I assume this has to do with Reagan allowing in a lot of Mexican immigrants... well that would be the fault of the drug war, which empowered the cartels in Mexico who kill thousands of civilians there every year, so I am really not surprised they would want to leave.

First of all, Mexican dominance of the drug trade including associated violence is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back then, Colombia dominated the market. Most of the violence in Mexico in the 1980s was political in nature, and arguably a result of a combination of population pressure and an ineffective government that eventually discovered it could avoid reform by encouraging its citizens to settle in El Norte. Second, there isn't some law of nature that if you wage war in another country (which in this case, by the way, consists of assisting local governments in suppressing violent organized criminal enterprises) you're now required to accept unlimited amounts of settlers from said country. Unless you want to argue that the California of 2018 is better off than the California of 1968 as a result of twenty million or so Mexican settlers in which case, be my guest.

>> No.12109441

>>12109318
>As for a no fault marriage, I think you are attacking this from a position of wanting to preserve the nuclear family, but I think that concept was fucked from the start.
Why? The nuclear family worked extremely well for several hundred years. What alternative do you have in mind?

>Anyways allowing people to freely exit their marriages is NOT the reason for the high divorce rate, there is something fundamentally FUCKED without culture which drives women and men to become unstable in these relationships.

We differ here. Do you think there is a CONNECTION (perhaps you disagree on the causality) between easy divorce and

>there is something fundamentally FUCKED without culture which drives women and men to become unstable in these relationships.

It's true that many men and women enter into marriage either foolishly, or have bad luck. But so what? No-fault divorce isn't the only prong of the attack on the nuclear family, but it's a pretty big one. I mean, just the most obvious: do more people get divorced now, or pre-NFD?

In reality, NFD is a major component of a radical redefinition of the family in which, basically, a "family" consists of a woman, her children, and a coterie of government bureaucrats. This model, which was deliberately designed to facilitate compliance to a totalitarian state, aside from being a basically evil, doesn't fucking work.

>> No.12109571

>>12109409
>I didn't say those were the ONLY bad decisions they ever made.
But you said they were the worst decisions they ever made, or among the worst. I was pointing out that I think there were far worse things they did that made the issues you brought up relatively benign.

>"everybody with a pulse is allowed to vote" doesn't work
Of course I want an informed electorate, but if you try to enforce that by just allowing the "smart" people to vote is a slippery slope. Firstly because "smart" becomes "educated," and "educated," becomes "wealthy," and soon we would be left with the government made up of the upper class only allowing other upper class people to vote. I don't think you support this, but I think that is inevitable if you enter the territory of pulling civic rights from certain people. It's also pretty silly to be concerned with how a few million uneducated people will effect the elections when MOST PEOPLE DON'T VOTE ANYWAYS. Literally 51% of people didn't vote in the midterms, the mob doesn't give enough fucks to rule. A bigger concern is how greater forces manipulate people's votes.

Also I forgot to respond to:
>"of course felons should be able to vote, how dare you ask them for identification"
Well you seem to have two different issues here, 1. Yes all nonviolent criminals ought to have the right to vote, they go to prison to pay for their crime, when they're out, they're free. Also if you allow people who have made mistakes to actively participate in the system again they don't feel as alienated from society, and the recidivism rate goes down. 2. Voter ID laws are dumb, they are said to be put in place to prevent people from voting twice but that's such a trivial issue, especially considering that most people don't vote anyways, voting sucks, who the fuck is going to stand in line TWICE and be at the polls all day to make no difference in the election whatsoever.

>The Mexicans
You seem to know more about this situation than I do, so I won't get into specifics, but:

>there isn't some law of nature that if you wage war in another country you're now required to accept unlimited amounts of settlers from said country.
Well, this literally is a law of nature. If you blow up people's homes, they are going to move. If you fuck up people's homes who happen to live right next to your country it would be foolish not to expect them to come search your country for a place to live.
Now, you don't "have" to accept settlers from that country, but again, the United States is somewhat of a democracy, and most of the voters did not want to go fuck up the Mexican's lives in the first place, and Mr.President doesn't want to look bad by destroying a country and then telling everyone in it to fuck off and die when they come for assistance.

I've never seen 1968 California, but I live in 2018 California, and things could be better, but we started the problem and I like taking responsibility when we fuck up.

>> No.12109613

>>12109441
>Why? The nuclear family worked extremely well for several hundred years. What alternative do you have in mind?
I'm not going to pretend like I have any big ideas on this point. I admit I can't single-handedly think up a solution to interpersonal/intergender communication, at least not tonight. Though my point still stands, keeping people trapped in marriage in the solution. Just because less people divorced, doesn't mean more people were happy. I'm willing to bet just as many people hated their marriages but could do nothing about it so they suffered and waited for death to escape.

>Do you think there is a CONNECTION (perhaps you disagree on the causality) between easy divorce and underlying problems with marriage
No

>a "family" consists of a woman, her children, and a coterie of government bureaucrats.
Yes, you are talking about the epidemic of fatherlessness in America. It is horrible, and fatherless children are almost always fucked. You could argue that perhaps parents should just tough it out in their shit relationships to raise these children, and maybe it would be less harmful society on the whole, but im skeptical of that and at that point you are just trading on issue for another. Also you have to account for all the children who are born outside of marriage, for these cases the NFD has no bearing over. I think what we need is a change in our culture that is less liberal with sex, and more responsible with child rearing, and quite honestly if you are a pregnant single mom just abort the baby before putting it through absolute misery and destroying both the child's and mother's lives(most likely).

Now you can argue that offering the option of abortion for women makes them act more freely with the men they sleep with, and more likely to get knocked up and kill the child instead of trying to raise a family. I could see this except even with the option available there are still tons of single moms who shit their babies out knowing there is no father. This is absolutely stupid, and the blame goes on men as well for being so careless.

>> No.12109798

>>12109571
>Of course I want an informed electorate, but...slippery slope...
Well conceivably there could be a slippery slope in restricting the franchise. There's a definitely-real slippery slope in expanding it though.

The expansion of the franchise is an entropic process, like your car's engine performing worse at 150,000 miles than at 15,000. It is not the only such process affecting governments, but neither is it the least important. Out-of-control expansion of the franchise in a democracy, historically and in classical theory, results in the cessation of said democracy. I believe that the present state of the US is evidence of this proposition, but we don't need to belabor the point.

Do you think that American democracy functioned poorly before, say, the ratification of the 19th Amendment? If the franchise was restored to the state of, say, 1890 modulo a few allowances for the descendants of slaves, do you think the quality of American government would be better, or worse than today? I believe it would be better, although you could certainly identify particular individuals and organizations who would be worse off. But that's just like, my opinion.

If you share the typical modern concerns about the plight of the Negro, I would note that the American Republic c. 1860 fought and won a catastrophically bloody and destructive war over the issue. Would the America of 1960, or 2018, have done the same?

>all nonviolent criminals ought to have the right to vote

I didn't mention anything about nonviolent criminals. Should serial rapists have the right to vote? A man sent down the river for a few decades for murder or somesuch, he's free in his mid-40s, should he be allowed to vote? He's paid his debt to society, after all. If he didn't vote, perhaps he'd feel alienated and kill someone again. If your answer is "no", aren't you worried about a slipper slope? You start disenfranchising murderers, next thing you know you're preventing robbers and Congressmen from voting.

>Voter ID laws are dumb, they are said to be put in place to prevent people from voting twice but that's such a trivial issue, especially considering that most people don't vote anyways, voting sucks, who the fuck is going to stand in line TWICE and be at the polls all day to make no difference in the election whatsoever.

Well, which is it? Is voting no big deal that doesn't make any difference, or is it something so important that every single breathing human being within the borders of the United States has a paramount positive right to do it? Is it purely symbolic? If so, what are you worried about? If not, what's wrong with the same level of quality control that 7-11 uses to sell Natty Light?

>> No.12109832

>>12109571
>If you blow up people's homes, they are going to move.

Which Mexican homes, exactly, did the United States "blow up" in the past hundred years?

>most of the voters did not want to go fuck up the Mexican's lives in the first place

Most of the voters in California voted to deny Mexican settlers the use of the public purse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187.

As you'll see if you'll scroll down, this vote was overruled on the grounds that the federal government had sole jurisdiction over matters relating to immigration. How's that working out, by the way?

Fortunately, a rematch of Proposition 187 has no chance of passing. Which brings up:

>A bigger concern is how greater forces manipulate people's votes.

I agree. And one of the means by which these "greater forces manipulate people's votes" is by altering the composition of the electorate. "Electing a new people" is the usual term.

>Mr.President doesn't want to look bad by destroying a country

Which country, Mexico? I urge you to acquaint yourself with the history of Mexico, and of Latin American in general. Certainly the United States has done things unworthy of its ideals. But I think you'll generally find a suspicious gap in between these actions and the mass movement of peoples across the southern border.

>we started the problem and I like taking responsibility when we fuck up.

You're reasoning backwards. You see something bad happening, and assume you ("you") have done something to deserve it. What problem did the United States start, and in what manner does the the settlement of a hundred million or so mestizos within its territory allow it to "take responsibility" for this problem?

>> No.12109849

>>12102780
>Not that Anon but China actively exterminates its minorities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China

>> No.12109871

>>12109613
Believe what you want about California, the movements of the peoples, and the history of Mexico. But please, I beg you, do some research on the points I'm about to bring up.

>You could argue that perhaps parents should just tough it out in their shit relationships to raise these children, and maybe it would be less harmful society on the whole, but im skeptical of that and at that point you are just trading on issue for another
>the epidemic of fatherlessness in America. It is horrible, and fatherless children are almost always fucked.
>Also you have to account for all the children who are born outside of marriage, for these cases the NFD has no bearing over.children.

Well, I'm telling you: there's a tradeoff between not enforcing marriage contracts and fatherless children.

The high and rising rates of bastardy are absolutely the result of the legal and cultural environment. Contraception and abortion are more readily available, more effective, and the average person is more knowledgeable about them than at any point in all of human history. And yet here we are. Pretend I'm right. Pretend that American family law regressed over a twenty-year period to the dark days of 1950, when the United States was a relative backwater. Out-of-wedlock births ("fatherlessness") fall from their current levels to twice the rate of 1950 (somewhere between 5-10%). You think some people would be less happy than under the current regime. Would it be worth it? What if that's what it takes? Because spoiler alert, it is.

>> No.12109918

>>12109832
>I think what we need is a change in our culture that is less liberal with sex, and more responsible with child rearing, and quite honestly if you are a pregnant single mom just abort the baby
>This is absolutely stupid, and the blame goes on men as well for being so careless.

I'm going to outline the traditional understanding of marriage in the Western world, a portrayal of a (in my opinion dysfunctional) primitive matriarchal alternative, a description of the current regime, and then offer some comments of my own.

>Marriage in the civilized world
Marriage exists to allow for the propagation of the race, for the preservation of wealth, for the constructive expression of sexual desire, and for the socialization of both adults and children. It imposes both rights and duties on both parties. Both parties are duty-bound to be sexually exclusive to each other, and in return have a reciprocal right to sexual access. They are responsible for raising any children which result from the union. The specific terms of this contract are generally codified in law, although in general terms they are well-known to predate any extant government, indeed of government itself. In recognition of this, there are a variety of verbal oaths which must be repeated in public, in the presence of at least one authority figure and preferably in front of as many as possible.

In the event the terms of the contract are breached, there exist guidelines to declare the contract null and/or invalid and award damages to the injured party.

>The glorious matriarchy
Women are strong and independent. A woman who puts in a reasonable amount of work can feed herself and any feasible number of dependent offspring, often through a combination of tending a garden and foraging.

Because men like to ejaculated in warm orifices, and women like taking that dick, women frequently become pregnant by men. Men are responsible for feeding themselves, but this takes very little work, especially given that men are stronger than women. As a result they tend not to do much -- a little bit of fishing and hunting in the morning perhaps, followed by a day of hanging with the boys. Women find them irritating if they hang around, doing nothing, too long. As a result of this and other factors, men tend not to be very involved in the lives of children, who are generally left to fend for themselves, particularly once they reach puberty.

>> No.12109923

>>12108629
based

>> No.12109939

>>12100717
muh Founding Fathers

>> No.12109955

>>12109918
>What we have now
Two people repeat a traditional oath, or not, in front of an approved witness. That this oath has no binding effect is widely understood within the legal profession. At any time and for any reason, either party can terminate this contract, if that term can be used. In most jurisdictions, the higher earning member of the union is understood to have a duty to continue providing the lower earning member the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed; this duty entails no reciprocal rights. The idea that marriage imposes a mutual right of sexual access is considered a crime against humanity on par with slavery and the waging of wars of conquest.

If a woman with a child divorces her husband, she is immediately free of any vestigial duties to her husband. However, she still maintains the right to a certain portion of her former husband's earnings. In theory, this money is to be used for the proper rearing of her children; in actual fact no such obligation exists as a matter of settled law. An extensive network of legal, bureaucratic, and paramilitary services, including debtors' prison, exists to collect these payments and takes a cut of the transmitted funds.

Of course, a woman doesn't need to be married in order to make a claim to the father's money -- as the result of a 1968 court ruling, the mothers of bastard have the right to such a claim. It has since become a matter of settled precedent that the burden of proof lies on the reputed father to disprove this claim.

The difference between this and the female-gardener example is the existence of a state apparatus which extracts value from a man outside of marriage and transfers it to women.

>Comments
Men and women have antagonistic sexual strategies. Marriage is a solution to a resulting coordination problem, and is part of the larger coordination problem that is "civilization". The female-gardener society is what happens when no attempt is made to solve this coordination problem (fun fact: these societies often have an "elite" that actually gets married. Spotting this in anthropological accounts is a fun diversion if you run across such accounts). The current regime is basically an attempt to maintain a marriage-based society based on female-gardener standards of behavior. It won't work. It isn't working.

>> No.12109979

>>12100347
>Americans can read?
>is on an american board
>where mostly Americans write
>where Americans made a /lit/ board

at least make an insult that will make sense you idiot.

>> No.12110464

>>12109849
they make them dress up and sing and dance for Han tourists, then trumpet their benevolence to the world.

>> No.12110852

>>12109979
>seething
Americans are about 50% of 4chan traffic, and I'd wager it's less than half of that for /lit/.

>> No.12111082

2bh I think you could have a more intelligent conversation with a monkey than an American

>> No.12111117

>>12100466
A*glos just can't into reading

>> No.12111131

>>12110852
You may be correct, you might not. But one thing is for sure: the level of retarded atheism increases during Eurotime hours.

>> No.12111135

>>12100668
It's mostly newspaper and science & coding books. Print media is still at large in India. Also, young/teen girls read YA shit

>> No.12111644

>>12111135
>Print media is still at large in India.
do they use the paper to wipe their brown bums now instead of scraping their holes with their left hands?

>> No.12111651

>>12111131
>atheism
>retarded
Go pray to your cloud wizard and his Jew son.

>> No.12111862

El gobliño

>> No.12111870

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Bin Laden's 'letter to America'

>> No.12111913

>>12100281
kek
t. burger

>> No.12111917

>>12100289
kek

>> No.12112574

>>12100478
I love this.

>>
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