/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11716932]

I’ve read about Anarcho-primitivists, those who would like to go back to a hunter-gatherer society, devoid of any technology or modern civilization. I have also read about transhumanists, those who want to go even further with this human enterprise. However, are there any authors who advocate for a very specific period and mode of being, arguing that that times culture, economy and technological development was as close to perfect as possible? For example, Edwardian England, or Medieval France as the pinnacle of the human experience?

[Anonymous No.11716936]

>>11716932
There is probably some Amish person who wrote it on a sheep's skin or some shit.

[Anonymous No.11716942]

We have evolved too far on an epigenetic level to be able to fall back to such a societal state. Even if we attained the state of Anarcho-primitivism, people would merge their groups and create big communities to fend raiders.

[Anonymous No.11716944]

>>11716942
what does that have to do with epigenetics?

[Anonymous No.11716948]

>>11716936
Yeah prob.

fictional example: Ceasar's Legion in FNV.

[Anonymous No.11716957]

>>11716944
A lot actually. The habit of a civilized society is written into our biological code.

[Anonymous No.11716965]

>>11716957
And you feel that that code has changed in its expression over time?

[Anonymous No.11716973]

>>11716942
>>11716944
Obviously being in groups is our nature. But big groups don't even function as communities properly, they require a broad and shallow mythos to keep together. The rest of our genus, and even our family, remain in bands of 60-80 wherein they socialise with all members and have complex relations, coalitions, and politics. Present-day nation-states are obviously extremely shallow and unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.11716981]

>>11716942
>Even if we attained the state of Anarcho-primitivism, people would merge their groups and create big communities to fend raiders.
Ok, anon, I don't mean to prejudge in any way the ideas of anarcho-primitivist theorists, having never read their literature in any capacity myself, but I *ASSUME* they've thought about that one..

[Anonymous No.11716986]

>>11716965
Individual habits are slowly imprinting their shadow into our code, and if you'd take a look at humans who are transcending the postmodern society, you'll find that the combination of evolutionism and excessive egotism wouldn't allow us to return to a more primitive society.
>>11716973
Even bands of 60-80 require myths. I do agree that nation states seem to be unhealthy to cultural progress, but returning to primitive bands wouldn't do the trick either. City states make much more sense.

[Anonymous No.11717011]

>>11716986
1. What do you consider "transcending", and "postmodern"
2. How can you be sure that we are undergoing a genetic shift, and not just extraordinary shifts in cultural mindset? Or does one feed into the other?
3. What is to stop one city state from sacking another? How well could the human race function without a monopoly on violence?

[Anonymous No.11717018]

>>11716957
except you just made that up

[Anonymous No.11717050]

>>11717011
>What do you consider "transcending", and "postmodern"
Look the definitions up.
>How can you be sure that we are undergoing a genetic shift
*Epigenetic. Compare us to Abbos to get a picture of what I'm speaking of.
>What is to stop one city state from sacking another?
Nothing. But you can't make city states an impossibility without significantly harming the environment. Going beyond the formation of city states and loose alliances is what brings us creatures such as hated nation-states.
>>11717018
Prove me wrong. Modern humans are typically inclined towards civilized behavior. It certainly isn't moral behavior, it makes the proliferation of primitive societies absolutely impossible because of the inevitable emergence of hierarchies.

[Anonymous No.11717068]

>>11717011
>What do you consider "transcending", and "postmodern"
Look the definitions up.
>How can you be sure that we are undergoing a genetic shift
*Epigenetic. Compare us to Abbos to get a picture of what I'm speaking of.
>What is to stop one city state from sacking another?
Nothing. But you can't make city states an impossibility without significantly harming the environment. Going beyond the formation of city states and loose alliances is what brings us creatures such as hated nation-states.
>>11717018
Prove me wrong. Modern humans are typically inclined towards civilized behavior. It certainly isn't moral behavior, it makes the proliferation of primitive societies absolutely impossible because of the inevitable emergence of hierarchies.

[Anonymous No.11717102]

>>11716942

Geneticist here. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for this.

[Anonymous No.11717106]

>>11717102
What do you consider as evidence? Is there enough evidence for us to think we wouldn't just rebuild civilization?

[Anonymous No.11717113]

>>11717102
>Scientist here. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for gravity.

[Anonymous No.11717135]

Male prostitute here. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever >>11717102 isn't a faggot.

[Anonymous No.11717139]

>>11716957
Yeah you gotta source this one buddy

[Anonymous No.11717144]

>>11716932
a return to any kind of ideal(ised) historical state is impossible. there are no brakes or steering on this runaway train of an earth.

embrace posthumanism (as a synthesis of transhumanism and anarchoprimitivism). it's pretty chill.

[Anonymous No.11717145]

>>11717050
>Modern humans are typically inclined towards civilized behavior

[Anonymous No.11717151]

>>11717018
Post neolithics modern humans have genetic adaptations to digest grain. Some have developed, even later, adaptations to digest milk as adults or withstand alcohol.

[Anonymous No.11717155]

Ancient Greek “Arcadia” is what you’re thinking of buddy

[Anonymous No.11717160]

>>11717011
>2. How can you be sure that we are undergoing a genetic shift, and not just extraordinary shifts in cultural mindset? Or does one feed into the other?

Those cultural shifts have direct consequences on who reproduces and who doesn't and the number of children those who do have. So yeah one feeds into the other.

[Anonymous No.11717175]

I disagree with the epigenetic thing. Those who have become unable to revert to a more primitive state of society aren't having children anyway while comparatively more primitivism-compatible groups like the Amish or rural Africa have sky-high fertility rates.

[Anonymous No.11717187]

>>11717175
>ENTIRE EARTH SHOULD BE AFRICA REEEEEE

[Anonymous No.11717260]

>>11716932
Reinassance Italy was the pinnacle of human experience, you fucking Anglotard.

[Anonymous No.11717388]

>>11717260
Maybe for the feudal lords and rich merchants. Normal-ass dudes just drudged by, only to die drafted into some stupid monarchic war.

[Anonymous No.11717445]

>>11717388
Not different from "Edwardian England and Medieval France".

[Anonymous No.11718497]

Bump

[Anonymous No.11718509]

>>11717388
>>11717445
Literacy, health and average income was also a lot higher in Italian city states than in France or England at the time.

[Anonymous No.11718514]

>>11716942
Can you at least cite some kind of source on what you're saying about epigenetics? It affects humans and a lot of research is done about it, but behavior-wise I've never even seen anyone make that claim.

[Anonymous No.11718715]

>>11716932
'Anti-industrial anarchists' is the better, or at least more precise, term. There is a general consensus within the civilisation debate that industrialism is the worst offender, and even though primitivism may include a critique of symbolic thought it's not really a meme (there is some value to such a critique). And obviously the authors do not intend this in the sense of equivalence, that symbolic thought is somehow worse than industrialism.
Then again, some do. Just as others see the neolithic revolution as the most destructive. Perlman, on the other hand, sees civilisation as something of a catastrophe, an accident which creates a distortion within the natural order and then unfolds as an unnatural and militaristic hierarchy.
Bolo Bolo would be one utopian book, although hard to find. Deep ecology can also be seen as the general principles or values which tie such diverse groups together. There are others scattered across small pamphlets and the writings of various anarchist writers. I am having a hard time thinking of anything specific, and I think this comes down to the lingering leftist tendencies of primitivism/anarchism. As opposed as they may be to marxism they remain within its framework of critique, namely within materialist negationism.
But, of course, the primitivists have entire libraries of anthropology to prove what works, not to mention our continued experience when we go into the woods. Survivalism and Bushcraft can be seen as part of this organising structure, even if not written specifically by these ideological groups they are connected by some feeling of necessity and suggest the possibility of another way of living.

[Anonymous No.11718738]

>>11716981
assumptions, assumptions

[Anonymous No.11718858]

Carl Schmitt thought the 1600's post Thirty Years War was peak. Richard Weaver saw the pre scholastic Middle Ages as peak. You might be interested in The Question Concerning Technology, by Martin Heidegger

Conservative /lit/ discord if that's your thing
https://discord.gg/c5Vga4E

[Anonymous No.11718865]

>>11718858
Also, Paul Gottfried sees the Gilded Age as peak

[Anonymous No.11719044]

>>11717011
>>11717050
>what can save the city-state?
The Achaean League, of course.
It's like you didn't even start with the Greeks!
Of course that's how we end up with Rome or the USA. So... the idea still needs work.