/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11760696]

>There are people in /lit/ right NOW that believe hiphop is literature

[Anonymous No.11760711]

Brown people ruined Western literature

I unironically believe this

No group of people is more responsible for the plummet in standards and quality. Western literature has never (NEVER) been this bad, and the culture has never been browner. It's not a coincidence. People with an average IQ of 85 do not have very developed language skills.

[Anonymous No.11760714]

>>11760711
Fuck off

[Anonymous No.11760723]

>>11760711
You mean black people? "brown people" is not a thing

[Anonymous No.11760736]

>>11760711
western literature has been fucked since at least the 1860s so it cant be brown people entirely. we could blame the jews however, that is always a comfortable solution

[Anonymous No.11760759]

When is the hiphop meme going to fucking die? I fear its going to be never.

[Anonymous No.11760765]

>>11760759
someone will eventually invent something even more retarded and degenerate

[Anonymous No.11760772]

>>11760711
>forgets to blame women
don't forget to blame women too my dude

[Anonymous No.11760776]

On the one hand most rap you hear on the radio sucks majorly. On the other hand, it's the only medium with any popularity where something approximating poetry gets heard. Some rap is OK and there are a few rappers who have an undeniable gift for wordplay.

[Anonymous No.11760811]

>>11760772
so women, jews, brown people
I feel we should also be blaming leftists

[Anonymous No.11760818]

>>11760772
We need to go down the Alternative Hypothesis route and build a multiracial conservative ethnostate.

[Anonymous No.11760824]

>>11760818
>multiracial ethnostate

[Anonymous No.11760841]

>>11760759
We're on the downward spiral now.

Society grows strong when you place restrictions on behavior, the less you consume and enjoy the stronger a society is. Thats why monks and spiritual leaders aspire to live with as little as possible, it puts things into a "civilized" perspective. We as a society now are becoming more and more free and open with our desires and wants, thus making us less civilized. I do not believe we are to produce things of literary magnitude in our current state.

[Anonymous No.11760843]

>>11760711
>>11760772
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY

[Anonymous No.11760855]

>>11760759
That’s actually an interesting question, much more so than OPs thread desu. What is after hip hop?

I read this book (can’t remember who it’s by or what it’s called, got it at an airport for a plane ride because I left the one I was reading at home) that had the premise that biotech finally brought about immortality and so naturally the story stretched pretty far into the future. It postulated that hip hop was that last new genre to emerge.

[Anonymous No.11760858]

>>11760855
>living forever with only hiphop
jesus christ how horrifying

[Anonymous No.11760867]

Isn't op asking if all written word is literature?No matter it's arbitrarily attributed value?

[Anonymous No.11760892]

>>11760711
eyyyy don be talk like dat dis talk be racis don talk di mata top social media gain

[Anonymous No.11760908]

rock sucks ass and guitar solo's are cringe

[Anonymous No.11760917]

>>11760855
So did they just ignore everything post-hip hop

[Anonymous No.11760927]

>>11760759
>>11760736
>>11760841
>>11760858
Rhythm assisted poetry is the current wave of poetry and rappers are the most famous poets today. Most of them are bad but the greatest rappers are equivalent to the greatest poets. I'd go as far to say it's more difficult to write a great rap than it is a great poem, as rap is rhythmically limited, thus the meaning has to fit within this window.

Poets should be rappers
Rappers should be poets

[Anonymous No.11760928]

>>11760908
No one talks about rock. Rockfags at least don't spout about how rock is literature.

[Anonymous No.11760932]

>>11760928
Yes they do, they constantly laud Bob Dylan as a great writer and poet.

[Anonymous No.11760935]

>>11760908
Hiphop's "gangsta" vocabulary is cringe af, at least rock lyrics sound human.

[Anonymous No.11760937]

>>11760927
>the greatest rappers are equivalent to the greatest poets.

[Anonymous No.11760941]

>>11760927
>rappers are equivalent to the greatest poets.
Yea, sure, Eminem and Dante are the same thing. How daft do you have to be to believr this?

[Anonymous No.11760944]

>>11760927
Show me 1 (ONE) rap song that won't make me cringe.
>>11760932
Not in this thread. Not everyone who hates hiphop loves rock. Don't derail this thread with shitty remarks about other ape genres.

[Anonymous No.11760959]

Hip hop is essentially lullabyes for 'adults', so if you consider lullabyes literary then I guess so is hip hop. Both only appeal to children or the childish minded

[Anonymous No.11761006]

>>11760944
You make me cringe so I don't care about your personal tastes. A lot of rap speaks on current events and various facets of the human condition in a poetic way.

>>11760959
You don't know what literary means yet you call people 'childish minded' when your opinion is wrong. Rhythmically assisted poetry is essentially what rap is and it has plenty of content that is not a mere 'lullaby' for the masses. You can rap Pale Fire or Goethe too.

[Anonymous No.11761068]

>>11761006
Please, I beg you. Copy and paste a certain part from a rap song you consider to be very impressive. I want to see some poetic talent.

[Anonymous No.11761081]

>>11760696
If you haven't read the Autobiography of Gucci Mane, you can't call yourself well-read

[Anonymous No.11761082]

>>11761068
First of all, I don't care to impress you nor am I here to do your homework assignment but I will share something if you be more specific and tell me what you are looking for. For example, something that is theological, esoteric, 'wordy', emotionally packed or multi-syllabic.

[Anonymous No.11761100]

>>11761082
I'll take esoteric for $200 Alex

[Anonymous No.11761119]

>>11760696
shit art is still art
midbrow and lowbrow films are still cinematography.

rap is literature.
In any case, even assuming rap is wholly worthless in current culture, it's just a more rhythmically sophisticated version of metered poetry, so all you have to do is take the decent premise and do it in a way that's totally unrelated to its current context

[Anonymous No.11761124]

>>11761068
Dents, Nicks, Cracks, Splints and other Swedish laments
The best poetry barely makes sense

[Anonymous No.11761133]

>>11761100
The Holy Script from Genesis 1:26 says
"Let us make man in our image under our likeness"
First of all who's 'they?'
You see if God was truly a single entity, that's not what he would say
We as the Elohim, Gods and Goddesses
Possess a marvelously monstrous subconscious
Lifeforms that speak, in very high pitched sounds and squeaks
Short staccato clicks and beeps
A highly advanced form of speech
Even though to us it seems like they only chatterin' they teeth
They used to swim deep in the oceans beneath
Til they fins transformed into limbs and they started to creep
Then they evolved into mammals with feet
And walked right from the shorelines onto the beach
They used gravity, cause it's actually the only force around
That could slow time and the speed of light down
The energy grid network, opened the gateway from Earth
To any point in the universe
Livin organisms and various, geomagnetic gravitational, anomaly areas
Space expedition teams in the lunar regions
Reported seein, decapyramids and tetrahedrons
Liquid filled shoes, is what they used
To walk across the moon without leavin a clue
Of where they been for the past twenty-three billion years
Before life on the surface even appeared

[Anonymous No.11761139]

>>11760696
Hip-hop isn't literature it's hip-hop
Music isn't literature it's music

[Anonymous No.11761144]

>>11761133

[Anonymous No.11761160]

>>11760759
>>11760855

It literally already is. Trap music is the first step to the decline of hip hop’s popularity. Pre-2014 styles of hip hop are out of vogue and most exclusive fan of it fall into the same category as rock fans were back in the late 2000s. Trap music is straying further and further away from all the pillars of rap music, both techniquely and culturally. There’s enough white and ethnically vague trappers that trap music isn’t even exclusively associated with black culture. Techniquely, most trappers hardly rap; they rely more on effect-laden crooning or singing. Hip hop as you guys understand it doesn’t have a decade a left.

[Anonymous No.11761193]

>>11761160
You underestimate the willingness of the film, porn, and music industries to further and monetize the black gangster culture. I'm not coming from a right wing "dem jooz want us whites dead" perspective, but from a leftie "the bourgeoisie are using minorities as exotic slaves to entertain the masses" perspective.

[Anonymous No.11761206]

>>11760711
Okay this is epic

[Anonymous No.11761216]

>>11760944
https://youtu.be/s4iR668Ki3I

[Anonymous No.11761220]

>>11761193
And you’re overestimating how much of culture is “planned”. Why didn’t the film, porn and music industries continue to milk the Rock and Roll culture? Because people moved on organically from it to something else. The same will happen to hip hop and it’s associated culture.

[Anonymous No.11761224]

>>11761193
Hip hop hasn't been about gangster culture for a decade. Kanye West put an end to that with his middle class raps. There's a few gangster rappers left out there, but none are particularly big anymore and those that were changed their subject matter to match modern trends.

[Anonymous No.11761233]

>>11761220
With what, exactly?

[Anonymous No.11761241]

>>11761220
Rock is harder to maintain. You need 4 persons that are capable to play an instrumment and are prone to overdose or drink themselves to death, vs a single rapper that smokes weed and fucks women.
>>11761224
Change black gangster culture with urban black culture then. Kanye West is not talking, not thinking, and not behaving like Barack Obama.

[Anonymous No.11761256]

I don't think any of them are openly trying to create high art. Something can sound good in a song and not be Milton

[Anonymous No.11761279]

>>11761233
No one can predict it with any sort of accuracy, anon. Culture is unpredictable and trying to uncover a logic to it has been a philosophical project for several centuries now and it’s still a heated debate. If you want be to simply speculate, I dont think hip hop has much left to it because it’s culturally exclusionary. In other words it’s too “black”. It took a white rapper, Eminem, to bring it to the height it was. However, the average listener nowadays is neither impressed nor concerned about the proficiency or content of the rapping, to the point that Eminem, once the most popular and commercial viable rapper, is totally fucking cringe to most contemporary listeners (zoomers). (The last remnant of this style would be Kendrick). The same way that when you listen to Bon Jovi or whatever dadrock or momcore, you find it cringy and dated even though at one point it was the biggest and hottest thing. Hip hop isn’t exempt from this cultural trend. Traditional complex forms of rapping too are becoming more and more dated as modern trappers tend to more sing songy deliveries. I predict this will morph into actual singing and lose it’s rap origins. This delivery style and the trap rhythmic influence are in all the modern forms of mainstream music. This happened organically and is doesnt have the same novelty affect that dubstep did. I truly believe trap is here to stay as a rhythmic convention in mainstream music and eventually underground music. If you removed the vocals from many trap hits, they would be way more akin to other forms of electronic music such as jungle or techno (sometimes) than traditional forms of hip hop.

[Anonymous No.11761293]

>>11761279
>I dont think hip hop has much left to it because it’s culturally exclusionary. In other words it’s too “black”. It took a white rapper, Eminem, to bring it to the height it was.

I forgot to elebaorate on this point.

We’re moving towards a way more interconnected and “‘multicultural” iteration of popular culture. The average person nowadays knows about Reggeaton, Kpop, Bollywood, etc. Modern hip hop hasnt been infused with these influences. The dominance of black music figures can’t last as the market becomes wider and wider. Right now we’ve seen an influx of Hispanic-oriented music figures and hits. This is a trend that will increase, but i dont think will be dominant. I’d put my money that this century culturally will be the Asian century

[Anonymous No.11761295]

>>11761293
>hasnt
Has*

[Anonymous No.11761311]

>>11761279
What I personally think is that melody has already been the most popular facet of music and hip hop just happened to reach that stage.

[Anonymous No.11761322]

>>11761311
And do so is to void the essential element of hip hop music

[Anonymous No.11761572]

>>11760696
xxxtentacion>plato
not even memeing

[Anonymous No.11761586]

>>11760711
Gonna be a yikes from me.

You should consider going back.

[Anonymous No.11761929]

Am I the only one here then that grooves to juicy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JZom_gVfuw

[Anonymous No.11762034]

>>11761241
>Kanye West is not talking, not thinking, and not behaving like Barack Obama.

Don't talk shit about Yeezus

[Anonymous No.11762208]

>>11760711
BACK TO /POL/ WITH YE, THOU EVIL WITCH
I wouldn't really consider any music to be literature, although hip hop is definitely one of the more creative styles to come around in recent years.

[Anonymous No.11762234]

>>11760711
No, jews did. Brown people are just pawns.

[Anonymous No.11762322]

>Van Nguyen
How does that even happen ?

[Anonymous No.11763043]

>>11761133
This is a step ahead of Lil Pump but it's still absolute garbage
Such simple and forced rhymes, to say nothing of the jarring cadence.

[Anonymous No.11763631]

>>11760696
People today are even trying to equate raps rhythm and flow with Homer's Dactylic hexameter.Why must they shit on everything the west holds sacred?

[Anonymous No.11763641]

>>11763631
because they hate us

[Anonymous No.11763644]

>>11760714
>>11760723
>>11760736
>>11760772
>>11760843
>>11761206
>>11762208
>>11762234
Since when was it the janny policy to be deleting completely true and relevant posts

[Anonymous No.11763720]

>>11763644
There's a jew problem on the internet just like there is outside it.

[Anonymous No.11763747]

>>11761133

[Anonymous No.11763782]

If the lyric of a song is a great poem then why it can’t be considered literature?

I don’t know much of rap, so I can’t tell of it’s quality, but there are some song lyrics that are better than many twentieth century and contemporary poems (like many of the works of Pound and E.E. Cummings, for example).


This one is not Shakespeare, or Emily Dickinson, but it’s not bad. One can say it is poetry:

Apparently I'm second generation black Caribbean
And half white Scottish whatever that means
See lately I feel confused with the boxes
Cause to me all they do is breed conflict
It's not that I've lost touch with the reality
Racism, sexism and nationality
Just to me it all seems like insanity
Why must I rob you of your humanity
To feel good about mine?
It's all about crime
Dehumanizing is how I justify it
So I must keep on lying about the history of Africa
So I can live the with massacres
And repeat my mantra of Muslim and terrorist
So I can sleep at night as bombs take flight
Eyes open wide but I'm blind to the sight
Too busy chasing the perfect life
And the working class keep them uneducated
Truly educated men could never be a racist
To educate is to draw out what is within
Are we not all the same under the skin?
I got a heart like yours that pumps blood and oxygen
And insecurities are a whole lot of them I'm scared like you deep down
I really do care that world is not fair like you
But I don't even believe my own prayers like you
Chasing career going nowhere like you
Lost in a fog of my own insecurities
I hold myself up as an image of purity
And I judge everybody else
By the color of their skin or the size of their wealth
But it's not good for my health
As the only one I ever really judge is myself
The oppressor must suffer like the oppressed
Though I pretend I'm in control of this mess
By inflating my ego, puffing my chest
I see my weakness, and need to show strength
Or what we think strong is because if we're honest?
True strength is the strength to be honest
And if I'm honest I am just tired
If I'm honest I am just tired
Tired of everyday filling up my car and knowing that
I'm paying for the bombs in Iraq
Tired of pretending like it don't hurt my heart
Of wanting change but not knowing where to start
Tired of listening to all the conditioning
And all the forms they got me filling in
Next time you see what is a thug and despise him
Please know I was just like him
Cause I was like eight the first time I saw crack
Same time I first smoked weed choking on blowbacks

cont

[Anonymous No.11763789]

>>11763782

First time I saw knifes penetrate flesh
It was meat cleavers to the back of the head
As I grew and teenage years passed
Many more knifes pierced and the shots blast
And I not saying I had the worst upbringing
But there's a million young men just like me in prison
We complain about racism and elevate clowns
With their trousers down swinging their dicks round
Maybe that is not quite literal
But everything they do is just as stereotypical
To my real fans I feel your pain
And I get the messages, but don't complain
That we ain't got more fame for paying our part
They can keep the charts all I want is your hearts
They can keep the charts all I want is your hearts
They can keep the charts all I want is your hearts
Calling it black radio, don't make laugh
So is black music all about tits and arse?
You don't represent nothing, you're just pretending
When was the last time you ever played Hendrix?
Or Miles Davis or John Coltrane?
Or Ella Fitzgerald or Billie Holiday?
We can call it urban to me that's cool
If urban means street, that includes jazz too
And rock for that matter
Go ask Mick Jagger or Jimmy Page what they were listening to - the blues
Not discrediting, love Zeppelin too, just giving credit where credit is due
That blood soaked word rappers still use
All it really shows is that we still self abuse
That was the word that was used to kill Kelso Cochrane and Emmett Till
That was the word that the conscience eased
And made people pleased to hung you from trees
That was the word that let the whips crack
No matter what you say you can't take it back
And I can say their black so I feel their pain easier
But 1915 look at Armenia
If the whole world is human stupidity
Though we choke ourselves to death quite literally
And I can talk with my comfortable mouth
With my comfortable clothes and my comfortable house
The tables will turn, we can but stall them
Every empire on this earth has fallen
So unless we can find another way
Maybe not today, but it will come one day
It may sound like I'm bitter but in fact truth be told I am quite the opposite
I wake everyday and am overwhelmed
Just to be alive and be like no one else
And the sheer weight of the thought of space
Is enough to keep my little ego in place
All that we chase and try to replace, all along it was right in our face
The only way we can ever change anything
Is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
The only way we can ever change anything
Look in the mirror and find no enemy

[Anonymous No.11763801]

>>11763747

This meme doesn’t represent reality. I just pass a car the other day with a stamp that reads: “God created a safe way to have sex: it’s called marriage”. The guy who was driving was fat, bearded, with glasses and a fedora. 100% real story.

[Anonymous No.11763812]

>>11760927
I bet you think slam poetry is good. Get bent.

[Anonymous No.11763819]

>>11763801
Whats your problem with that based and redpilled guy who happened to appreciate 50s fashion?

[Anonymous No.11763836]

I bet at least 3/4 of the posters ITT haven't read one collection of poetry within the last 12 months, not counting Milk and Honey.

[Anonymous No.11763863]

>>11763782
>Truly educated men could never be a racist
Wasn't Einstein a racist?

[Anonymous No.11763915]

>>11763863
>Wasn't Einstein a racist?

I guess that you that phrase might mean that one that is truly educated possesses more than pure intelligence and culture, but also a sort of qualities like empathy, equanimity, courage, justice, non-preconceived notions, etc.

Of course, if we count general culture and intellectual capacity as education then a lot of educated men were racist.

That said, Einstein was notoriously non-racist. He was actually very embarrassed by the way Americans treated black people.

He famously defended and gave shelter to the black singer Marian Anderson:

>She was still denied rooms in certain American hotels and was not allowed to eat in certain American restaurants. Because of this discrimination, Albert Einstein, a champion of racial tolerance, hosted Anderson on many occasions, the first being in 1937 when she was denied a hotel before performing at Princeton University. She last stayed with him months before he died in 1955.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Anderson

And he was also openly defensive of the Civil Rights movements:

https://www.livescience.com/50051-albert-einstein-civil-rights.html

He was not only extremely intelligent and creative, but also a wise and kind soul (of course, he was human: in the end of the relationship between him and Mileva, his first wife, he acted towards her with an almost autistic glacial impoliteness and rudeness).

[Anonymous No.11763932]

>>11760759

Never? The time to end it would have been the late 70s before it became mainstream. After Grandmaster Flash put out The Message it was already too late.

[Anonymous No.11763953]

>Clown niggaz, you ain't got a chance at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJUF3Je3eeo

[Anonymous No.11764008]

>>11761241
>#woke culture

Genuinely worse than gangster culture and probably more damaging to society as a whole

[Anonymous No.11764011]

>>11763836
the Carmina Burana is an excellent example of poetry,Carl Orff set many of the medieval poems to music.

[Anonymous No.11764110]

>>11763782
rhyme being no necessary adjunct or true ornament of poem or good verse, in longer works especially, but the invention of a barbarous age, to set off wretched matter and lame meter;

[Anonymous No.11764497]

>>11760696
>meter & rhyme
>strong ties to a specific cultural identity
>artists are credited mainly for their use of words, rather than their use of sounds
>has an informal canon
Sounds like /lit/ to me.

[Anonymous No.11764577]

>>11761119
>“I started off with poetry. With writing poetry, in junior high and high school. And poets, I saw, were looked on as wimps. So I started turning [my] poetry into songs, and that got more attention…It is my opinion that I started to rap when I was writing poetry…Rap is poetry, to me. Storytelling, poetry…even iambic pentameter is Rap. It’s the way you write it, the structure.” - Tupac

its (((poetic))) but i wouldn't say its poetry if it's rap.
i don't consider any musical genre to be literature because that reduces away an essential component of the intended art.

[Anonymous No.11764591]

>>11763915
Einstein was actually racist. He just used blacks as a cudgel against white goyim.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jun/12/einsteins-travel-diaries-reveal-shocking-xenophobia

> In China, the man who famously once described racism as “a disease of white people” describes the “industrious, filthy, obtuse people” he observes. He notes how the “Chinese don’t sit on benches while eating but squat like Europeans do when they relieve themselves out in the leafy woods. All this occurs quietly and demurely. Even the children are spiritless and look obtuse.” After earlier writing of the “abundance of offspring” and the “fecundity” of the Chinese, he goes on to say: “It would be a pity if these Chinese supplant all other races. For the likes of us the mere thought is unspeakably dreary.”

[Anonymous No.11764612]

>>11764591
>“industrious, filthy, obtuse people
pretty accurate actually lol
but yeah theyre going to win in the long the Chinese

[Anonymous No.11764760]

>>11764612
They won't win because they can't play the aulos and sing at the same time

[Anonymous No.11765021]

Is wittgenstein the final boss in current philosophy? Where should I start with him?

[Anonymous No.11765285]

>>11765021
He's a jew. He's not a part of western philosophy.

[Anonymous No.11765321]

Funny how white people don't try to claim bands like Pink Floyd are literature but niggers get a free ride on their garbage.
Its almost as if they know their work can't stand on its own legs and they have to as always piggy back off the achievement of whites to pretend as though they matter
To say hiphop is literature is meaningless as it only highlights the importance of the white tradition and places nigger rhymes against it to bask in the feintest association. Something white musicians would cringe at

[Anonymous No.11765390]

>>11761224
Tekashi69.

[Anonymous No.11765393]

>>11765021
for language:
>Tractatus
>Blue and Brown
>Philisophical Investigations
>back to Tractatus
then On Certainty and that other one im forgetting

[Anonymous No.11765401]

>>11765321
remind me of who is the pulitzer literature prizewinner was in '16

[Anonymous No.11765403]

>>11765401
Nigger Lenigger

[Anonymous No.11765700]

>>11760759
I disagree with this, solely on the basis that hiphop has already died in a sense. Or to put better has already evolved into a new direction even though it has the same name compare hiphop from early 2000 and before to hip hop or " mumble rap" music now.
>>11760696
Rap and hip hop are quite close to slam poetry. It's literature just in you opinion not very good. There are some hip hop artists with a lot of creativity and very good with words. I personally like hiphop with some meaning like; immortal tech, MF doom, lowkey and la coka nostra and other artists of that old school throwback genre.

[Anonymous No.11765708]

>>11761311
theyve reached an almost singsongy thing where the focus is half the rhythm, the words are still sort of staccato, but the melody is in the foreground

[Anonymous No.11765745]

>>11763782
>>11763789
Akala is an actual wordmsith i really like these lines: >True strength is the strength to be honest
And if I'm honest I am just tired

I like such "woke" rap a lot more then just mindless dribble like uggh yah fuck biches drugs gucci gang shit. At least its an attempt to use words in a sophisticated manner rather then a cash grab preying on the carnal desires.

[Anonymous No.11765883]

[Anonymous No.11765919]

>>11765883
Fuck off back to /pol/ schizo

[Anonymous No.11765942]

>>11765919
Sorry, is there something you would like to dispute?

[Anonymous No.11765954]

>>11765942
No one wants to waste their time with your kind.

[Anonymous No.11765955]

[Verse 1]
Man made the Web, you don't need a name
Man made of faults, I ain't too ashamed
Every thought I had, put it in a box (box)
Everybody see it just before the cops
Trolling, trolling, trolling these niggas
Rick Rolling these niggas, they mad cause they don't know any better
"Hold up, it's the kid—quick, tell him he can't sit with us!"
Fuck it, got money, bought friends like I'm TBS
VVS, I can see it all with the clarity
Real deep, hope they dig a nigga 'fore they bury me
Even though, we were told to go, where they wouldn't go
Hella slow, that's that dial up, watch it pile up, fly

[Hook]
Andrew Auernheimer
Pulling on her weave, it's that Andrew Auernheimer
(scratching) Andrew Auernheimer
Pulling on her weave, it's that Andrew Auernheimer
(scratching) Andrew Auernheimer
Pulling on her weave, it's that Andrew Auernheimer
(scratching) Andrew Auernheimer
Pulling on her weave, it's that Andrew Auernheimer

[Anonymous No.11765957]

>>11761133

Holy shit that is so basic. Why are blacks so goddamn proud of their cognitive dissonance?

[Anonymous No.11765961]

>>11765955
[Verse 2]
We are the dreams of our parents lost in the future
Who hide the deepest desires and wear a mask like a lucha—
Door, open, we were smoking in the hotel
The vapors went through the hallway, the manager pissed as hell
I mean, where's the line between Donnie G and Gambino?
He hang with girls like he Lena but needed some time to re-up
Tequila in the cantina, 30 dollars I swallowed
The Sauza so malo, then she said, "You need to grow up
You been doing this for too long
That Camp was a million years ago, sing me a different song"
Whether you're trolling or controlling, just a reminder
You think you get it, you don't, it's that Andrew Auernheimer
I'm gone—Now I'm back
Give a fuck or give 'em hell, just not a chance to react
Tyler Durden, this burden hurting, they said there was curtains
Certain demise, look in his eyes, the pain inadvertent
I could've stayed where I was and have a life you'd be proud of
But I'd rather chase things never thought of
It was all love, saying, "Go hard"
Making dope, it's a trap, Ackbar backfired
Panic dreams so it seems we're meant to die
I had to figure it out; "It's the best," no, that's a lie
Had to get some stuff off my chest, I vaporized
High on my own, it took time to realize
Because the internet, mistakes are forever
But if we fuck up on this journey, at least we're together
Man, I wish I could go back and tell that kid it's make-believe
Make 'em believe in themselves, people who needed my help
Feelings I felt, keeling myself, no one's ever been this lost
I just get the information, retweet it or say it sucks
I just got the motivation, your talent's just bunch of luck
Hard work and dedication but lately it's run amok
Waking up in these places I don't remember
Texts from people I never met, doors left open
(Who is this? Don't do it, where are you?
Who is this? Who is this) I don't know who I am anymore
Still on the beat though
Still in the game but he moves with a cheat code
Slowest connection ever, my life inside a computer
Them bands that'll make 'em dance, my wallet's Lollapalooza
The violence, first-person shooter
First person to move, first person to speak
My mils aren't meek, they scream in the streets
Losing my frame of reference, these pieces of shit for breakfast
Funny, the day you're born, that's really your death sentence
I met this girl at a dinner, we conversating
She beautiful in the face but her voice is truly amazing
Plus she write her own shit, becoming so close knit
Smoke up and talk in the evening, she helping me focus
No Anna Nicole Smith, she getting hers
Niggas take her props like a musical, live and learn
She say she feel alone all the time, I'm similar
I meet her in my dreams on the moon, I visit her
Every night I text her: "I wanna solve the world, I think I need your help"
She text me, "How you gon' trust somebody when you don't trust yourself?"

[Anonymous No.11765967]

>there are people who don't listen to a certain type of music because of spooks

[Anonymous No.11765968]

>>11765961
I mean she right though, 45 like a light-bulb
And I could've died like my iPhone but I kept going like a psycho
And I took chance like a dice roll, dropping jewels like it's puberty
Wrote a note on the glass: "You see what these labels do to me?"
Texts said, "I'm wet"; I said, "Hold up, wait up a minute"
H2O plus my D, that's my hood, I'm living in it
Never forget this feeling, never gon' reach a million
Eventually all my followers realize they don't need a leader
Stay on your own shit, fuck what these clones think
Just remember that you the shit, but act like it don't stink
We were childish but had to grow up
When you spitting real shit eventually you throw up
Realities like allergies, I'm afraid to go nuts
Life's the biggest troll but the joke is on us
Yeah, the joke's you showed up

You're here now
You have to help me
You have to help me
I need you—you have to help me
You have to help me
You have to help me
Please help me
Please help me
Please, please help me
Please—

[Anonymous No.11765970]

>>11765954
You aren't making sense. What is your issue with the information presented here? >>11765883

[Anonymous No.11765971]

>>11765745
>True strength is the strength to be honest And if I'm honest I am just tired
Sounds like a norm MacDonald joke

[Anonymous No.11765986]

>>11765970
What does it prove? A few scattered people who have jobs in the music industry have a certain type of ancestry? That doesn't say much at all so stop projecting that some boogeyman is corrupted music by promoting a certain genre.

[Anonymous No.11765987]

Why were operas never considered literature but plays were?

If it's just the presence of a musical component, then hip-hop by default belongs to a different medium than literature. If you accept that "popular" music like Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, and Miles Davis can be great works of art in the music medium, then there is no reason to exclude hip-hop from that realm of possibility.

[Anonymous No.11765988]

>>11763782
Reading rap lyrics is always a tiring endeavor. They're far too dependent on the beat to sound good.

I don't think hip hop will ever overcome its state as pop music. That doesn't make it bad, but it's still far from being art.

[Anonymous No.11765996]

>>11761224
Most trap is gangster rap though

[Anonymous No.11766003]

>>11765986
It is one example of many highlighting how jews subversively attack their host and why they've been kicked out of everywhere they've ever been and will soon be again. You think you're on ręddit, pussy?

[Anonymous No.11766020]

>>11765988
>but it's still far from being art
Elaborate.

[Anonymous No.11766057]

>>11766003
pretty weak bait

[Anonymous No.11766064]

>>11766057
our thread might be blessed with that hyper autistic leftypol poster who psots the 'women and black people are inferior' thing

[Anonymous No.11766069]

>>11766020
Even at it's best it's more of a mass produced product engineered to sell than a meaningful creative endeavor. It's closer to propaganda (which to be fair, can sometimes achieve artistry and pornography (which never can) than art.

[Anonymous No.11766082]

>>11766069
where's your second close parenthesis m8
do you think this is a game

[Anonymous No.11766094]

>>11761082
It’s because you are ashamed of your nigger tier aesthetics. You should be.
Anyone who would try to elevate rap to art because they realize everyone else will think them, rightly, a sub 80 iq moron with trashy tastes, should die. Quickly.

[Anonymous No.11766097]

>>11766082
I also used "it's" when I should have used "its," and I should have probably put a comma after "best." That's what I get for not proofreading.

[Anonymous No.11766115]

>>11766097
>Even at it's best, it's more of a mass produced product engineered to sell than a meaningful creative endeavor. It's closer to propaganda (which to be fair, can sometimes achieve artistry), and pornography(which never can) than art.

it is now a work of art, we have done god's work today here

i am thinking however about the nature of the parenthesis after pornography, if it were written in a comma bracketing instead of parenthesis bracketing, you would have one a comma after never can. But here we have no inital comma, so putting one there outside the parenthesiss seems weird.
I cannot live with such ambiguity in my heart

[Anonymous No.11766140]

>>11766115
>>Even at its best, it's more of a mass produced product engineered to sell than a meaningful creative endeavor. It's closer to propaganda (which to be fair, can sometimes achieve artistry), and pornography(which never can), than art.

forgot the its change, what's more i realized that you will want a comma there anyway because it is enclosing the pornography clause, which was an addition, i think
this sentence will not conquer us anon

what if we were to strike out boldly at replace it all with commas
Even at its best, it's more of a mass produced product engineered to sell than a meaningful creative endeavor. It's closer to propaganda, which to be fair, can sometimes achieve artistry, and pornography, which never can, than art.

is this too comma filled have we gone down a wrong turn

[Anonymous No.11766175]

>>11761160
Evolution of a genre doesn’t mean it’s core values cease. The gentrification on rap has been explosive in the past couple years with more and more lighter folk joining in this debacle. Hip-hop has actually been getting more and more recognition among literary figures in schools purely because it is an efficient and not extremely time consuming genre or style of poetry. Where we may see hundreds of allusions in an Eliot poem, the average individual doesn’t want to have to digest such a plethora of information. They want relatable, easy to follow content.
That is the nature of most literary movements. While content is lacking in this particular genre of poetry, rhythm and rhyme are quite apparent in some of the better lyricists. We will always have bad reflections on any genre who will still get fame notable nearly every single book this millennium so far.

Lit should actually see hip hop as a way to interest more people in poetry itself but instead they use another npc argument to exclude a demographic in the hope they have a slither of knowledge more than their peer.

>>11760696
>>11760841
>>11760855
>>11760927
>>11761006
>>11761119
>>11761133
>>11761160
>>11761193
>>11761224
>>11761279

[Anonymous No.11766233]

>>11766115
>>11766140
Thanks for the writing advice. I'l always cherish it.

[Anonymous No.11766243]

>>11766175
>Hip-hop has actually been getting more and more recognition among literary figures in schools purely because it is an efficient and not extremely time consuming genre or style of poetry
It's because academic leftists have come to believe that there is some sort of emanicpatory potential in popular music, and that apparently is enough to elevate it.

[Anonymous No.11766478]

>>11765987
>Why were operas never considered literature but plays were?
Wrong premise. Dramatic scripts and opera libretti are literature. A realization/staging of such works isn't literature anymore, it belongs to a different art form (theater, musical theater)

[Anonymous No.11766516]

>>11766243
Poptimism is truly one of the worst new memes

[Anonymous No.11766522]

>>11766175

Confirmed paid psyop poster.

[Anonymous No.11766701]

>>11765883
a white/Latino guy I went to school with got a recording deal and the contract was worth something like $5mil more just because he wasn’t black which made him more unique in the industry.

Fact is that blacks seized America’s cultural rudder by way of the Hegelian master/slave dialectic and now any black person with a creative bone in their body (most of them, let’s be honest) have a huge advantage in the music industry bc they get “put on” by friends and family who are already there. And with the rise of social media we’re literally watching artists rise from the bottom to the top

I didn’t read your whole post but I live in southern Cali, I’ve worked at recording studios, and I know people in the industry, I fact you just reminded me that my cousin was a one-hit wonder in the 2000’s.
There’s no bogeyman, just people with money trying to get more of it

[Anonymous No.11766728]

>>11761216
>Hold the cold one like he hold a old gun
>Like he hold the microphone and stole the show for fun
>Or a foe for ransom, flows is handsome
>O's in tandem, anthem, random, tantrum
>Phantom of the Grand Ole Opry ask the dumb hottie
>Masked pump shotty, somebody stop me
>Hardly come sloppy on a retarded hard copy
>After rockin' parties he departed in a jalopy
>Watch the droptop papi
>Known as the grimy limey, slimy— try me
>Blimey! Simply smashing in a fashion that's timely
>Madvillain dashing in a beat-rhyme crime spree
>We rock the house like rock 'n roll
>Got more soul than a sock with a hole
>Set the stage with a goal
I like listening to MF Doom, but let's all be honest with ourselves. This isn't good as poetry. It carries sparse meaning. It's mostly brags for the sake of fitting a clever (but obscure) rhyme. Rap is weak /lit/ because the rappers conform to the beat too closely so they can keep the flow musical, and it makes it bad as writing as a result.

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766742]

>>11760696
>how a group of journalists took credit for inner city black kids in the US rediscovering and popularizing the bardic tradition for an entire nation
Good thing Pitchfork is here to tell me all about how awesome and important music journalists are.

[Anonymous No.11766747]

>>11766742
Journalists really are the worst people on Earth. Self-important vultures.

[Anonymous No.11766750]

>>11766728
MF Doom is literally a joke rapper though.
You can’t take something that’s musical, remove the music, then expect it to hold its merit in another medium. movie scripts don’t read well, literature doesn’t sing well, and classical paintings don’t look good animated.
That being said, ITT: post best verses
>Bitch I'm morose and lugubrious
>I'ma let the Uzi spit
>Turn his face into gooey shit
>Bitch I'm lugubrious, my trap game the stupidest
>You acting like I'm new to this
>I been sick since the uterus
>I equate your uselesness to bitches that are bootyless
>Your Youtube page is viewerless, it's humorous
>Flyer than a stewardess, you pussies smell like tuna fish
>You wanna kill me? Try and prove it but I bet you can't maneuver it

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766753]

>>11766728
>rap is bad, because rappers have to conform to a beat
Do you know anything about the challenging poetic forms that exist?
Do you know how much more restrictive poetry can be than Rap has ever been?
Do you know anything about the great poems that are written in these forms?

[Anonymous No.11766773]

>>11766753
Oh my bad I guess they're just bad lyricists 'cause they're dumb. Sorry, I was just thinking there must be some more charitable reason.
>>11766750
It was the example given by some guy. That's why I responded to it. MF Doom's rap's pretty funny. And by my standard, if you can't remove the music and just read it, it's not literature. You can say it's a skillful art or whatever you want, but that's not what poetry is. These are different things.

[Anonymous No.11766781]

>>11765745
>At least its an attempt to use words in a sophisticated manner rather then a cash grab preying on the carnal desires.

Except it's done dishonestly. At least carnal desire is real. I'll respect a guccimane or boosie over a kendrick lamar any fucking day.

[Anonymous No.11766786]

>>11760696
Classical before the 20th century is the genre containing intellectually aesthetic music comparable to literature. Everything else is surface level, yes Jim Morrison and King Crimson included.

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766787]

>>11766773
>idiotically shitting on the foundations of an entire artform is a more charitable reason
>bad art = low intelligence
My god, do you even think before you post?

[Anonymous No.11766792]

>>11760696
this is just like comic books and competitive gaming
some people like something that wider society doesn't take seriously or as seriously as they would like so they make up some bullshit to elevate it

this isn't a comic book, it's a graphic novel.
this isn't a video game, it's an esport.

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766798]

>>11766781
>>11766781
>kendrick lamar
>dishonest
Kendrick Lamar is hip-hop's DFW, except Lamar has actually achieved sincerity instead of regressing further into layers of irony.

[Anonymous No.11766802]

>>11766787
>>idiotically shitting on the foundations of an entire artform is a more charitable reason
I SAID IT WASN'T LITERATURE. I LISTEN TO RAP. FOR FUCK'S SAKE YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING YOU WANT. You drooler.

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766813]

>>11766802
>I SAID IT WASN'T LITERATURE
You're wrong.

[Anonymous No.11766819]

>>11766798
>Lamar has actually achieved sincerity

[Anonymous No.11766825]

>>11766813
Google defines it as: "written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit."
That means it has to be of superior and lasting quality when in its written form. That's a very sensible interpretation. If you can't at least agree that this is a sensible interpretation, even if you don't agree with it, you are a giant, walking baby. If these words don't perform except in their musical context, I don't think they can be considered literature. We do not call Green Sleeves literature, even though it reads decently on paper. I'm being pretty charitable with my qualification.

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766851]

>>11766825
>especially = has to be
wrong
>If these words don't perform except in their musical context, I don't think they can be considered literature.
Define "perform" in a way that lets you throw out musical lyricists and keep dramatic playwrights.

[Anonymous No.11766857]

>>11766851
why are you bothering with >>11766825 ? easy to tell from the way they write how vapid and irredeemable they are

[Anonymous No.11766876]

>>11766857
You mean with punctuation and complete sentences? Hot take. Possible samefag?
>>11766851
>>especially = has to be
>wrong
If you'll notice, "especially" doesn't qualify "written". It qualifies "those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit".
>Define "perform" in a way that lets you throw out musical lyricists and keep dramatic playwrights.
Easy. Lyrics are created for the context of music. When I took Doom out of that context, it did not hold up in terms of conveying an overarching message, even if the song is lovely. It does not read well without the musical accompaniment, and its lyrics will not be read in their pure written form such that they will be considered "of superior or lasting artistic merit," at least specifically as writing. This applies to other song lyrics from great songs which don't necessarily hold up as "literature." Plays, some of them at least, are laden with prose which can be read or spoken without accoutrement. Some few lyrics, and some few plays (more than music) can be considered literature, in my view. If you want me to appeal to the function of words as communication tools, you should take note that my outlook is the most common in the Anglophonic world.

[Anonymous No.11766927]

>>11760696

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766941]

>>11766876
>If you'll notice, "especially" doesn't qualify "written". It qualifies "those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit".
I know. Please explain why you believe a work "has to be of superior and lasting quality when in its written form" rather than just in it's written form in order to be considered literature.
>Lyrics are created for the context of music.
Plays are written for the stage.
>When I took Doom out of that context, it did not hold up in terms of conveying an overarching message, even if the song is lovely.
Irrelevant to the definition of literature.
>It does not read well without the musical accompaniment
Irrelevant to the definition of literature.
>its lyrics will not be read in their pure written form such that they will be considered "of superior or lasting artistic merit"
Irrelevant again, as their "superior or lasting artistic merit" does not qualify status as literature. Your definition only requires that literature consist of written works, which rap lyrics are.
>at least specifically as writing.
It does not matter how works are enjoyed. Shakespeare is still literature even if his plays are only watched and never read.
>This applies to other song lyrics from great songs which don't necessarily hold up as "literature."
The written word in any form is literature.
>Plays, some of them at least, are laden with prose which can be read or spoken without accoutrement.
This is irrelevant to the definition of literature, but even if it weren't you would still be wrong as rap is often spoken without music.
>Some few lyrics, and some few plays (more than music) can be considered literature, in my view.
The definition of literature is not based on artistic merit. If you are willing to accept that some song lyrics are literature, you must accept that all song lyrics are literature unless you actually believe that a shitty work of literature can't exist.

[Anonymous No.11766959]

>>11763631
Imagine holding her hand and walking through a garden on a nice day. That would be funny, right? haha

[Anonymous No.11766966]

>>11760736
>western lit has been fucked since it became modern, I’m gonna blame ze jews

You just outed your irrational scapegoating as nothing but a symptom of the estrangement of modernity. Purrfect.

[Anonymous No.11766977]

>Indie music critics who sold out giving themselves a pat on the back for doing something they didn't do to a genre that is in the process of almost completely abandoning its lyrical roots for the sake of fetishizing beat production

why is p4k such trash, theyve never been good at writing, but how did they go from indie taste makers to pop culture piggybackers?

[Anonymous No.11766979]

>>11766941
>Please explain why you believe a work "has to be of superior and lasting quality when in its written form" rather than just in it's written form in order to be considered literature.
Well if your definition is just that it has to be writable, intended as art, and appreciated by at least someone, that's fine. Lots of things are considered literature that many people don't consider literature, typically. That's an abnormal definition. No longer much of a point in having the word anymore, is there.
>Plays are written for the stage.
Not my central argument. This point is addressed later in what I already wrote.
>Irrelevant to the definition of literature.
To your definition, apparently. A definition no one shares, nor is written in the dictionary. You know that if you just dick-hop a fancier word as a means to gain prestige for your medium of choice, it only degrades the word if not enough people are on board?
>It does not matter how works are enjoyed. Shakespeare is still literature even if his plays are only watched and never read.
They're not literature when you're watching them. I've watched Shakespeare many times and not once has anyone, including those who introduced plays or written programs, described watching Shakespeare as "watching literature" or anything of that sort.
>The written word in any form is literature.
See above. You've neutered a classic, common definition to appeal to your vanity. It doesn't degrade rap lyrics that they aren't literature.
>The definition of literature is not based on artistic merit.
Functionally, it is. People make a qualification between the two. If you think "literature" and "assembled words from one thing or another" are synonymous, then you are not using English effectively, either colloquially or properly.

[Anonymous No.11766987]

>>11766977
Following trends for good boy points makes you a husk. Americans are ever more dependent on head pats and lack internal motivation or passion. Even their favourite mythology, Harry Potter, involves perfect daddy figures, privileges, and a clear path to success that doesn't involve getting your hands too dirty -- one that doesn't correctly model reality.

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11766991]

>>11766979
>That's an abnormal definition.
>written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit.
>especially =/= required
>written works
It's your fucking definition.

[Anonymous No.11766996]

>>11766991
Especially also doesn't mean "ignore this word." That clause is there for a reason. Not everything not regarded generally as having lasting merit is literature, otherwise the definition would just say "written works."

[January !MrMnqxS.bg No.11767039]

>>11766996
You're arguing that if a written work is not considered to be superior or have lasting artistic merit then it cannot be literature.
If every literate person died tomorrow, there would be nobody to consider a book superior or to judge it to have lasting artistic merit.
Every single book would still exist, but according to your definition, literature would cease to exist.
That is retarded.

[Anonymous No.11767044]

>>11760941
The only difference is Dante already made canon, where Eminem only made multiplatinum.

Divine comedy has : -diss tracks, -selfpity, -homages to mentor, -experiments with phonic effects

It's quite the same, except Eminem is not a classically schooled politico, so he draws from a different pool of reference.

Of course Dante is not "the same" as Eminem; Dante is not "the same" as Milton either. I'm not sure this is a marker of merit; there is not one canonical author who IS the same as another.

[Anonymous No.11767061]

>>11767039
>You're arguing that if a written work is not considered to be superior or have lasting artistic merit then it cannot be literature.
Partially yes, but not precisely. I'm pointing out that literature doesn't purely mean "written work". There is a qualifying phrase "especially," which doesn't mean sometimes, occasionally, or even often. This means that a quality is trying to be addressed which is not concretely addressable. This qualify is implicitly collectively-informed.
>If every literate person died tomorrow, there would be nobody to consider a book superior or to judge it to have lasting artistic merit.
>Every single book would still exist, but according to your definition, literature would cease to exist.
>That is retarded.
This is really a question of platonic form. Do you view the literature as having a 'literatureness' which is sacred beyond human definition? If so, then without a human to interpret its beauty, the literature would waiting to be discovered by a sufficiently advanced being. Do you think the literature has a series of innate qualities limited to its physical properties and its 'literatureness' is therefore a purely subjective quality, then yes, literature would cease to exist. And there's nothing retarded about that, it's common sense. We're speaking a language and if "literature" is a socially defined category, then the category couldn't persist without people using it to identify their surroundings.

[Anonymous No.11767218]

>>11766701
All this gibberish and zero mention of Jews who have always been the payrollers of every black musician

[Anonymous No.11767870]

>>11760855
Well my man "the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls". It's been some decades the elite doesn't have cultural space for new music, you can name musicians like Xenakis, Cage & etc, but they were never really heard on prosper family houses. At the same time the poor children came in contact with blues, jazz, than folk and rock, now there's hip hop and you can't say artists like Nas, GZA and Doom don't have any talent in rhythms and poetry. These simple people from low and medium classes are the ones to tell what's next, even if it only happens around the underground

[Anonymous No.11767897]

>>11767044
good post

[Anonymous No.11767923]

>>11760759
rock music lasted half a century as the dominant genre.

maybe 2050 will bring something new

[Anonymous No.11767969]

>>11761068
And seeing that today is the day that I wanna play the game
With the big mrain
I'm gonna show you what's up and not up
Because it's going down in my town
You write me down in your books cause I'm gonna have the hooks
Of the big tooks
Man all the ladies want me
But it's gonna be a game to play the reign of the mario

[Anonymous No.11768191]

>>11760696
MC Ride is the one and only rapper with any literary merit.
Try to prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.11768290]

>>11768191
>Try to prove me wrong.
you have to be 18 to post here

[Anonymous No.11768307]

>>11768290
Name a better rapper.
You can't.

[Anonymous No.11768410]

>>11768307
you have to be 18 to post here.