/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12091799]

>business majors laughing at me when I tell them that I study ecology
>call me dumb for caring about reducing meat consumption (I'm toying with vegetarianism)
>tell me oil will never go away (they want to work at mid-stream oil&gas companies)
>laugh at me for being against fracking (claim that even if groundwater is contaminated it's too far under ground to matter)
>don't see a problem with rampant beef consumption or excess corn and basedbean farming, unaware of phosphorus and nitrogen cycling into gulf of mexico to create hypoxic zones
>pro-life, don't think about the implications of exponential growth on a finite planet (typical of neo-classical infinite world economists)
>claim that "technology" will extend oil reserves (nonsense their professors told them in their "business classes" (private individuals with vested interests in perpetuating oil&gas))
>>likely they do not believe this but want to drink before the lake is dry
>cannot comprehend the vast web of biotic and abiotic factors, the signals of a planetary system (will remove deleterious influences (homo sapiens)

[Anonymous No.12091834]

I like meat. I wouldn't say meat is the biggest problem related to consumption. I would rather get rid of flushing systems who uses liters of good water to get rid of a few drops of piss.

Vegetarianism is retarded.

[Anonymous No.12091835]

>>12091799
It's not just business majors who have absolutely no awareness of the vast ecological damage we're doing. I myself have sadly turned very cynical in recent months as I greatly struggle to find any people who share my concerns. Most just respond with ''I don't trust those scientists'' or ''I don't care, it's not my problem''.

How does one find people who aren't obsessed with consumerism and abstract concepts of ''success'', almost always defined in increased consumption?

[Anonymous No.12091846]

i like literature

[Anonymous No.12091853]

>>12091799
Lmao

Read some Foucault and Kuhn

Climate change is a meme

[Anonymous No.12091859]

>>12091834
oh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hackenschmidt
>He ate a predominantly vegetarian diet, consisting of fruit, nuts and raw vegetables. He very rarely consumed meat and eggs, and objected to cooked foods, as he said "the purest natural food for human beings would, therefore, be fresh, uncooked food and nuts".

[Anonymous No.12091865]

>>12091799
I don't know how ecology has become such a meme (decades of effective propaganda?). It's one of the few disciplines that forces one to become more prudent and broad-minded, and pairs well with the work of older anti-capitalist conservatives who were skeptical of progress and prioritized sustainability. There are a lot of interesting ecologists publishing books that hardly anyone reads.

[Anonymous No.12091933]

>>12091865
Got a list of these books by chance?

[Anonymous No.12091939]

>>12091933
Seconding this.

[Anonymous No.12091969]

>>12091939
Seconding this. I've been studying ecology on my own for years and the only ecology books I read be techinical books that are only interesting to a specific kind of autism.

[Anonymous No.12092088]

>>12091933
>>12091939
>>12091969
Not him but this might be interesting

[Anonymous No.12092135]

>>12092088
Hardly serious ecology from what I can tell but I appreciate the recommendation.
Another along these lines is,"the three ecologies"

[Anonymous No.12092141]

>>12092088
Morton is a literary theorist and a front for OOO, not an ecologist per se. He's more interested in philosophical conceptions of "ecology" than ecological systems.

[Anonymous No.12092424]

>>12092141
>front for OOO
What is OOO?

[Anonymous No.12092466]

>>12091799
Thanks for posting this pic I’ve been looking for it

[Anonymous No.12092707]

>>12091799
>mfw i’m a double major in economics and environmental science
>mfw kaczynski is right

[Anonymous No.12092726]

OP i agree with you but you sound like a cuck and like you need better friends. maybe i live in a liberal bubble (and i work in a "business" call it) but most of my coworkers give a shit about what you care about. move to the cities maybe and stop hanging out with frat businessbros?

[Anonymous No.12092755]

>>12092424
Oscuro's Oblivion Overhall

[Anonymous No.12092767]

Can someone please post decent books on these issues, I've already read Kaczynski and Linkola

[Anonymous No.12093215]

>>12091834
No, it's not. It reduces unnecessary suffering and is perfectly compatible with a healthy life. Vegetarians have a higher average IQ than non-vegetarians.

[Anonymous No.12093222]

>>12091799
SENTIENT
E
N
T
I
E
N
T

[Anonymous No.12093233]

I'm not even a right-wing shill but realistically they're probably more right than you are.
Life is about adapting, it's what it does.

[Anonymous No.12093252]

>>12093233
moran

[Anonymous No.12093359]

>>12091834
My problem with meat isn’t the cruelty or the methane, which are problems for sure, but the logistical nightmare of feeding cows. It’s terrible for the environment to do things the way it’s done in the US, trucking or freighting thousands of tons of hay across the country to feed cows to get freighted to another state to get slaughtered, then freighted all over the country. It makes sense economically but it’s such a massive use of energy and other resources just for my hamburger.

[Anonymous No.12093558]

>>12093233
Life does not adapt to extinction.

[Anonymous No.12093935]

>>12093215
>muh IQ

One of those academics who think he knows what's best for everyone.

Pic related would like to have a word with you

[Anonymous No.12093943]

>>12093215
They're midwits, buddy.

[Anonymous No.12093986]

>>12091835
>How does one find people who aren't obsessed with consumerism and abstract concepts of ''success'', almost always defined in increased consumption?

[Anonymous No.12094301]

>>12091853
>let me appeal to authority real quick
Could you at least provide their arguments or where they outline them in their work?

[Anonymous No.12094303]

>>12093935
Taleb "I am NOT an Arab" Nassim

[Anonymous No.12094305]

>>12093558
it kinda does.. Or at least has in the past.

[Anonymous No.12094313]

>>12093359
So you don't have problem with meat. You have a problem with production of it.

[Anonymous No.12094728]

>>12091799
Tell me op, how many of your academic peers are Kaczynski and Linkola gang and how many are homosexual "ecomodernists"?

[Anonymous No.12094737]

>>12091799
I'd be laughing at you too.
You sound like an absolute faggot.

[Anonymous No.12094739]

>>12091799
literature

[Anonymous No.12094808]

>>12091799
Read Lierre Keith's book on vegetarianism, and Sir Roger's book on the environment.

[Anonymous No.12094840]

>>12094305
No it doesnt and it can't . Mass exinction events are tragedy's. Fuck off with your babyshit pop-culture understanding of evolution. It's closer to utlitarianism than to evolutionary theory.

[Anonymous No.12094860]

>>12091799
ur dumb and think the things you know are scientific, when really there are no repeatable experiments to prove or disprove them. its your professors opinion that you're regurgitating and that isn't knowledge. you're dumber than a business major and thats saying something

[Anonymous No.12094867]

>>12094860
>There are no repeatedly experiments that show groundwater contamination, nutrients runoff/hypoxic zones, and the other problems of industrial farming.
>No repeatable experiments that show pumping oil out of the ground isnt a good idea
You're retarded.

[Anonymous No.12094880]

>>12091799
but fracking has extended oil reserves

[Anonymous No.12094886]

>>12094880
That's a bad thing

[Anonymous No.12094893]

>>12094867
>No repeatable experiments that show pumping oil out of the ground isn't a good idea
wow yeah what a horrible mistake that has been
fuckin jabroni

[Anonymous No.12094903]

>>12094893
Yea, it sucks. Roads suck, cars suck, earth moving machinery sucks. Aeroplanes and household electricity are pretty cool. Anyways, CONTINUING to pump oil out of the ground is a horrible idea regardless of it's historical importance.

[Anonymous No.12094904]

you talk in terms of long term apocryphal cycles that will in theory culminate long after we all die (from natural causes). with no evidence other than speculation and models that get revamped and reasserted each time they are wrong. why do you expect anyone to take you seriously

[Anonymous No.12094905]

>>12094903
then get off the internet you retarded hypocrite. and what the hell are you doing in college. your entire lifestyle is because of fossil fuels

[Anonymous No.12094909]

>>12094904
Hypoxic zones, soil destruction, biodiversity loss, groundwater depletion and contamination are already exterme.
You just have to step outside and you will know for sure.

[Anonymous No.12094914]

>>12094905
I'm not opie and I'm not in college. I do more than my far share, and the internet is great and I like it.
You sound like my 80 yo uncle lmao.

[Anonymous No.12094917]

>>12094909
its weird because the earth is producing more food than it ever has in its entire history

[Anonymous No.12094920]

>>12094914
your uncle is 80? hopefully you absorb some of his wisdom when you suck him off

[Anonymous No.12094922]

>>12094917
That is completely false in terms of biomass. It won't last for long.

[Anonymous No.12094927]

>>12094920
He is pretty wise. He taught me alot about running a sawmill and growing things in the garden. He's also a complete retard when it comes to things like this. Shit he watched the prairie disappear and can't even figure out why it happened.

[Anonymous No.12094935]

>>12094922
scientism with complete inability to predict the future coupled with self-righteous morality coupled with your 'doing more than my fair share' mentality

[Anonymous No.12094947]

>>12094935
Shut the fuck up. You don't have any idea about me or anything else you are talking about. Enjoy that dopamine spike, I really hope this isn't how you talk to people irl. I don't have any interest in this kind of juvenile argumentation.

[Anonymous No.12094960]

>>12094947
I don't know anything about you for sure Even that shit about your old gay uncle could be made up.
The one thing I know for sure about you is that you are posting on the internet, which requires massive amounts of power to function, about how fossil fuels are existential threats.

[Anonymous No.12094962]

>>12091834
Retard
>Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM
>Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions.
http://www.worldwatch.org/files/pdf/Livestock%20and%20Climate%20Change.pdf
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/study-claims-meat-creates-half-of-all-greenhouse-gases-1812909.html
https://gelr.org/2015/10/23/a-leading-cause-of-everything-one-industry-that-is-destroying-our-planet-and-our-ability-to-thrive-on-it-georgetown-environmental-law-review/
>Livestock is responsible for 65% of all human-related emissions of nitrous oxide –a greenhouse gas with 296 times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide, and which stays in the atmosphere for 150 years.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.htm
https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/ghg_report/ghg_nitrous.cfm
>Animal Agriculture is responsible for 20%-33% of all fresh water consumption in the world today.
http://temp.waterfootprint.org/Reports/Mekonnen-Hoekstra-2012-WaterFootprintFarmAnimalProducts.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212371713000024
http://www.pnas.org/content/110/52/20888.full
https://www.forksoverknives.com/freshwater-abuse-and-loss-where-is-it-all-going/
I could go on and give numerous more facts about land use, water consumption, ocean dead zones, deforestation, etc, etc.
You save more water being a vegan than being a street shitter

[Anonymous No.12094979]

>>12092767
Not a book but a good documentary on the subject:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zuhks
You can find sources of their claims on their website

[Anonymous No.12094983]

Why does nobody give a shit about the cruelty, is everyone really so cynical?

[Anonymous No.12095033]

>>12091799
>not wanting to accelerate the destruction of the enviroment

You are a faggot, and business chads are right

[Anonymous No.12095068]

>>12094983
I don't give a shit about crulety. It's part of being human. I grew up murdering animals, and have seen some pretty cruel shit(raccoon baiting) It doesn't feel good. I'm still pretty shaken up about this stray dog I gut shot and left to run home and die slow. I've killed dozens of stray and feral cats (all for ecological reasons) and don't feel to bad about that. I don't really feel to bad about killing fish, but I've had night herons and turtles drown in my limblines and that really hurt.
My problem is when people who don't know what it is like to kill think it's okay to eat meat, or they wear fur or leather and have never fleshed a hide in their lives.
Here in the Ozarks chicken farming is a big deal, I've been to many chicken farms to service their water Wells and I've seen some shit there. Those birds live completely meaningless lives and that's what bothers me the most, not the crulety. And the obvious unsustainablity of growing their feed off site and what happens to all the shit(unless they have a biogas digester or a proper way to use it as fertilizer) Watching hundreds of chicks being crushed under a front end loader is not okay. Feed lots are fucked up.
My problem is not with crulety, it's with the obvious ecological impacts, both from the agriculture itself, and from the lives of millions of alienated urbanites who believe their food comes from the grocery store.
>>12094960
The point is you have no interest, or ability to actually talk about these issues. I could give a shit if I'm a hypocrite, and I'm really not. ethicists tend to be unethical, anyone who studies ethics of any kind is painfully aware of the impossibility of being a wholly ethical person. The point is regardless of my own personality, these issues exist.

[Anonymous No.12095075]

>>12095068
>I've killed dozens of stray and feral cats (all for ecological reasons)
nah you did it because deep down you like killing

[Anonymous No.12095082]

>>12095075
Not really, I'm a pretty sensitive guy. I just like songbirds and rodents way more than I like cats.

[Anonymous No.12095084]

>>12093252
redort

[Anonymous No.12095085]

>>12095082
>I'm a pretty sensitive guy.
no you're not. you wouldn't kill shit if you were.

[Anonymous No.12095088]

>>12091835
This and other conversations on this board makes me wish we could make a /lit/ discord or something like that

[Anonymous No.12095096]

>>12095085
What? Lol fuck off pussy. I feel bad when I burn logs that have fungi growing in them and go out of my way not to harm insects and plants. I've literally fought someone for squishing a bug and cry very easily.

[Anonymous No.12095103]

>>12095096
yeah, and you like killing cats because you need an outlet

[Anonymous No.12095107]

>>12091799
>>>/sci/
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.12095112]

>op describes raccoon baiting as cruel
Confirmed: OP is a massive faggot

[Anonymous No.12095114]

>>12095103
I don't like killing cats. Feral cats are the biggest direct cause of anthropogenic biodiversity loss in the United States bub.

[Anonymous No.12095120]

>>12095112
I'm not op

[Anonymous No.12095125]

>>12095088
There have been attempts but they're all trash

[Anonymous No.12095148]

>>12091799
It's alright OP, we're completely fucked and it's best to just accept that. Short of an ecofascist takeover (unlikely) or a wave of understanding and compassion leading to a socialist revolution (extremely unlikely) nothing will get done and the biosphere will continue to collapse. I only hope society crumbles pretty quickly alongside it so the nightmare ends quickly.

[Anonymous No.12095163]

>>12095114
it is good you have found such a nice little justification for your taste for murder

[Anonymous No.12095165]

>>12091799
>business creeps are short-sighted sociopaths
Color me surprised.

[Anonymous No.12095177]

>>12095163
I wouldn't need anything to justify murdering a pussy like you >:^)
The only time I've actually killed something just for the sake of it was when I was 10 and my friends convinced me to blow a cardinal out of the sky for target practice. That was awful.
I dont even have the stomach to eat any of the cats I kill, and I love my pet kitties.

[Anonymous No.12095181]

>>12091834
>I wouldn't say meat is the biggest problem related to consumption.

You underestimate the impact animal agriculture has on the environment beyond simply 'le farting cows' argument.

[Anonymous No.12095190]

>>12095177
Yeah keep telling yourself that. You're a shit person.

[Anonymous No.12095196]

>>12095125
:^(

[Anonymous No.12095197]

>>12092707
How do you manage the doublethink required to pull that off, or is your econ program one of the cool heterodox ones?

[Anonymous No.12095224]

>>12095177
you remind me of those /b/tards who think they are based sociopath ubermensch for killing animals 1/10 of your size who offer basically no danger of retaliating.

[Anonymous No.12095230]

>>12095190
Letting something live that threatens to kill the things you love is not a good thing to do, it's cowardly. One time I accidentally crushed the back legs of a broad headed skink and tried to kept it alive. Too bad it died because I didn't know about lizard anatomy and axphixiated it trying to force feed it some water. That sucked. I've also allowed a coachwhip to bite the shit out of me while I was cutting it out of some bird netting it was tangled in. I even risked getting biten by a copper head by going full Steve Irwin to save it from getting shoveled.
I am a saint. All humans are murders.

[Anonymous No.12095235]

>>12095224
>Tfw when cold bolded psychopath
Books for this feel?
You are a soft ass onions boy and I have never once felt good about killing anything.

[Anonymous No.12095245]

>>12091799
business majors are sincerely retarded. Being one literally means that your parents wanted you to go to college but you were never passionate about anything and werent bright enough to be an engineer

[Anonymous No.12095247]

>>12091865
It became a meme when it got infiltrated by pot smoking anti-capitalist leftists who are indulgent, intellectually lazy, dishonest people who discredited the science.
>>12091799
OP, the fact that you cited the pseudo science that is the "Malthusian Catastrophe" immediately discredits everything you say and exposes you as the left wing dumbass you are.
>>12091834
>says meat causes too much pollution
>model vegetarian society India literally has streets full of shit, corpses in the Ganges, and pollutes far more the the West.
Vegans can go fuck themselves
>>12094840
>mass extinction events are tragedies
I see nothing tragic about the death of the dinosaurs. In fact, that example is perfectly shows how life adapts to mass extinction.

To boil down the argument of all the ecofascists in this thread
>oil is mean
>muh pollution
>but ignores PoC countries like India and China
I can't understand how any can be a leftist. It's such a hypocritical and pseud ideology. Truly it takes an edgy teen to be a leftist.

[Anonymous No.12095249]

>>12095235
I know for a fact even a 10 year old boy could beat you into submission, because you are a pussy.

[Anonymous No.12095258]

>>12095247
>I can't understand how any can be a leftist. It's such a hypocritical and pseud ideology. Truly it takes an edgy teen to be a leftist.
It is the ultimate form of fixing the minor problem at home to pretend you are great while ignoring the major problem outside.

[Anonymous No.12095260]

>>12095247
Brainlet

[Anonymous No.12095267]

>>12095148
I find it so interesting that you couple a wave of compassion and understand would lead to a socialist revolution? I think the biggest difference between right and left is that left is completely indoctrinated into their ideology. The right can meme all day about white nationalism, but the left genuinely believes that they're good people, that they're the side of compassion and understanding. That somehow it isn't a blatant contradiction to harp on and on about Western pollution but remain completely silent about the 3rd world.

This just goes to show that the left doesn't really say what they mean to say. The left doesn't advocate for the environment to invoke meaningful change, but to signal a false sense of moral superiority.

[Anonymous No.12095272]

>>12091835
Business schools propagate a noxious form of distilled capitalism where everything besides your own personal profit is an externality. The external world is treated how a psychopath treats other people.

[Anonymous No.12095279]

>tfw vegetarian for spiritual reasons just like based tolstoy

[Anonymous No.12095283]

>>12091969
Only tangentially related, but check out 'Dirt: The Ecstatic Skin of the Earth' it reads more like poetry than ecology and captures the need for sustainable (not necessarily non-corporate) farming, and the beauty of the natural world.

[Anonymous No.12095288]

>>12095247
unironic sub-80 iq post, fails to exhibit a grasp on basic logic, cause-and-effect, etc

[Anonymous No.12095290]

>>12095267
Leftists frequently advocate for third worlders and literally no one remains silent. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have EJatals, greenpeace, WWF, ect. There are thousands of leftists actually do something about problems in third world countries.
>Whataboutthethirdworld
This isn't doing anything. Nationalists could give two shits about anything that goes on outside of their country and only mention the third world for pointless whataboutisms.
How many rightwingers are traveling to the third world and spending their lives advocating for it? Zero.

[Anonymous No.12095304]

>>12095288
He also called ecofascists leftists, lmao.i wonder where that retard wandered in from.

[Anonymous No.12095305]

I would do anything and sacrifice anything for the environment. Even if it meant I would have to fly enormously wasteful planes to climate conferences to prove the danger to idiots. Even if it meant usurping the corrupt disgusting levers of capitalism to install myself in power so that real change could be made.
If I were there, I could save the planet.
As things are going, I'm not optimistic.

[Anonymous No.12095316]

>>12095267
Socialism is, at its core, a desire for everyone to be nice and cooperate in building an equitable society. The biggest non-meme argument people have against it is that people aren't like that and you need hierarchies to keep society in line. I also don't know why you think no one cares about pollution from the 3rd world, people tend to focus on their home countries because that's where they live and can actually exert political influence, but no one is pretending that this is the West's issue entirely.

[Anonymous No.12095323]

>>12095305
Does it matter? The white race - the only race that started exhibiting concern for animals and the environment - is going extinct soon.

[Anonymous No.12095333]

>>12095323
There are millions of native Americans, africans, Aborigines, and indegenious people all over the world who care about their environment. Wtf are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.12095339]

>>12095333
trips of delusion

[Anonymous No.12095356]

>>12095323
Why is /pol/ completely incapable of uncoupling Western beliefs from whiteness? Is it autism?

[Anonymous No.12095359]

>>12095333
Because they live in it, not in protected enclaves where nature is alienated and cordoned off.

>>12095316
Systemic problems require system solutions. Socialism is founded on internationalist thinking, and that kind of systems view is what is needed to fix problems like mass extinction or ecocide.

[Anonymous No.12095370]

>>12095333
>muh pure spiritual native americans
>not noticing mass extinction of megafauna in north america coincided exactly with arrival of humans in north america

[Anonymous No.12095388]

I see retarded /pol/tards make this claim all the time. It's completely baseless and retarded. Anyone with a rudimentary knowlege knows that this is completely false.
Take this, it's a map of ecological conflicts around the world.
https://ejatlas.org
How does it feel to be BTFO by basic fact checking?
>>12095370
This happened literally everywhere humans went besides Africa and southeat Asia, especially in Europe lol. That's prehistorical and has nothing to do with today.

[Anonymous No.12095398]

>>12091846
Ehi, me too! I wonder if there is a board where we could talk about it

[Anonymous No.12095405]

>>12095388
the native americans became pure and spiritual between 11,000 BC and now. Got it.

[Anonymous No.12095410]

>>12091799
I was a vegetarian for a year+ to reduce my own footprint. I decided to quit when I realized that no matter what I did I would die at the age of 52. It was either die eating meat or die eating beans and rice so i picked the meat. I believe that the only thing that will save the human race is technology. Synthetic meats, renewable energies and/or singularity can save us but even then it will probably be too late.

[Anonymous No.12095414]

>>12095370
Le noble savage is retarded but by all accounts the eastern native americans lived pretty fucking harmoniously with nature, the whole eastern seaboard was like a huge garden. Some of the southwest cultures were pretty cool too but they got wrecked by, ironically, a changing climate

[Anonymous No.12095415]

>>12095405
No, they are humans and have a basic caring for the living things around them. Only subhuman westernized urbanites and bugmen don't care.

[Anonymous No.12095427]

>>12092424
object oriented ontology

[Anonymous No.12095430]

>>12095415
then why did they hunt mammoths to extinction
and how do you explain the aztec and the comanche
maybe the a blank slate and a fertilization of victimhood lets you project selfless ideals onto them

[Anonymous No.12095431]

>>12095410
I'm a vegetarian of five years and I do it for ethical reasons mostly. I do it for myself. I honestly don't think you can have a significant impact, if you think so you're deluded. The best thing you can do for the environment is not have kids.

[Anonymous No.12095437]

>>12095430
They are humans and are killers too. Nobody is perfect. The fact is that the idea that only Europeans care about ecological issues is completely false.

[Anonymous No.12095444]

>>12095414
I read somewhere that Central American Natives had more industry than was previously supposed. The Aztecs were essentially nazis that would sacrifice anything (literally) for their war machine and the conquest of their neighbors. If this meant improper or expedient forestry actions, scorched earth or mistreating livestock or whatever, they did it.

[Anonymous No.12095463]

Noble savage is not a meme. Everyone is a both noble and savage.

[Anonymous No.12095484]

>>12095430
>then why did they hunt mammoths to extinction
There is actually a huge autistic argument about this. We don't know whether it was exclusively humans who hunted them out or radical climate change. There exists people who are adamant we were a minor factor

[Anonymous No.12095519]

>>12091799
Is green texting a totally new narrative device that's only existed for a few years? Was there anything even close to green texting before 4chan? I guess it's kind of similar to how people would write telegraphs.

[Anonymous No.12095752]

Nice book lists... not. I see why this thread is being suppressed.

[Anonymous No.12095761]

>>12095519
that's an interesting question

[Anonymous No.12095802]

>>12095088
https://discord.gg/PxrR3n