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/lit/ - Literature


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11834403 No.11834403 [Reply] [Original]

When it comes to writing literary fiction, women cannot compete with men, and there was not a single female author in the history of literature who could hold a candle to masculine fiction.

No woman has ever written a book that could possibly make it even to something as petty as the Meme Trilogy (that's Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, and Infinite Jest for newfags). Feminine fiction lacks complexity and is devoid of delivering a universal, all-encompassing message, while maintaining artistic value; i.e. it has no literary merit (but tries to prove otherwise by pretending it actually has it).


And if no woman can compete even with something as pompous as, say, Infinite Jest, then there is no possible way for any of them to reach the level of true masters of the word.

Prove me wrong
>protip: you can't

>> No.11834413

>>11834403
Hemingway is overrated and wuthering heights is a great book. Also the outsiders is the best YA book ever written

>> No.11834421

>>11834403
Art has always been a masculine pursuit. No surprise here.

>> No.11834430

>>11834413
>wuthering heights is a great book
...If you're gay. Like any femoid book, it's just lust mired in pretension,

>> No.11834477

renault, jolley, yourcenar, woolf, bronte, stein, ozick, barnes, munroe, wharton, murdoch

>> No.11834591

>>11834477
Counterpoint: Tolstoy.

>> No.11834596

>>11834591
?

>> No.11834598

>>11834596
A single male writer blows away a dozen female writers.

Ergo, no woman writer can do for shit.

>> No.11834609

>>11834598
Translation:
>girl cucked me and I was too pussy and I hate all women.

>> No.11834613

>>11834609
There has not been a female work to match War & Peace. Fact.

>> No.11834618

>>11834403
i mean, >>11834403
Happy Porrer is pretty good. unironically

>> No.11834621

>>11834613
See >>11834618

>> No.11834639
File: 9 KB, 240x240, 4427-gustav-meyrink.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11834639

>at work, monday
>wow anon, hemingway yesterday and now some russian guy? you like to read a lot?
>ya, I guess
>so who's your favorite female author
>hmm..I dunno...let me think
>hmmm....
>well? what's taking so long anon?
>HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>HMMMMMM....
>ANON!!! UMM ARE YOU....ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT....
>HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>OH NO NO NO NO NO ANON!!!!
>I dunno, can't really think of any--
>WTF??!?!! OH NO NO NO !!!! YOU FUCKING BIGOT, SOMEONE CALL HR AND REPORT THIS MISOGYNIST PIECE OF SHIT!!! OH GOD I"M LITERALLY SHAKING, WHERES MY PHONE I NEED TO TWEET THIS RIGHT-THE-FUCK-NOW-AND-THATS-A-GOOD-THING!!!!

mfw this literally happened

>> No.11834645
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11834645

There has not been a single male novel to match Tale of Genji, ergo male writers a shit

>> No.11834655
File: 60 KB, 351x351, 1506648065402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11834655

>>11834645
>weeb shit
>good
at least pick Musashi or Rashomon or The Temple of the Golden Pavilion, lmao

>> No.11834690

>>11834403
How is Infinite Jest pompous? It’s literally the opposite.

>> No.11834698

>>11834639
Just say Mira

>> No.11834702

>>11834413
>>11834430
>>11834477

The problem here is that Wuthering Heights, is indeed, a great book, but it's almost cheating because it's practically the only great book outside of Flannery O' Connor and Emily Dickenson (pushing it) written under these circumstances.

>> No.11834720

>ywn have a qt desperately try to convince you that women can write good books
>ywn fall in love in the process
Why even live?

>> No.11834724

>>11834639
Pearl Buck

>> No.11834730

>>11834720
Writing the light novel as we speak.

>> No.11834751

>>11834598
man, they really don't teach logic to you high schoolers anymore, do they?

>> No.11834754

>>11834403
>Good fiction
>Hemingway
For sale, grammar book, never opened.

>> No.11834764

No. They do teach biology, though. Males have logic built into their brains. Females don't and never will.

>> No.11834779
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11834779

>>11834403

>> No.11834783

>>11834403
Goddamn you’re on some pleb shit. Read Flannery O’Conner and name me a better short story writer.

>> No.11834824

>>11834783
>le hollow bible-grade symbols
>literary value
choose one

>> No.11834835 [DELETED] 
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11834835

>>11834824

Referencing either The Holy Bible or Shakespeare is instant death for a writer's appeal. What kind of cowardly limp-dick of an author wants to shamelessly glom onto someone else's achievements like that?

>> No.11835123

>>11834618
>>11834621
>Harry Potter
>good

>> No.11835128

>>11835123
Fucks sake autocorrect

>> No.11835145

>>11834403
it clearly doesn't matter what other people suggest because OP is gonna dislike them simply for the fact that they were written by women.
see, OP doesn't actually care about literature. he just wants to make himself feel better.
even so, let's say that the best writer of all time is male, or that Tolstoy is your favorite writer. does this mean you can't enjoy other writers because they aren't as good (including male writers)? why does it matter so much that a female writer is not the best, although most people recognize that some female writers are very, very good? and probably better than you'll ever be

>> No.11835156

>>11835145
Ugh, I can smell the unwashed vagina across cyberspace.

>> No.11835163

>>11835145
You're just supposed to shitpost sweetie

>> No.11835173

>>11834824
You’ve never read her

>> No.11835269

>>11835145
>t. tranny
Lmao fuck off loser

>> No.11835335

Sigrid Undset's Kristin Lavransdatter trilogy and Marguerite Yourcenar's Memoirs of Hadrian are better than 90% of the fiction wrote by men.

>> No.11835363

Virginia Woolf is the best female writer. She's not as good as Tolstoy or Shakspeare or Pynchon, but that doesn't mean she (and Dickinson, and Stein, and Cathar, and a handful of others) aren't worth reading, just as Hemingway, Faulkner, Borges, and Rilke are worth reading even though they aren't the absolute greatest

>> No.11835393
File: 227 KB, 1059x915, Screenshot_20180924-182446.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11835393

Conservatives can't write fiction for shit, change my mind.

>> No.11835403

>>11835393
The Bible

>> No.11835404

>>11834403
Try Middlemarch, that one really impressed me

I agree on a general basis though, women can’t write beyond the few exceptions

>> No.11835483

>>11834403
read the waves, retard

>> No.11835489

>>11834783
Naming Alice Munro

>> No.11835652

>>11834403
The gap between you and the greatest author is greater than that between man and woman.

>> No.11835927

>>11834690
Nice post, pretty compelling stuff.

>> No.11835934

>>11835393
Conservatives write fantastic horror. Classic example is HP Lovecraft.

>> No.11835957

Reminder that the average /lit/izen thinks George Eliot is a man.

>> No.11836010
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11836010

OP is totally right. Women won't never reach men in literature due the fact that they doesn't know how to write about anything except about themselves

>> No.11836274

>>11834403
You're the epitome of an absolute brainlet. The core of your brainlet-powers is your arrogance. Read more before spewing shit opinions.

>> No.11836411

I think the book, "Frankenstein", is a classic. I believe that was written by a girl

>> No.11836438

>>11835145
Pretty much this.
>>11836411
Mary Shelley

>> No.11836476

The mistake OP makes is comparing female writers to “masculine fiction” to begin with. First off if you understand yourself you’ll know as a man you’re a different animal than a woman could or would even want to ever be. They have different voices and if you read long enough sometimes you can tell a male from a female voice in writing. Those saying O’ Conner is a great example are correct. However her Catholicism gets quite annoying.

Listen OP, I’d agree that most women can’t generally hold a candle close to male writers. Everyone knows women don’t come close to men in the arts. If you study enough biology/psychology and any other discipline of the human body and mind the evidence correlates this. Heard of the bell curve?

Most popular female writers are dogshit, you guys told me to read The Bell Jar to understand women, Plath was a family abandoning cunt that literally spent the whole book blaming men for her obvious mental illness, and when asked she could always say the book was only “semi-autobiographical”. Sure thing Plath.

So I understand how you might be confused about this, but if you’re saying there aren’t amazing female writers or artists you’re an obvious virgin that’s never seen a vagina at all. How would you understand women if you really think this shit? Just realize they aren’t like us, they’re like them. Appreciate them at that level. Worrying about “equality” is a misnomer so just set your analysis to something closer to looking at women as a different animal then us, because they are.

Fag.

>> No.11836494

>>11834413
Wuthering heights is disgusting and shows that the alpha fucks beta bucks concept is atleast a few centuries old.

>> No.11836516

I don't think women are capable of writing something like Blood Meridian or Moby Dick, something totally off the wall and half mad but brilliant in an autistic way. I think they can approach something like Anna Karenina though. In fact I think Middlemarch is very close to that level. Social observation and psychological insight and good prose they can do.

Understanding why men go stab whales with long pointy sticks or hunt and scalp blood thirsty Apaches isn't their strong suit.

>> No.11836519

>>11836494
It's millenia old you brainlet. Alpha/beta is literally just a coined term by brainlets to mock society when in reality, they didn't have a choice in who they procreate with

>> No.11836532
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11836532

I'm as sexist as the next retard on here but come on.

>> No.11836560

>>11834403
They forced me to read a bunch of non males back at school. The only one I ever liked was Evelyn Waugh. All the rest were pure cancer.

>> No.11836621

>>11835145
based

>> No.11836655

>>11834609
Engage with the point. The fact is, he is correct. There is a strong in-conjunction between women and originality.

James > Wharton
Joyce > Woolf

Etc... In strictly formal terms, women have not been original writers. That being said, I think Wharton and Woolf are very decent writers. But they are not as formally innovative or brilliant as their nearest male counterpoints.

Consider the difference between early James and late James, or early Joyce and late Joyce. Now consider early Wharton and late Wharton, or early Woolf and late Woolf. The later writers certainly improved (per the usual), but they did not extend the formal limits of literary expression. James and Joyce were driven (almost to madness) to extend our notion of the possible, whereas Wharton and Woolf were more or less content to work within the given formal framework.

Dickinson is a very decent and original poetess. But this is mostly the product of her eccentricity, rather than a real drive to extend the formal boundaries. Moreover, she is the only one in all recorded history. And it's not as if she had any real obstacles to doing so. She could simply stay at home and do it. And in fact she actually did give us an invaluable collection of very good poetry.

>> No.11836669

To the lighthouse is a GOAT novel

>> No.11836692

Nightwood is better than 90 percent of litcore, T.S. Eliot agrees with me.
>>11836655
>fetishizing originality
Am I on /mu/? Fuck outta here avant teen fag.

>> No.11836783

>>11836494
Telling the truth doesn’t make the book bad, it actually makes it better

>> No.11836888

>>11834403
Tale of Genji. Stop reading cucked western women.

>> No.11836939
File: 458 KB, 374x496, gay.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11836939

I'm the best writer of female fiction. I used to write Naruto fan-fiction back in middle school at my peak. What I'm saying is that women suck dick at writing because it's all gay bullshit that even I don't want to read.

>> No.11837001

>>11836692
Hahahaha what an abdication. Well that's precisely the point. Men are driven to do it different and do it better. And if it weren't that, we'd still be drinking grass stew out on the savanna.

>> No.11837015

>>11834591
willing to bet cash you havent even read half of them

>> No.11837062

>>11834403
>for shit
>When it comes to
>there was not [...] in history
>hold a candle
>Meme Trilogy
>newfags
>is devoid of delivering
>universal, all-encompassing
>; i.e.
>it has no X (but tries to prove otherwise by pretending it actually has it)
>as, say, [book referenced 50 words ago]
>true master of the word
>>protip: you can't

if OP's argument is correct, she must be a woman. atrocious writing desu

>> No.11837212

>>11836010
>he thinks a man has written a genuine female point of view

>> No.11837248

>>11836888
Do you know of any non-western female authors or poets worth checking out?

I'm trying to read more female authors, but only a handful of western female authors I've read have been any good.

>> No.11837263

>>11835393
Evelyn Waugh bro

>> No.11837277

>>11836655
>Woolf
>not innovative
What the fuck are you smoking?

>> No.11837347

Alice Munro's Lives of Girls and Women is an absolute masterpiece.

>> No.11837377
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11837377

>>11837248
Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book, I recommend the Penguin Classics please read the forward and translators introduction.

Murasaki Shikibu's Tale of Genji, I will make the HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL suggestion that you start with the Suematsu Kenchō version, the audiobook is freely available on youtube. It is a highly abridge, loose and incomplete translation but by far best captures the aesthetics of Murasaki's writing. Then move on the the Dennis Washburn translation.

It's very important to read the introduction to the Pillowbook by Penguin Classics because it tells you why these women need to be read side by side and how each encompasses a vital aspect of Japanese literature and poetry. Sei Shonagon represents the "Okashi", or humor, charm, and the splendor of Heian life. Murasaki Shikibu represents "Aware" or pathos and the sublime. I would add that Lady Ise should also be read as she represents ideal love, but she is very sadly neglected as she wrote all works in waka poetry.

Right now I'm reading Pictures of the Heart, The Hyakunin Isshu in Word and Image. It's by far the best poetry I've read all year. I highly recommend the book. It's moved me to the verge of tears twice.

>> No.11838837

>>11834403
>a universal, all-encompassing message
>i.e. it has not literary merit

You're just a retard m8.

>> No.11838849

>>11835363
Nearly every author mentioned in this post is better than Tolstoy. Woolf easily.

>> No.11838869

>>11837001
>abdication
Nigger, you equate formal experiments in literature to real world inventions and fetishize novelty. The only think that abdicated here was your skull when your mom dropped you on a pavement.

>> No.11838870

The Age of innocence is probably my favorite novel and I frequently reread Lydia Davis stories on the subway, or when flying. Does Wharton compare to James or Forster? No, not really. But that doesn’t make her a bad writer. Ben Jonson couldn’t compare to Shakespeare but he was still a great writer. The existence of men at the top of the heap shouldn’t take away from the fact that many women have published many books better than many books by men. Also, it would probably be innacurate to term Henry James’ fiction as “masculine,” simply because he was a man. Henry James was a little buttboy (and not in the muscle-gay way, like Mishima) afraid to admit his homosexuality to himself, hence the legacy of destroyed letters.

>> No.11838887

>>11834403
It all depends on which authors you read and what you value in fiction. I've enjoyed books by:

Katherine Mansfield
Anna Kavan
Francoise Sagan
Carson McCullers
Anita Loos
Daphne Du Maurier
Dawn Powell
Barbara Trapido
Lucia Berlin
Patricia Highsmith
Dorothy B. Hughes
Vera Caspary
Marguerite Duras
Vicki Hendricks
Emilie de Turckheim

>> No.11838903

>>11837212
>he hasn't read anna karenina

>> No.11838907
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11838907

>>11836560
>Evelyn Waugh

>> No.11838909 [DELETED] 
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11838909

EDITH

WHARTON

>> No.11839160

>>11836655
You know absolutely nothing. Don’t ever make a post this long again, it’s insulting.

>> No.11839242

>>11836476
Plath was also one of the best lyrical poets to ever exist in the English language, and she had a maler voice in her poems than most male poets out there.

>> No.11839405

>>11834702
To the Lighthouse is a great book

>> No.11839410

>>11837277
This. Plus comparing any writer, male or female to Joyce will make them look worse comparatively

>> No.11839420
File: 1.14 MB, 1008x390, plath II.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11839420

>>11836476
>you guys told me to read The Bell Jar to understand women
>Plath was a family abandoning cunt that literally spent the whole book blaming men for her obvious mental illness

Congratulations, you now understand women!
Also.

>> No.11839434

>>11834720
She's probably a feminist anon.

>> No.11839437

ctrl+f "Elfriede Jelinek" not found
..."Dubravka Ugresic" not found

>> No.11839458

>>11836655
>poetess

and i almost took your post seriously

>> No.11839771

Women can’t write.
Their inferior.

>> No.11839808
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11839808

W O O L F E
D I C K E N S O N
O ' C O N N E R
S H E L L Y
Y O U R C E N A R
B R O N T E
M U N R O E

reminder that refusing to engage with art because of the identity of the artist is some middle school edgelord shit

>> No.11839836

>>11839808
What if we’re happier without them?

There are so many great books by male authors that we could never possibly read them all.

Why sacrifice our enjoyment for the sake of non males? What have they ever done for us?

>> No.11839852

>>11839836
Not to play devil's advocate, but a non male is directly 50% responsible for your existence.

>> No.11839862

>>11839852
Yeah mom gave birth to me and made good chicken tendies, but I read To Kill a Mockingbird and The Bluest Eye, which is much more painful than childbirth. So we’re even.

>> No.11839874

>>11834403
Marguerite Duras imo wrote a top tier 20th century book

I am extremely sexist and have been always sort of instinctively, but women have their own sort of way of knowing and it isn't necessarily worse, it is just different. I have always related to women more than to men, despite being not really feminine at all, I just seem to get along better with them.

>> No.11839967

>>11839874
This is an ignorant question, but in which ways do your sexism and your close relationship with women coexist? I am curious.

>> No.11839991
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11839991

Guess no one's read Rand itt either. Probably the only enjoyable female writer out there.

>> No.11840002
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11840002

>>11834618
>Happy Porrer

>> No.11840037

>>11839967
I just believe women are immensely different to men, and many of the ways this manifests would be called 'sexism' maybe even misogyny depending who you ask, though I feel nothing like hatred towards women. For example I don't think women understand what truth is.

My close relationships with women are just instinctual, beginning with my family members and then friends and girlfriends. If I ever start to intellectualize a woman then things go very wrong for me. Since I was about 4 years old I can remember this, I remember having two groups of friends in my daycare, the boy group and the girl group, and I remember the girls telling me that I couldnt be friends with both them and and the boys, I had to choose which group to belong to.

I have found that dating girls ruins my relation to them, becoming romantically involved kills my understanding and instinctual relation to them. Sex alone is bad enough, but dating is what really does it.

My absolute best relationship was with a girl who had a boyfriend, and she and I would talk for hours on end and even sort of hold each other, but this relationship was also ruined because we started having sex, and then she left her boyfriend and the possibility of me being her boyfriend infected our relation.

>> No.11840082

>Women can't write fiction

stopped reading there. The best polish modern book was written by a literal 18 years old girl. I'm talking about Wojna Polsko-Ruska by Dorota Masłowska. Where is your god now?

>> No.11840094

>>11840082
Nobody cares. My dad read it and didn't recommend it to me so I never bothered.

>> No.11840099

>>11840094
you should mention, just for the record, that your dad is 50 years old boomer from Podlasie

>> No.11840262

>>11840037
I wouldn't call that sexist. You just don't like to commit seriously to relationships.

>> No.11840906

>>11839160
Which of course is precisely why you have nothing more to say. No real proof that I supposedly know nothing. What a joke. Here is some advice, if you want "own" someone, you need to ACTUALLY do it. Telling me I know nothing. You might as well have said my mom's fat. Am I really suppose to take this shit seriously?

>> No.11840920

>>11834639
Link to the tweet or it didn't happen.

>> No.11840932
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11840932

>>11834403

>> No.11840948

>>11839991
>ugly jewess with shitty prose and flat characters
Yeah Anon she’s great