/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11887802]

Is it possible to be a true artist without being tortured?

[Anonymous No.11887807]

>>11887802
How about I come to your place and tie your twink ass up. How's that for torture you fuck

[Anonymous No.11887809]

>>11887807
Excuse me?

[Anonymous No.11887814]

>>11887807
rude

[Anonymous No.11887880]

>>11887802
I think art is often a creative transmutation of suffering and tension into beauty, yes.

[Anonymous No.11887894]

>>11887802
seeking out torture is goofy

[Anonymous No.11887913]

Of course, but it's rare.
You usually sublimate the longing for a loving mommy to artistic creation. That's why it is often so intense and you can pour your whole soul to it.
If you were normal you could use this life power outwards and not introspectively.

[Anonymous No.11887940]

>>11887894
who said anything about seeking

[Anonymous No.11887956]

>>11887940
some people do this

[Anonymous No.11887965]

Some of my best work was back when I was a depressed drug addict in college on the verge of killing myself, but I think that had more to do with not leaving my room and writing for fourteen hours a day.

[Anonymous No.11887977]

>>11887965
At many points in his life,Beethoven literally forgot to/didn't eat

[Anonymous No.11888017]

>>11887802

yes, just look at almost every renaissance artist. They weren't all tortured angsty individuals, art was a craft to them, something to be practiced at daily, not to pull out of your ass when youre crying cause tfw shitty life.

[Anonymous No.11888041]

>>11887880
faps at those words*

[Anonymous No.11888069]

>>11887977
Did Beethoven tell you that?

[Anonymous No.11888080]

>>11888069
Yeah, my grandfather shared a dorm room with him back in the day. Guy would literally piss in bottles during his composing sprees.

[Anonymous No.11888081]

>>11888069
i recall reading that beethoven had a maid or something who literally had to bring him food during his manic phases where'd he just stay shut in for days at a time

[Anonymous No.11888088]

nope

NPC:s don't suffer and can't create art

[Anonymous No.11888090]

>>11888081
>rich white man relies on maid to serve him

whoa... deep

[Anonymous No.11888104]

>>11888090
imagine your mind being so poisoned by resentment that this is what you take from an anecdote of a famous genius' struggle with madness

[Anonymous No.11888113]

>>11888104
imagine being such a brainlet sentimentalist you have to construct and perpetuate trite legends about someone's behaviour to justify his other-worldliness

kill yourself unironically

[Anonymous No.11888115]

>>11888104
he might just be shitposting
but yeah decent change he's unhinged

[Anonymous No.11888116]

>>11887802
No.
Proof: I’ve lived my whole life as an upper middle class prep school kid and everything has been handed to me on a silver platter. Despite this, I still write quality literature. I’ve even been to a couple events/contests where all the poor people go and I was definitely the best one there. Now that I think about it though, it is possible that my lack of suffering is actually a form of suffering in its own right. Hmmmm....in that case is it even possible to avoid suffering? Does being human not ensure suffering?

[Anonymous No.11888129]

@>11888116
>I still write quality literature
>I’ve even been to a couple events/contests

[Anonymous No.11888131]

>>11888113
nothing otherwordly about genius or mental problems, if anything it's a relatable little story

but muh white men, muh elites, resent away my resentful little friend

[Anonymous No.11888142]

>>11888131
>he didn't even eat sometimes!
>he had to rely on his maid (her job) to bring him food!
>I can't believe how human he is!
>He's just like me! I can relate!

[Anonymous No.11888145]

>>11888129
>cant even reply to a post properly
What’s your point?

[Anonymous No.11888146]

>>11888116
Welcome to Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.11888148]

>>11888145
what do you think this is kindo, reddit?

[Anonymous No.11888152]

>>11888116
>>11888145
absolutely based

[Anonymous No.11888153]

>n-n-no how dare you deny me my (you) dopamine hit

[Anonymous No.11888157]

>>11888116
Chances are poor people have more interesting things to say, they just didn't mechanically learn the way to express properly

[Anonymous No.11888163]

>>11888148
>kindo
>plebbit
Take your own advice lad
>>11888153
>thinking I care about (You)s

[Anonymous No.11888167]

@@11888163
>he can't even grok what a kindo is
Get off this board

[Anonymous No.11888176]

>>11888157
That’s probably true, all of y rich friends are boring so I mainly hang around poor folk. One of the first stories I ever got published was just a retelling of my friend’s actual life. He was a very interesting person but he couldn’t capitalize on it due to his weak writing ability.

[Anonymous No.11888183]

>>11888167
T.

[Anonymous No.11888186]

>>11888142
you're too angry anon

[Anonymous No.11888191]

>>11888157
i don't think so. being forced to think about worldly problems is probably detrimental imo

[Anonymous No.11888209]

>>11888157
depends on the type of poor person. proles are not necessarily very interesting but lumpenproles almost always are.

[Anonymous No.11888211]

>11888183
>Er ist ein behinderter einsprachiger Amerikaner

[Anonymous No.11888216]

>>11888090
>rich white man

easy there shitskin

[Anonymous No.11888218]

you're sucking some serious dick now man

[Anonymous No.11888349]

>>11888116
You could just have boring surroundings. Being interesting as a rich person is all about having done something really impressive in business or in public policy or being really mentally ill. My friend group includes a lot of full diagnosed type I bipolar rich kids. They are really fascinating. So you're gonna need to get a drug addiction or something before you produce top tier writing. Rich people problems are also better for spurring quality literature as they are more internal and existential while poor people problems are mainly about being in shitty conditions or unsafe social systems. That said the middle class makes the shittiest literature. Real upper class are also more interesting than upper-middles

[Anonymous No.11888569]

>>11887802
The whole tortured artist fetishization is a relatively new phenomenon. There were plenty of people who made art without the diagnosis of mental illness or other phobias. The term true artist is a strange thing to think about as well. Who would meet that ideal?

[Anonymous No.11888677]

>>11888116
Post excerpts

[Anonymous No.11888688]

>>11888104
imagine your mind being so poisoned by reddit that this is what you take from a bait post

[Anonymous No.11888729]

The tortured artist meme is silly. Everything depends on talent, and no amount of suffering can make you a good artist if you don't have talent.

But the main reason it exists is because once you've realized you have the potential to channel beauty instantaneously, the rest of the world suddenly takes a backseat to that feeling. As a result it's very easy to fuck up daily life stuff and send your life hurtling downwards because you just want to create more. Not to mention the angst that comes from the usual lack of approbation since the neglect of artists until later has been a standard thing throughout human history.

[Anonymous No.11888738]

>>11888729
>channel beauty instantaneously

Never in my years on this website have I ever encountered such a pseudo-intellectual, brainlet stringing of words.

My God...

[Anonymous No.11888741]

>>11888738
It's a real thing though you talentlet, the archetype is Mozart

[Anonymous No.11888747]

>>11888741
>i watched Amadeus

[Anonymous No.11888758]

>>11888747
Have you listened to Mozart's music? Compare it to the complete opposite version of genius, someone like Wagner or Beethoven who labors endlessly on their work and kind of tortures the beauty out of themselves. It's very evident

If you want another famous dichotomy, Michaelangelo and da Vinci

[Anonymous No.11888773]

>>11888758
>Compare it to the complete opposite version of genius, someone like Wagner or Beethoven who labors endlessly on their work and kind of tortures the beauty out of themselves. It's very evident

What a load of unsupported word salad

let me guess, you'll come back with some exaggerated anecdotes about mozarts life?

[Anonymous No.11888796]

>>11887802
When nothing's wrong you have nothing to say.

[Anonymous No.11888819]

>>11887807
But that isnt torture

[Anonymous No.11888829]

>>11888142
Dude
Like
Dude
Like...

Dude

DOOD

Dude... Dude. Dude. dude. Like dude whoa. U jus like totally blu my mind ... like im jus feelin this extream guilt and shame now over bein a privileged shallow white male. I don’t even kno what to say excep take this upboat for winning all the tumblrs and all Reddit’s!

[Anonymous No.11888840]

>>11888738
I'm not >>11888741 btw

But what he says is true. I can improvise a new tune from a few notes very easily, and, in some of my dreams, I've heard whole symphonies before. The only problem is that I've never had formal training in music so I lack the skills to refine it into something proper. I've also experienced the same thing with paintings in that I can create images within my mind easily but I don't have the muscle memory needed to translate it into something tangible. I've had interesting experiences just closing my eyes, listening to music, and simultaneously developing visual cascades within my head.

So of the above leads me to believe that raw creativity is general, and transferable from one field to another, but it's all based on complete luck and a person's pre-built dispositions + environment as to whether that pattern recognition and recombinative talent is channeled into art, or whether it peters out and fades away.

[Anonymous No.11888841]

>>11888773
Zomg Dude like whoa u just destroyed all my preconceived notions and concepts about artistry!! You are so cool and cynical and making a really important point! Whoa dude it’s almost like I’m over-romanticizing and worshiping artists and giving them a mystique they don’t really have!! There’s nothing cool or interesting about creative genius!! See >>11888829. Now that you’ve gotten the response you’ve wanted, kindly fuck off, you useless contrarian.

[Anonymous No.11888851]

>>11887802
>hasn't asked a torturer about his wood burning skills.
>hasn't eaten the ripe mangoes of the man who eats the left eyes out of every thing he kills, everything.
>hasn't read a fucking history book ever.
>never did the insert without random blurb

[Anonymous No.11889000]

>>11888758
>you know that super famous artist?? yeah he's a total failure because <other artist with a different style> existed
lmao

[Anonymous No.11889008]

i wonder if posting on this shithole website full of spastics for 10 years counts as torture

but the real pain comes from the fact that no matter how bad this place is, or how much worse it's getting the rest of the internet is worse and getting worse faster

[Anonymous No.11889080]

>>11889000
Nice reading comprehension

Nowhere did the post say that Beethoven and Wagner were failures, but all you have to do is to compare them to Mozart's prolific oeuvre, his consistent quality, and how he achieved it all before his death at 35 years old.

[Anonymous No.11889124]

>>11888840
There is the old cliche that art is the execution, that the meaning is the message.

>I can improvise a new tune from a few notes very easily, and, in some of my dreams
>so I lack the skills to refine it into something proper
You either improvise well or you don't. Considering that you finished that statement saying that you lacked the skills to make it good means it is bad. To badly improvise is no achievement.

>I've heard whole symphonies before
The ability to concretely hear and compose in your head what notes all the instruments of an orchestra are doing: to understand the ranges and timbers of all the instruments, to understand the way they blend, to understand the forms, both macro and micro that make up each movement requires an enormous amount of theoretical and practical knowledge, as well as years of ear training. I can guarantee that what you heard was a mess that would be impossible to get any combination of instruments to sound like, would be lacking in form and would be uninteresting to everyone but yourself.
When one learns the piano one is meant to record themselves playing so they can watch after. Most people notice a massive discrepancy between how they think they are playing at the time and how they actually sound. It would be like that but times a thousand.

>I can create images within my mind easily but I don't have the muscle memory needed to translate it into something tangible
You can do the easiest part of doing a painting, one that isn't informed by how you would create it. The paints, canvas size, painting utensils and style all influence the composition. It's not so much muscle memory that you are lacking back the knowledge of everything about how to paint. A similar comparison would be like saying the only things separating you from a great mathematician is his ability to use a piece of chalk well. You would probably find that your mental compositions are impossible to realise and thus won't be of interest to people with actual skill in painting. Painting is problem solving. How does one achieve the illusion of X. If you don't know anything about brush technique, of line, of colour theory, of the properties of the paint you cannot do any problem solving. It's like saying I can imagine myself being the chess world champion, or I can imagine the final position of the board of a game that therefore I am as good as the chess world champion or that I won that game respectively.

[Anonymous No.11889140]

>>11889124
Ive been teaching myself to paint for the past few months and it is crazy just how involved the process is, i literally lose track of time because of how much concentration, thinking outside the box, and pure effort is required to try to both get the thing down how i want it and also to develop and refine the image as I go, as new things occur to me.

Makes me have a lot of appreciation for actual painters

[Anonymous No.11889144]

>>11889140
Post your work

[Anonymous No.11889155]

>>11889144
bro my 'work' is garbage. I've been painting the same painting for a month now, I do maybe 2 hours a night on it. It's a mess

maybe in like 5 years i will post my 'work' when it becomes more than mere experimentation from an amateur who knows nothing

[Anonymous No.11889250]

>>11887802
No more or less than being a non-artist, though in general I'd say artists are a privileged and resourceful bunch compared to the common run. It might only seem otherwise, since the many ways down and out go almost entirely without such personal records for posterity to witness, when things do not go well.

[Anonymous No.11889297]

>>11889155
Ah I was just curious because you don’t see many people on /lit/ who try to learn visual art and I’ve also been trying my hand at it. Mostly with drawing like pic related though, and not painting like you. It’s cool if you don’t wanna share.

[Anonymous No.11889384]

>>11887802
Building on what >>11887913 said; yes, it's rare, and generalizing the mommy thing, which can be true, the good artist must posses some need. Like a serious need. Like a lifelong deprivation that has haunted them daily for years. And years. The remedy to this privation has been lost to time. In some cases the remedy never was. Some were doomed from the start. And that hurts. And the hurt accumulates. And they channel this hurt. And every once in a while, this hurt transforms, and manifests as something beautiful.

[Anonymous No.11889388]

>>11887807
* blushes *
h-hot

[Anonymous No.11889611]

>>11889124
Yea, I've done painting and played instruments before. I know that the stuff that I can manifest in my head is different from the complexity and rigidity of a full blown Beethoven or a Vermeer, and, ultimately, writing was what I chose to focus on because its silly to spread creativity on a bunch of different mediums and dilute it.

But the stuff that distinguishes a Vermeer from any other realist painter, or a Bach from any of the other technically superb baroque composer that existed during his time who mastered whatever theorized form like the fugue or sonata, or a poem of Robert Frost from any other poets who write in classical metered form, or a Tarkovsky from other filmmakers, even those that try to pull of the same slow poetic style - comes from the same source - which the ability to sense deeper patterns and transmute it into a communicable format. The sense of ineffable greatness, built on a logical structure and individuated through every great creator only depends partially on the technicalities of the medium.

If not, any of your by-the-numbers concept artist who has superb knowledge of 3point perspective and can construct a superb illusion of a dog in 2d space, would be considered a great artist as well. Yet everyone remembers the flatter perspective, and murky, violent, and maybe even ugly colours of Van Gogh's Sunflowers way more than a plethora of academically trained still-lifers, because he was able to tap into the same stuff that Beethoven or Frost tapped into. He simply had the creative vision separate from technical skill.

[Anonymous No.11889621]

>>11889611
one of the more arrogant posts Ive ever seen here lol. Im not even saying you're wrong but jesus

[Anonymous No.11889745]

>>11887802
No. The torment is an intrinsic part of pure artistry, relinquish your sufferings to embrace joy, and you shall see your essence disappear from your works.

[Anonymous No.11889925]

>>11888157

ya explains why most of the worlds famous writers came from middle class to upper class families you fucking memer.

One of the few poor writers i recall john clare was looked down upon for his social standing and his own class mocked him. Poor people are cancerous when it comes to the creative arts.

[Anonymous No.11889929]

>>11887802
yeah just make art

[Anonymous No.11889952]

This assumes that to be human isn’t to suffer, and it is. Fag.

It’s more accurate to ask “ what role does mental illness and nuanced perspective play in the creative process”

We’re always emoting and being creative even In casual conversations, but the works that get noticed are original and fresh. Not to mention plenty of creative people describe themselves as happy all these emotional descriptions like “ tortured” are simply transcendent passing time frames.


Bitch ass faggot.

[Anonymous No.11889955]

>>11889925
The best painters of all time were poor and painting is way more difficult than writing. All you did was prove the nepotistic nature of writing and publishing books. That’s also one of the reasons why visual art is the purer medium.

[Anonymous No.11889956]

>>11889925
That was when people with money were the only ones who could make art or even have time to read and write. Now we’re all rich and have free time. There’s nothing intrinsic about wealth and creativity you fucking nigger.

[Anonymous No.11890072]

>>11889611
Robert Frost is Hallmark card tier. I hope you're focused on writing fiction and not poetry.

[Anonymous No.11890076]

>>11889952
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.11890090]

>>11889955

Not true at all.

There was a guild system that was in place for arts and crafts for hundreds of years in most of europe, which you would likely not be apart of unless you had rigorous training for years or an apprenticeship.

I'd like to know how many renaissance artists you can point out to me that were "poor" and rose to fame without any patronage or funding. How about baroque, neoclassical, etc etc etc.

Then even after the guild system was abolished you still would probably not be an artist unless you came from a family of decent means who could provide for you to run off to art school which was looked down upon and did not guarantee a living.

"Poor" painters is legitimately a new concept in the last 100 years.

>>11889956

But there certainly was something intrinsic about wealth and creativity for almost all of modern history, once again you were probably not going to be studying latin and the greeks and philosophy etc etc for most of history unless you came from a wealthy knowledgeable family. Times have changed in the modern age of course, we don't have to work in farms for all our lives.

[Anonymous No.11890093]

>>11890076
nah it was inarticulate and stupefying, cringe and bluepilled

[Anonymous No.11890102]

>>11890072
>only read shorter poems and not longer narrative poems where Frost captures plainspoken dialogue in form

Lel

[Anonymous No.11890181]

If you would hand me all your dicks i would carve them to be more appropriate to your settings

I have a knife anons, I get this

[Anonymous No.11890188]

>>11890093
> stupefying,
sign of a small mind
mere idiotic phrases bring you to stupor

[Anonymous No.11890194]

>>11890188
Not that anon but this would sound a lot wittier if you didn't shorten your sentences and drop capitalizations like a lazy twit.

Try again, dear boy.

[Anonymous No.11890202]

>>11890194
im am very drunk
kiss me and suck my dick i guess

[Anonymous No.11890228]

>>11890188
lol no its just gay and juvenile like your midwit ironic retorts are faggot

[Anonymous No.11890554]

Creating what we call art leads to mental illness. Creation of a craft, or the creation of a large family of wife and offspring is the source of a healthful mind.

[Anonymous No.11890593]

>>11890554
lol i dont think they thought that at any time period

[Anonymous No.11890655]

>>11890554
Only a diseased mind would want to perpetuate more suffering in the world through a proliferation of lives they could'nt take care of properly. Art is able to sate the beastial urge to procreate and leads to a longer eternity of one's name.

[Anonymous No.11891456]

>>11887802
yes

[Anonymous No.11891640]

>>11888116
suffering or lack there off is part of the over-arching human condition, which we dont fully understand
but in a way, each breads its polar opposite ; thought suffering people learn to accept the bad, and the adaptation to pain/discomfort makes them strong and comfortable in more situations and the vice versa

[Anonymous No.11892554]

>>11887807
Holy shit. Where are you? OwO

[Anonymous No.11892562]

[Anonymous No.11892600]

>>11887802
"tortured" isn't a very appropriate word because it connotes a motivated torturer. "A true artist suffers for his work" would be much more agreeable. The act of creation requires sacrifice of some kind, which implies suffering of some kind, not particularly in the tormenting variety, but suffering as in experiencing a loss, having to relinquish something one holds personally dear. The greater the sacrifice, the greater the art.

[Anonymous No.11892614]

yes.

all the "writers" "musicians" and "artists" who turn their life to shit with dysfunctional, self-sabotaging behaviour are hilarious.

lol

[Anonymous No.11892689]

>>11892600
suffering can make an artist before he takes to his craft

[Anonymous No.11892703]

>>11892600
How does art require any more of a sacrifice than the time commitment required of any high-end profession?

[Anonymous No.11892739]

>>11892703
It doesn't; the high-end profession, or rather the fruits of said profession, would simply be your art in that case. My point in making the distinction between suffering and torture was to separate myself from the typical views of people who refer to Gogh as an exemplary artist, who seem to think art is about negating the material to a neurotic and foolish degree.

[Anonymous No.11892911]

>>11890090
Yes, who do you think went through the rigorous training? The poor folks who didn’t have anything else. The people who needed shelter and other shit that came with being an assistant. Da Vinci was born a bastard with nothing to his name.

[Anonymous No.11893705]

>>11888157
Barton Fink explores this concept. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qO4fwW_aSg

[Anonymous No.11893726]

>>11892911

Da vinci was born to a wealthy father, without whom he would've never had the connections to become an artist.

He also lived with said father when he was in his youth, try again m8.

The memer i was responding to specifically said "the best painters of all time were poor" which is a complete falsehood.

[Anonymous No.11893855]

>>11887802
What is a poet? An unhappy man who conceals profound anguish in his heart, but whose lips are so fashioned that when sighs and groans pass over them they sound like beautiful music. His fate resembles that of the unhappy men who were slowly roasted by a gentle fire in the tyrant Phalaris' bull—their shrieks could not reach his ear to terrify him, to him they sounded like sweet music. And people flock about the poet and say to him: do sing again; Which means, would that new sufferings tormented your soul, and: would that your lips stayed fashioned as before, for your cries would only terrify us, but your music is delightful. And the critics join them, saying: well done, thus must it be according to the laws of aesthetics. Why, to be sure, a critic resembles a poet as one pea another, the only difference being that he has no anguish in his heart and no music on his lips. Behold, therefore would I rather be a swineherd on Amager, and be understood by the swine than a poet, and misunderstood by men.

[Anonymous No.11893983]

>>11890090
You are the type of guy that submits to authority and that thinks art = good construction.

[Anonymous No.11894417]

>>11887880
Well then aren't you basically saying it's not possible then ? You're still saying you have to suffer in order to transform it into beauty

[Anonymous No.11895211]

Where do I go to get tortured /lit/?

[Anonymous No.11895238]

>>11888796
underrated

[Anonymous No.11895247]

>>11893855
christ you fucking insufferable cunt

[Anonymous No.11895250]

>>11895247
>can't recognize Kierkegaard

pleb

[Anonymous No.11895255]

>>11888796
Wallace Stevens, "Study of Two Pears"

I
Opusculum paedagogum.
The pears are not viols,
nudes or bottles.
They resemble nothing else.

II
They are yellow forms
Composed of curves
Bulging toward the base.
They are touched red.

III
They are not flat surfaces
Having curved outlines.
They are round
tapering toward the top.

IV
In the way they are modelled
There are bits of blue.
A hard dry leaf hangs
From the stem.

V
The yellow glistens.
It glistens with various yellows,
Citrons, oranges andn greens
Flowering over the skin.

VI
The shadows of the pears
Are blobs on the green cloth.
The pears are not seen
As the observer wills.

[Anonymous No.11895259]

>>11893983

That's pretty funny because i am an artist and my main inspiration when i was beginning was der brucke (pic related). Just because you don't like someones opinions doesn't mean you have to make baseless accusations.

If you'd like to have a proper discussion you can atleast put some facts into your comment.

[Anonymous No.11895641]

>>11888349
Noice

[Anonymous No.11895643]

>>11887802

It's not even possible to live without being tortured

[Anonymous No.11896171]

>>11887965
Can we read some?

[Anonymous No.11897000]

>>11887807
The gay mafia is on every single board fagging the place up

[Anonymous No.11897118]

Art like literature originates from either a reverence for beauty or respect for pain. An artist, depending on their affinities, will be oriented to one of these poles or the other in their work. Van Gogh (just to take an obvious example) was clearly there to transmit beauty, but to do so there had to be tremendous pain, which he also respected.

Other artists seem to glide through life with their freewheeling ways and escape the great maw of pain perhaps such as Picasso or Da Vinci.

[Anonymous No.11897169]

>>11887807
Pls be in London

[Anonymous No.11897201]

the holy written book of jesus a.k.a the Bible my homeskillet

[Anonymous No.11897415]

yeah I'm sure all the artists making movies, cartoons, video games are miserable.

[Anonymous No.11897424]

>>11897415
>artists making cartoons, video games

hahahah come on dude

[Anonymous No.11897487]

>>11888773
This post is a prime example of a counter productive attitude.

[Anonymous No.11897506]

>>11887807
You can't get art this way. Engaging the eternal soul is more torturous than any of this pseud invocation to degeneracy.

[Anonymous No.11897908]

>>11888017
And it all sucked

[Anonymous No.11897918]

>>11887802
Of course it fucking is. Every day thousands of professional artists across the country make a career out of selling art and they run the spectrum from troubled to alpha-as-fuck

The reason we remember the troubled ones is the same reason nobody rubbernecks for a traffic accident that didn't happen

[Anonymous No.11897930]

>>11894417
I was just saying often. There’s a sort of magic to negative emotions, tension, stress, strain, I think. Other people try to ignore it by getting drunk or high, hanging out with friends, playing sports or games, etc. The artist transmutes it, works with it. The most beautiful thing in a lot of art is, I think, the sense of sadness, or of outrage. Life is outrageous and sad. It’s why works like Hamlet and King Lear are Shakespeare’s most lauded masterpieces, not works like As You Like It or Twelfth Night (although those are great works, too). Tragedy is beautiful, negative emotions are compelling.

[Anonymous No.11897942]

>>11897424
>what is craftsmanship

[Anonymous No.11897952]

>ctrl + f
>no "Sophocles"
Sophocles was probably the most joyful man in Athens, and he was a great artist

[Anonymous No.11897967]

>>11897000
>implying it wasn't the gay mafia that started Channel4
embrace your inner homo, anon..
also embrace gay bears, they are hot af;;

[Anonymous No.11898682]

>>11897918
Dali didn't really suffer, but he was just extremely kooky

[Anonymous No.11898686]

mike patton once said that if you purposely making yourself suffer to make "art" then that means you´re an idiot, you don´t have to be angsty to make good art

he´s right

[Anonymous No.11898694]

>>11897918
On top of that most people have problems - it's quite normal.

[Anonymous No.11898764]

>>11893855
>Behold, therefore would I rather be a swineherd on Amager, and be understood by the swine than a poet, and misunderstood by men.
Patrician af

[Anonymous No.11899862]

>>11887807
First post, best post.