/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11925823]

Where do I get started with paganism ?
Someone said to read this book but I'd much rather ask /lit/ first.

[Anonymous No.11925870]

That's a gay book. Start with Collin Cleary's Summoning the Gods for general paganism. Then go for the sources in whichever branch you want, /lit/ is right in that the Greeks are fucking genius, but the Nords were pretty cool in the Sagas and Eddas. It's a lot less fluff the more north you go i.e. list of boats or just lists. I can list translations and theory too if you want.

[Anonymous No.11925893]

You read Plato and Aristotle, then realize that Pagan thought came to the conclusion that there is only one God, then you move on to saint Thomas Aquinas

[Anonymous No.11925901]

>>11925893
Monotheism doesn’t even make sense because it means God is either not omnipotent (because he can’t stop evil) or is not all good (because he refuses to stop evil)
Polytheism makes more sense because evil is accounted for in the competition between Gods. It also better reflects human society

[Anonymous No.11925915]

Just take up atheist-theistic biocentric catholic animism.
Life is the creator, and religion is the study of life qua living.

[Anonymous No.11925916]

>>11925893
nah it turned into (fucking based) neoplatonism which then christians fucked up.
>>11925901
It's neither an argument of monotheism nor polytheism, it's more like India where gods are aspects of one divine truth

[Anonymous No.11925919]

>>11925893
this lmao

[Anonymous No.11925923]

what sort of paganism? You mean Nordic? Finnic? Chinese? Probably Nordic you imprecise nigger. Read the poetic Eddas
#PAGANG
>>11925893
cringe and jewpilled

[Anonymous No.11925927]

>>11925916
Could you not say God is the whole of truth. I’m failing to see the actual difference

[Anonymous No.11925935]

>>11925923
You’re a fool, and you don’t even know it.
Enjoy your little pagan LARPing while the social and academic elite worship Satan.

[Anonymous No.11925945]

Read the kybalion 3 or 4 times

[Anonymous No.11925954]

>>11925901
>evil
>>11925916
>truth
>>11925893
>Plato

[Anonymous No.11925963]

>>11925927
One the All =/= God
There is a difference. Even then there can be differences in how cultures take the viewpoints of the lesser gods. In Germanic and Celtic culture (even post christian) it's generally that a god of Outlaws and Wandering is the chief God. This later took a form among Spenglers Faustian culture. The Hindus took it a bit different, and the Meds took it different too. One the All has split in modern day to be multiple things, and now it has personality. But the God of the Bible is a personal being, and that being is foreign to our culture.

[Anonymous No.11925977]

>>11925935
> the social and academic elite worship Satan
and you say I'm the one LARPing? Fucking lol. They worship money and themselves. They want you to be weak, pitying and tolerant, that is to say: a good Christian, to keep you as the perfect citizen and the perfect cattle and a slave to yourself.
Lmaoing at you. Fuck off, kike
#PAGANG

[Anonymous No.11925978]

>>11925901
>not omnipotent (because he can’t stop evil)
evil is a lack of being, it has no power in itself, if we chose to overcome it
>or is not all good (because he refuses to stop evil)
we (and angels) have free-will, it's our fault if we do evil, not God's

Your polytheism is nonsensical since your "gods" don't even own the notes of divinity we can think of by reason alone, and since they participate activally in evil.
You also forget that even in Paganism there is always ONE Higher God (see W. Schmitt in his study on the origins and growth of religion)

>reflects society
Well, they reflect evil that is not overcome, even if interesting parts are involved in it (competition is not bad in itself, but polytheism doesn't see it as distinct from its destructive effects ; compare it with the temptation of Our Lord Jesus-Christ and you will see this humane/natural negativity involved by our free-will and its sursumption).

You also forget the fact that Christianity has an angelology and a demonology. If you want to see constant struggle between spiritual forces, this is far superior to the Pagan mythologies, because angelology and demonology study real forces with reason and godly (revelated) material.

[Anonymous No.11925980]

>>11925977
SHIT forgot my pagang pic, sorry about that, gang
#PAGANG

[Anonymous No.11926060]

>>11925977
https://youtu.be/zW5gklIKcDg
Whatever keeps you happy.

[Anonymous No.11926067]

Evola actually knows what he's talking about.

[Anonymous No.11926075]

>>11925923
Judaism B.C. is the chrysalis, Christianity is the butterfly.
Judaism A.D. is the empty chrysalis trying to say that the butterfly didn't come out of it, and adopting anything that can negate the existence of it (through self-deification with both the Talmudic tradition and gnostic and oriental thought, which led to the Kabbalistic thought).

Talmudic judaism has nothing to do with what Hebrew believes.
Actual Jews also do not share a drop of blood with the Hebrews of then (which were a composite and artificial people).

Your arguments are wrong my lad.

[Anonymous No.11926088]

>>11925823
Most likely not with anyone named Joyce, River, Carol, Becky, Vicky, Steve, Gloria, or Moonbeam.

[Anonymous No.11926093]

>>11926075
Why do people always say modern jews have no relation to ancient jews?

[Anonymous No.11926098]

>>11926093
Because it's true ?

[Anonymous No.11926099]

One of these days I'll make a pagan flowchart that's fucking autistic and includes Kant, Hegel, and Nietzsche along the likes of Spengler, Heidegger and Ernst Juenger

[Anonymous No.11926105]

>needing a book to tell you the rules of having faith

I'm one of those fellas who had to defend his faith in court, because my rights were being infringed. I had to explain to him that paganism wasn't like the religions he was likely familiar with, such as christianity, with it's clearly stated rules. No scripture, no churches, no pastors, it's a very fluid religion and essentially you decide for yourself how it is to be practiced. Such self direction can be hard for people, I suppose, or at least hard to comprehend. OP himself is seeking the sort of structured religion and rulebooks he is familiar with right now.

meh, I don't really have a point honestly. I'm done with this train of thought

[Anonymous No.11926117]

>>11926105
>subjectivism is so cool lol
the post

[Anonymous No.11926118]

>>11926060
that looks like some Gnostic kike shit. You thinking it's satanic is your Christian programming stopping you from venturing outside your safe space to do something similar, but less gay and Jewish, like practicing European pagan tradition for example.
>>11926075
>here's my inside perspective on this issue
ok, slave. Keep on being a retard.
>Actual Jews also do not share a drop of blood with the Hebrews of then
Back at it again with the peak delusion. Even if that were true it wouldn't really make a difference. Jews are race-mixed bastards that don't belong anywhere but feel at home everywhere.
#PAGANG #getDabbedOn

[Anonymous No.11926123]

>>11925823
genealogy of morals, good and evil, zarathustra - nitzey
asorted hellenic myths including epics
aristotle
plato
edda
sagas
upanishads
bhagavad ghita
PIE
and finally the talamud, quran, bible, torah in that order

[Anonymous No.11926134]

>>11926105
>no scripture
but that is completely wrong.
Only people who don't have it are slavs and lithuanians. Even fucking latvians have scripture

[Anonymous No.11926140]

>>11926118
It's the Catholic perspective on this issue from 33 to the end of times.
>>11926118
>Even if that were true it wouldn't really make a difference
lol, half of your mockeries are worth nothing if you accept that

[Anonymous No.11926143]

"What is Valhalla? . . . [It] is something beyond all sensible actualities floating in remote, dim, Faustian regions. Olympus rests on the homely Greek soil, the Paradise of the Fathers is a magic garden somewhere in the universe, but Valhalla is nowhere. Lost in the limitless, it appears with its inharmonious gods and heroes the supreme symbol of solitude. Siegfried, Parzeval, Tristan, Hamlet, Faust are the loneliest heroes in all the cultures. Read the wondrous awakening of the inner life in Wolfram’s Parzeval. The longing for the woods, the mysterious compassion, the ineffable sense of forsakenness – it is all Faustian and only Faustian." ~Oswald Spengler, Downfall of the Occident

[Anonymous No.11926146]

>>11926105
>it's a very fluid religion and essentially you decide for yourself how it is to be practiced
that's a good thing to say in a court probably but also wrong and gay. More descriptive of modern day Christianity desu
#PAGANG

[Anonymous No.11926166]

>>11926105
No actually, it is the belief that everyone can interpret everything in any way that led to the reformation which is shit. Hierarchy and scripture/oral tradition were the basis, they were just destroyed. Rome even had a damn Imperial Cult

[Anonymous No.11926168]

>>11926140
>It's the Catholic perspective
yes, exactly as I said: an inside perspective from a slave point of view
>half of your mockeries are worth nothing if you accept that
okay please do elaborate. Ashkenazi Jews have their origins in Levant. Even if your ridiculous claim were true, it wouldn't make Judaism any less Jewish and it wouldn't make Christianity any less of a slave religion and that is because of the Bible itself.

[Anonymous No.11926193]

>>11925823
Read City of God by Augustine then start with the christian cannon.

Next!

[Anonymous No.11926224]

Never read your book OP. It's probably decent if it's not Leyellwen (sp?)


I would suggest some anthropology to start. You are attempting to return to something, a way of acting and perceiving, which we have lost in the west to some degree. I would recommend reading or skimming through abridged versions of the following works on magic and religion and other pagan-adjacent topics. My list is as follows:

Fraser - The Golden Bough
Durkheim - Elementary Forms of Religious Life
Mauss - General Theory of Magic
Levy-Bruhl - How Natives Think
Harvey - Animism: Respecting the Living World
Eliade - Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy
Ibid - Rites and Symbols of Initiation: Mysteries of Birth and Rebirth
Ibid - Myth of the Eternal Return

From there, I would go Greek if I were you. Kingsley, Shaw, Uzdavinys, Hadot, and Kupperman all do good jobs presenting Greek religion particularly Neoplatonism.

Tbh, some eastern phil stuff might help round out obscurities too. (Hinduism is pretty close to what paganism probably looked like...)

Other authors? Well, John Michael Greer is a relatively well-respected pagan and "druid". The Retro Future and Mystery Teachings From The Living Earth are quite good. Good look at the modern pagan scene. Might want to look for local groups in your area too.

If you're interested in drugs and hippie girl puss, Mckenna's Archaic Revival ain't bad and downright fun at times.

Wicca is weird and a reconstructed tradition like most other Neopagan groups. Supposedly some living traditions still exist however... these would be indigineous groups and underground hermetic groups and witch cults.

[Anonymous No.11926276]

Chronologically:
Eliade - History of Religion
Eliade - Symbolism, the Sacred and the Arts
Eliade - Images and Symbols: Studies in Religious Symbolism
Manfred - Behind the Symbolism of Cultures, Myths and Religions
Schuon - Art from the Sacred to the Profane: East and West
Evola - The Mystery of the Grail: Initiation and Magic in the Quest for the Spirit
Otto - The Idea of Holy
Eliade - Sacred and Profane
Otto, Thomson - Naturalism and Religion
Guenon - Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power

Now you move onto your national academic library and read books on specific old religions of Europe - Balts, Celts, Slavs, Nords etc.

[Anonymous No.11926304]

>>11926168
>Ashkenazi Jews have their origins in Levant
You wot ? Their origins are a bizarre mix, like slavo-germano-turcic.
Sefardis are ibero-arabico-moorish.

>muh slave slave slave
I get it kiddo, you read Nietzsche, so what ? Care to elaborate ? Submission to God and to Truth is nothing like slavery.

[Anonymous No.11926339]

>>11926304
So why exactly are you submitting to this God? What are you so afraid of in this world that you feel the need to submit to this authority figure? I like how you threw Truth in there too, fucking autistic and cringy

[Anonymous No.11926347]

>>11926339
cringe of the day

[Anonymous No.11926351]

>>11926166
>there is scripture you idiot, it just doesn't exist because it was burned a century ago


Wew what a roundabout route to come to just agree with me.

[Anonymous No.11926357]

>>11926347
yeah that's what I said you parroting autistic faggot. Now answer the question

[Anonymous No.11926359]

>>11926146
Christians have a very clear set of rules issued to them, they just do not follow them. Why crave rules and structure, I wonder, if you will not follow them.

[Anonymous No.11926364]

>>11926134
There is and there isn't. As the fellow said, subjectivism is cool.

[Anonymous No.11926396]

>>11925978
Amen

[Anonymous No.11927197]

>>11926339
>So why exactly are you submitting to this God?
Why am I submitting to the One God that created me out of purely free kindness ? Is that even a question ?

[Anonymous No.11927299]

>>11926351
The Aeneid, Iliad, Odyssey, Metamorphoses, Golden Ass, Theogony, Havamal, Baldrs Dreams, Saga of the Volsungs. They're still alive in scripture, we just need a new hierarchy. One that must be even more pure than AFA

[Anonymous No.11927352]

>>11927299
>"scripture" without tradition
so you're like pagan prots ? lmao

[Anonymous No.11927486]

>>11927352
I'm saying we need to build the tradition, now tradition can easily be made from even the pagan elements of christianity such as hermetism and the three great matters, hell even cathars and rosicrucians.
The tradition dictates itself from above, not from below, so whenever the order is founded the man to do so will establish true tradition.

[Anonymous No.11927523]

>>11927197
>One god
>out of pure kindness
Yikes! A fairly wild set of assumptions

[Anonymous No.11927539]

>>11927523
Then prove me that there are several "gods" ?
And that creation is necessary (as opposed to free) and evil (as opposed to kind) ?

[Anonymous No.11927550]

>>11927539
I assume you are a camel. Prove me you are not a camel.

[and I say that even though I agree with your assumptions]

[Anonymous No.11927570]

>>11927550
From observation you can abstract the essential things, the substance (as opposed to the accidents) of both a camel and that of a human being.

If you compare these, you will be able to say that these are different beings.

[Anonymous No.11927593]

>>11925893
And then you keep going, and eventually reach Nietzsche, where Pagan thought came to the conclusion that God is dead and the Overman is the future, then you move on to based Jean Baudrillard

[Anonymous No.11927603]

>>11927539
Unfortunately I can prove that just as much as you can prove there is only one. My train of thought to this polytheistic conclusion comes from the assumption that gods are greater spirits. And I believe in the soul and spirits (obviously) only because of personal experience.
I don't deny a greater God. I don't believe he created you out of kindness. He maybe created you out of kindness to ME, a superior man, so that I can have the enjoyment of intellectually dabbing on your pathetic ass on 4chan.
#PAGANG

[Anonymous No.11927626]

>>11927593
>>11927603
you're so cringy dude, I can't even know if you're serious or not

[Anonymous No.11927644]

>>11927626
I called you cringy first so that negates you calling me cringy in all future circumstances.

[Anonymous No.11927657]

>>11927644

[Anonymous No.11927660]

>>11927657
>Americans
Almond activating stuff

[Anonymous No.11927708]

You generally want to avoid anyone that talks about "paganism" or "spirituality" because they don't know what they're talking about. You'll never get a real investigation of traditional doctrines because they're just painting their own confused modern beliefs with a pagan aesthetic in an effort to legitimize them. Read Evola.

[Anonymous No.11927723]

>>11925901
>Not all good (because he refuses to stop evil)
Who says that's the 'good' thing to do? Some people freely willing to do evil is far better than no one having any free will (because there will no longer be such thing as choosing good). Refusing to suppress free will is the 'good' thing to do. (For god btw, inb4 so people/governments shouldn't stop evil people??)

[Anonymous No.11927754]

>>11926105
Pmuch this.

The rest of the thread will be book-cucks so deaf to their own interiority that they feel unsafe without having the directions printed in front of them.

[Anonymous No.11928177]

>>11927754
>muh interiority
>muh antirationalism
>muh too smart to read
lold at you subjectivist dummie

[Anonymous No.11928516]

Why can't you guys just follow a religion that makes you happy without wanting to destroy anyone else? You know the original pagans in Ireland and eastern Europe weren't known for going around destroying everybody else? That's Christian thought and "modenr paganism" is just larping Christianity. If all that's to your religion is that everybody else deserves to burn to hell including people who aren't aware of your religion then there's much depth to it besides hatred.

[Anonymous No.11928636]

>>11926075
>Self deification
You're right about that, read this from the book of Psalms
>Psalm 78: For they provoked him to anger with their high places, and moved him to jealousy with their graven images.
>When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel: So that he forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent which he placed among men; And delivered his strength into captivity, and his glory into the enemy's hand.
So God get's so angry with Jews that he delivers them into enemy captivity. Now read what the jews say in their holy books
>Sanhedrin 58b: Rabbi Ḥanina says: A gentile who struck a Jew is liable to receive the death penalty, as it is stated when Moses saw an Egyptian striking a Hebrew: “And he turned this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he struck the Egyptian and hid him in the sand” (Exodus 2:12). And Rabbi Ḥanina says: One who slaps the cheek of a Jew is considered as though he slapped the cheek of the Divine Presence; as it is stated: “It is a snare [mokesh] for a man to rashly say [yala]: Holy” (Proverbs 20:25). The verse is interpreted homiletically to mean: One who strikes [nokesh] a Jew is considered as though he hurt the cheek [lo’a] of the Holy One.
So Jews are literally God, and hurting Jews is hurting God and you deserve death for it. Nothing to do with the Old Testament

[Anonymous No.11929083]

[Anonymous No.11929126]

>>11929083
>giving women rights is a good idea
>women are not evil
>all pagans valued women
>all Europeans were the same
>no oppression or loss of knowledge happened due to politics and religion in pre-Christian Europe
Such a simplified world view. His last points about the pope are spot on, however.
Don't step on my circles, though. Forgetting Carthage, the Bronze age civilizations and their achievements, Celtic druids...

[Anonymous No.11929372]

>>11925823
Follow my religion. It's the only way.

[Anonymous No.11929460]

>>11929126
>and their very own European genes told them this harsh treatment was unnecessary
Biological determinism is an insect ideology

[Anonymous No.11930642]

>>11929083
>wah_wah.jpg
Feels good to be a Catholic.
Thank God.

[Anonymous No.11930733]

Best work right here. John (Jean) Scheid is a French scholar and classicist who dedicated his entire life into not only documenting the religion of all people in the Roman Empire, but pulling it out of the propagandist forms that was spread.

[Anonymous No.11931228]

>>11929083
Is this fag aware that women were basically property of the man in Roman society?

[Anonymous No.11932097]

>>11931228
obviously not

[Anonymous No.11933027]

Boop

[Anonymous No.11933118]

>>11926224
whats bad about Leyellwen

[Anonymous No.11933434]

>>11933118
Lewellyn publishes 90% trash with rare gems like their edited English De Occulta Philosophia and certain grimoires difficult to find otherwise.

[Anonymous No.11933682]

>>11929126
Regarding women as evil is a patently Jewish attitude. Christians inherited that from the Jews. It's unbecoming of man to regard woman as such.

[Anonymous No.11934029]

>>11933682
>jews are all the things i dont like
In two days some anon is going to make the same comment but he'll say that the gender egalitarianism is inherently Jewish. Who is to be believed?
Do you have any basis for these claims or is my hatred of the Jews meant to propel me to agreement without thinking about it too hard?

[Anonymous No.11935396]

if you still hate the jews you haven't read enough books yet

[Anonymous No.11935863]

The Secret Teachings of All Ages

[Anonymous No.11936129]

>>11933434
Any other gems i should look for?

[Anonymous No.11936318]

>>11933682
So hated that we have the Virgin Mary being the highest of the creatures and of all saints.
Pure hatred I guess.