[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 46 KB, 700x467, Qutb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11860383 No.11860383 [Reply] [Original]

Where to start with learning about Islam?

Preferably the type of Islam that tries to follow the religion in good faith instead of spending its time on finding loopholes with sophistry.

>> No.11860387

taqiyya

>> No.11860465

Talk to Muslims; they're the nicest people in the world and will be thrilled to hear that you want to learn about their lifestyle. and read the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of the Koran with the introduction and all footnotes (careful, some of the ones sold on Amazon don't include marginalia).

>> No.11861755
File: 19 KB, 527x279, TheRealJihad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11861755

>>11860465
>Muslims
>The nicest people in the world
Hahahaha

>> No.11861869

>>11861755
Muslims are pretty nice. A lot more hospitable than white people generally.

>> No.11861880

>>11861755
Most Muslims I've meet have been generally agreeable. In fact, the only Muslim I've met who was an asshole was one who was trying to leave the faith.

>> No.11861888

>>11861755
tv muslims aren't like most muslims, just like tv whites (kardashians, larry king, brad pitt) aren't like regular white people

>> No.11861894

>>11861880
can't blame a man for being a bit irritable when 1.5 billion people want you killed

>> No.11861895

>>11861869
Most I've met are pretty decent, but I've seen soe get a little aggressive in a debate with a street preacher.

>> No.11861897

>>11861869
Islam is based, precisely because it is not hospitable or tolerant.

>> No.11861899

>>11861888
>kardashians
>larry king
>white

nice bait

>> No.11861949

the persian muslims here in los angeles are nouveau riche turds like the kardashians. they're better than european muslims in that they aren't serious about their religion and are far less likely to be radicalized but they're still arrogant snobs who can't drive.

>> No.11862088

>>11860383
Secondary sources on the Qur'an,either that or learn Arabic and read it directly

>> No.11862093

>>11861755
MemriTV is the best thing to come from the middle east since civilization

>> No.11862213

>>11861949
can't fucking stand those la-type persian bitches
t.persian

>> No.11862289

I started reading some resources on Islam and it recommended I learn the fiqhs of some madhab. I chose Hanafi and started reading a book about it, they have all sorts of rules about what water to bath with, how to deal with your necessities, etc, but as I live in a industrialized urbane environment I don't think these are relevant to me.
A friend said I should go directly to the Qu'ran, but I'm not sure how to read it properly. I also fear I will end up accepting an archaic law system if I convert blindly.
Good luck brother, and I hope Allah guides both of us to the straight path

>> No.11862423

Certainly not with Syed Qutb (piss be upon him)
Maybe start with some of Henry Corbin's books?

>>11861949
The Tehrangeles "Persians" are only Persian in name, and origin. They're part of the le %56 face of USA. Their second and third generations are completely dissolved in the host society, with the 1st generation being delusional idiots.

Also honestly Westerners have a strange conception of Muslims. You consider them "Muslim" solely based on them coming from a far Muslim background, whereas they mostly aren't practicing, and a lot will outright repudiate Islam.

>> No.11862442

>>11862423
The serious Muslims are generally the pleasant ones (up to the point of violence/jihad, of course) and the half or non-practising ones are generally terrible people desu, at least here in the yuroghettos

>> No.11862452

Question to muzzies: Are fundamentalists actually more correct in their interpretation? Is salafism pure?

>> No.11862522

>>11862452
The question is nonsensical (no offense). There is no metric by which to judge correctness in this context.

>> No.11862553

>>11862093
And Christ. Don't forget Christ.

>> No.11862608

>>11860383
start with the eternal anglo muslim

https://youtu.be/CqaOV8wNYDA

>> No.11863136

Anyone here read Qutb's books? I think it'd be interesting to do so.

>> No.11863756

>>11861949
>are nouveau riche turds
that's common across ethnic backgrounds regardless of religion

>> No.11863762

Read Marshall Hodgson's Venture of Islam

Then read about how the entire Middle East is inbred and the average Muslim has no theory of mind and has an intelligence on par with a bonobo's these days. Sad.

>> No.11864914

>>11862452
It doesn't matter since they are the ones acting either way.
>>11863762
Interesting. Sad though.

>> No.11865025

There's a YouTube channel called Zad Academy. It's in Arabic but some of videos have closed captioning. They're mostly Wahabi salafists but their approach is very academic rather than preachy. You should check it out.

>> No.11865360

Lawrence Wright.

>> No.11865375

>>11862093
By Allah this is the truth

>> No.11865382

>>11860383
Join ISIS

>> No.11865383
File: 8 KB, 320x240, 1532725892600.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11865383

>>11860383
>an Indian voice can be heard panning around your forehead as you dream of yourself as that man you posted behind bars looking outward as you can hear tapas and little percussive instruments beat their way to a sultry background tempo without fully noticing it
>an Indian swerves around your head on a flying carpet, but you only catch wind from one of the tassels, scratching your head wondering if something just now was trying to contact you
>a yogi level 5 meets you at eye level, hovering above the quicksand you are both sinking in and instead of asking you a question he whispers in your ear and simply says, "Islam a shit. Suck my mother's pussy." and fades into the mirage behind you
>but you don't remember any of it except you don't want to study Islam anymore

>> No.11865386
File: 1.87 MB, 1440x2152, ap3xh1ajz7211.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11865386

>> No.11865498

>>11860383
One thing you should keep in mind: the Quran is the only authority. The Hadiths are nothing but a bunch of invented claims which contradict the Word of God. Most muslims are ignorant, sadly.

>> No.11865524

>>11860383
The Holy Quran is the soul of Islam. Start with Surahat Al-Fatihah: https://quran.com/1

>> No.11865528
File: 1.50 MB, 1440x1767, zfwbioqavwe11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11865528

>> No.11865537

>>11862522
so islam is whatever you make it up to be and no variation can be considered more correct than any other?

>> No.11865545
File: 41 KB, 640x480, p.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11865545

>>11865386
>>11865528
based memri

>> No.11865556
File: 33 KB, 710x540, 558.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11865556

>>11865498
>Quranism

>> No.11865558
File: 465 KB, 510x840, 3ene699y3ro11.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11865558

>>11865545
I hated muslims until I discovered memriTV

>> No.11865560

>>11865558
i became an islamophile upon reading houellebecq's latest novel

>> No.11866060

>>11860383

Start with Hussain and the battle of Karbala.

Thank me later OP.

>> No.11866804

>>11865537
Basically this

>> No.11866968

>>11862452
The main argument against fundamentalism / salafism etc. is that they explicitly reject the vast body of wisdom and exegesis from umma that Islamic history and doctrine themselves allowed for, and instead rely solely on a literalist interpretation of the Quran, something that most historical Muslim communities would've found odd.

Whether or not that argument is valid or not rests on just how much you buy into the axioms that each side puts fourth in the first place, so really it just comes down to bias. I personally have an affinity for the more traditional attitude towards Islam, because I feel that in theory and in practice it creates more noble and compassionate men than the red-eyed fundamentalist dogmatism the world is suffering today.

>> No.11866974

>>11866968
from the umma*

>> No.11867075

>>11861888
>tv whites
>kardashians - a turk
>Larry king - a jew
You have to be baiting.

>> No.11867356

>>11861888
Wow, just wow.

>> No.11868296

bump

>> No.11869186

Peter Bergen

>> No.11869358

>>11862289
>hasn't read Quran
>hasn't converted
>already talks like a follower of a religion he doesn't yet understand
It's okay Anon we all were alienated in our teens and wanted to be edgy, no reason to convert to the abyss religion just to ostracise your parents

>> No.11869658

>>11860383
First of all, may Allah guide you to the sublime light of Muhammad. As for where to start, honestly you can't go wrong with the Qur'an. I'd go for Yusuf Ali translation. Apart from that, your pic related is great. Sayyid Qutb is the most important Islamic thinker of the past century and maybe more. So I suggest Milestones (you can probably find it on pdf online).

>> No.11869666

>>11863136
I have read 2 of his books, Milestones and Social Justice in Islam. The latter is not as good, Milestones is awesome though. I'm currently reading In the Shade of the Qur'an vol 1. Honestly his books shook the world. One of the most underrated yet influential thinkers of the 20th century.

>> No.11869671

>>11860383
Just rape a kid, bash a woman, and throw a homo off the roof, then when criticised, refer to Christians hundreds of years ago and claim it's simply your turn. Then go live in their countries far away from here.

>> No.11869677

Treating a holy book as the starting point is fucking retarded. You need to consider the history and geopolitics that led to it's creation.

>> No.11869683

>>11860383
>>11860383
Look up Christian Prince on youtube.

>> No.11869912

Read the Quran.

>> No.11869934

>>11869671
So basically the only difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is still in its infantile state as an Abrahamic religion. Got it.

>> No.11871129
File: 99 KB, 380x349, 1528479065197.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11871129

>>11869934
*snap*

>> No.11872336

Start with the Greeks

>> No.11873248

>>11860383
Obama's diary desu

>> No.11873597

>>11869658
>>11863136
>>11862423
Just gonna drop a few things here in case anyone doesn't know who Said Qutb is and falls for the meme.

Said Qutb is kind of like the Karl Marx of Islamism (the idea that the political system of nations should be directly controlled by Islam), in that he set down a vague but extremely radical/revolutionary ideology and then died (in his case was killed) before he could see the result of his ideology being put into action.
He felt that the world had descended into a state of Jahiliyyeh (barbarism before Muhammad's revelation), and that the west was mostly responsible. He felt that the corrupt rulers of the Arab world were also agents of the West, and had to be killed. He contributed to the idea of Takfiri thinking, where basically anyone who doesn't join your revolution is Kafir and needs to be killed. He started off less radical, but after being tortured in prison he kind of went off the rails and started writing some crazy shit. It was so crazy that nobody really payed attention to it while he was alive except for his brother (who went on to teach at a university in Saudi Arabia and who taught Bin Laden). Years after he was killed by the Nasser regime the Islamist movement took off and people started trying to actually create his hypothetical Salafi utopia. It ends with groups like Isis existing...
Don't bother with his writing, it is pure ideology and utopian revolutionary (much like early Marxist writing). His book Stones in the Road (usually translated as Milestones) in particular appeals to young people a lot because they are highly susceptible to ideology and the idea of adventure, but his 'holy vanguard' always turns into thugs in the desert killing innocent people.

>> No.11873613

>>11873597
Follow up, Nasser had Qutb executed, which probably seemed like a good idea to Nasser because Qutb called for revolution, but this backfired and essentially immortalized him for modern day revolutionaries who see him as a martyr. Its easy to romanticize someone who dies for a cause, especially if they die before any of the negative effects of that cause can be seen.

>> No.11874462

>>11873597
>>11873613
He's still worth reading by far.

>> No.11874495

>>11869658
>First of all, may Allah guide you to the sublime light of Muhammad
At least try to be convincing next time brainlet.

>> No.11874637

>>11873597
Yes, most people don't realize the impact Qutb has on al Qaeda. Bin Laden was a student of Muhammad Qutb during his university days, a result of the persecution of Qutb's followers dispersing after his arrest and subsequent death sentence, but we also have to remember that Zawahiri was the brains of the movement. Regardless, Qutb was an interesting figure and Egpyt is a cesspool of various ideologies merging together and spreading across Africa and the Middle East.

>> No.11875229

>>11874495
I'm actually Muslim. The light of Muhammad (Nur-I Muhammad) was the first thing God created. There's a hadith about it.

>> No.11875246

>>11875229
Are you Sufi? I don’t think it’s a commonly held belief in mainstream Sunni or Shi’a Islam.

>> No.11875247

>>11873597
>Karl Marx of Islamism
Sayyid Qutb was not the progenitor of an ideology, like Marx was with Marxism. He was merely a thinker who put Islam into a modern context so his (and our) generation could understand it.

>takfiri thinking
Sayyid Qutb wasn't a takfiri. He was an Ash'ari Shaafi'i Sunni. He made takfir on the rulers and their armies but he never made takfir on masses. You cannot find Qur'anic evidence to oppose his takfir. Just because neo-kharijites like Shukri Mustafa read some of his books in their youth doesn't make Sayyid Qutb from their camp.

>Salafi utopia
Again, he wasn't salafi. At least not in the sense people who constantly proclaim their "salafiyya" are. He was a traditional Sunni. He was a mujaddid in a sense because he revived old ideas that had been forgotten by many "scholars". But his ideas were never outside of the classical Sunni mainstream. It was the government scholars who were out of the Sunni mainstream.

>> No.11875387

any good books on pan-arabism?

>> No.11875826

>>11860383
This man, in my country he should be more than he is now.

>> No.11876295

>>11860383
God I wish that were me.

>> No.11876942
File: 105 KB, 807x794, K-OnJihad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11876942

>>11875387
No, none whatsoever.

>> No.11876966

A fun thing I learned about islam recently is that there are apparently 99 names of god according to it, mostly descriptive names like "The Wise" or "The giver of mercy". Names that muslims then use for naming their children. To keep this from being blasphemy they either insert the prefix abd- to have it mean "servant of" or they remove the definite article.

I thought this was interesting because it means arabs who aren't muslims might well name their son al-Malik, meaning The King, and thus giving him a pretty badass sounding name. And the other muslim children would be stuck being called comparatively lame names like Malik.

>> No.11876978

>>11875246
I wouldn't call myself Sufi because that is ultimately an honorific. Sufis are people who have tasawwuf, or inner purification. I do not. But I am a firm believer in tasawwuf like other mainstream Sunnis. Tasawwuf is the science of spirituality (ruhaniyyet). It is just like tafsir, ilm-ul-hadith, or fiqh in that way. But because am not an expert in tafsir, I don't call myself a mufassir. Similarly, because I'm not an expert in tasawwuf, I don't call myself Sufi. But as to the issue of the light of Muhammad, the hadith is as follows:

It is related that Jabir ibn `Abd Allah said to the Prophet : "O Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be sacrificed for you, tell me of the first thing Allah created before all things." He said: "O Jabir, the first thing Allah created was the light of your Prophet from His light, and that light remained (lit. "turned") in the midst of His Power for as long as He wished, and there was not, at that time, a Tablet or a Pen or a Paradise or a Fire or an angel or a heaven or an earth. And when Allah wished to create creation, he divided that Light into four parts and from the first made the Pen, from the second the Tablet, from the third the Throne, [and from the fourth everything else]."

>> No.11877034

>>11860383
Where most muslims loose me is when they try to make the case for why ahmadiyyas are "not muslims". If you're gonna seek out knowladgable muslims, I would ask them about that.

>> No.11877076

>>11877034
Hey I’m ahmadiyya. Didn’t know people still hated us

>> No.11877580

>>11877076
Hey, that's neat! Must be cool to have a caliph who's still alive.

>> No.11877586

ITT: people who roleplay as Muslins instead of recommending good texts and academic articles

>> No.11877596

>>11877034
saying theres a prophet post muhammed put them out of the fold... its not even controversial.

Theyre like mormons

>> No.11877609

>>11877596
>Theyre like mormons
Yeah, that works. Mormons are christian, after all.

Something I do find hilarious about this though is that I read that there is a fatwa that was issued by a university in Egypt that stated that a number of small religions, including Druze, could be counted as muslims. Like honorary muslims, or so close to muslims as to be seen as muslims, something like that. So to some people Druze can be seen as more muslim than ahmadiyyas. I find that pretty damn funny to think about.

>> No.11877619

Start with the Quran. From there listen to what scholars against Islam have to say. Then seek an Islamic scholar’s response to their thoughts.

>> No.11877683

>>11869671
>Just rape a kid, bash a woman, and throw a homo off the roof
Why would you criticize any of these actions? They're all good.

>> No.11877690

>>11877609
are muslims christians then? what distinguishes religion if not doctrine and creed?

>> No.11877706

I honestly don't understand why so many people think Isis/Saudi Arabia represent mainstream Islamic thinking. It's one thing to not want rapey shitskins in your country, and another thing to hate Muslims that live in their own countries.

>> No.11877712

>>11875826
Are you Egyptian?

>> No.11877726

>>11877690
There are a lot of ways you can define what constitutes a seperate religion vs what is just a different denomination within a religion. But in this case I'm satisfied with that muslims aren't christians because they don't self identify as christians. Mormons identify as christians. Ahmadiyya identify as muslims.

That's not all there is, obviously - You can look at holy texts and such (ahmadiyyas follow the five pillars of islam) - but just as a general starting point and as a way of brushing aside silly hypotheticals, if there is no self identification as being a certain religion involved, it isn't worth considering.

>> No.11877764

>>11876978

Salam brother, I recently took my shahadah and was wondering if you could recommend more texts on what you're posting about right now, it sounds very interesting.

>> No.11877810

>>11877712
Nah, American

>> No.11878713

>>11873597
>The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. "Jazz" music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other. The American's intoxication in "jazz" music does not reach its full completion until the music is accompanied by singing that is just as coarse and obnoxious as the music itself. Meanwhile, the noise of the instruments and the voices mounts, and it rings in the ears to an unbearable degree… The agitation of the multitude increases, and the voices of approval mount, and their palms ring out in vehement, continuous applause that all but deafens the ears.[38]

Based and redpilled.

>> No.11879667

test

>> No.11879706

>>11877609
mormons are whatever they're next prophet feels like, in all seriousness that religion is the most machiavellian conception of thought since genghis khan was summoning spirits on the battle range