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/lit/ - Literature

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11901224 No.11901224 [Reply] [Original]

Just finished this and I am convinced that the only reason people like this book is because there was not much media back then and reading was one of the few enjoyments there was.

Takes forever to pick up both before and after the climax.

Then the after chapters are excruciating. I think JK Rowling's Book 5 of the Harry Potter series was better and I fucking hated that book.

Protag is a complete piece of shit, just when you be a little sympathetic towards him, he does something shitty making you hate him.

I still think it is worth a read for the conclusion because you just want to see where everyone ends up and the initial drama of after the climax was entertaining, but holy fuck was it a struggle. I mean I get it is supposed to be psychological, but it is hard to feel connect and understand someone who feels like he is not feeling any remorse. Literally only reason he does something right is because someone else tells him to go to that right path.

>> No.11901234

Yaiks the post.

>> No.11901238

>>11901224
I'm very sorry to hear that you are an NPC, OP

>> No.11901242

>>11901234
def could use some work. Was gonna put "outdated books" but that is not accurate. Literature is timeless, and in the end I don't think it was a complete waste of time. I read many classics and this one was one of the worst ones I read.

>> No.11901249

>>11901238
why is that? I thought I explained what I disliked about it well.

>> No.11901352

Then you're a fucking idiot.

>> No.11901412
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11901412

>I think JK Rowling's Book 5 of the Harry Potter series was better and I fucking hated that book.
>Protag is a complete piece of shit, just when you be a little sympathetic towards him, he does something shitty making you hate him.
hey I have a website for you to check out

>> No.11901430

>>11901412
It is the worst classic I ever read and I can't think of any other book that was shitty where the protag is constantly struggling with himself while doing something horrible and going "why does bad shit happen to me"

>> No.11901460

>reading C&P because of the conflict, climax, and resolution
>thinking of C&P as a fucking 21st century YA novel
>Not looking into the book not as a linear story with a beginning, middle, and end but rather as the story of a broken man and the themes and concepts expressed through the book that people can relate to and understand

OP, yer a pleb

>> No.11901469

>>11901430
Clearly you've never read the Quran

>> No.11901474

>>11901460
>story of a broken man and the themes and concepts expressed through the book that people can relate to and understand
Broken? Guy is a straightup sociopath. He commits murder and doesn't feel guilty about it until some chick finally convinces him to confess. Otherwise, he wouldn't have confessed. Hard to feel sympathy for a guy like him.

>> No.11901477

>>11901224
Wait, wasn't it published periodically in some newspaper ? The first readers of C & P read it because it was in their paper, that's all. And maybe they bought the paper to read it, but still - it's not like they bought a book. It's also pretty obvious judging from the end of several chapters ("And then something completely unpredicted happened").

I mean, OP is obviously right but it's no big deal.
And the regular pseuds are gonna rage and call him names, no big deal either.

>> No.11901483

>>11901477
If that was true, that would explain alot of questions.

>> No.11901492

>>11901474
So you have to feel sympathy for the protag to enjoy a book at all?

>> No.11901498

>>11901469
Read the Bible. Had some good parts in it, but the old testament when The Kingdom of Israel was the worst. I skipped most of it. Mostly a bunch of people sucking god's and the king's dick.

Favorite Books was the Book of Ruth, read it time to time to understand what a man should be like.

>> No.11901501

>>11901224
He actually feels remorse, that's the whole point of the book.

>> No.11901509

>>11901501
He does for like a second, but then he realizes he can get away with it and continues to play coy the entire second part of the book. He stops acting like he has remorse and switches to full on sociopath mode. Like I said, he wouldn't have confessed if his lady friend did not convince him.

>> No.11901541

>>11901492
no, like I said, I still think it is worth a read just to see how everything ties up because there are alot of subplots going on, but I am saying the protag is extremely dislikable because in some chapters it shows he shows remorse and all of a sudden switches back to no remorse sociopath mode. It almost seems like he is lying to the reader and pretending he is showing remorse. It is also more dislikable because he ends up doing other terrible deeds as well along with his lack of empathy.

However, >>11901477
might have cleared it up why he does that.

>> No.11901570

>>11901509
his confession to her is invalid? he must have known, given her faith, what she'd have told him to do.

>> No.11901586

>>11901224
Anglo: the post

>> No.11901596

>>11901570
He already had the thought of getting away with it long after he confessed to her his crimes.

>> No.11901624

>>11901596
That’s the point, that’s his struggle. He repeatedly refers to himself as a coward because he knows what he did was wrong and he wants to turn himself in as a form of atonement but at the same time he fears the repercussions too much. He is constantly trying to convince himself that what he did was okay but the longer he waits to repent, the worse his psyche deteriorates. By the end of the book he has waited so long and the weight of his actions has weighed upon him so heavily that there’s not much left of his old self there.

>> No.11901645

>>11901596
in that situation you wouldn't consider all possibilities? his guilt manifests in his actions, the illness is a symptom of his guilt to an extent, just because raskolnikov doesn't think to himself "i feel guilt" doesn't mean his conscience is clear.

>> No.11901650

>>11901224
>Lets be proudly ignorant about literature on the literature board.
The state of this fucking site, god damn.

>> No.11901662

>>11901474
>>11901596
Raskolnikov's whole motive for the murder was to prove to himself that he was a great man like Napoleon who could surpass common morality on his path to greatness. He quickly realizes his mistake and feels guilty pretty early on, which is emphasized by his illness and shattered state-of-mind. The book's focus isn't on how guilty he felt, but whether or not his sporadic acts of charity are suitable penance. C&P isn't about getting away with the crime in the eyes of the law, but about personal and spiritual redemption. You either speedread the book or are trolling

>> No.11901664

>>11901624
>By the end of the book he has waited so long and the weight of his actions has weighed upon him so heavily that there’s not much left of his old self there.
You sure about that? It almost seemed like the protaginists just given up caring and had transformed into what he hated most. This is indicated when he is not forced, but chooses to do more evil deeds in hopes of a better outcome. He is far behind remorseful at that point.

>>11901645
I would, but it is not his guilt that manifest actions, it is his actions manifest guilt and he constantly does action. He pretty much is digging himself into a bigger hole because of the actions he chooses to do after the murder.

>> No.11901688

>>11901664
its an action that manifests guilt, post-murder his guilt is manifested in action

>> No.11901689

>>11901662
>Raskolnikov's whole motive for the murder was to prove to himself that he was a great man like Napoleon who could surpass common morality on his path to greatness
I doubt that. Pretty sure the money was the bigger motivation considering he was poor and his sister was considering marrying into money.

The whole Napoleon spiel was his justification and coping of the intent murder rather than his motive.

>> No.11901719

>>11901689
you are supposed to pay attention while reading the book, you know?

>> No.11901742

>reading books merely for enjoyment and entertainment

>> No.11901749

>>11901719
I was. Like I said, his motive was primarily money. He did try to justify it by saying great men have murdered and morality did not matter to them. Seems to have been more of a terrible reasoning to get ready for the murder.

>> No.11901762

>>11901689
I agree in a sense, but if money was the main issue, not resisting his sister's marriage would have been the much easier option. Instead Rodion takes it upon himself to get the money himself. By choosing murder, he is not only removing the need for his sister's marriage, but is also trying to turn his shit life around; he thinks the ability to overcome the morality barrier of the act would be the first step to greatness.

>> No.11901767

pretty dumb post. I can't even think of a good answer to this.

>> No.11901844

>i didn't understand it so that means it's bad!
Classic brainlet behaviour. Choosing to lash out in fear at anything that exposes his complete lack of intelligence instead of using it as a tool to expand his mind

>> No.11901947

>>11901844
I thought I explained it pretty well in this thread.

>>11901762
It is simply another reason why he needs the money. It is no longer just him, but someone he holds dear increasing his motivation to follow through. He basically doesn't want to sell his sister off for marriage.

I can agree that breaking the morality barrier to become a great man is a complement/secondary to his primary motive, but his main motive was never to do it for that. It was always money.

I doubt he would have considered following through on breaking his "morality barrier" and ascending if he actually had money and had no issue.

>> No.11901967

>>11901224
The only reason books in general were ever popular is because video games didn't exist for most of human history.

>> No.11901968

His guilt permeated the entire book after the murder. How could you miss it?

>> No.11901988

OP doesnt know how to fucking read a story

>> No.11901990

>>11901947
And he never would have resulted to murder if that desire to elevate himself wasn't present in the first place. Money is the impetus, as he wouldn't have murdered needlessly, but it is definitely not the core issue of his character or the novel.

>> No.11902002

>>11901968
He would literally be cold and uncaring 1 chapter and the next chapter be somewhat emotional and do something terrible to dig himself into a bigger hole.

>> No.11902017

>>11901990
>And he never would have resulted to murder if that desire to elevate himself wasn't present in the first place
Yeah exactly, like I said it is a compliment. His primary motivation to get money to solve his monetary issues with himself and family.

>> No.11902040

>>11902017
That was to point out the circular reasoning. >Money is the impetus, as he wouldn't have murdered needlessly, but it is definitely not the core issue of his character or the novel.
is the important part.

>> No.11902047

>>11902040
I hit enter fuck you computer

>> No.11902072

>>11902002
That’s because his name means “split” in Russian. Read Notes From Underground.

>> No.11902115

>>11901474
imagine being this spooked by common morality
you really are an NPC

>> No.11902173
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11902173

>>11902002
Wow it's almost as if the character has a history of acting against themselves, as demonstrated by their incapability of staying in school with a nice translation gig. Maybe it's even representative of his conflicting desires to evade the law and redeem himself, or the general struggle of the average man between carnal desires and higher, spiritual ideals.

>> No.11902265

>>11902173
>even representative of his conflicting desires to evade the law
It is ever clear he has a desire to evade the law. Very clear in fact.
>redeem himself
He only decides to redeem himself after his lady friend convinces him to. He seemed fine in the later chapters when he realizes he had gotten away with it.

>> No.11902337

this whole thread is b8

>> No.11902367

>>11902337
Your mom was b8 and I’m sorry to say son but I took it.

>> No.11902509

Agree with you OP. Dostoevsky wrote boring a fuck pulpy shit. I can forgive him because it's so of it's time. I can't forgive the pseuds who pretend it's profound

>> No.11902683
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11902683

>>11901224

>> No.11902732

>>11901947
You're completely disregarding the motive involving the abuse the sister suffered and how piece-of-shit the lady was. He thought he was making the world a better place, proving to himself he could transcend morality and start crafting the world to his vision (like Napoleon, as people have already stated(which is representative of the modernist narrative of great men and the nihilistic-yet-violent optimism of city dwelling russian students at the time) and which I think you are really not giving enough credit to), as well as acquiring the finances he needs to start on his 'path to glory' or whatever. People aren't saying you didn't understand the book because you didn't explain yourself well, they're saying it because your explanation reveals that you did not understand it.

>> No.11902842

>>11902509
epic

>> No.11902864

Infinite Jest

>> No.11902866

>>11902509
Based and redpilled

>> No.11902914

is this bait? bc im getting baited so hard OP, im getting visibly flustered and triggered. never again talk about this masterpiece like that, you disgusting plebeian.

FUCK YOU, NIGGA, raskolnikov went through hell and back in his internal suffering. you missed the fucking point of the book

>> No.11902953

>>11901224
I never understood the allure of 'The scarlet letter' and 'Tess of the d'urbervilles'. I had to read both for school, and had to force myself even to open them.

>> No.11903002

>>11902017
Dude, you are disregarding the historical context of the book to push your explanation, do you even understand how big Napoleon really was at the time? The point was that Napoleon could send thousands of people to death and at the end of the day he would go to sleep like nothing happened, Raskolnikov wanted to find out if he's capable of doing the same.

>> No.11903008

>>11901224
> there was not many sources of entertainment back then
> OP really doesn't know that 19th century bookshops were full of low quality entertainment literature
> OP probably sees little difference between 19th century and 12th century

>>11901477
Just like lots of other contemporary books, it was serialized in a respected literary journal.

>> No.11903016

>>11901689
Whooppa-looppa-dooppa, he didn't use any of super important money in the end.

>> No.11903329
File: 490 KB, 449x401, 70F163A5-FE32-4184-B11F-316C6A993FAB.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11903329

>>11901224
>Protag is a complete piece of shit, just when you be a little sympathetic towards him, he does something shitty making you hate him.

>> No.11904848

>>11903329
The Stranger

>> No.11904872

>>11901430

I'm sorry OP but you're a turbopleb who didn't even understand the point the book was making despite it beating you over the head with it

>> No.11905706
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11905706

How has no one yet mentioned that Dosto invented a whole new genre of crime fiction with this book?

>> No.11905726

>>11905706
didn't Poe write mystery stories before C&P?

>> No.11905753

>>11901474
What? The entire reason Rodja struggles through the entire book before confessing and finding relief is because he felt guilty. He knew deep down that whatever rationalization he had used to commit the act that it was wrong.

>> No.11905811

>>11901474
>The whole novel is about Raskolnikov's inner conflict
>sociopath

I don't think you know what the meaning of sociopath is. Either that or you're trolling.

>> No.11905877

>>11901224
>when you be a little sympathetic towards him, he does something shitty making you hate him
hating the protagonist doesn't make a book any worse you absolute fucking pleb

>> No.11905881

>Not liking a book because the character is a piece of shit
WOW GOOD JOB WELL DONE

>> No.11905887

>>11901430
Raskolnikov doesn't give a shit about killing those two for the most part, the reason he starts to struggle is that he realized he is not the ubermensch changing the world he thought he was, thats the fucking point of the book

>> No.11905898

>>11901224
Is this whats its like to be an npc??

>> No.11905953

I seriously can't tell if this thread is bait or not. This shit reads like a /tv/ post.

>> No.11907422

>>11901474
Been a while since I read the book, but isn't there a point where he literally confesses to the person investigating the murders only for the investigator to chalk it up to Raskolnikov's illness?

>> No.11907684

>>11905726
Dosto invented the psychological cat-and-mouse detective genre; Poe invented the detective who uses deductive reasoning. The most recent example of the former is probably "Death Note," while Sherlock Holmes is the best example of the latter.

>> No.11908317

>>11901541
I mean I know that everyone has an opinion and diversity is strength etc. But you have just convinced me that college is not for everyone, as well as literacy.

>> No.11908323

>>11901224
You're wrong.