Talmudism

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011654]

Reposting from my Twitter feed because I figured you guys might have some thoughts. It is about Heidegger's theory of "idle talk" in the work "Being and Time"

Heidegger's theory of "idle talk" can be crudely simplified as a state of discourse in which commentary has primacy over the subject of the discourse (not the Cartesian "subject"). This can actually lead to the "covering up" of its subject's being. This is exactly what the Pharisees did with religion, which Christ condemned. Now Catholicism (I don't mean NuCatholicism) has ἀλήθεια as its basis. This term is used in John 6:55 in the presocratic sense (which Heidegger seeks to restore), not the Platonic sense. Talmudic (Pharisaic) Judaism by contrast places idle talk at the center of its faith and zealously fixates upon it. Einstein hated what he called "Talmudism" in science. I will now bring in another concept of Heidegger's, which is fall. Fall is a sort of "busyness" Dasein engages in which covers up being--sometimes purposely, in order to escape or ignore it for the sake of "tranquility" which Heidegger says is always "tempting" Dasein to fall to the world. Idle talk is a manifestation of fall. Harold Bloom sees Talmudism as precisely this, arguing that Judaism was "traumatized" by Christianity, and fixated completely on commentary in order to cope and distance itself from the radix of the trauma. Whatever the reasons, we now understand Talmudism. French philosophy from Sartre forward is a sort of Talmudism. It completely gives primacy to the discourse itself over the being discourse is concerned with, Derrida even says there is no such being, discourse is only referential to discourse. This is because the Konservative Revolution dealt such a blow to left-wing thought, that the only way the left could fight back was Talmudism. When Barthes says, "Language is fascism," he means any language but idle talk, as he wishes to perpetuate fall against rise.

[Anonymous No.12011710]

>>12011654
>This is because the Konservative Revolution dealt such a blow to left-wing thought
It did? I thought the blow was largely the failure of political projects like the Soviet Union. There are a few interesting and influential thinkers among the KRs... I don’t think the movement traumatised left-wing thought.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011803]

>>12011710
Well its casualties included the subject-object dichotomy, dialectic and materialism.

[Anonymous No.12011810]

>>12011654
This post is antisemetic and lamentable.

[Anonymous No.12011847]

Hey I’ve seen you on twitter before

[Anonymous No.12011864]

>>12011654
>Wall of text full of jargon and untranslated Greek terms condemning idle talk

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011867]

>>12011847
Then we probably follow or are followed by some of the same people. You're a conservative Catholic or a nationalist or into philosophy, I take it?

[Anonymous No.12011873]

>>12011864
Are you referring to the image because it's still really clear what it's saying, despite the fact that I don't know any Greek

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011879]

>>12011864

[Anonymous No.12011892]

>>12011879
what an odd thing to tweet. god i love this president. we're the same shitty country we always were but at least it's funny now

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011907]

>>12011892
Hahaha, me too, friend. I actually found his shitposting style really obnoxious when I first voted for him, but slowly since then I've come to enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.12011936]

>>12011654
Worshiping Heidegger or blaming the Jews won't save society from the plague of idle talk, 99% of western philosophy is still table talk compared to eastern thought and it would probably be that way even without the Jews.

[Anonymous No.12011940]

>>12011936
can you give a brief summary of why you feel that's true?

[Anonymous No.12011950]

>>12011940
Because the world does not reflect your will. The dark machine of civilized machinations is at the core of some of the German philosophers thoughts. And although the Jews can be rather circumlocutory, the German are far worse, being entirely obfuscatory for the purpose of Nietzsche’s moral nihilism

[Anonymous No.12011952]

>>12011654
Ok, this is epic

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011965]

>>12011936
Well I'm Orthodox :)

[Anonymous No.12011973]

>>12011952
I don't care for Peterson but he's right. Those kinds of intellectuals' thought doesn't amount to much more than pointless verbiage. Taking up Jungian psychoanalysis as a source of values and orientation doesn't really do us any good either, though. We need theology back desperately. We need God.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011976]

>>12011952
He recently tweeted his outrage at antisemites on Twitter, lol

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12011988]

[Anonymous No.12011992]

>>12011952
bit unfair to Foucault. Yeah a lot of it was garbage but he had interesting things to say as well

[Anonymous No.12011994]

>>12011976
Is that the Jewish version of "im a girl btw", "my family died in the holocaust btw"

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012003]

>>12011992
Foucault is by far the best of them, but still a generally shallow thinker concerned with the "sovereign subject" as Paramount. He critiques the Enlightenment (very well) while ultimately shilling for it

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012010]

>>12011994
Paul Gottfried lost family in the Holocaust too, but the only time I've seen him bring it up was when the SPLC called him a Neo Nazi

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012298]

>>12011950
I suggest you read Heidegger's "Introduction to Metaphysics" which is quite lucid and discusses what you're talking about. Heidegger sees Nietzsche's position as rather a symptom than a cause though.

[Anonymous No.12012337]

>>12011940
read Guenon

[Anonymous No.12012347]

>>12012337
>impersonalist nondualist metaphysics
umm no thanks sweetie, im a trinitarian palamite personalist

[Anonymous No.12012467]

>>12011654
Forgetfulness of being is helpful here too.
Nietzsche, Derrida, and Deleuze see positivity in the forgetfulness of being, whereas Heidegger views forgetfulness more as error. Heidegger looks to the Greeks to hopefully restore the forgotten truth of being he believes they discovered contemporaneously with the inception of philosophy. Derrida, Deleuze, and Nietzsche, however, affirm forgetfulness as essential to the constitution of time and a truth of being that has no original moment to speak of other than becoming as such. Forgetfulness as a break from history itself in the passage of the present rather than Heidegger's forgetfulness as a covering over a former, more originary truth and deviation therefrom.

[Anonymous No.12012473]

>>12012347
He saw personalist vishishtadvaita non-dualism as being another way of teaching a path to the same thing, from there it's only a stones throw to the 'inconceivable oneness and difference' of personalist achintya bheda abheda vedanta, which is basically just the Hindu equivalent of orthodox palamism, or at least the heights of its mystic states. Orthodox theology/mysticism largely comes from neoplatonism anyways, neoplatonism is one area of western thought most closet to eastern thought and its influence makes EO the most spiritually eastern Christianity as well as geographical and the orthodox theosis finds its most direct parallels in eastern thought. As a palamite since you consider it to be possible for some level of unity/union to be actualized during life you're more than halfway agreeing with him in principle already. Anyways, his metaphysical views have little bearing upon what he says about the degeneration of the west/modernity and how eastern thought compares, you can agree with what he says about that or appreciate certain insights while holding opposing views on other matters.

[Anonymous No.12012509]

>>12011847
Source?

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012521]

>>12012347
Read Saint Ignatius Briachaninov. Dualism is the metaphysical Jew.

>>12012467
Well Nietzsche sees being itself as a mere "vapor", which Heidegger confronts in "Introduction to Metaphysics". Derrida himself denies being certainly. Deleuze I have not read. Tbh I don't think French philosophy has produced anything of value except the Counter Enlightenment (which is invaluable, Bonald is if enormous importance)

>>12012473
I would argue that Orthodox theology mostly based on Apostolic doctrine. If any Greek school was influential on the early Church, it was stoicism. The energies-essence distinction is also not found in neoplatonism. Now Dionysius the Areopagite is very important in theological articulation, but negative theology as a doctrine is expressed numerous times in the Bible. Neoplatonism's greatest contribution was to our terminology, although even most of that came from Aristotle and the stoics.

[Anonymous No.12012528]

>>12011973
Praise be

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012533]

>>12012509
This is the thread I reposted here

https://twitter.com/ContraEquality/status/1056794606694653952?s=09

[Anonymous No.12012558]

>>12012521
>Read Saint Ignatius Briachaninov. Dualism is the metaphysical Jew.
im not a dualist, but nondualism as understood by vedanta and neoplatonism is not compatible with orthodoxy. orthodoxy is neither dualist nor nondualist. it doesn't fit into those sorts of categories. it's something else. it's the mystery of the living god.

[Anonymous No.12012559]

>>12011976
>>12011988
The gall of these kikes, who were responsible for millions of murders before they were run off by Stalin, to DEMAND that themselves and their nonwhite pets have a RIGHT to immigrate to and live in white countries, is enough for them to deserve the oven for real this time.

[Anonymous No.12012573]

just had a look at your twitter. why do you say that protestantism is a rejection of repentance? can you explain what you mean by that?

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012580]

>>12012558
Of course both systems fail to capture Orthodoxy, as does idealism vs materialism. But the physical vs metaphysical dichotomy is shit. Even the devil cannot time travel

[Anonymous No.12012583]

>>12012559
Or better yet, we could bring them into the true faith by proselytizing them. Not sure what great spiritual advantage you would get from genociding them.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012592]

>>12012573
Ever read Luther? He construes penance as trying to be saved by works

[Anonymous No.12012594]

>>12012580
>But the physical vs metaphysical dichotomy is shit
yes, i reject such a dichotomy

[Anonymous No.12012601]

>>12012583
Yeah that was tried for centuries, buddy. They slaughtered their own children to avoid conversion or pretended to convert but just kept jewing. They are a negative force on the planet and the enemy of all people, so the advantage with them gone should be obvious.

[Anonymous No.12012608]

>>12012601
>so the advantage with them gone should be obvious
It's merely a worldly advantage, the advantage of proselytizing and failing is greater than that, how much more so proselytizing and succeeding.

[Anonymous No.12012620]

>>12012608
You still worship a jew so I can't expect you to be rational, but the jews' problem is genetic, so even if you were to convert them to the beta-commie ideology they used to take down Rome, it wouldn't do shit to stop their behavior.

[Anonymous No.12012630]

the meme is to disregard most pomo though i think it is anti-intellectual to not be able to adjust comprehension to get something useful out of it. there is an element of sourgrapes that comes with it, even if i do agree for the most part what idle talk is.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012694]

>>12012630
I have no difficulty understanding pomo, I love Heidegger, who is also advanced. It is *because* I understand pomo that I attack it.

[Anonymous No.12012723]

>>12012694
so besides foucault which pomo thinkers stand out for you?

[Anonymous No.12012749]

So meta discussion of discussion dominates over discussion of actual things in order to hide our discomfort of being?


Why do you have to use so many words OP?

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12012953]

>>12012723
I don't what you mean by "stand out". They're all competent thinkers. But their project is primarily damage control in the service of "globohomo". I only give Foucault some slack because a lot of his criticism of the Enlightenment can be applied to undermine the left--however I also oppose the pomo right, aka the "New Right"

>>12012749
Idle talk was not defined with many words, I used many words to observe its presence in the Talmud in postmodernism.

As your definition, it is part of what I am saying, but does not cover all of "idle talk". Fall includes more than talk (simply burying yourself in busyness of any kind in order to distract yourself from being, is fall); metadiscussion includes more than idle talk (Heidegger himself discusses discussed, that is not idle talk); idle talk includes more than metadiscussion (rumor gossip is idle talk). Babbling to distract yourself from a source of anxiety is a very good example of fall.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12013312]

>>12012473
>just the Hindu equivalent of orthodox palamism, or at least the heights of its mystic states
I think I should also point out that no Orthodox would accept this as it is saying Orthodox Christianity is a false religion

[Anonymous No.12013492]

>>12011654
All those words just to say that too much commentary is bad.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12013538]

>>12013492
That is not what I am saying at all. Of course "too much" means "excessive", which is bad by definition. What I am saying is that discourse which prioritizes itself over its subject is the model of Talmudism and postmodernism. How "long" discourse is has nothing to do with this, as short discourse can do it.

[Anonymous No.12013654]

I agree with the idea of "idle talk"; the thing that bothers and confuses me is the fact that you bring the Jews as a caprum expiatorio and don't even try to justify it

It's an argument in bad faith, and you are a politicised charlatan

[Anonymous No.12013692]

>>12011654
sicut judaeis non

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12013714]

>>12013654
Judaism is above reproach? Or do you simply think that's not a valid reproach?

[Anonymous No.12013732]

I feel a sense of deja vu, didn't I see this exact thread a few weeks ago?

OP, how much time did you put into studying the Mishnah, Gemara, etc?
I'm asking because I'm interested in doing this myself.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12013737]

>>12013732
Zero

I have posted before regarding Heidegger and the pomos,but this is a new thread,not a repost

[Anonymous No.12013756]

>>12013737
Ok

I'll get back to you if I'll ever take the time to sit through all of that idle talk in the Jewish tradition.

Meanwhile, add more about PoMo please, it's a hot topic issue.
Is there any particular thinker you like over Derrida and Foucault and so on?

[Anonymous No.12013802]

>>12013714
Nothing is above reproach

I think you should try to systematise the critique of Judaism forgetting the traditional eversive anti-judaic sentiment (literally the whole of its history)

I admit that idle talk argument is pretty compelling

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12013807]

>>12013756
I don't like any postmodern thinker because I see postmodernism as a crypto Cartesian reaction to the Konservative Revolution's takedown of Cartesianism. It's trying to preserve dead ideas by dressing them up in drag to seem provocative, as it were. Puntel is a much more relevant current philosopher in terms of coming to terms and moving forward.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12013810]

>>12013802
I will if I write a book, which I won't unless a lot of people end up following me on Twitter. I don't think you would like it, however

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12014829]

>>12013692
Are you the guy with that handle?

[Anonymous No.12014908]

Man your twitter is absolute cringe. You have that know-it-all enthusiasm of the devoted amateur and it's just cringe the fuck. Grab some book on economics and drop the childish antisemitism.

[Anonymous No.12015060]

>>12011654
so, basically, person A overthinks someone's original ideas, and then person B overthinks person A's overthinking of the original, so on and so forth, until the original meaning is irrelevant?

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12015089]

>>12015060
gossip is also idle talk.

[Anonymous No.12015481]

>>12011864
Nigger that image is probably the most lucid text you will ever find in continental philosophy.

[@ContraEquality !!uyQx3qc8msv No.12016684]

>>12014908
I don't normally tweet about economics, but I added one for you.