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/lit/ - Literature

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1186107 No.1186107 [Reply] [Original]

Word to the wise: There is no such thing as "correct grammar." Language evolves over time and so do the rules that people use to communicate with each other in their respective languages. The idea that there is this Platonic grammar that we all have to follow is one of the most absurd modern inventions that I know of.

>> No.1186114

at least your arguments usually make sense anime troll. that makes you better than the other trolls on this shithole.

>> No.1186121
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1186121

>no such thing as correct grammar.

THEN WHY ARE YOU USING IT THEN?

>> No.1186125

>>1186121
/thread

>> No.1186127

>>1186121
I'm not using correct, Platonic grammar. I am using the grammar that I understand to communicate with you. There is nothing truly "correct" about it.

>> No.1186129

Wow, wonderful high school logical there. Sociocultural evolution in Western civilization has ended, and with it any serious changes to language. Good try though.

>> No.1186136

>>1186127
Show me where you're mistaken, if we follow the rules of "Platonic Grammar", then.

>> No.1186139

>>1186129
The fact that our language is no longer evolving quickly would not imply that our grammar is "correct". My point is that grammar is merely the rules we use to make our language comprehensible to others. I happen to think our language is evolving in some ways but that's not really relevant.

>> No.1186142
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1186142

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY

>> No.1186145

>>1186136
Your post does not make sense. My point is that such a grammatical system does not exist and we therefore no one can use it.

>> No.1186148

>>1186145
The post does not make sense because it follows not the rules of grammar.

>> No.1186154

>>1186139
Then there is no such thing as proper. If you're arguing that syntax is all relative, which is the only way you could NOT be arguing about the evolution of language and grammar at the same time, then whatever. That's full retard.

>> No.1186163

>>1186154
You're an idiot. I am not saying that syntax in the sense that you mean; it is obvious that we share the same rules of language with other people in our group. My point is that there is no "correct" syntax and that people that deviate from the norm are not wrong in any meaningful sense.

>> No.1186186

>>1186163
You sound like that middle school teacher that everyone had that would make it ever so clear that "grammar doesn't matter!". Guess what? The kids that believed that didn't do too hot on their standardized tests. So yeah, go ahead, say that grammar doesn't matter in any meaningful way. See if people don't look down upon poor grammar. What, that's just the conjecture of society that doesn't matter? Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about LANGUAGE, as in how society communicates.

Also, you say that "the fact that language is no longer evolving" previously when your initial post's whole argument is "language evolves over time".

FULL.

RETARD.

>> No.1186207

>>1186186
You are a complete idiot.

1. The fact that something is not correct doesn't mean that it is isn't important for other reasons so your entire argument, if we decide to be charitable and call it that, is non-responsive. This is a thread in which I am making a descriptive claim, not a normative one about how much using traditionally accepted grammatical rules matters.
2. I was not trying to use the fact that language evolves as a proof of my argument per se. I was using that to make people think about how people use language (in different ways) since it helps people to think about this issue.

>> No.1186242

>>1186207

You say that people use language differently. I say that no, they do not. We've reached the end of sociopolitical history and are very nearly and becoming every day an entirely homogeneous Western civilization. There are no cultural differences. There is jargon used in different fields, and proper grammar is less necessary in some of them, but there IS a proper form of grammar. Something doesn't lose the entirety of its worth as a result of lacking proper grammar, but proper grammar makes everything more coherent.

There is a line of common understanding through language, therefore there is proper grammar.

>> No.1186254

>>1186242
You just don't get it, do you? This isn't about how many people use language in the same way, it's about how objectively right the grammatical rules they use are.

>> No.1186275
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1186275

>people don't use language differently
>We've reached the end of sociopolitical history
>There are no cultural differences

>> No.1186281

>>1186254
Do you even hear yourself?

USE of language is by definition grammar.

If all people use language in the same fashion, there is a most correct fashion.

Therefore there IS proper grammar.

>> No.1186284

>>1186107
>new grammatical combinations are introduced to language over time
>English isn't a CFG
>Therefore there is no grammar
>cool story bro

>> No.1186286

>>1186275
Fukuyama and Huntington would like to have a word with you.

>> No.1186287

>>1186281
>the most used grammatical system is objectively right

le sigh

>> No.1186290

Serious post, here.
My grandfather was a Nazi. He was in a special research division in the concentration camps. As you probably know, they sent more than just jews to these camps. His job was to study homosexuals, and figure out what causes it. I won't repeat what he's told me they did, but some of it was pretty fucked up. Most of it, actually. Anyways, they ended up getting pretty conclusive findings. Here are some of the things they found would cause someone to become a homosexual.
1. Getting two of a recessive gene causing homosexuality from birth
2. (For a male) being raised without a father and sister
3. Being the original poster of a thread (such as this one)
4. (For a female) getting raped by a trusted male early on in life
5. Having drawn too many rainbows

He said that any one of these may cause homosexuality, but the first and third guaranteed it.

>> No.1186292

>>1186287
When you've reached the end of a system's development, the system that is increasingly becoming the ONLY system IS the correct one.

>> No.1186295

is your color green and my color green the same?

>> No.1186305

>If all people use language in the same fashion, there is a most correct fashion.
>all people use language in the same fashion

this is objectively wrong. and yes, you are trolling my face off.

>> No.1186318

>>1186142
lol. "French don't care what they do, actually, so long as they pronounce it properly."

>> No.1187462

Prescriptive vs. Descriptive grammar blah blah blah