/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11756481]

What do they read?

[Anonymous No.11756492]

>>11756481
Twitter

[Anonymous No.11756528]

>>11756481
Natural Harvest: A Collection of Semen-based recipes

[Anonymous No.11756541]

He sole of my boot

[Anonymous No.11756564]

The sole of my boot

[Anonymous No.11756695]

>>11756481
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill#Writing

[Anonymous No.11756761]

>>11756481
Proudhon
Kroptokin
Noam Chomsky
Ward Churchill
Andrea Dworkin
Hakim Bey
Bob Black
John Zerzan
Lawrence Jarach
Jason McQuinn

[Anonymous No.11756817]

>>11756481
when i was an anarchist i read fredy perlman, emma goldman, john zerzan, bob black, a few different crimethinc or primitivist publications mostly. don't recommend it. i don't recommend being a leftist at all.

[Anonymous No.11756835]

>>11756761
>>11756817
These and Bakunin, Malatesta, Bookchin.
Stirner,Neetch and Nechayev for the more chaotic/insurgent ones

[Anonymous No.11756842]

>>11756817
What's your critique of leftist both in general and specifically anarchism. What are you now?

[Anonymous No.11756915]

>>11756842
Primarily that they are de facto foot soldiers for the very thing they believe they claim to oppose. They are nothing but an ultimately ameliorative and recuperative pathway for capitalism. A country begrudgingly enters a campaign of austerity and anarchists light trash can fires in the street because the government isn't making capitalism more tolerable. When I got interested and involved the big deal was opposing globalization to preserve cultures, the environment, workers rights and now by some strange turn the left finds itself mostly not he exact opposite side of that issue, aiding the neoliberal agenda of mixing up all peoples so that they can become a completely liquid commodity, a movable scab force to push down wages and who are estranged from their environment and so have much, much less incentive to fight for it. When every one has only lived where they are living for <5 years who gives a shit what used to be forest and what rivers you used to be able to eat the fish out of? The radical left are the cutting blade for the total entrenchment of market logic into every facet of human behavior.

As well I am old enough to have seen the slow then very swift pivot from wanting to change the way humans relate to each other in a complete way, to crying about micro slights at the personal level, the type of problems capitalism is an excellent remedy for.

I abandoned the left because it wasn't anti-capitalist enough, not on any actual fundamental level. All of their gripes can be easily remedied with a few social welfare policies and some charitable posters at bus stops. I find it revolting.

Now I am some sort of anti-egalitarian environmental extremist, I guess. Rather reactionary, in the old sense of the term. The reactionary critique of capitalism is more honest and full, I believe: that it is base, small, cowardly, anti-life, anti-greatness and anti-strength. Capitalism can be made 'more fair,' it cannot be made beautiful or noble. Sorry for the blog post.

[Anonymous No.11756940]

Naomi Klein and Antonio Negri

[Anonymous No.11756963]

>>11756915
What country are you in?
Are you saying youre close to Kaczynski's views?

[Anonymous No.11756966]

>>11756915
Pretty much the same. But I think Zerzan, Perlman, and Camatte are still worthwhile reads.
Read Armed Joy and then the Crimethinc stuff if you want to know a bit about the shift from anarchism to liberalism. And also this:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/some-roveretan-anarchists-notes-on-summits-and-counter-summits.html
Everyone should also read The Poverty of Feminism, still the best critique there is, way ahead of its time:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/dominique-karamazov-the-poverty-of-feminism

[Anonymous No.11756976]

>>11756940
https://en.anarchistlibraries.net/library/crisso-and-odoteo-barbarians-the-disordered-insurgence

[Anonymous No.11756983]

>>11756915
You sound like a meme but at the very least you seem to have broken free of the artificial "left"/"right" dichotomy after your experience.

[Anonymous No.11756984]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_of_Everyday_Life

[Anonymous No.11757003]

>>11756963
>close to Kaczynski's views?
Not really. Though I enjoy reading him and recently have read Anti-Tech Revolution. I am not optimistic enough to believe in any sort of inevitable collapse or what have you or that it would be desirable to bring such about. I'm not anti-tech but I am tech critical as some one who believes in a more materialist understanding of how societies evolve. IE that the manner a society provides for itself is going to tend to bring about this or that manner of organizing itself, and these or those values. I do agree with him mostly on leftists. I'm not a primitivist. I'm closer to Nietzsche generally, I'd reckon, and my veneration of nature/life stems from that.
>>11756966
I should have mentioned Bonanno in my first post. The anarchist tension I think is a pleasurable read for any one.

[Anonymous No.11757023]

>>11756983
>has the ultimate meme books
>accuses others of being a meme

[Anonymous No.11757028]

>>11757023
It literally takes one to know one, droogie.

[Anonymous No.11757037]

>>11756835
Forgot Novatore - Toward the Creative Nothing

[Anonymous No.11757472]

>>11756481
They don't.

[Anonymous No.11757608]

>>11756481
In addition to the already mentioned anarchist classics:
>Abdullah Ocalan (Kurdish Bookchinite)
>Probably some Marx for the economics (but never Lenin)
>Rudolf Rocker on anarchosyndicalism
>Sorel, "On Violence" and other syndicalist works
>Victor Serge, Russian anarchist
>Viktor Makhno, Ukrainian anarchist in the 1917+ revolution
>More rarely, Trotsky's "Fascism: What It Is And How To Fight It"
>Debord's Society of the Spectacle and other Situationist works

>>11756915
>The radical left are the cutting blade for the total entrenchment of market logic into every facet of human behavior.
I agree with this; how do you propose fighting it, if not in a 'radical' left (as in: a left which analyses capitalism as the radix, the root, of the problem) manner? I'm a libertarian socialist member of a far-left socialist party that used to be Trots but have moved away from that into a more mass-based, multi-tendency approach which suits me better. I feel all the exasperations you feel, but how can we fight capitalism without doing all the 'left' stuff, like mass social movements, work in the trade unions (as the biggest, oldest mass movement around), and so on? "Sit and bitch on the internet" is a worse option than black bloc stuff, basically just another kind of lifestylism. I am genuinely interested, not concern trolling, because I have many of the same problems and they grind at my soul too.

[Anonymous No.11757625]

[Anonymous No.11757628]

>>11756481
The Coming Insurrection

[Anonymous No.11757637]

>>11757625
>>11757628
Oh didnt see your post

[Anonymous No.11757647]

>>11757637
It's alright my dude, here is a funny video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyi2qNskJc

[Anonymous No.11757712]

>>11756966
>https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/dominique-karamazov-the-poverty-of-feminism

I just read through this, including the reactions it got on libcom, and why was this posted? Seems completely trivial

[Anonymous No.11757719]

>>11757647
Its been so long since I last saw this. Feels weird to see this and think how the left has changed

[Anonymous No.11757730]

>>11756761
>Proudhon
Nope too sexist.

>>11756835
>Bakunin
Nope too racist.

>Stirner,Neetch
WTF no.

[Anonymous No.11757735]

>>11757730
Do you feel good that your personal attitude undermines your cause?

[Anonymous No.11757753]

>>11756915
>When I got interested and involved the big deal was opposing globalization to preserve cultures, the environment, workers rights
The funniest thing is that this is literally the nazi position.

[Anonymous No.11757782]

>>11757719
Has it, though? American pro-capitalism-as-long-as-it-has-black-trans-women SJW liberalism isn't leftism, as much as they'd like to think it is.

[Anonymous No.11757807]

>>11757782
you don't need to be anticapitalist to be leftist
socialists do not have monopoly on a term that both predates them and was originally used for pro-capitalist liberals

literally 99.99% of the world would agree that american liberals and european social democrats are leftists

when socialists claim they're not leftists those socialists sound as cringy as anarchocapitalists do when they try to argue that you can't support the existence of the state and be a rightist

[Anonymous No.11757829]

>>11756915
>aiding the neoliberal agenda of mixing up all peoples so that they can become a completely liquid commodity,
Like when? If anything neoliberals dragged leftists kicking and screaming into the 2000s. You seemed to be whining about the impotence of the Left to do anything then the failure of its ideology

[Anonymous No.11757834]

>>11757807
>literally 99.99% of the world would agree that american liberals and european social democrats are leftists
Not even liberals associate themselves with leftists anymore. Look how is shitting on Corbyn 24/7

[Anonymous No.11757842]

>>11757807
Yeah, fair enough, I will buy that. However, let's be fair - if you get nostalgic about 'how the left has changed' and you're talking about the fucking Invisible Committee/Tarnac Ten, you're clearly talking about the anticapitalist far-left. You can't start a conversation about them and then say 'nah anyone to the left of Glenn Beck is a leftist because history'.

Personally if I was in charge of it, I would precisely draw the 'left' line today between social-democrats on the left and liberal-democrats on the right, because social-democrats can at least theoretically acknowledge the existence of capital as a force, and then set about blunting its blows (if this is real resistance to capitalism or just lube for the ongoing rape is another conversation). Liberal-democrats have a kind of philosophical blindspot which prevents them from admitting the existence of class struggle in polite company.

Social-Democrats:
> UK/Aus/NZ Labo[u]r
> German SPD, etc.
> Most but not all Green parties
> The Morning Star newspaper

Liberal-Democrats
> US Democrats
> UK LibDems, Australian Democrats (now a bit dead)
> En Marche
> Spanish Ciudadanos
> The Guardian newspaper

[Anonymous No.11757847]

>>11757834
liberals don't associate themselves with socialists
liberals don't not consider themselves leftists

[Anonymous No.11757853]

>>11757608
>how do you propose fighting it
Working in the trade unions is something I support. Honestly the further back you go the better the left gets. I would propose the following few ideas:
>Create sustained programs of mutual aid.
While the Greek anarchists were tipping cars because the government couldn't get their shit in order during the austerity years, people like the Golden Dawn of all people were quietly feeding old people and gaining ground because of it. They managed to use a rather leftist tactic to position themselves as a viable alternative to the back and fro of Greek politics and radicals. Throwing tantrums for government handouts only justifies the state and entrenches the system as it stands.
>Realize that the more diverse a group is, the harder it is to forge a common consciousness.
It is perhaps a sad fact but we need more than ideas that bond us. The Black Panthers did well because they had a clear message with resonated with a specific group of people who share a common history and skin color. Don't be afraid of this. It can be a potent tool. It is no coincidence that the places where something akin to anarchism has occurred have been places where there is a strong ethnic and cultural undercurrent to struggle (Catalonia, Chiapas, Rojava). This is something leftists never want to talk about but it is true. Diversity is NOT strength. If you want to have the kinds of trust and solidarity necessary for grand projects, this is an important thing to keep in mind.
>People who care about homo/transphobia and people who know how to use a wrench, a hammer (not to mention a sickle) is a venn diagram that has almost no overlap.
Stop pushing for the destruction of cultural markers and mores. You know who does this? Giant capitalist organizations who want to completely atomize humanity so that it is just a teaming mass of alienated, liquid workers with no values other than market values. If you find yourself on the same side as Google on any issue, think about that.
"Social justice" (what an empty turn of phrase!) has not only lowered the scope of the left, it has painted it into a corner and the only way forward on that path for them is to operate in common cause with the majority of capitalist organizations. I'm a roughneck guy who works on machines in a factory. If you came to my job talking about that bullshit guys would laugh you to the gate, and rightly so.

Sorry if this isn't typed real well, I gotta go to work.

[Anonymous No.11757862]

>>11757853
Here in Italy that's exactly what the Lega has done, stealing all the blue collar votes from the social-dem PD. Most appropriate, Salvini used to be a young marxist (at least in name).

[Anonymous No.11757863]

>>11757853
Fucking solid, mate. Good post, highly appreciated. I think we're in agreement on a lot of points. I am lucky that my party still has relatively strong union ties, which grounds a movement like nothing else because you don't lose sight of the rough blokes and get obsessed over LGBT circlejerking. It's gotta be grassroots bottom-up consciousness and mutual aid, because middleclass liberal theory doesn't cut it in the face of people's actual problems.

[Anonymous No.11757870]

>>11757842
>>11757847
Liberals are starting to call themselves centrist in France. The idea that liberalism is leftism is quickly dying, and more and more people are accepting that the so called centrism is juste another word for right wing. The least radical leftist party in the country right now is socialist reformist and is advocating for direct democracy and mass nationalization, and the neoliberals conservatives of old are being pushed to the reactionnary side of things as a result of "progressives" liberals occupying their spot.

I think it's fair to say that neoliberalism isn't left wing, a least in the political context of my country.

[Anonymous No.11757888]

>>11757853
good post

made me think

[Anonymous No.11757895]

>>11757870
Liberalism IS centrism. It's status-quoism by definition, has been since the Paris Commune. Liberalism means 'keep everything working exactly as it works now so we can keep drawing our rents and dividends and making profits and nothing is the matter and everything is beautiful'. Liberal social theory is extremely bad at dealing with the idea of conflicting interests (boss/worker, local/migrant, etc.), except in the flat space of market competition. This is why liberal feminists have tried to make 'feminism' about being a #GirlBoss or #LeanIn, as if the alternative to unjustified hierarchies* is gender-balanced (or race balanced etc.) unjustified hierarchies. To the extent that a liberal administration performs any action, even one which notionally curbs capitalism (Roosevelt's trust-busting in the 20th C, Obamacare, Trump's tariffs) they are only doing so in order to attempt to forestall a bigger conflict arising from capitalism hitting the skids. Their aim is to keep things the way they are, not to change the structure of society (like commies) or to revert to some 'previous' structure, historical or idealised/imagined (like reactionaries of all stripes).

This is why Marxists are in favour of armed workers, but American liberals are anti-gun - because the idea of conflict scares them, they just want to tarpaper over all the holes in society so they can keep drawing their dividends and/or making their professional wages. This is why Liberals are so strongly against Brexit, because it will hurt their pocketbooks. This analysis extends to just about every shit thing liberals do - they were once at the forefront of history (French Revolution and after) but, once entrenched as a ruling class, are absolutely holding on by their teeth and fingernails lest anything should get between them and their class interest.

Even the apparent internal conflicts are only a vicious backbiting game of different liberal factions trying to work out how to best preserve class interests. There's a lot of push to renewable energy on the basis of (a) economic sustainability (can't make money if Earth's dead) and (b) profit, as in, "can I make more money off windmills than coal mines if I invest today?". This has fuck all to do with a real sustainable ecology, but it looks nice and cuddly on the outside and lets the "good" liberals attack their "bad" class-allies for being slow to adopt Green capitalism.


>* I'm not a full-on anarchist, I think hierarchies are necessary at least for basic command-and-control, but a justified and temporary hierarchy of acknowledged skill or democratic election is a long way from "because I'm the boss' son lol".

[Anonymous No.11758324]

>>11756915
based ecofascist poster

[Anonymous No.11758966]

>>11757807
They're centrists.
SJWs have more in common with liberals and CIA ops than any traditional anarchist or communist theories.

[Anonymous No.11759159]

>>11757753
Now it is, yeah

[Anonymous No.11759171]

Nice thread. So then, what are some hardcore leftist, anticapitalist, pro environmental authors/books?

[Anonymous No.11759174]

Defintely not marx

[Anonymous No.11760219]

>>11756564
Based

[Anonymous No.11760316]

>>11756492
Lmao. So underrated...

[Anonymous No.11760321]

>>11756940
Nice ones!

[Anonymous No.11760458]

>>11759171
Already been posted bruv. Bookchin, Zerzan, Ted K, Bob Black, Perlman. Consider also Feral Faun and Wolfi Landstreicher while I am naming names. Old (90s-early 00s) crimethinc (available at crimethinc.com/library) has a few too.

Honestly, Green Anarchism is a great idea, you need to incorporate the idea of a sustainable social ecology into any theory of how to build a new world. Contrariwise, full-blown primitivism of the Bob Black or Ted K variety is ridiculous 'ultra' idealism for circlejerkers, scenesters, and lifestylists.

[Anonymous No.11760640]

>>11759171
Hardcore would be the early insurrectionists, illegalists, and nihilists. Armed Joy was already mentioned, and for the most part they do not have other writings. It was called 'propaganda of the deed' for a reason.
Bookchin gives a good history of the FAI in "The Spanish Anarchists: The Heroic Years".
And real hardcore would be someone like Ravachol, a graverobber.
"The Right to be Greedy" is another one, by the American Situationists.
Also keep in mind that these writings were often illegal, and would still be effectively illegal.

[Anonymous No.11761049]

>>11758324
Thanks, man. Though fascism does raise my hackles a bit, it feels so.. common, in the pejorative sense of the word.

>>11757862
The group Casapound, who I admire, has done similarly. Originally they were organizing around housing issues and they cite many people from left and right as inspiration though most people consider them right-wing/hyper-nationalist. Now I understand they have speaking tours and gyms and lending libraries and all sorts of stuff. In the end I think the left took a bad bargain in the way it moved and cut its own feet off in a lot of cases and groups like Casapound filled a necessary niche abandoned by the left.

>>11757753
There is a reason for that, stated above. The anti-globalization movement is now right wing. No one on the left talks about globalization, corporate-cultural homogeneity etc anymore hardly. These are now 'nazi' issues.

[Anonymous No.11761265]

>>11761049
>No one on the left talks about globalization, corporate-cultural homogeneity etc anymore hardly.
Mostly because everything that can be said has already said. If anything the right wing talking point on this topic borrows a lot of elements of the left

[Anonymous No.11761309]

>>11761265
>If anything the right wing talking point on this topic borrows a lot of elements of the left
That is exactly what I was implying.
>>11761265
>everything that can be said has already said.
"why attack capitalism we already talked about that." Okay.

[Anonymous No.11761320]

>>11761049
Part of the problem had to do with the big 60s+ era access to education and social mobility. Traditionally (this in Anglosphere, can't talk for yanks) the best ("organic intellectuals") of the working class were barred from professions and management but could end up in the trade union leadership, maybe get a union scholarship to go to uni if they were identified as a good prospect.

As social mobility and mass university opened up and the neoliberal 'fuck you got mine' attitude intensified, a lot of the people who would otherwise have been left leaders in collective struggles just ended up taking their brains, talent and energy and becoming petit-bourgeois doctors, journalists, professors, bureaucrats, technicians. At the same time, this gave the petit-bourgeoisie (which, let's not kid ourselves, always had a big foothold in the Labo[u]r parties and unions anyway) a new class-ally within traditionally pro-worker movements. This bourgeoisified the whole thing and eroded the movement-organising left. Now the movement left is split between the political hack class - from junior union organisers climbing the greasy pole to entrenched politicians scrabbling to keep their pole position - and the dedicated hardcore, who are usually far leftists and subsequently can't get a look-in to mainstream Labo[u]r politics. The last remaining examples of the solid left pro-worker, movement-organiser fringe in a mainstream Labo[u]r party are Dennis Skinner "The Beast of Bolsover" in the UK, and Australia's Senator Doug Cameron. I'm an Aussie, but I couldn't touch the Labor party with a big stick because they've become so hollowed-out and eroded. I don't want to stay in a far-left party, I want the centre left to re-embrace a grassroots position of fighting from the bottom up, but it's just so far gone in Australia that I can't imagine it. And the Greens are mostly middleclass wankers and Tree Tories under Di Natale. I want to be part of a strong left force in a mainstream left party, using the connection with real popular movements and real people problems to drive change.

Corbyn's recent string of wins is a good sign in the UK, and shows that the UK Labour party isn't as totally divorced from their movement base. Still, it will take a lot to fix Blair's decade of wrecking and subsequent backbiting and constant nagging.

(I say organiser and movement a lot to distinguish from the 'activist' world, which I am kind of part of anyway. I hate 'activism' as a subculture, and I hate everyone campaigning on their own little issues at right-on rallies with 50 attendees. Yes, I know, West Papua, yes, I know, East Timor, yes, I know, save the gay whales, but you won't achieve anything if you're treating it like a prayer circle)

[Anonymous No.11761552]

>>11756481
nothing, these people just want to fuck shit up and make the rest of us look bad.

[Anonymous No.11761558]

>>11756564
Absolutely based

[Anonymous No.11761697]

[Anonymous No.11762002]

>>11761309
>"why attack capitalism we already talked about that
Because at this point of time people would or have already tune out the central message. And at the irreversible stage of globalisation it is like crying over spilt milk. We already had a thread with people dismissing Naomi’s book for being too derivative over the central theme. The Left’s criticism of globalization didn’t stop it then, you think repeating itself will stop it now?

[Anonymous No.11762041]

>>11762002
>And at the irreversible stage of globalisation it is like crying over spilt milk
The only irreversible phenomenon is time.
Literally all the rest is a matter of political will.

[Anonymous No.11762278]

>>11759171
Read Linkola

[Anonymous No.11762285]

>>11761552
Look bad to who?

[Anonymous No.11763189]

>>11756915
I'm you, except for the nature stuff, basically someone who was leaning left and then read Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.11763224]

>>11761552
I think you forgot to appeal to a specific identity for your respectability politics plea

[Anonymous No.11763589]

>>11762041
>thinking you can reverse globalisation
And people say leftists are idealists...

[Anonymous No.11763663]

>>11756915
I mean, you are still essentially a leftist, regardless of your snowflakeism. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you and have distance myself from anarchism and the left as well, I recognize that I am still an anarachy enthusiast and most geniune comrades I can find are on the left. I guess you have "ecofascists" on the right but they might as well be welfare capitlists, they are distant from geniune ecological thinking. I dont like all the individualism which atomizes the community in it's broadest ecological sense. Im certainly not anti egalitarian, I just don't think individual equality and liberty should be put over the community, which by all means is a product of individual relationships.
I think any means necessary is a good way to look at it, burning down subdevolpments and spray painting urban sprawl clearly won't work alone, the state needs to be utilized if we are actually going to destroy the legal foundations of capitalism. There are plenty of people like us on the left, no reason to disenfranchise yourself, we need people like you on the left

[Anonymous No.11763881]

>>11763663
>you are still essentially a leftist
Yeah, I guess so except I regard equality, justice and freedom as false gods and I do not desire democracy or communism of any stripe and all of the contemporary groups I admire are considered hyper-nationalist. Despite all of this I guess because I think workers should be treated with dignity and that wild places are sacred I am a leftist.

Floating signifiers be like that.

>"ecofascists"... are distant from geniune ecological thinking.
I have yet to find any group extant which calls itself ecofascist (except maybe green line front, but information thereof is scarce) however I find that appreciation on the right of nature is far more honest than on the left. Nature is rife with brutality, suffering, violence, inequality of ability. To forego celebrating any of it is anti-life.

[Anonymous No.11763972]

Game of Thrones reviews.

[Anonymous No.11763991]

>>11763881
>Nature is rife with brutality, suffering, violence, inequality of ability
This is all anthpocentric projection if you ask me, the exlusion, predation, ect of one life is only done by affection, or lack thereof of that life or another. Ecological interaction definitely happens on a level playing field, evolution happens as a result of affection, natural selection, is an essential but secondary process to affection. This is a backwards and infantile understanding of life you have. The tallest trees in don't dictate how the forest grows under them, that descion is up to the saplings. You're understanding of life as I see it is little more than a half assed synthesis of Darwin and Hobbes. I can't think of many things more contrary to actual ecological relation than a spook like a nation-state.

[Anonymous No.11764075]

>>11763991
what is the difference between the power struggles in an ecosystem and those in human societies? Seems like the same thing to me

[Anonymous No.11764109]

>>11763991
>nation-state
The nation-state is an enlightenment construction and nationalism is a symptom of a failure.

>he exlusion, predation, ect of one life is only done by affection, or lack thereof of that life or another
?

I do not discount the role that affinity, caring, tenderness play in the ecology and evolution of the higher animals. I am not saying that nature is totally red in tooth and claw nor advocating some sort of shallow social darwinism. I am saying that all of it is part and parcel of nature, the brutality and the fury and the love and that all of it is apt to be celebrated to deny any of it is to deny the whole. The wolf gives the deer his fleetness and the tenderness of the doe rears the faun. All of it is necessary.

[Anonymous No.11764869]

>>11756492
First post, best post.

[Anonymous No.11766163]

Bump

[Anonymous No.11767300]

>>11766163
Different anon, another bump. Can we have a good discussion about ecology, anarchism, fascism, and black bloc? Nah better let the thread die, we've got Jordan Peterson, books women will never understand, and quick rundowns of Deleuze.