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/lit/ - Literature

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12065174 No.12065174 [Reply] [Original]

I wanna get into epic poetry. Is there an English equivalent to Das Nibelungenlied? What else does /lit/ recommend?

>> No.12065195

beowulf?

>> No.12065372

>>12065195
How hard would a translation of Beowulf (and other similar works, for that matter) be for an ESL speaker? I'd like to get some books but I don't want to end up regretting my choice.

>> No.12065425

>>12065372
Depends on the translation. A straightforward one will be more or less fine. It might help to read the introduction in case the translator has tried something a bit special, like keeping the original structure somewhat, and will help in explaining the stock phrases and epithets.

>> No.12065450

>>12065372
There's a Tolkien translation. Read that.

>> No.12065454

>>12065174
The Lay of Luthien by JRR Tolkien is excellent, but sadly unfinished.

>> No.12065455

>>12065450
That would probably be a more difficult version.

>> No.12065530

>>12065425
Derailing a bit from the OP, would Shakespeare be hard to tackle? I've read prose in English but hardly any poems or plays.

>> No.12065546

>>12065530
For an ESL? It would be very hard. You'd need a copy with a lot of explanatory footnotes, and even then it'd be touch-and-go. I suggest building up experience with later works first.

>> No.12065561

>>12065546
What works do you suggest?

>> No.12065573

>>12065530
>would Shakespeare be hard to tackle?
Why don't you google up some Shakespeare and find out?

I get that people ask easily Google-able questions because they're looking for an online conversation, but this question depends entirely on your language level, and internet strangers have absolutely no way of judging that.

Using 'ESL speaker' as a generalisation is also completely pointless. Joseph Conrad was an ESL speaker.

>> No.12065589

>>12065561
Generally the safest thing to do is to work backwards. So first read some early 20th century authors like Doyle or Waugh or whatever, then 19th century like Austen, Dickens, Thackeray, etc., for 18th century Fielding, Swift, Pope (for the poetry), 17th century Milton for sure, and by that time Shakespeare will be quite comprehensible.

>> No.12065605

>>12065573
I asked on /lit/ instead of googling because I thought some well-read anons from here are going to give me solid advice.

>> No.12065645

>>12065372
Judge for yourself:
"Lo, praise of the prowess of people-kings
of spear-armed Danes, in days long sped,
we have heard, and what honor the athelings won!
Oft Scyld the Scefing from squadroned foes,
from many a tribe, the mead-bench tore,
awing the earls. Since erst he lay
friendless, a foundling, fate repaid him:"
This is from the 1909 translation by Francis Barton Gummere. The Seamus Heaney translation might be easier to understand for somebody uninitiated in the somewhat narrow field of high, classical poetry put into English verse or knowledge about Anglo-Saxon England and early Germanic poetry, but is also quite rough, dry, more like some kind of Hollywood fantasy movie narration than an actual poem.
>>12065450
The Tolkien translation isn't too bad, but it's not a poem, and it's not very easily distinguished from Tolkien's own style. Hence, it feels more like reading an ancient tale told by a modern fantasy novel writer.

>> No.12065657

>>12065645
That's seems like a pretty close translation of the original, I'd say, retaining as many of the "Old Englishisms" as possible.

>> No.12065666
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12065666

>>12065645

>> No.12065678

>>12065174
English language, you mean?
Milton
Blake's long stuff
Pope maybe

>> No.12065688

>>12065605
But how do you expect to get 'solid advice' when they don't (and can't) know your language level? Makes no sense at all to ask 'guys do you think I can read Shakespeare?' when all the Shakespeare in the world is literally a couple of seconds away.

>> No.12065704
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12065704

>nobody mentioning Chaucer

>> No.12065715

>>12065704
The Canterbury Tales is vastly different from the Nibelungenlied. If he had mentioned the Decameron then Chaucer would be appropriate.

>> No.12065724

>>12065174
Any introduction to norse mithology ?

>> No.12065734

>>12065715
It's the closest English equivalent, to say nothing of Troilus & Criseyde

>> No.12065769

>>12065715
>The Canterbury Tales
This is also something I've been meaning to read.

>> No.12065780

>>12065769
I highly recommend it (but in the original Middle English - you can do it if you can work your way through Shakespeare).

>> No.12065890

>>12065704
OP asked for epic poetry.
If we're talking middle-english lit, Chaucer is great though, as well as Langford and the Pearl poet.
I'll add Mallory as well, but he wrote prose.

>> No.12065947

>>12065890
>OP asked for epic poetry
So Troilus and Crisyde if you don't count CT as epic