/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11776525]

so did postmodernism finally die?

[Anonymous No.11776528]

yes/no metamodernism is in/out/spork

[Anonymous No.11776536]

interesting /mu/ repost desu

postmodernism cannot die

[Anonymous No.11776545]

>>11776536
postmodernism can die

[Anonymous No.11776600]

>>11776545
it doesn’t work like that

[Anonymous No.11776607]

>>11776600
it does work like that

[Anonymous No.11776608]

what does the kanye video have to say about postmodernism?

[Anonymous No.11776615]

>>11776525
>postmodernism dies and becomes ghostmodernism

[Anonymous No.11776624]

>>11776525
as far as literature is concerned it died with dfw

sure theres still pomo work out there but its not the zeitgeist

[Anonymous No.11776625]

>11776608
terrible post and question. Many things, maybe none interesting but to think it says nothing is purely retarded.
>>11776607
no it does not work like that. You're trapped in a meta-conception of art history that is too modern to even grasp, there will always be a new post modernism.

[Anonymous No.11776678]

>>11776525
The art and literary style is still very much alive. But its philosophical stance is dying or dead due to the leftism it usually promoted, not to mention the continual encroachment of science establishment.

[Anonymous No.11776685]

Yes, Jordan Peterson and Deleuze teamed up to kill it. The SJWs are all based and redpilled neo-Hitlerians now.

[Anonymous No.11776688]

>>11776678
>but weddit told me science confirms posmodwernism

[Anonymous No.11776689]

>>11776678
this tbqh

[Anonymous No.11776699]

>>11776624
this. stuff like Joshua Cohen's trash and The Nix is trying to hold on to it but the wide readership isn't there. we're no longer impressed by unnecessary obtuseness or fragmentation

[Anonymous No.11776707]

>>11776688
>having a trans wife
what a fucking KEK

[Anonymous No.11776710]

>>11776699
Wasn't The Nix a bestseller? I also like Josh Cohen a whole lot

[Anonymous No.11776715]

>implying we haven't entered modalrealistmodernism

[Anonymous No.11776754]

>>11776615
>ghostmodernism

lmao fucking amazing I'll have to start using that one.

[Anonymous No.11776779]

>>11776615
This

[Anonymous No.11776862]

Kanye knew exactly what he was doing

[Anonymous No.11776881]

>>11776862
kanye reactions were the only thing which saved video

[Anonymous No.11776887]

Threadly reminder that those aren't statues.
>>11776710
Hi, Josh. Publish more short stories.

[Anonymous No.11776895]

>>11776678
>its philosophical stance is dying or dead due to the leftism
t. brainlet who has no idea what postmodernism is

[Anonymous No.11776920]

>>11776895
Not him, but you seem upset buddy. It is perfectly reasonable to view postmodern philosophy, specifically post-structuralism as a continuation of the Marxist tradition of criticism. He made the distinction between that and art. I'd also make the distinction between pomo philosophy and cultural critics that take a pomo approach like Baurdrillard. Very different from each other and it is indeed wrong to equate them, but pomo phil is such a self-indulgent masturbatory effort that basks in narcissism that it is destined to self-destruct.

[Anonymous No.11776950]

who /sickfuck/ here

[Anonymous No.11776990]

Postmodernism was never even a thing.

[Anonymous No.11776996]

>>11776536
>postmodernism cannot die

Its already dead bro

[Anonymous No.11777000]

>>11776699
Our boy Josh isn't a post-modernist

[Anonymous No.11777010]

>>11776996
whats next?

[Anonymous No.11777041]

>>11776920
I didn't actually seem upset, what a weird interpretation. Anyways, postmodernism is a critique and rejection of the (particularly modernist) tendency to craft grand structural metanarratives, including Marxism. The moronic coupling of postmodernism with leftism is something that either liberal pseuds in sociology programs do or dumb right wing pseuds who read shit like JP do.

Admitttedly, some of the folks who come from France and were surrounded in that pretty embarrassing post-WW2 embracing of actual Marxism by non-postmodernists such as Sartre sort of had a strange hybrid attempt to use Marx in their writings as an attempt to fit in.... but that's to do with their own self-absorption to fit in. There's not a meaningful compatibility beyond that.

Derrida, Deleuze, Rorty, Agemben, Bataille, etc. all are not Marxists. Foucault should also be added, but his biopolitics stuff is so obviously coopted by the annoying SJW left of today that I kind of don't want to give him too much credit.

[Anonymous No.11777069]

>>11777041
>Derrida, Deleuze, Rorty, Agemben, Bataille, etc. all are not Marxists.
I'd add late PI Wittgenstein as also fulfilling the criteria as a postmodernist, but calling him as such usually irritates Anglo-American philosophy folks who often view themselves as anti-continental pomo but pro-Wittgenstein.

[Anonymous No.11777083]

>>11776615
ghostmodernism sounds fucking radical.

[Anonymous No.11777090]

>>11777010
Hyper-modernism.

[Anonymous No.11777129]

>>11776895
He said the leftism that it often promotes, and to be honest I can't think of a postmodern philosophy that wasn't on the left and if there is or was one, the forerunners and important thinkers were certainly left wing.

[Anonymous No.11777239]

>>11776615
If postmodernism was destroyed it would be toastmodernism

[Anonymous No.11777266]

[Chorus: Guattari]
You're such a fuckin' schizo, I love it (I love it)
You're such a fuckin' schizo, I love it (I love it)

[Pre-Verse: Deleuze]
I'm a sick desire machine producing fantasies of being a fucking machine (whoop!)
I'm a sick desire machine producing fantasies of being a fucking machine (whoop!)

[Anonymous No.11777288]

>>11776920
>It is perfectly reasonable to view postmodern philosophy, specifically post-structuralism as a continuation of the Marxist tradition of criticism.

Marx continues a tradition himself. He didn't invent critique you fucking zoomer

[Anonymous No.11777320]

>>11777266
Deleuze line is excellent, Guattari's needs work

[Anonymous No.11777406]

>>11776525
Perhaps it was never really 'alive', just a certain arrangement within a living structure of concerns dating from, at least, the post-Enlightenment period of systematic Kantian autocritique; but one could argue this structure, if one were to identify it as onto-theology, 'presents itself' -as long as- there is, by the nature of written, phonetic language, (and the experience thereof, cultural -and- individual) the distinction between the signifier and the signified that informs the Western tradition -- i.e. the metaphysics of presence -- in fact, always already in the very gesture of writing. The idealism, the dialectic, the notion of a justice (to come) is as comfortable in the 'postmodern' as it always has been in the history of philosophy. But let us start with the presupposition, of the equivalence between finality and death. As we may know from a grammatological reading of philosophy, the philosophical text, the absence that death brings is never really an absence, never really a simple erasure. Death has its own meaning -- it is a transformation into something that functions only with a supposed absence, that continues -in the face of- absence, in the effacement of the dead to provide for the living. There is not really a finality introduced by, or corresponding to, death; but in-finality, or an equivalent notion of the transcendent, the eternal, the pure, the present, etc., must, in a double gesture, inscribe and regulate the economy of life and death, of significance and insignificance (meaning) and by the same token be regulated by itself and legitimise itself by distinguishing the dead from the living at the expense of the dead -- a strategic positioning on the side of the living, and bringing about (in writing) a 'whole host' of metaphysical carry-on, i.e. its presuppositions -left open-.

[Anonymous No.11777437]

>>11776525
Postmodernism is still happening. As long as social justice overrides the rule of law.

[Anonymous No.11777610]

>>11777288
Erm, yeah, but that's exactly what I said.

[Anonymous No.11777692]

>>11776624
It's alive and well in movies and television.

[Anonymous No.11777706]

Given that most of the people ringing the bell for the death knell of post modernism horribly misrepresent and fundamentally misunderstand it, I'd say not among anyone of any import

[Anonymous No.11777716]

>>11776615
the term is hauntology, anon, but i appreciate your novel thinking

[Anonymous No.11777799]

>>11777266
based

[Anonymous No.11777802]

>>11776615
wow this post is the epitome of boastmodernism

[Anonymous No.11777805]

>>11776615
ghostmodernism has many crossover elements with art bell's coast to coastmodernism

[Anonymous No.11777812]

>>11777805
Underrated

[Anonymous No.11777815]

>>11777266
change deleuze's verse to im a schizo fuck i like a quick fuck. not sure how to fix guattari's

[Anonymous No.11777819]

>>11777805

[Anonymous No.11777823]

more like mostmodernism

[Anonymous No.11777833]

Is Dirty Sanchez the peak of Grossmodernism?

[Anonymous No.11777838]

>>11776950
I'M A SICK FUCK
I LIKE A QUICK FUCK

[Anonymous No.11777865]

>>11777833
lame jackass knock off that gets pissy when you call them out on it

I watched their movie and it sucked, one of them literally took a poo in a pint of beer and drank it

[Anonymous No.11777866]

>>11777865
the epitomy of grossmodernism

[Anonymous No.11777871]

>>11777838
I LOVE IT

[Anonymous No.11777925]

>>11777871
Based

[Anonymous No.11777929]

>>11776525
I fucking love seeing kanye happy after all his mental health problems,

[Anonymous No.11777956]

I'd say "postmodernism" as a philosophical tendency is, for us, (as Hegel says of art) a thing of the past; for the simple reason that it is outmoded, that any comfortable position will elicit its philosophical exigencies to be critiqued, overcome, or simply moved on to something newer. (Ironically, this betrays a faithfulness to a dynamism, an experimentation or care for novelty that is at the heart of Lyotard's understanding of the postmodern - as part of the modern - albeit more superficially, more about the new - and, furthermore, we aren't talking about Lyotard's idea proper, for as we know he is one of the sole Frenchies to affirm or entertain the term; but instead of flat-out denying the existence of a "true" postmodernism because there never was a self-described movement of that name (something similar could be said for its conflation poststructuralism), we must affirm that - through usage - one can give meaning to a postmodernism, even a philosophical one.) Of course, who are the real postmodernists? Fourth-rate academic bootlickers no one has heard of. And here one may ascertain the gap between the foremost thinkers and the safe 20-year delay of college teaching; hence why you may still get your watered-down Americanized Derrida in your literary theory 101 class - but this is rather irrelevant. Continental philosophy has more or less moved on from this, even if it is still tarrying with the thinkers of '60s France (here Deleuze stands out as receiving less the clichéd postmodernism label than Fouderritard, owing perhaps to his later peak in the Anglo-Sakkkson reception), albeit beyond the characteristically postmodern reading (does anyone still care about signifiers?); one need only mention your OOO, spec realism, accelerationism, and so forth. The fashions change, superficially put.

As for postmodern literature (or architecture, for that wacky manner), has this had anything to do with the thought mentioned above? By association, by more comparative studies in the humanities, we may grant it. It's an easy pairing, one would think after all. But let's not go too far. Now, as has already been said, this too may be démodé, by today's standards of LitErARy fICtiOn -

[Anonymous No.11777969]

we never went beyond modernism

post-modernism was based on the perceived complete failure of modernist systems and narratives
it's emerged since then that capitalism is unstoppable, either in land's (marx's) or fukuyama's conception, that the entire postmodern episode was but a tiny blip in grand scheme of things

[Anonymous No.11777970]

>>11777929
that photographer shouldn't be even touching that big cat, they'll have your hand in a split second even at their calmest

[Anonymous No.11777973]

>>11777069
it irritates them because he fills no postmodern criteria
not that the average anglo academic can read W properly either

[Anonymous No.11777975]

>>11777969
desu capitalism itself is a tiny blip in human history

labelling it unstoppable when it's only truly existed for around 100 years and only 40 in its current state is a bit premature

[Anonymous No.11777983]

>>11776536
/thread

[Anonymous No.11777989]

>>11776678
>>11776688
go to bed Jordan

[Anonymous No.11778001]

>>11777975
you're talking about late capitalism, textbook capitalism is at least a few thousand years old. see the East India Company and Kongo Gumi

[Anonymous No.11778002]

>>11777929
I think he's been happy enough for the last few years, recent bipolar episodes aside. He just never smiles because he unironically wants to look like people in old photos who never smiled.

[Anonymous No.11778007]

>>11778001
companies operating =/= capitalism

[Anonymous No.11778023]

anything that is obscuring capital and its central role in human evolution is just a coping mechanism

[Anonymous No.11778047]

>>11776615
>postmodernism dies and becomes ghostmodernism
>becomes ghostmodernism
>ghostmodernism
Holy shit, this nigga just shifted the paradigm

[Anonymous No.11778060]

what is post modernism like its ideals and stuff. I get its a departure from modernism but isn't that like traditionalism?

[Anonymous No.11778072]

>>11776615

[Anonymous No.11778084]

>>11778023
>conflating an artificially formed economic system with a natural process of biological development
???

[Anonymous No.11778096]

>>11778060
it doesn't have any, postmodernism is an epoch.

[Anonymous No.11778108]

>>11778096
whats next? neoRenaissance?

[Anonymous No.11778128]

>>11778108
I wish

[Anonymous No.11778137]

>>11778060
>but isn't that like traditionalism
indeed
but they don't understand that yet and keep deconstructing in hope to find freedom at the bottom of the barrel
they'll be properly surprised once they find out what does the world look like without modernism

[Anonymous No.11778159]

>>11778084
the driving force of expertise, specialization and evolution is competition. capitalism is the best game to play because it's the most competitive; it creates the most resilient, creative and intelligent people. communistic games are too shallow (a high verbal IQ priest class and an unmotivated working class) and oligarchical games breed too much resentment and anti-social behaviors. religious games are stable and somewhat productive but they're not as complex as capitalistic games, they too will lose out in the end

postmodernism and other -isms are distractions for bored high verbal IQ players. they're simply energizing a small disillusioned section of the population without them actually being able to escape the reality of capital

[Anonymous No.11778194]

Postmodernism relies on the application of Critical Theory, the idea that texts should be interpreted in light of their cultural context.

How the fuck is that dead? This entire conversation relies entirely on postmodern conventions. When you say something like "postmodern literature and art was influenced by the failure of grand theories to address the world's suffering following the second world war, while metamodernism relies on mediation between modern sentimentality and postmodern disaffection." you're making a postmodern statement. Postmodernism is an inexorable part of whatever comes after it, whether it be metamodern or post-post modern. So no, it's not dead at all. I guarantee you do it every day. Honestly it's like 90% of this board got all its information on literary criticism from Peterson.

[Anonymous No.11778197]

>>11778159
What are you even talking about. Retarded IQ wank aside, you are acting like history is some shitty paradox game.

[Anonymous No.11778200]

>>11778060
"postmodernism is generally defined by an attitude of skepticism, irony, or rejection toward the meta-narratives and ideologies of modernism, often calling into question various assumptions of Enlightenment rationality.[5] Consequently, common targets of postmodern critique include universalist notions of objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, language, and social progress.[5] Postmodern thinkers frequently call attention to the contingent or socially-conditioned nature of knowledge claims and value systems, situating them as products of particular political, historical, or cultural discourses and hierarchies.[5] Accordingly, postmodern thought is broadly characterized by tendencies to self-referentiality, epistemological and moral relativism, pluralism, subjectivism, and irreverence."

From Wikipedia, too early for me to actually type something out

[Anonymous No.11778203]

>>11778197
hey crusader kings is a good game

[Anonymous No.11778204]

>>11776615
What a good postmodernism, anon.

[Anonymous No.11778248]

>>11778197
evolutionary pressures and game theory are the most useful tools for understanding humanity. with the creation of capital we're actively selecting for intelligence above everything else. there are no other games you can play that will be better or more egalitarian because those games wont select for intelligence; they'll fail. their marketing campaigns wont be as clever, their weapons wont be as advanced and their people wont be as competitive

postmodernism is a "pointless" high verbal IQ game within the framework of capitalism. it's about as subversive as campus communism

[Anonymous No.11778685]

>>11776678
Contrary to all the

>LE U DONT UNDERSTAND POSTMODERNISM
>JORDAN PETERSON HAHAHA

this is actually fairly accurate

[Anonymous No.11778709]

>>11777989
cringe and bluepilled

it literally has nothing to do with jordan, it is a perfectly honest guess of pomo