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/lit/ - Literature

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11991079 No.11991079 [Reply] [Original]

wtf he is literally right about everything. he wanted to save western civilization. when did you realize marxists were the good guys all along?

>> No.11991080

>when did you realize marxists were the good guys all along?
when I stopped sharing memes about how ironic it is that Socialists buy things and actually read Marx

>> No.11991090

Adorno is based, he hated blacks and wanted communism (against jews). You could say that Stalin invented Nazbol but Adorno - he perfected it.

>> No.11991118

I wouldn't say he was right about everything, but he was definitely right about capitalism's commodification of protest. Liberal identity politics commodify the struggles of what they see as marginalized people for the creation of capital. That's why Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar are praised as geniuses. Artistic affirmative action is just a capitalist scheme.

>> No.11991121

>>11991118
What do I read to get his critique of commodification of dissent? I liked that short youtube clip where he talks about protest music.

>> No.11991126

>>11991121
Unfortunately that's all I've seen of it. I wish there were something longer but I don't believe any such thing was in The Culture Industry.

>> No.11991182

>>11991079
>when did you realize marxists were the good guys all along?
Back when I was young and stupid. Thankfully I grew out of that phase.

>> No.11991190

Someone explain the Jazz = Fascism meme to me

>> No.11991196
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11991196

>"Everything one had been wishing for for years has happened, the whole country littered up, millions of Hansjürgens and Utes dead."
Adorno in a letter to his parents, May '45.

>> No.11991201

>>11991182
yeah now you are just stupid

>> No.11991213

>>11991182
This.
Thankfully /pol/ re-educated me. Who knew that everything they teach in schools is wrongthink, underage frogposters are the only trustworthy source of knowledge.

>> No.11991217

>>11991190
Jazz does nothing but temper the body for mindless consumerism.

>> No.11991227

>>11991079
I like Adorno, but:

>“There can be no poetry after Auschwitz”

He went full retard there.

>> No.11991231

Where do you start with this guy?

>> No.11991233

>>11991079
But the spectacle can be broken. There is a possibility that something tamed and appropriated turns into a real struggle. Search yt for zizek at its best at subversive Festival croatia

>> No.11991237

>>11991079
They were always the good guys, but they are also retarded and ignorant.

>> No.11991246

>>11991237
This, most of them were very smart and insightful but also autistic copelords. Adorno doubly so.

>> No.11991271

>>11991233
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mGC3uJadXh0&time_continue=18

>> No.11991317

>>11991227

In the historical context it makes sense. 6 million people, one by one by one by one by one by one murdered in an industrial fashion, like they were raw materials to be produced. Jews, homosexuals, communists, the mentally and physically disabled, stripped of personhood. Now we have a distance from these events, we know the numbers, but that is different from an empty village, that is different then true proximity to the events. With this in mind, I think his stance makes a sense.

>> No.11991330

>>11991317
Like what happened in the USSR under Stalin under an even greater scale? This baldie is either a dumbass or an hypocrite.

>> No.11991335

>>11991330
Most of the people killed by Stalin died from starvation. From famine or being sent to live in Siberia.

>> No.11991374

>>11991335
They were forced to starve or put into prison camps where they had to literally work to death. This is direct murder. They even killed in much greater numbers than Germany did. 14 million Christians were killed. The Holodomor happened which was the direct murder of innocent people purely based on their ethnicity. Why are you or this bald idiot trying to downplay this?

>> No.11991401

>>11991335
Yeah... forcefully. But I guess the absence of being gassed makes it "better"

>> No.11991415

>>11991118
>I have never engaged seriously with Kendrick and don't plan to, but will happily judge his work in accordance with my expectations and feel smug about it

I agree with your driving point about the commoditization of protest, and the way film / music etc is selling and creating products based upon the commoditization and fetishization of "the struggle," but Kendrick is a bad example. Many of his raps are self-conscious about his role selling blackness to America and how he personally has contributed to romanticizing "hood" life. He's constantly anxious about the process of the culture industry in destroying his voice as a poet and human BY magnifying him into "one of the greats" thanks to de-contextialized party singles like GKMC's "Bitch don't kill my vibe."

There are a ton of better examples to use, "artists" manipulated by record labels and designed by the industry to sell. Kendrick is really not one of those artists tho, imo

(but talking about rap on post-pol lit is impossible, I know)

>> No.11991416

>>11991317
I think what Adorno fails to consider is the fact that The Holocaust is exactly why we need poetry. With all the suffering in the world, it’s important to remind people that beauty exists.

Adorno’s statement was a destructive one in the sense that post-modernists took it to heart resulting in overly cynical art not tempered by any kind of silver lining or transendal qualities becoming the dominant type of art in western culture.

>> No.11991442

>>11991079

When were marxists ever the bad guys?

Marxism always had good intentions

>> No.11991452

>>11991415
i'm a leftist too and kendrick lamar is nigger babble, don't talk about trash like him as if he is a poet.
> Many of his raps are self-conscious about his role selling blackness to America and how he personally has contributed to romanticizing "hood" life.
he has literally never romanticized ghetto life and anyone who "romanticizes" living like a monkey retard is a monkey retard. kendrick lamar is gorilla tier rap. Adorno would have called him a nigger to his face and called him a tool for the "capitalistic control of the negro"

>> No.11991513

>>11991452
>but talking about rap on post-pol lit is impossible, I know

>> No.11991604

>>11991415
>self-conscious about his role selling blackness to America
which is why he decided to embarrass a white fan for reciting his lyrics accurately on stage. can't get upstaged by Donald Glover now as the most woke rapper now, can he?
>how he personally has contributed to romanticizing "hood" life
self-important narcissism, Kendrick Lamar wasn't anywhere close to the first rapper to do this, and won't be anywhere close to the last to briefly grace the charts
>(but talking about rap on post-pol lit is impossible, I know)
because you're naive, young, and cucked to some extent. I remember when I felt embarrassed and guilty listening to GKMC, only to realize that that was the product of lifelong conditioning and that no particular struggle is innately worse than another. who the fuck knows how true any of KL's stories are anyway, it's shit designed to sell at a time when TPTB want to stoke the flames of racial tension

>> No.11991635

>>11991335
Wait, you're telling me 6 million jews were personally gassed, shot or otherwise killed by human hand? None of them died by starvation or disease?

>> No.11991701

>>11991416
Adorno obviously meant that the mode in which we write poetry has to change drastically in light of the 20th century and its 'horrors', as the most essential boundaries we defined ourselves by had become obsolete. I was about to refer to Paul Celan as a clear example of post-Auschwitz poetry Adorno would probably approve of, but apparently critics have already thought about that, so you should probably google the topic if you're interested.

>> No.11991922

>>11991701

did you also just read my struggle 6? that celan poem is really something. the idea of poetry stripping away the usual context and meaning of language and placing a new sort of scaffolding of meaning in its place was really interesting.

>> No.11991946

>>11991635

Obviously there were many reasons for the death of Jews in the Holocaust, but even so I think it was the industrial nature of the gassing of millions that have given it a standing as a modern innovation in the history of human atrocity.

>> No.11991953

>>11991452

good luck building class consciousness and fighting class struggle when you hate vast amounts of the working class!

>> No.11991973

>>11991953
i want to help them but i'd never associate myself with them. we don't need to pretend they're great individuals because they are getting fucked by capitalism, anon.

>> No.11992000

>>11991190
Clouscard actually refuted that claim and proved Rock’n’Roll was capitalism’s beat tool.

>> No.11992022

>>11991079
Having read the Culture of Critique, I simply cannot take the man seriously.

>> No.11992035

>>11991330
Most of the NKVD was Jewish, carrying out executions of non-Jewish Russians, so why would Adorno care about that? No, the reason he fixated on Auschwitz is all too obvious.

>> No.11992648

>>11991196
Based

>> No.11992662

>>11992000
Rock was just the more effective extension of jazz. Hip hop is the same to rock.

>> No.11992748

>>11991415
It literally does not matter if Kendrick is conscious of him being part of the problem of commodification. Artists do that whether they're good or not, there's no point in being defensive about it.

>> No.11993354

>>11991079
>believes what he reads
Is there any surer sign of a pseud?

>> No.11993393

>>11991635
Careful. Just asking that question can get you a visit from the "counterterroism squad" at three in the morning, anywhere in Australia, Canada, or the EU.

OLDTHINKERS UNBELLYFEEL INGSOC

>> No.11993396

They aren’t. Read The Bible to find out why

>> No.11993400

>>11992035
>most of the nkvd was Jewish
no they were not.

>> No.11993410

>>11991079
>when did you realize marxists were the good guys all along?
When I actually decided to read what they had to say instead of look at /pol/ propaganda infographs

>> No.11993436

>>11993400
[citation needed]

Jews were less than 1% of the population of the USSR but 45% of the Politburo and 75% of the Cheka/NKVD/MVD/OGPU/KGB were Jews. Pravda even had articles boasting of this--though, of course, Pravda regarded objective truth as rather malleable.