Depression

[Anonymous No.11800346]

I'm struggling with life right now; everything seems so meaninglessly absurd to me. Please offer literature on dealing with depression (no Camus).

Obligatory $uicideboy$ song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ohcowns34

[Anonymous No.11800401]

bumping

[Anonymous No.11800448]

Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.11800500]

>A Guide To Rational Living

Your depression is the result of irrational beliefs, unhelpful thinking patterns and behavior.
Once the ideas in the book click, you'll basically never make yourself feel disturbed about anything without being aware that you're doing it.

This is also good advice, since the stoics have similar advice >>11800448

[Anonymous No.11800561]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMjnA1_-_E&index=15&list=PL2F4C94FEE71C385C
listen to some lifeaffirmingboy song

[Anonymous No.11800661]

>>11800346
>depression
>listens artists such as suicideboys
yeah, bet you love lil peep aswell and lil uzi vert huh?
your "depression" is one of the products the culture industry is selling you
you have the choice of growing a pair, and realizing that to a man, the only threat is something physical, such as a bear chasing you. Why would you let something abstract bring you down? are you that weak, that physically non-existent concepts win over you?
just imagine stuff like tumors and lethal diseases from birth, people have no control over those when being born, and you belong in the people who were lucky and privileged enough to lead a life without such physical limitations. where's your gratitude, and the gratitude of people like you??

[Anonymous No.11800717]

Waiting for Godot— Camus deals more with interpersonal absurdism rather than situational. Depends what mood you’re in.

[Anonymous No.11800723]

>>11800661
Nice boomer core advice retard, you obviously don’t care enough about real people who have issues and rather only care about being forced to see these same issues on a daily basis, it’s ironic because people like you both completely understand the toxic power structure ala “discipline and punish” but choose to regress to it anyway because it’s easier than taking a minute and listening to someone else’s issues, I’m not talking about some tranny ass political message here either, this is not a question of “ethics” or “ morality”but of pure individual good nature towards other humans which really isn’t the hard to be able to gain as a simple human being.

[Anonymous No.11800724]

>>11800500
This a fresh perspective on the causes of depression for me. I like it and can see it among most ppl i know personally who are depressed.

[Anonymous No.11800730]

Have you tried any of the religious existentialist, such as Kierkegaard or Dostoevsky? When I had my existential crisis, I thought that all existential philosophers were depressed pseuds like Camus and Sartre, and I'd only get even more depressed by reading them. However I discovered that existentialism is a far broader field than that, and some authors are much more optimistic. Reading some of these, along with some more serious theology, helped convince me of the possibility of a higher power and intrinsic meaning to life (which I'd discounted before), and that helped me get back on the right track

[Anonymous No.11800732]

>>11800346
The New Earth - Eckhart Tolle

Unironically

[Anonymous No.11800741]

Pic related. This book is specifically about a psychologist who happens to have bipolar disorder, which is a complex condition where severe depressive states (hypomania) coincide with cyclically occurring polar opposite manic states.

It's an interesting read not only because she's a very good writer, but because she's also a psychologist who knows the science about what she's dealing with. So it combines a lived-experience memoir with descriptive analysis and theoretical explanation.

[Anonymous No.11800742]

Read 1 John

[Anonymous No.11800744]

>>11800730
This, word for word this

[Anonymous No.11800752]

>>11800732

Yeah this isnt even a meme, dude looks like a new age faggot but power of now changed my life about 7 years ago

[Anonymous No.11800759]

>>11800742
St John 1 Douay-Rheims

[Anonymous No.11800797]

>>11800346
Stop listening to depressing music if you're serious about getting better. Music is far too powerful. I'd suggest forgetting about every single depressing song you know. If a song stimulates your sadness, do NOT listen to it. Try to find more invigorating music or else don't listen to any music at all (monk mode). Only fill your consciousness with beneficial things. This is all I can say so far. I don't really know you and what could help you.

[Anonymous No.11800817]

>>11800723
essentially, i advocate the belief that
>depression is the result of irrational beliefs, unhelpful thinking patterns and behavior.
like the earlier anon stated, therefore in my own words, depression is "not real"
i don't know about the rest bullshit you assumed in your post
i admit, that i don't believe my post to be the most successful at convincing a depressed person, rather it's intentionally "toxic" in tone as you mentioned, as in putting the depressed person as the cause of the problem.
i don't believe this will be something to cure the depression in short term/immediately, but rather add a new perspective to consider and after some months, the depressed person might look back to what i've stated and look at certain issues in a new light

[Anonymous No.11800856]

I don't have anything on dealing with depression, but when I was really depressed it made me feel better to read depressing things. Reading them made me feel less alone because I didn't feel like my perception was totally alien.

>Pessoa - The Book of Disquiet
>Dazai - No Longer Human
>Kafka - The Metamorphosis

I did get a little too edgy and read a bunch of Cioran.

[Anonymous No.11800883]

>>11800856
> Reading them made me feel less alone because I didn't feel like my perception was totally alien.
my stance on this is that it's toxic, and instead of encouraging to better your ways and get out of depression, this buries you deeper and normalizes the depression
but if it cured your depression then i guess it has some positive effects

[Anonymous No.11800911]

>>11800797
The path to madness

[Anonymous No.11800922]

>>11800797
i listen to sad music to try to make myself cry because i feel that this cleanses your soul sort of the way sleeping cleanses your mind. yes i am actually this gay

[Anonymous No.11800923]

>>11800817
>>11800723
In fairness, this is the dominant paradigm for treating depression within psychology (i.e. the cognitive-behavioural model). It suggests that depressed people have irrational cognitions about the world and/or themselves, and this causes behaviours which only perpetuate the depression. For example, cognition ("everyone thinks I'm ugly") -> behaviour (avoiding social interaction).

Whilst I have no doubt that this works for some people, I don't think it's a good treatment for people who suffer from a depression that is rooted in existential angst. Is it "irrational" to say that life has no intrinsic meaning, that we're all headed for oblivion after we die, or any of these other existential thoughts that can seem so terrifying to some people? When it comes to metaphysical questions, it's not really a matter of simple rationality and irrationality. Personally, I needed an approach that took on these existential concerns more directly, instead of just saying they're irrational without saying why. I found that in the Jungian approach, which isn't very popular in mainstream psychology, but seems to me to have so much to offer in terms of dealing with the crises created by modernity.

t. psychology PhD stuent

[Anonymous No.11800926]

>>11800346
You're overthinking. Set some goals that accord with your values and work towards them. Give life your best shot, even if you take a dim view of humanity's current trajectory.

Also, like previous anon noted, negative thought/behavioural patterns are enemy #1 and they are self-reinforcing. I recommend CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) for that reason; it's practical and it works for a lot of people.

[Anonymous No.11800938]

>>11800883
I mean, it didn't cure my depression on it's own, not even close. But I think it did help to combat the alienation I was feeling, which is necessary for breaking out of depression. I get what you're saying, and if I was only using it to convince myself that I was right to be a depressed piece of shit, it would have definitely been a negatively reinforcing act.

[Anonymous No.11800963]

>>11800926
That's fine in principle, but what if you have no values? What if you can find no justification for an action being 'good' or 'bad' other than your own emotional reaction to it, which in itself is just governed by your biological programming as a dumb animal? When those thoughts start going around your head, you start to exist in a world where it becomes increasingly difficult to enjoy the things you used to love, the 'pointless' things that used to give your life meaning. It's quite hard to describe an existential crisis, but the lack of meaning/values is a key part.

[Anonymous No.11800994]

>>11800923
>it's not really a matter of simple rationality and irrationality.
this is why it's so hard to discuss depression, if i write walls of text with philosophical terminology, i'm seen as an armchair psychologist
so the last resort is for me to simplify it to the extreme like i did at >>11800817
but once it's too simplified, it's easy to interpret wrong

>>11800938
>if I was only using it to convince myself that I was right to be a depressed piece of shit, it would have definitely been a negatively reinforcing act.
media that tells of depression really is a double-edged sword

[Anonymous No.11800997]

>>11800346
go to a doctor

[Anonymous No.11801032]

>>11800923
>Is it "irrational" to say that life has no intrinsic meaning

What's irrational is your reaction.
>Life /must/ have a grand narrative or purpose, otherwise it's horrible and unlivable and I can't stand it.

It's this kind of evaluation that's disturbing you.
If you read any of the existentialist, then you can see how each just accepts the inevitable meaninglessness of life and then interprets that fact into a life affirming philosophy.
Life is still perfectly livable, even enjoyable despite not having "objective" meaning.

It's no surprise most people move away from their existential angst when they get older, not because they find answers, but because they learn to accept life for what it is.

[Anonymous No.11801052]

>>11801032
>Life is still perfectly livable, even enjoyable despite not having "objective" meaning

To me, that sort of mindset only led to an empty hedonism. It didn't come close to re-connecting me to meaning, which I think is the key to living a really fulfilling life. It's ok if it works for you, but I don't think we should accept it as a given that life has no objective meaning. That too can, and should, be challenged.

[Anonymous No.11801054]

Has anyone here actually significantly improved their mental health by reading a book? Also, thoughts on the Enchiridion?

[Anonymous No.11801071]

>>11800346
Why is nobody talking about how hard the song slaps?

cotdamn

[Anonymous No.11801090]

>>11800923
But not all depressed people have irrational cognition about the world in the first place. What if someone's life just generally and objectively sucks? Focus is too much on fixing the internal and not external.

[Anonymous No.11801126]

I am thankful for these replies and will check out the books that were recommended.

Let me elaborate on what I'm experiencing, not that I expect anyone to give a shit. Im in college and I hate it. I hate my professors (theres one guy who teaches the exact opposite way that I would; he treats class-time like its a jeopardy session and so I naturally associate the subject with a useless game). The lectures are boring. The books are boring. I dont care about what Im learning.

I know the only alternative is to work. Ive worked before and disliked it. I know I wont like it now or in the future. Everything is just so boring and useless.

And so I start to contemplate self-destruction. Questions such as "why live if you dont enjoy anything" ring around in my head. You know, its more than twice as bad as this; because in truth there are things I want: I want a beautiful wife who loves me (this probably more than anything at this point); I want to come up with some brilliant idea, write some epic novel &c. But these are fantasies. They torment me because they will never happen.

I havent even described myself (and how much hate I harbor against myself). Picture something worthless beyond measure, whose errors were too innumerable to lay out. Lazy, undisciplined, lustful, a glutton, idiot, sinner.

Im just so tired of myself and of the rest of the world. (I know this hasnt elaborated upon anything but whatever, if you made it this far, thanks for reading)

[Anonymous No.11801175]

>>11801090
Well the internal can affect the external. Maybe the circumstances of their life are beyond their control, but in all likelihood there's probably also things you can do to improve your circumstances too. But I agree that not all depressed people have irrational cognitions, which is why I don't really like the label 'depression' (which can be very different from one person to the next), or the whole debate about around which treatment is better or worse. Different things work for different people.

[Anonymous No.11801177]

>>11801126
spend time in the wilderness. perhaps in a cave

[Anonymous No.11801182]

>>11801052
Accepting there's no answer /currently/ doesn't mean you can't pursue answers.
You can read philosophy and still come out a perfectly non-depressed person on the other end.

This mindset is good for removing needless disturbing negative emotions and replacing them with healthy negative emotions like disappointment (which is miles ahead of hopeless depression).
Removing a good chuck of your suffering won't make you happy, but it will free you to pursue your genuine interests, adopt responsibility or just find ways of enjoying yourself.

>>11801054
I'm >>11800500
I know it's cliche, but the book completely changed my entire perspective on life and got me out of a hard depressive episode where I was genuinely considering necking myself.
For the first time in my life, I don't feel at the whim of my "random" emotions.
Whatever happens, I know that it's entirely in my power to choose whether external things disturb me.

Enchiridion is a nice short introduction to stoicism.
It's related to my book because REBT is directly based on stoicism, in a very straight forward, clear, systematized manner.
I got more out of a single read of "A Guide To Rational Living" than all the stoic literature, because the former actually spoon-fed me all the techniques and information.

>>11801090
Most people are irrational. It takes years of practice to be able to think critically in every situation.
A part of your suffering is inflicted by external events, but there's also a lot of needless self-inflicted suffering through catastrophizing, rumination and general shitty thought patterns.
As Seneca would say, we suffer more in imagination than reality.

Healthy negative emotions like sadness, disappointment, concern etc. aren't a bad thing, because they signal to you your values and motivate you towards action.
Unhealthy negative emotions like depression, anxiety, panic etc. are all self-inflicted and cripple you.
Once you remove those, you can finally just start working towards fixing real life problems or working on your goals.

[Anonymous No.11801188]

>>11801126
I've been there, anon. You should think about and decide whether or not you'd like your mind to work for you, rather than against you.

[Anonymous No.11801222]

>>11801182
I get that very feeling you're speaking of that I'm at the whim of my feelings, along with a profound lack of purpose and commitment. Thanks for the explanations anon, I suppose I'll give both a read and see if they help.

[Anonymous No.11801284]

>>11800723
>toxic power structure
lol
there is no helping you because your enemy is nature itself

[Anonymous No.11801288]

>>11800922
I don't know if you're OP, but if this is true, then obviously crying to music isn't making you feel any better. I sometimes shed a tear or two during meditation. I don't know if it's for the same reason you've given or why it happens because I feel calm when it happens, but anyways if the principle is the same, you might try meditation. Look into the research, it's much more effective than medication at treating depression, anxiety and some other disorders as well. I recommend cutting out depressing music (as it creates a sort of vicious cycle: you feel sad so you listen to sad music, music makes you sadder so you crave more sad music, etc.) and daily meditation to strengthen your mind and soul and help bring about some kind of purification.

[Anonymous No.11801292]

/adv/ is a good board and you should post there rather than here

[Anonymous No.11801301]

>>11801288
well i listen to happy music as well when i am happy to enhance that feeling. As for fixing myself there is way too much wrong with me, id explain but you mihgt not even believe just how bad it is. I have instead accepted myself which while I remain crazy, makes me non-violent and loving, which is I think the most important thing.

meditation would maybe help that is true.

[Anonymous No.11801326]

>>11801126
Judging by your post, you have a lot of absolutist rigid demands on yourself, other people and life.
>My professors /must/ teach in a helpful manner otherwise they're idiots, horrible people (causing anger, irritation)
>Work/School /must/ not be boring, /must/ be engaging, meaningful, interesting at every point or I can't stand it.
>I /must/ have a beautiful wife that loves me, an epic career etc. otherwise life is completely unlivable and horrible.
>I /must/ not be lazy, undisciplined, lustful, a glutton, idiot, sinner otherwise I'm worthless beyond measure.

You would greatly benefit from some unconditional self-acceptance, life acceptance and acceptance of other people.
Yes, you can have all kinds of preferences, but you have to keep in mind that these are simply ways you want reality to be, not the way reality actually is.
Understand that it's entirely in your power to control your interpretation and opinion of things, everything else is simply out of your immediate control.
You can do your best to pursue a beautiful wife, but understand that even without her, your life wouldn't be horrible or unlivable.

[Anonymous No.11801327]

>ITT: attempting to overcome depression without seeking God
It doesn't work lads.

[Anonymous No.11801345]

>>11801327
Some people just cant turn their brains off

[Anonymous No.11801417]

>>11801345
>human reasoning makes the existence of God any less likely
reddit-tier cringe.

[Anonymous No.11801564]

>>11801301
Hmmm.. well, I don't know if you can say you've accepted yourself if you still feel constantly sad, unless you mean that you've just renounced your desire to actually change your own sadness; if so, then I don't understand why you'd make this post. Anyways, try meditation. It might help you. It's dragged me out of more than a few depressive states.

[Anonymous No.11801605]

>>11801578

Post I literally made for two other threads.

Dostoyevsky - Notes From Underground
Camus - The Outsider (The Stranger)
Shakespeare - Hamlet
Any beat literature.

[Anonymous No.11802206]

>>11800346
Infinite Jest, unironically

[Anonymous No.11802213]

>>11801564
I dont think I can change is my point, im just like this. Trying to change makes me angry and frustrated which causes violence.

Its not the end of the world to be sad sometimes. I am not a pure depressive, so there is good stuff too. ty for your advice in any case though.

[Anonymous No.11802504]

>>11801126
Similar situation to you friend, and I'm glad for some of the replies in this friend. My main current source of grief is a sort of dissonance between my thoughts and actions. While I consider myself to be quite talkative, funny, insightful even, I struggle to actually show this to people. I actually really struggle talking 1 on 1 with a few of my closest friends because I'm worried I will hit a snag where I run out of things to say. In fact, this is constantly happening with my best friend. I remember a time when we could speak uninterrupted for hours, and now after 15 minutes I find myself struggling for words with him. Likewise I feel embarrassed and anxious to make jokes and riff with him. It is an insecurity that has seemingly appeared from no where. I'm actually getting drunk a lot more at social events to loosen myself up because otherwise I start to get claustrophobic and will say nothing. I used to get described as someone who's come out of his shell, but it feels now as if I've left only to climb into a tighter one.

[Anonymous No.11802564]

>>11800963
Well that's just the truth. Values start with us -- they start with human biases. Decide who you are. There doesn't need to be universal meaning or ethics for you to have values. You synthesize your biases with the facts you can apprehend and off you go.

Do things have to be perfect or eternal to be worthwhile?

As you've said though, the negative feedback loop is dangerous, which is why I advised CBT of some sort. Also, just making a big change in your life can force you into new thought patterns.

[Anonymous No.11802588]

A role model might be helpful too... If there's anyone you really admire, try to emulate their characteristics.

[Anonymous No.11802722]

Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life. It's written by a psychologist, basically teaching you how to unfuck your brain. It's not a panacea, but things will get better. /lit/ should do a chart with recommendations for people who want to abandon their depressive/pessimistic worldview.

[Anonymous No.11802946]

>>11800730
Did you become religious?

[Anonymous No.11802959]

>>11800346
>55 reps
>no one posted New Testament

[Anonymous No.11803066]

>>11802959
unironically this.

[Anonymous No.11803085]

Start working out.
Sleep well.
Make to-do lists - micromanagement
Read 12 rules of life.

[Anonymous No.11803093]

>>11800346
Demian - Herman Hesse

[Anonymous No.11803107]

>>11800346
I have been seriously depressed before, OP.

I’m pretty sure it’s genetic in my family, as both my grandfathers were severely depressed at some point in their lives (one spent a year in a sanitorium and the other underwent electro-shock therapy).


Mine kicked in at the end of high school and through college basically. Best thing I did was get a part time job, start running, use the internet less, and read more.

I read the meme depressive literature, it was basic but helped me. Dostoevsky, Camus, Sartre, Beckett, Hesse, even though you would think those are the types that would make you more sad, they actually helped me a lot. Or maybe it was just the exercise and getting out of my apartment to work.

Hope you feel better OP.

[Anonymous No.11803126]

>>11800500
Sometimes depression results from irrational beliefs, but very often it just comes about for not apparent reason, and there's not much one can do but to endure it.

[Anonymous No.11803132]

>>11800923

What’s the jungian approach? Could you explain more?

[Anonymous No.11803199]

>>11801292
/lit/ gives better advise regarding depression though

[Anonymous No.11803200]

>>11800346
To how through the same exact motions and musings as others, how absolutely absurd. The absurd thing would be if you had the balls to actually kill yourself instead of just whine for attention like a 12 year old girl in the NeoPet forums. Please tell us more about how absurd life is.

[Anonymous No.11803204]

>>11800923
>I don't think it's a good treatment for people who suffer from a depression that is rooted in existential angst
Existential angst is a cover for being a boring pussy with no talents

[Anonymous No.11803512]

>>11803204
What's your point, NPC?

[Anonymous No.11803523]

The sermon on the mount.

[Anonymous No.11803645]

>>11803126
I'm skeptical of the chemical imbalance meme.
Often people say, "I went to the gym, started exercising regularly and it cured my depression", causing one to be believe that it was a biological problem.
But in reality, the act of going to the gym or engaging in exercise simply changed the hopeless beliefs of that person.
Perhaps because they improved their beliefs about their self-image or self-efficacy.

It's the same reason any of the suggestions in this thread could work, because they all have the potential of changing your beliefs.
Sometimes, even reading a meme religion book might help do just that. Other times, you need action in order to really convince yourself.

This is also the same reason why pretty much all psychotherapies are effective to a degree.
The psycho-therapeutic method actually accounts for the least amount of variance in improvement, the highest usually being the therapeutic relationship or the belief that one can change.

Believing your emotions are just random forces of nature, unconnected to your perception and interpretation of reality, if not irrational, is a very limiting unhelpful belief.
One can easily see how holding it would reduce one's chances of improvement and keep one in a state of depression "for no apparent reason".

[Anonymous No.11803651]

>>11800661
>to a man, the only threat is something physical, such as a bear chasing you
That's completely wrong though.

[Anonymous No.11804048]

>>11801126
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

chase the sun. it may be unbearably uncomfortable, but being under its light leaves one with a sense of vitality. everything is change, all we can do is pick a direction and run with it

[Anonymous No.11804401]

>>11803645
thank you

[Anonymous No.11804595]

>>11800346
Verbal Knowledge isn't enough

[Anonymous No.11804612]

>>11804595
What the fuck is this self help bullshit?
>"Scientific"
Fuck off back to Facebook, Instagram or whatever hellhole you crawled out from.