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/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:10:14 2018 No.12078081 [Reply] [Original]

I’m only like 15 pages in and my man Augustine is already showing zero chill on pagans.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:24:24 2018 No.12078130 File: 89 KB, 589x800, GK-Chesterton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] because pagans suck

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:34:38 2018 No.12078177 File: 103 KB, 1000x803, Gerard_Seghers_(attr)_-_The_Four_Doctors_of_the_Western_Church,_Saint_Augustine_of_Hippo_(354–430).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] the doctor will see you now

Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:37:24 2018 No.12078193

Doesn't matter. Jesus of Nazareth wasn't real and there's no verifiable historic source for any of the gospels.
Paul basically just forced his meme cult long enough for the newfags to take it seriously and here we are, millions of deaths and centuries of oppression later...

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:38:07 2018 No.12078202 >>12078081 Reminder that none of this happened.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:38:54 2018 No.12078205 >>12078081 >>12078130 this >>12078193 >>12078202 We will pray for your heathen souls.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:42:14 2018 No.12078222 >>12078081 He is literally the worst out of all the church fathers, why did the west suck his dick so much?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:43:41 2018 No.12078230 >>12078205 >We will pray for your heathen souls. My soul is a meme just as much as my nose to jaw ratio. I've been black pilled since kindergarden and have realized that what you call Satan is actually just the female element of universal duality.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:44:56 2018 No.12078235 >>12078230 >female = bad fucking sexis pig!!@

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:48:50 2018 No.12078252 >>12078202 >Reminder that none of this happened. What, Rome being raided?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:52:22 2018 No.12078260 >>12078193 >the paul ruined christianity meme Where does this come from? I only ever see it on 4chan

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 21:58:10 2018 No.12078279 File: 184 KB, 483x470, 1515512591510.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12078230 >duality Wow

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 23:15:20 2018 No.12078631 Is it worth reading? Seems like a brick

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 23:16:22 2018 No.12078641 >>12078631 Nah read confessions instead, its more engaging and not very long

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 13 23:19:05 2018 No.12078656 >>12078260 Yea, Everyone knows it was john and his retarded Revelations that ruined Christianity.

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 00:22:43 2018 No.12078961
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>>12078656
I think american evangelicals would be a hell of a lot less annoying and a hell of a lot less sneaky about meddling in foreign policy if he didn't make all those doomsday predictions

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 00:34:51 2018 No.12079021 >>12078260 Nietzche wrote about it in the antichrist

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 00:37:32 2018 No.12079027 >>12078961 Protestants are already retarded, and then Evangelicals upped the ante by another factor, so Evangelical Protestants are double retards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 00:42:23 2018 No.12079046 >>12078961 I think evangelicals would be a lot less annoying if they were all Zionist cocksuckers

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 00:43:57 2018 No.12079051
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>>12079027
Can you imagine the thought process being undergone by somebody falling for those "prosperity gospel" televangelists saying God wants you to send them money? I genuinely can't, there's no way anybody without down syndrome or dementia could be conscious and still fall for something like that

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 02:52:20 2018 No.12079543 STOP ATTENDING THEATRICAL PERFORMANCES!!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 03:05:09 2018 No.12079585 >>12078631 1/3 interesting history about late Rome, 1/3 interesting philosophy, and 1/3 autism where Augustine tries to explain the discrepancies in those long lists of 'Jim begat Bob, then Bob begat Dave' that shit up the old testament.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 03:16:12 2018 No.12079608 File: 11 KB, 183x275, images (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12079585 Does the history include the good stuff?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 03:31:22 2018 No.12079642 >>12079046 Anon I....

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:13:20 2018 No.12079727

>>12079608
Depends how you define 'good stuff'. Not much military and political history, but lots of details about the old Roman religion practices and how seriously they were actually taken, and their role in Roman society. Discussion of the tensions with Christianity in the late empire makes it a good counterpoint to the usual Gibbon narrative, and of course Augustine is the one of the few writers we have who actually covers the Fall of Rome, so we get a picture of how that appeared to people at the time

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:24:47 2018 No.12079756

>>12078193
Jesus existed, Josephus mentions him in passing, the synoptic gospels and Paul are two independent witnesses to him. Howeverg hearsay about a guy coming back to life as a basis for one's entire world view isn't defensible in my view.

Here's the relevant Josephus passage, the one about Jesus brother. Please note that it's NOT the Christian interpolation, which is 18.3.3

Antiquities 20.9.1 §200 (Loeb translation)
>And so he convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:31:10 2018 No.12079770 >>12078193 no serious historian holds the man jesus did not exist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:33:21 2018 No.12079778 >>12079756 That Josephus passage is an interpolation >>12079770 name them. name sources.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:37:41 2018 No.12079783 >>12078279 I PUSH MY FINGERS INTO MY EYES

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:42:13 2018 No.12079790 >>12079778 I literally just said it's NOT the interpolation, which is the Testimonium Flavianum (Antiquities 18.3.3). It's a separate passage that's universally accepted as genuine.

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:46:36 2018 No.12079801

>>12079790
No it isn't, it is also a forgery. Josephus would never use the phrase 'who was called christ'.

Dig a little deeper next time. Josephus makes no mentions of Jesus.

I'm still waiting on all those "serious historians" who have said Jesus existed and also their proofs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:47:19 2018 No.12079802 >>12079778 Geza Vermes John Dominic Crossan John P. Meier E.P. Sanders Dale C. Allison Maurice Casey Paula Fredriksen

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:48:15 2018 No.12079804

>>12079801
Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that anymore." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004)

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:52:37 2018 No.12079816 >>12078260 Catholics aren't christian

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 04:54:13 2018 No.12079822

>>12079801
Where's your sources that it's a forgery? And Josephus is only mentioning that some people called him Christ, he obviously didn't believe Jesus was the Christ (Messiah). Josephus often used identifying monikers of the kind and mentions other messianic claimants without endorsing them. As far as I know the only argument for forgery is from Richard Carrier, whose analysis has been heavily challenged.

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 05:07:23 2018 No.12079842

>>12079804
>>12079802
I appreciate the list of names and will look into their works and citations. It seems almost all of them are either catholic priests or involved in seminaries in some way which isn't too great a start since I would prefer a purely disinterested sort of historian. But we shall see.

>>12079822
I had been told all of Josephus' mentions of him were fictitious. Are there any other ancient sources? Surely there would be since even if they were authentic one would hardly be enough.

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 05:14:49 2018 No.12079851

>>12079822
>As far as I know the only argument for forgery is from Richard Carrier, whose analysis has been heavily challenged.
Yep, he's the only proper historian who's ever seriously written about the Jesus-myth theory, and his work was torn apart in peer review.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 05:43:16 2018 No.12079925 >>12079842 >a purely disinterested sort of historian Really, anon? Are you 16?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 07:06:25 2018 No.12080081 >>12078193 why do I have to share my board which this cringy people

Anonymous Wed Nov 14 07:24:29 2018 No.12080110

>>12079842
>It seems almost all of them are either catholic priests or involved in seminaries in some way
Geza Vermes identified as Jewish and was non-religious.
John Dominic Crossan is an extremely liberal believer who thinks the resurrection didn't happen.
Maurice Casey was non-religious
Paula Fredriksen was educated in and teaches in secular institutions, I don't know what her personal religious views are.

Also, there's Bart Ehrman, a New Testament scholar who's an atheist and strongly defends Jesus' historicity. However he's a textual scholar rather than a historian.

>I had been told all of Josephus' mentions of him were fictitious
By who?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 07:26:52 2018 No.12080116 >>12079851 There's also Robert Price.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 07:28:21 2018 No.12080119 my man Jesus existed whether you like it or not

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 07:43:55 2018 No.12080145 >>12080116 Not a proper PhD historian like Carrier is. Its a fringe theory and always will be

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 07:58:54 2018 No.12080178 >>12078193 Tacitus.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 14 08:21:33 2018 No.12080224 >>12080145 He has PhDs in theology and New Testament studies. Still, it's only him and Carrier.

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