Why do so many young Muslim women love The Hobbit? I'm looking at the Goodread reviews and it's packed to the gills with Muslim cuties.

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Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:19:25 2018 No.11716004 [Reply] [Original]

Why do so many young Muslim women love The Hobbit? I'm looking at the Goodread reviews and it's packed to the gills with Muslim cuties.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:21:48 2018 No.11716015 The funny thing is Tolkien was a known Islamaphobe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:22:05 2018 No.11716016 They're both quintessentially British.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:27:24 2018 No.11716040

because it's a good book, and people enjoy reading good books. most people don't go "hmm i belong to group X therefore i am not supposed to find this enjoyable, let me just ignore the obvious feelings of pleasure it is spontaneously inducing in me and pretend that i don't like it due to group affiliation".

t. a muslim who like tolkien

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:28:36 2018 No.11716044 Need to start carrying a copy with me whenever I pass the local mosque

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:31:53 2018 No.11716057 >>11716040 anon serious question do all muslims want sharia law

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:32:48 2018 No.11716062 >>11716057 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:33:05 2018 No.11716063 >>11716015 Pretty much everyone was, if they had an opinion on it at all. Except for weirdos like Guenon

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:35:39 2018 No.11716073 File: 66 KB, 720x960, DVrqQVVXcAArV7-.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is it true that Tolkien based his Elves on the Persians?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:39:57 2018 No.11716096 >>11716073 I don't remember reading how the elves stoned elvessess to death

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:41:09 2018 No.11716100 >>11716057 most muslims hardly follow the religion so no, it would be their worst nightmare lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:41:56 2018 No.11716102 >>11716073 me on the left

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:42:54 2018 No.11716109 File: 49 KB, 800x450, DATASS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11716073

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 00:54:54 2018 No.11716152 >>11716100 are you the muslim anon? do you want sharia?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:09:18 2018 No.11716206 >>11716004 You see a Muslim. I see an astronaut, a powerlifter, a scuba diver...

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:18:52 2018 No.11716237

>>11716152
yes im the muslim anon. depends what you mean by "want sharia". sharia does not mean stoning people. it basically means less taxes and government interference, no usury, pray five times a day, and fast during ramadan. so yeah, it would be nice, but im not a political activist or whatever

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:21:15 2018 No.11716244 >>11716237 what happens if i dont follow it anon, would you have me killed? im all for less government interference and less taxes aswell but i dont want to have to pray five times a day

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:24:50 2018 No.11716256
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>>11716015
I hate the "phobe" suffix. Saying Tolkein was an Islamaphobe implies he was irrationally scared of Islam, when it is perfectly rationale to not like any religion based around controlling the people who follow it, or that is based in so much hate

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:25:52 2018 No.11716257 >>11716256 I don't like it either, but that's the only concise term we have to describe someone opposed to islam.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:26:39 2018 No.11716263 >>11716257 That's true mate. We lost the linguistic war on 'phobe'

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:27:31 2018 No.11716266 >>11716237 Do you think islam will ever be able co-exist with the west without us needing to genocide your faithful?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:27:43 2018 No.11716269 >>11716256 >I hate the "phobe" suffix. Saying Tolkein was an Islamaphobe implies he was irrationally scared of Islam You started off so coherent. LOL

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:29:47 2018 No.11716274

>>11716244
Praying five times a day is a personal obligation. Sharia does not mean civil law, although it includes a few civil ordinaces like taxes (very low compared to modern rate). Even if you're Muslim a sharia compliant state can't force you to pray five times a day, and if you're a nonmuslim it's not an issue. You can check out some Jonathan AC Brown lectures on YouTube if you want to know more, I can't cover everything, it's a big subject

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:31:44 2018 No.11716280 >>11716266 You want to genocide a whole group of people and you think they're the problem?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:32:03 2018 No.11716284 >>11716274 anon ty for answering questions one last one if u will how are my chances with fucking muslims girls if im a white non muslim middle eastern girls are hot

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:33:55 2018 No.11716290 >>11716269 My last girlfriend said the same thing at the end :'(

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:35:24 2018 No.11716296 >>11716257 >what is anti-

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:35:42 2018 No.11716297

>>11716284
I don't know, that depends on whether they are religious or not, or of they are religious but hypocritical (sleep around in secret), and if you're attractive/charming enough to bed them. Life is short, I wouldn't waste it away in fornication if I were you. That is beneath human dignity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:35:54 2018 No.11716298 >>11716280 Not me, the government might want to do it one day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:37:06 2018 No.11716307 >>11716296 Anti-islamist sounds clumsy.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:38:19 2018 No.11716309

>>11716073
more likely it was a vague idea in his head related to Nordics, what with their being blond and lithe and whatever

Tolkien didnt like allegory though, so he claims he didnt base anything in his books on anything in the real world, even though what he wrote was obviously influenced by it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:38:53 2018 No.11716313 >>11716297 did u convert or where you born into it

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:40:03 2018 No.11716317 >>11716313 my family is from morocco but they aren't religious, i chose to become religious due to my own studies

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:43:34 2018 No.11716329 >>11716317 why islam over christianity

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:44:42 2018 No.11716333 >>11716263 Phobe-war II when?!?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:46:00 2018 No.11716339 >>11716257 >the only concise term we have to describe someone opposed to islam How about just "non-muslim"?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:48:29 2018 No.11716349 >>11716339 That would just mean someone who isn't a muslim.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:49:19 2018 No.11716352

>>11716329
There's a number of reasons, but a major one is that Islam believes all peoples on earth received prophets and revelation and guidance from above throughout history, whereas Christianity believes only the Jews did until Jesus came to bring truth to the gentiles. I personally agree with the former. I also can't believe that human slavation depends on a historical event that happened in Roman Palestine. Salvation depends on our relationship with God, which is something unchanging and constant. No special historical events can affect it or change it, they only reaffirm it, which is precisley the role of a prophet, that is, to reaffirm eternal truths

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:49:37 2018 No.11716353
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>>11716004
How many here went to university and befriended a sweet, short muslim girl who wasn't really attractive but came from a more conservatively minded family and was refreshingly prudent and modest compared to the average justice-crazed negrified white girl who flaunted her genitalia about campus in yoga pants and yet considers herself quite down-to-earth and studious, career oriented and ready to have fun? Finally, one realized that if one was to wife a girl it would have to be this muslim sweetheart and that in reality she would have loved you quite earnestly and cooked for you and so forth. You would have even admired her for her genuine sociability and thrift, knowing that if you had wifed a white girl it would have inevitably ended in divorce and alimony payments. But alas it was all too strange and discordant; the thought of bringing home a muslim girl to your family, the thought of a wedding ceremony with your family and hers in the same vicinity... and suddenly one is no longer thinking about one's personal life but rather what a strange and obscure state one is living in.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:51:52 2018 No.11716359 >>11716349 Why wouldn't you be a Muslim if you weren't against the ideology?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:51:57 2018 No.11716360 File: 293 KB, 1024x1024, life_by_spiegellicht-d8jzu4n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11716353 Wounding post

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:53:48 2018 No.11716366

>>11716352
>Islam believes all peoples on earth received prophets and revelation and guidance from above throughout history
I didnt know Muslims believed this, is there any convenient thing you can think of that i could read about it, or is it more just something youd have to immerse yourself into the religion to understand?

Also Muslims say that Mohammed is the final prophet, but not divine, just a man.

What is the deal with how Mohammed is kind of violent while Jesus is purely good outside of the two instances of the fig tree and the money lenders? Is being bad in some ways(like he was a warlord) a necessary way to act, and Jesus's way was wrong?

would really appreciate any information about those questions, i know very little about the quran, i read a bit of it, but it didn't really strike me as something that aligned with how i think so i didnt continue

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:55:17 2018 No.11716370

>>11716353
>but rather what a strange and obscure state one is living in.
it has always been so. Our strangeness is larger on the great scales, because we are in a period of turmoil, and not of expansion.

But it is always strange and full of wrong, that is reality

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:57:16 2018 No.11716373 >>11716370 Thanks dad what other boomer platitudes do you have for us

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 01:59:58 2018 No.11716388

>>11716373
what i said is very true anon, our civilization might be collapsing, but we are mostly aware of what goes on around us, and that has always been somewhat strange since we left our tribes.

Technological civilization, which began with the first tools, and maybe even just with language, is a fundamentally alien thing to the animals we are, and we exist in flux between these two worlds, not understanding what is happening to us.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 02:02:57 2018 No.11716397

>>11716366
The belief that all peoples received prophets is stated explicitly in the Quran. Muhammad (pbuh) was not a "warlord". That's a total exagerration. He was in conflict with Mecca which kicked him and his followers out and stole their property, tortured and murdered his followers, and even then he constantly prayed for his enemies. You should read his biography (look up the one written by Martin Lings, it is easy, accessible and can be found online) if you want to learn more. You can also look up lectures by Jonathan AC Brown if you are interested in the topic of hadith and Sharia, Hamza Yusuf for general information on Islam, and Ali Ataie for videos comparing Islam and Christianity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 02:05:25 2018 No.11716399 >>11716397 I'm going to bed, I have work early tomorrow. If you have more questions I'll check the thread later hopefully and see if I can answer them.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 02:07:11 2018 No.11716404

>>11716397
Thank you for the recommendations anon

my question about Mohammed was purely that Jesus responds to attacks by 'turning the other cheek' which idea struck me as incredibly unique and beautiful among the ways of being a human, and is what attracted me to Christianity in the first place, though I am not Christian because i do not believe Jesus was divine, because of those two transgression agains the universal love he had to everything else, even allowing himself to be murdered, tortured.

I want to understand what Mohammed's basic thing was, because he struck me just as being a very charismatic and spiritually aligned man, a holy person, who was nonetheless wrong because he committed evils in his desire to eradicate other evils

it is the idea that peace can eradicate evil instead of harm against evil that made me like Christianity

i hope we understand each other and i am not attacking Islam, which i know very little about, only trying to understand the worldview

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 02:08:47 2018 No.11716407 >>11716399 alright anon, have a good night and thanks for your recs, if you don't see the thread that is fine

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 02:26:24 2018 No.11716452 >>11716397 He was a warlord and a pedophile.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 03:05:33 2018 No.11716549 >>11716452 based

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 03:29:46 2018 No.11716609 >>11716015 Obviously you oppose religions that are not your own, especially if they're from the same tree. Tolkien forced his wife to convert to Catholicism (she was Anglican).

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 03:35:04 2018 No.11716627 >tfw no muslim tolkien fangirl gf

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 03:36:44 2018 No.11716632 what other books does she like?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 03:59:35 2018 No.11716707 what a sweet wholesome girl

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 04:06:54 2018 No.11716723 >>11716004 even the secular muslim qts are infinitely more wifely than white staceys.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 04:17:12 2018 No.11716744 >>11716339 kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 04:23:41 2018 No.11716764 seems like the only options if you want a nice girl are to convert to islam or wait for realistic sexbots to hit the market.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 04:24:21 2018 No.11716768 >>11716359 did you fail logic class?

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 04:29:11 2018 No.11716785

>>11716353
I dated a non-religious qt Iranian girl for a couple years and it was great, but it was also weird because she had to put hijab on for pictures and social media because her parents back in Iran (and Iran's government more generally) and the whole thing was just a bit too weird to continue. I didn't want to eventually get involved long term with situation that might involve state actors considering my wife to be some apostate deserving of death or something.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 05:02:43 2018 No.11716880

>>11716256
t.Sam Harris
"Phobe" as in discriminating against muslims because some minority is blowing shit up in the other side of the world, I knew some muslim qts from Iran and Morocco in my uni, and they got constantly harassed by le based UKIP brigade back when Brexit was happening, Is think the word has a proper use.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 05:54:32 2018 No.11717003 Muslim girls are quite a lot like hobbits. Short, fat, feminine, unadventurous, shy, homely and extremely hairy feet. I'm amazed I hadn't connected this before.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:14:05 2018 No.11717041 >>11716339 >how about just "non-muslim"? fuck you're hopeless

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:18:12 2018 No.11717048 >>11716353 just marry her

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:21:54 2018 No.11717051 Even muslim thots can bend the otherwise deaf and irony stuffed ear of the 4chan autist as long as they claim to have a (botched) vagina.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:28:46 2018 No.11717059 >hate christianity >that just means you're enlightened >hate islam >REEEEEEEEEEEE YOU HATEFUL FUCKING BIGOT

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:28:48 2018 No.11717060 >>11716237 > Muslims are desert Republicans It all make sense now.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:33:01 2018 No.11717065

>>11716353
Conversely, I have met and fucked muslimas who were just as promiscuous (some more and in a more vulgar manner) as the "justice-crazed negrified white girl".

The "negrification" that you speak of is just as prevalent in muslim communities. And the resistance of the few muslimas who aren't corrupted by it is a product of authority and their reasoning simply consists of invoking the authority of their scriptures. At least some of the very few Western girls who aren't corrupted by "negrification" can come up with actual justifications for not engaging in such conduct.

Islam is the most anti-intellectual Abrahamic religion. Also the most aesthetically vile of them all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:36:58 2018 No.11717072 >>11716237 Do you condone the stoning of adulterers, and the dismemberment of thieves, provided ALL sharia conditions are met?

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:53:29 2018 No.11717096

>>11717059
>hating a part of your own culture that you have a deep understanding of and actually affects you or people you know in their daily life
>hating a part of a foreign culture that has almost nothing to do with you because the jewish media told you it was bad

one is understandable if not enlightened, the other is utterly cringe and bluepilled

>>>>>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 06:57:32 2018 No.11717109 >>11717065 He's talking about an actual Muslim. Not an American. Obviously Americans are all the same, you need'nt tell us.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:00:02 2018 No.11717112 >>11717096 >two unfounded assumptions that even if true, wouldn't logically delegitimise hating Islam

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:03:55 2018 No.11717125

>>11717109
I wasn't talking about Americans. I was talking about 2nd and 3rd generation UK Muslimas, Egyptian born, Saudi born and Bangladeshi born muslimas.

And I have a feeling he was talking about UK born muslims anyway, not that it matters. Your absolutely retarded 'not a real muslim' non-argument is not worth entertaining to begin with.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:05:08 2018 No.11717130 guessing it's one of the few books a young person might read for pleasure that isn't haram

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:08:28 2018 No.11717141 The Hobbit, LotR, etc. are written from a traditional (Abrahamic) religious perspective so I think it's understandable even if the religion isn't the same.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:15:22 2018 No.11717152

>>11717072
Not him but the answer is yes and no.

Adultery and theft are crimes against humanity. But the punishment foe these crimes is not clear cut. Firstly, the stoning to death of adulterers is not in the Qur'an but hadith. Secondly, the only instance where someone is stoned to death for adultery in the hadith is in the case of a woman suffering from guilt, who begs the prophet (pbuh) to be stoned to death. After sending her back and having her come back, the prophet follows protocol. Yet one major insight scholars have taken from this occasion is one that sets Islam to be directly opposed to catholicism: in Islam we do not confess to sins. We repent in secret and do not make our sins public admissions.

In regards to theft, remember, the son-in-law and fourth caliph of the prophet (pbuh) Imam Ali did not 'dismember' thieves during his rule because there was a major drought.

So what you think of shariah isn't very clear because shariah is very flexible.

When you say shariah to a practicing Muslim they might think of how many times is it appropriate to wash your mouth before prayer, not state laws. In shariah the moral and the legal are one, but in shariah how the legal shall be enforced (political organisation) is not at all clear and has many different examples only in the period of the first 4 or 5 caliphs.

Also, fuck Tolkien

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:19:47 2018 No.11717161 File: 134 KB, 959x1280, photo_2018-07-22_02-48-17.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11717152 God, you towelheads really are a scourge. You ruined the Middle-East and central Asia, and now you want to shit Europe up too.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:20:25 2018 No.11717163

>>11717152
>Yet one major insight scholars have taken from this occasion is one that sets Islam to be directly opposed to catholicism: in Islam we do not confess to sins. We repent in secret and do not make our sins public admissions.
This is one of the main reasons I'll always be a Protestant.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:23:46 2018 No.11717172
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>>11717161
Um ok buddy. If that's what you took from that post then have it your way and go eat some mushy peas while thinking about your glorious intellect and culture, aight senpai?

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:26:08 2018 No.11717180

>>11717172
You mistake where I'm from. But let me tell you, you're hated everywhere. Towelheads might be afraid of Americans and Europeans blowing up their countries, but what you should really be afraid is the backlash that's coming your way when the people you've oppressed for over a thousand years like the Azeris and the Persians wake up and genocide your ass.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:32:08 2018 No.11717194 >>11717180 You mistake where I'm from too, senpai >tfw half Turkmen half Farsi

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:34:16 2018 No.11717202

>>11717152
Right, I will accept your "yes and no" answer for the sake of the argument. In a hypothetical sharia state, how would one go about deriving unambiguous laws from your scriptures then?

I feel that your scriptures distinguish themselves from other Abrahamic traditions in several important ways. Firstly, not only do you consider them to be divine revelations and the word of god, but his actual verbatim speech. That gives fundamentalist interpretations a logical advantage (in my view), but even if you disagree with that, it certainly makes them more appealing whenever confusion arises.

Also, you have the naskh, the concept of abrogation which is the mechanism you use to deal with internal contradictions by which earlier revelations are superseded by later ones. Luck has it that the later ones are quantifiably more absolutist in their bloody murderous resolve. I don;t know whether abrogation is universally accepted, but even if it isn't who is to say what goes in a sharia state?

Then you have to deal with the fact that your scriptures are not only religious, but political and war documents and it isn;t clear how these identities interact - which is why when pressed, all muslims answer to "should adulterers be stoned if all sharia conditions are met" with "yes", or "yes and no" at best, but weasel out of the question if you don't qualify it within the context of sharia.

>Adultery and theft are crimes against humanity.
They might be, but that is the kind of unhinged slippery phrasing one should avoid in law making - not that I'd expect logical consistency from islamic jurisprudence... Also, there is an economy of scale in punishment. Having drivers who exceed the speed limit publicly hanged by their own intestines would surely see speed limit violations plummet, but the cost of such a society is greater than the benefits it reaps.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:34:33 2018 No.11717203 >>11716004 They're average English girls. That's why. English people like Tolkien, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:36:15 2018 No.11717205 >>11717203 This.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:36:55 2018 No.11717207 >>11717194 Race traitor. You should be ashamed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:46:04 2018 No.11717229 >>11716880 >they got constantly harassed by le based UKIP brigade good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:47:53 2018 No.11717235 >>11717229 This. Religious people all need to be brought to their fucking knees. The Christians and Jews already learned their lesson. Muslims are far too uppity.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 07:57:34 2018 No.11717268

>>11717202
>Islam easily lends itself to fundamentalism

Agreed.

>naskh and authority in interpretation

Naskh is overrated. It doesn't allow political manipulation as much as you would think. That being said...

>who is to say what goes in a sharia state

The ruler and the scholars (who might or might not decide to speak up against the ruler).

>how to deal with politics and war vs. Shariah

There is nothing to reconcile here. All is clear. God has given us permission to fight back when strong enough to fight back. If you aren't strong enough to fight back then you don't.

In regards to how you go about interpreting and logical 'consistency', you are obviously ignorant of the tradition. Logic (qiyas - comparison or weighing) is how laws are derived (interpreted) from scriptural sources. Whether one leans more on the side of qiyas or revelation is basically more about tradition (and is itself logically justified). For example the hanafis and the hanbalis are two extreme examples of whether laws are interpreted from sources or taken as literally as possible. I don't want to go into this but the problem of who to follow is not at all unique to Islam. I completely disagree with the drivel about economies of scale so I will just ignore it, but do read Thomas More's criticism of Luther. I think its very relevant to the contemporary case of Islam.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:04:43 2018 No.11717283

>>11717268
>I don't want to go into this but the problem of who to follow is not at all unique to Islam.
It is when your scriptures are just as much nation-building texts, as they are religious ones. Doesn't help that there is more infighting than in all other Abrahamic traditions either. And anti-intellectualism is rampant amongst your scholars.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:09:43 2018 No.11717291 >Tolkien, a catholic, writes about a universe where there's only one God This is why we're delighted.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:10:52 2018 No.11717295

>>11717283
>nation building

The nation didn't exist as a concept in 7th century Arabia. There was rampant tribalism and Islam was a strong universalist movement against this.

Infighting today or in the past?

I am really not in the mood to have a muh culture debate on 4chan but I am interested in this tradition because it is rich, it has shaped the way the world is today, and will have a strong influence in the future. So for me studying this tradition isn't some primitive hooliganism but genuine curiosity and hope for the well-being of the world.

You can't just say omg how stupid and hope Islam will disappear. You can only critique a tradition if you are familiar with it and have at least exerted some effort to understand it.

N.B. critique is not edge-lord tier behaviour you are engaging in rn - there is no logical connection between two parts of what you are saying.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:23:59 2018 No.11717333

>>11717295
That wasn't what I meant and you know it. Dar al Islam is meant to cover the whole globe if possible. I meant it is a political text as much as it is a religious one.

I don't know what you find edgelord about it. The fact that as you acknowledged, your scriptures lend themselves to fundamentalism simply because you take them to be the actual speech of god? The fact that aside from abrogation (which posits its own very bloody repercussions), you have no clear way to deal with internal contradictions? The fact that this is a problem moreso than in other Abrahamic traditions specifically because your scriptures are political in nature? The fact that your scholars are quantifiably more anti-intellectual than Jews and Christians?

I too am interested in this tradition because you people seem to be the only ones left procreating above replacement-fertility rates and getting one of you to procreate requires the partner to be or convert to the same club and almost guarantees that your offspring will also belong to the same club. So yes, I too am very interested. Worryingly so.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:30:38 2018 No.11717343 >>11716309 >Tolkien didnt like allegory though I know he claimed that he didn't like it, but he clearly did like it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:33:08 2018 No.11717353 >>11716237 No thanks, I'll pass. I kind of like bacon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:35:48 2018 No.11717356 >>11717353 pigs are smarter than dogs

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:36:35 2018 No.11717359 If anyone wants to know the truth about islam, just read the Quran.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:40:27 2018 No.11717368 >>11717356 Fine, put your bacon on Jeopardy then.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:45:58 2018 No.11717386 >>11717359 Unless you read in the original Arabic it's not the Quran.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:47:14 2018 No.11717390 >>11717386 I didn't say anything contrary to that.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:53:17 2018 No.11717404

>>11717333
>abrogation

What are its repercussions?

How are other scriptures any less political? You seem to prefer quantifying as a tool of measurement, so by the number of verses which are more directly political? What would distinguish a verse which has a command, or constructs a symbolic framework which has a bearing on the political, and those verses which don't? What is meant by the political?

I don't want to bother talking to you because you are worrying about a lost cause, and you are learning with no aim or use.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:54:02 2018 No.11717413

>>11717386
This is the toppest of all keks. Millions of muslims all over the world are 'taught' the Quran in the original Arabic despite not being able to understand a single word. Muh poetry and textual integrity. Many go through life without having read a line copy in a language that is comprehensible to them, yet they still get uppity when confronted.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:54:44 2018 No.11717417 >>11716073 solid

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 08:56:32 2018 No.11717423 >>11716274 >if you're a nonmuslim it's not an issue *provided you pay the unbeliever tax.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:02:10 2018 No.11717446 >>11717423 You realize that if we switched from the current tax rates of first world developed countries to the "unbeliever tax" it would be a massive tax break for everyone right? Jizya is a very small tax. You wish you were paying jizya.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:02:53 2018 No.11717449

>>11717404
My aim is the systematic undermining of Islam in the UK and the Europe in general. The more people I am able to drive away from it (or iterations that I find objectionable), the better. I don't do it full time, but I have a decent success rate amongst the pool of muslims I've gotten close to. But I also find it interesting by virtue of its size and survival mechanisms.

Islam is political in nature because your prophet was political in nature. It is far more resistant to secularism than the other Abrahamic traditions. Islamic politics are part of the package.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:06:20 2018 No.11717460 >>11717446 Yep at those tax rates we too could enjoy the effective, not-at-all-busted infrastructure and social services of the muslim world.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:09:48 2018 No.11717473

>>11717404
>>11717333
Psst, hey guys...
There's no abrogation in the Quran.
You were lied to.
"Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest?"
"(This was Our) way with the messengers We sent before thee: thou wilt find no change in Our ways."
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy."

"What We abrogate of a sign or We cause it to be forgotten, We bring better than it or similar to it. Do not you know that Allah over every thing is All-Powerful?"
The word ayatin means verses as it means signs (in creation, that's why it says after " Knowest thou not that to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Him ye have neither patron nor helper.")
In fact it means that signs in creation can disappear, but they are replaced. Also that verses of previous books can be abrogated (and even then it's only part of them since it says "what We abrogate OF a verse/sign")
also your comprehension of the ayatin can be abrogated and replaced by something better or similar. But it doesn't mean that there are things in the Quran itself that are abrogated. This would contradict the three quranic sentences I gave you earlier. Anytime you think two verses of the Quran contradict each other, it's just that you don't understand them well enough to see how they don't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:12:04 2018 No.11717481 >>11717473 Uh, try leaving it up to the experts (the clerics)?

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:14:20 2018 No.11717491

>>11717473
>Anytime you think two verses of the Quran contradict each other, it's just that you don't understand them well enough to see how they don't.
This. There are no internal contradictions and inconsistencies in the Quoran, because the Quoran is the speech of God and God can't be wrong and this quoting the very authority of the book whose authority and consistency has been called into question as to bolster its authority and consistency proves it.

Too many kafirs up in this bitch. /lit/ is now a muslim board innit bredrin?

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:14:42 2018 No.11717493

>>11716880
ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living%20apart%20together%20-%20jan%2007.pdf

World Public Opinion: 83% of Egyptians approve of attacks on American troops.
26% of Indonesians approve of attacks on American troops.
26% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on American troops.
68% of Moroccans approve of attacks on American troops.
90% of Palestinians approve of attacks on American troops.
72% of Jordanians approve of attacks on American troops.
52% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (39% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on American troops.
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

27% of British Muslims do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist.html

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

Policy Exchange (2016): 48% if British Muslims would not report a person "linked to terror."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2308529/half-british-muslims-would-not-report-is-supporters/

ICM (2016): 2 in 3 Muslims in Britain would not report terror plot to police.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-three-British-Muslims-would-NOT-give-police-terror-tip-offs
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.713917

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:17:36 2018 No.11717500

>>11716237
How do we know you're not lying?

https://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.

Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths is with pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir vol 4, p 49)

Quran (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you the dissolution of your oaths..."

Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed companions by Muhammad's men after they were "guaranteed" safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy." The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).

Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:19:09 2018 No.11717506

>>11717481
Some (many) clerics spout the same nonsense.

Truth is as Aisha has said of abrogation:

If the first verse to be revealed was to not drink wine, they would have said we will never stop drinking. And if it had been revealed to not commit adultery, they would have said we will never stop committing adultery. (Bukhari)

Verses were revealed to the prophet throughout his lifetime, and an abrogated verse was something that only belonged to the specific historical context of the revelation. On the deeper level, on the more significant level which enables the noble Qur'an to have meaning in other contexts, no the holy speech of the Lord is not abrogated.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:19:18 2018 No.11717507 >>11717493 >>11717500 ITT islamophobe UKIP Daily Fail readers

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:20:18 2018 No.11717512 >>11717481 Stop living inside other people's brains, it's very moist here.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:20:23 2018 No.11717513

>>11717500
He certainly isn't lying. He doesn't mean sharia isn't about stoning people in the sense that it views it as a barbaric ritual. He means 'sharia doesn't always mean stoning people, but it's within the realm of possibility, depends on what muh scholars say'.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:20:29 2018 No.11717514 >>11717507 False, I was arrested and was sentenced to 30 years hard labor for not having a teaspoon license. They don't give us the Daily Mail here in prison.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:21:32 2018 No.11717520 >>11717507 Is this your way of questioning the validity of all the polls?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:21:38 2018 No.11717521 File: 50 KB, 645x729, 1525679694753.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11716298 >Not me, the government might want to do it one day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:22:26 2018 No.11717526 >>11717506 >On the deeper level Uh oh... >on the more significant level Relativism detected! The enemy within will be the first to feel the blade.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:23:12 2018 No.11717529 >>11716397 lol you sound like a Mormon running damage control re: Joseph Smith

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:24:46 2018 No.11717533 >>11717526 >The enemy within will be the first to feel the blade. And I hope Saudi Arabia falls soon. They're at the center of the corruption.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:25:01 2018 No.11717534 Well if nothing else we've found a sure way to make a /lit/ thread have more than one post per day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:26:17 2018 No.11717538 >>11716404 you don't seem to be understanding much about Christianity either.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:28:21 2018 No.11717545 >>11716353 You made the right choice. It would have been just another form of easy-mode. Like those cargo-shorts wearers who marry hong-kong girls who don't speak any english.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:31:38 2018 No.11717554 >>11717545 >life should be needlessly difficult and you should suffer but why

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:31:43 2018 No.11717555 >>11717493 >muh polls Clinton had a 98% winning projection in polls, your point is? and I unironically agree with their opinion on U.S troops >>11717500 >thereligionofpeace.com post discarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:33:35 2018 No.11717562 >>11717554 It builds character.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:33:55 2018 No.11717563 File: 16 KB, 262x276, 1504535172650.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11717533 I wonder if anyone else is involved with Saudi Arabia

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:35:55 2018 No.11717570 File: 69 KB, 556x628, 1534686754227.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11717563

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:36:56 2018 No.11717575 >>11717526 I was referring to ilm ul yaqeen but sure, call the certain knowledge of tawheed through varying experiences relativism, if it pleases you.

Anonymous Sat Sep 1 09:38:00 2018 No.11717577

>>11717555
Last polls indicated trump had a 30%/25% chance of winning. In other words, if a consecutive series of elections would have been held, he would've won every 3rd or 4th one. People don;t understands how statistics work. 30% chance of winning is enormous. If some surgery that wasn;t absolutely necessary had 30% mortality rate, you'd have to be an idiot to take that bet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:01:07 2018 No.11717642 >>11716256 The “phobe” suffix doesn’t imply irrational hatred, retard. Ever heard of words like “cynophobia” or “arachnophobia”? Kill yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:02:21 2018 No.11717648 >>11716057 Unfortunately, no, but I certainly do

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:11:30 2018 No.11717685 >>11716057 If you ask a mulsin "do you want world wide sharia law" they'll say no, but if you ask "would the wold be better if everyone as muslim" they'll say yes. Just an observation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:12:12 2018 No.11717689 >>11716206 >You see a Muslim. I see an astronaut, a powerlifter, a scuba diver... ... a lifelong welfare recipient who hates and attacks the culture and the people he leeches off ...

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:14:30 2018 No.11717699 >>11717689 that's mainly a European thing to be fair. In the US Muslims tend to be afluent, educated and successful. You guys import them for cheap labor, so your problem with muzzies is the problem the US has with beaners

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:14:53 2018 No.11717703 >>11717642 I think what he meant by >or that is based in so much hate Is that Islam is a hateful religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:15:37 2018 No.11717711 >>11717642 Those words imply irrational fear.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 10:57:45 2018 No.11717922 >>11716073 Easternlings were based on Persians.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 11:01:08 2018 No.11717939 >>11717922 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8o2Tf7v7aW4

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 11:03:10 2018 No.11717946 >tfw both the easterlings and the haradrim have the best aesthetics in the movie

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 11:03:34 2018 No.11717949 File: 178 KB, 541x241, Screenshot_20180827-010104~2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11716353 Why do you think that the muslim girl would even marry you in the first place? Muslim woman rarely marry out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 11:04:00 2018 No.11717950 File: 51 KB, 400x266, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11717939 i was not expecting those feels

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 11:53:48 2018 No.11718188 >>11716096 >persians >stoning Read a fucking history book please.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 12:38:29 2018 No.11718386 >>11716609 What’s the difference? No seriously- There’s like several dozen different Christianity spin-off based faiths all over Europe, some large, some not- is there a chart for this?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 13:01:37 2018 No.11718488 Why do muslims hate dogs, anyhow?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 13:03:15 2018 No.11718500 >>11718488 They don't, false hadiths need not apply.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 13:05:54 2018 No.11718505 >>11718386 You should get advice about this from anywhere other than /lit/

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:30:47 2018 No.11719708 >>11716397 How do ya feel about Jews? We had a good number of centuries alongside one another. I feel like nostalgia is a trick of regret, but I do think the era of Rambam was wonderful for both faiths.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:36:18 2018 No.11719730 >>11717404 The Torah is not political, man. It's a survival guidebook for diaspora Jews and you know that's the only reason Deuteronomy is the way it is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:38:32 2018 No.11719740 >>11716057 yes. I love it. Peace with you my friend.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:41:06 2018 No.11719748 >>11717538 im not Christian, i was just saying what i liked about jesus

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:46:56 2018 No.11719764 >>11716004 It's lotr with fewer Christian undertones. They're good fantasy books, brent. >>11716057 All practicing muslims want sharia law. Most western muslims aren't practicing and are muslim the same way western jews are jewish--by family.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:46:59 2018 No.11719765 >>11716309 >more likely it was a vague idea in his head related to Nordics, He just took the lightelves of nordic mythology and made them more human.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 17:51:59 2018 No.11719789 >>11716353 alienation from god, alienation from others, alienation from self. >>11717554 because intellectuals see the value in doing things the right way instead of the easy way.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 18:05:00 2018 No.11719835 File: 66 KB, 627x663, 777.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11716057 The real ones.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 20:02:20 2018 No.11720361 >>11717096 >a part of your own culture that you have a deep understanding of Probably 90% of westerners don't actually understand Christianity on more than a superficial level.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 20:14:13 2018 No.11720403 >>11720361 most actually get it fundamentally wrong even on the superficial level.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 1 20:19:28 2018 No.11720423 >>11720361 >>11720403 what do you guys mean Christianity is just 'jesus was divine and is the only way' right? That makes you a christian if you think that, or am i confused

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 01:11:59 2018 No.11721383 >>11716015 He was more scared of greasy chinamen.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 01:14:44 2018 No.11721393 >>11716057 I'm not a muslim and still want it desu.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 02:14:37 2018 No.11721586

>>11716397
>Muhammad (pbuh) was not a "warlord". That's a total exagerration. He was in conflict with Mecca which kicked him and his followers out and stole their property, tortured and murdered his followers, and even then he constantly prayed for his enemies.

>Rises from middling merchant to ruler of the Arabian peninsula by using an army of believers to conquer everything in reach
>not a warlord

If this kind on nonsense weren't seriously often said by muslims, I'd have dismissed you as a troll.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 02:19:23 2018 No.11721598 >>11717152 >Also, fuck Tolkien Man, what did he ever do to you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 02:34:40 2018 No.11721627 >>11716057 what do you mean by sharia ? do you mean the way that muslims pray or how they wash before they pray ? then yes but if you mean ultra conservative like iran then no m8

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 03:22:35 2018 No.11721729 >>11716057 >>11721627 The majority of Muslims in the USA say they would prefer sharia over the US constitution. (Presumably the ones in the US are the more moderate Muslims.) Seems like they are hoping for more than just laws about how often you pray.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 07:14:00 2018 No.11722342

>>11720423
At the gathering of "the diet of worms" where Luther was to be questioned and they probably would have killed him for his deviation of tradition. However, he managed to slip out. But again Islam is the uncorrupted and pure tradition of monotheism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 07:36:46 2018 No.11722419 >>11716004 They want to break free.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 07:40:09 2018 No.11722433 >>11716880 >I knew some muslim qts from Iran and Morocco in my uni, and they got constantly harassed by le based UKIP brigade back when Brexit was happening Sad as that sounds I find it hard to believe. What uni did you go to and what exactly went on?

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 08:22:17 2018 No.11722596

>>11717065
Yet the jews and the likes of Tomas Aquinas were inspired by the Muslims. Descartes even ripped of Ghazali and William Craig is still using the cosmological kalam argument. The fabric of which the knowledge of the west soared to greater heights, were only made possible by the numerous translations and commentaries Muslims made on the greeks. Beyond that, they also contributed much of their own knowledge. Albeit we see the current trend of Islam as perpetuated by those who have power(Saudi) is as flawed in the theological and sharia fiqh. One could read Olivier Roy for a better clarification of the nihilistic tendencies of suicide bombers.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 08:44:44 2018 No.11722683

>>11722596
Yeah, not that impressed with the kalam cosmological argument, even less so considering it's a rephrasing of the Aristotelian unmoved mover argument. Not that I thinker either are strong arguments for Abrahamic apologists.

And the "golden age" that you speak of is severely overstated. Any philosophical dissidence saw swift punishment and what you refer to as the golden age of Islam (as a geopolitical space) was in fact ended by Islam, the religion.

While there might be some tenable variants of Islam (and best of luck with dissolving the Saudi monopoly on Islam - not that I see any encouraging Islamic noises from elsewhere), I think that as a whole, it's past the point of reformation and the nature of its scriptures makes it more resistant to reformation and prone to fundamentalism than any other Abrahamic tradition.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 08:50:30 2018 No.11722700 >>11716317 what country are you from?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 09:01:28 2018 No.11722739 >Islam isn't whit― https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zclw9NovbA

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 09:13:22 2018 No.11722775 >>11722739 What's that got to do with anything?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 09:14:59 2018 No.11722778 >>11716256 >denying the heroism of islam >implying any religion couldnt be seen as controlling if you wanted to >hate begone modernist bugman

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 09:25:13 2018 No.11722802

>>11722683
Not arguing that it is the end all of arguments, just answering the statement that Islam being anti-intellectual.
Whether or not it is overstated is in contrast to the societies of that time which I cannot say whether it was or not. The point is not whether the golden age was overstated but again the lack of intellectual discourse in comparison with the other religions. One would be wrong to say so as the interactions of these three religions were bound to happen as they all arise from somewhat the same region.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 09:41:02 2018 No.11722843 >>11721729 Where'd ya get this stat from buddy

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 09:45:14 2018 No.11722854
File: 76 KB, 564x423, cb22e0f746ab27c6bfe15a5877ef0bfd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11717065
>Islam is the most anti-intellectual Abrahamic religion. Also the most aesthetically vile of them all.
>someone somewhere actually dared to say that

"And among men and moving creatures and the cattle are various colors likewise. Only fear Allah among His slaves those who have knowledge. Indeed, Allah is All-Mighty, Oft-Forgiving."

"Until, when they come, He will say, "Did you cry lies to My signs, and did you not encompass them in knowledge, or what were you doing?""

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 10:08:37 2018 No.11722929 Like Tolkien, many Muslims are backwards reactionaries

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 10:19:49 2018 No.11722973 File: 23 KB, 290x778, gsi2-overview-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11722843 I can't recall. I do have the global numbers though, from pew.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 10:26:36 2018 No.11722996 I don't exactly think it's relevant to the story. I also can't blame a monotheist for hating another religion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 10:46:41 2018 No.11723055 >>11716206 lmao, charitable people those muslims are, only taking a 30 year old mercedes and 3 fridges with them in exchange for their invaluable services

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 10:50:24 2018 No.11723067 >>11716353 >thinking that repressing sexuality leads to purity all women are the same thots just wear their boyfriends cum on their sleeves

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 13:41:07 2018 No.11723768

>>11716284
I’m not that anon but I’ve hooked up with a Muslim girl once. It’s within the realm of possibility but I’d avoid it. Islam has nothing to do with it, as with most middle-eastern girls with a strong sense of culture she’s going to get crazy clingy afterwards. at least be on the same page as her emotionally bc that shits a mess.

>>11716266
I’ve had a good handful of Muslim friends growing up, from kindergarten to today. It’s literally such a non-issue that I didn’t know people had a problem with it until /pol/ brought it up. There was a Jew and a Muslim at my high school that were friends, and they were actually pretty opinionated about their opposes beliefs. sometimes they pretended to hate each other bc it was funny.
Also my dad is a bonified islamophobic pastor who worked with a bunch of muslim engineers and even he admitted it wasn’t a problem.
The only time I can think of when someone’s religion ever came up was in a dietary context. like
>hey wanna go to Carl’s Jr.?
>it’s Ramadan but I’ll go to hang out
or
>is there pig in these hot dogs
>nah
>cool
that’s literally it.

actually once I hung out with a Jewish girl on Shabbat and she literally couldn’t do anything. Like press the button on the crosswalk or eat or literally anything. that was kinda lame I guess

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 13:43:18 2018 No.11723775 Why are there so many Arab women on GR in general?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 13:56:40 2018 No.11723827 File: 86 KB, 455x675, 1499726838824.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11722778 >Trying this hard to justify your shitty, hateful religion

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 14:02:46 2018 No.11723853 >>11723827 Trying that hard to ignore the truth (grovel in your existential crisis)

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 14:07:25 2018 No.11723881 >>11716015 I thought most Anglos were semitiphiles(sp?)?

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 14:30:02 2018 No.11723981

>>11716353
I befriended one, a serious reader even, who really came alive whenever we'd meet up. She had three elder brothers in the city, all of whom were out of university and 'successful,' each of whom checked up on her from time to time (she lived in a group apartment, one of her m8s was a girl I knew from hs- who in fact introduced us). At any rate though orthodox Sunni I was incredibly attracted to her and I know that the feeling was mutual. Still I think we both knew that nothing could happen, that nothing would be allowed to happen, so why press matters..? We didn't, but we did remain friends and I really have no regrets. Thought very seriously about her for two or so years however and dated no one else during that frame of time.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 14:31:37 2018 No.11723986
File: 201 KB, 415x914, PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-23.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11723768
And generally when at low concentrations they do can get along. The question is what happens in Sweden if it is 30% Muslim. Will it still be so congenial? Countries with that percentage currently are not so nice to live in.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 14:32:30 2018 No.11723988 >>11716016 underrated

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 15:03:54 2018 No.11724115 >>11723775 Muslim men are obligated to provide for them, so most of them are stay at home moms who don't work. They have time to indulge in literature.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 15:13:03 2018 No.11724169 >>11716353 You are sick.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 15:34:40 2018 No.11724295 >>11716016 I get it, nice.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 15:41:43 2018 No.11724339 >>11724115 >tfw no wife to provide for while she makes the home and embarks on intellectual endeavors

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 15:44:14 2018 No.11724353 >>11724339 begome muslim :DDDD

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 15:58:22 2018 No.11724441

>>11723986
>based on 2014 - 2016
I mean, they're technically right that it'd look like that if the trend from those years (specifically; 2015 during the massive refugee wave) kept going, but it's the equivalent of looking at a nation's GDP growth right after the 2008 recession and basing a 30 year forecast on that observation alone.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:02:48 2018 No.11724465

>>11716057
Yes, even Muslims that smoke and drink alcohol will tell you they want sharia law. Where you will hear different answers is on whether hudud (penal law) should be enforced in totality, in part or at all. Even in fairly radical organization like the Muslim brotherhood there is no consensus on that issue. Many Westerners think of sharia as only hudud while most of sharia is civil law.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:18:58 2018 No.11724547

>>11724441
Sure, 30% at 2050 doesn't seem the most likely. But will muslim birth rates slow? Does 20% or 15% still lead to troubles and civil unrest in western states too? Are the second generation more militant? Is there anything to be done to ease that? Questions I'd want considered before turning my country into India.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:22:18 2018 No.11724562 >>11724465 most of sharia is personal obligations like prayer, fasting, ritual purity, etc. Those are physically the biggest books of sharia.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:23:51 2018 No.11724574 >>11716309 More specifically the elves represent the Finnish, in both appearance and language. The orc language was based on Norweigians'

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:25:18 2018 No.11724581

>>11716057
All memes aside I think many of them don’t think of the term “law” as a legal obligation but more personal guidelines as Muslims. Obviously there are many who want to saw your head off for being an infidel but it would be silly to think that all 1.2 billion or whatever are bloodthirsty savages, simply based on what we know about human nature

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:25:45 2018 No.11724584 >>11716040 >stones girls to death and cuts off the heads of non believers Just like they did in the Shire

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:30:38 2018 No.11724607 >>11724581 I dunno about that; the more convinced a few are about mass murder the easier it'll be for the masses to slowly fall into that line of thought.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:31:58 2018 No.11724615

>>11724547
>Are the second generation more militant?
historically, as generations pass they assimilate to the local culture. edges rub off, they don’t sharpen. public elementary schools put everyone’s kids in the same box and they grow up together, incidentally forcing cultures to interact, share, fight, romance, and compete with each other on an individual level. that’s why race wars almost never actually leave the ground, we’re all to invested in one another.

also India is 80% Hindu.
coincidentally I grew up around mostly Indians in my area(Sikh, but still) and again, no culture clashes there. mostly just language barrier, Punjabi is a very difficult language to pick up. I’ve been around the language my whole life and the only words I know are “what” and “bitch”.
they have an annual religious parade that shuts down multiple streets and give everyone free pizza and soda.
there’s no valid reason to dislike them as a peope

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:33:13 2018 No.11724623

>>11724562
Depends what you mean physically. If it's just hadith compilations then yes. If you include comments and all the derived legal literature then it's the civil law part which is completely normal given that it has much greater practical consequences.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:38:23 2018 No.11724661

>>11724547
>>11724615 is total wrong on this. The second generation is significantly more militant than the first, at least in the extreme ends of the distribution, where it counts. Their first gen parents are largely the elite of their home society, and naturally more inclined to the commercial/materialist nature of western society, which is why they came here in the first place. They do well because only people who are capable of doing well are motivated to come here in the first place. Their kids don't always follow in their footsteps and many are excluded from the economic system, I saw this firsthand with a Palestinian friend I had growing up. With economic exclusion comes cultural angst, and a yearning for some other system of meaning. They gravitate to old customs as an easily available source of this meaning, and are therefore easy targets for radicalization.

Obviously many are successfully integrated, but the core body of radical islamists comes almost entirely from the second and subsequent generations rather than the first gen, who are largely materialist religiously.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:41:13 2018 No.11724680 >>11724661 fuck, didn't realize you were talking about hindus, they're cool. was referring to muzzies

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:43:12 2018 No.11724690

>>11724615
>historically, as generations pass they assimilate to the local culture

Not in Europe. France is at the fourth generation and it's much more radical than the third one, which was more radical than the second one, which was more radical than the first one. Where kids used to be schooled together in the 80s now the white ones are sent to private schools or parents cheat zoning to send them to white public ones. Where women would go bare-headed in the 80-90s now they wear veils. Whites started fleeing mixed housing in the late 70s and now dwell in detached houses in the suburbs (or downtown for the richer ones) while Muslims live in first periphery large ghetto structures. Same with other European countries except most rarely have more than two/three generations.

I do not think there will be a race war but i'm almost certain it will end up like Lebanon, that is, not the civil war but communities living mostly separately in the same state.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:49:26 2018 No.11724731

>>11724661
>Their first gen parents are largely the elite of their home society

Depends on the host country. Countries where immigration started early, like France, mostly got poor people. The rest of you analysis still stand. They were a lot less radical than their kids and even less so than their grandkids. Radicalization has not -that- much to do with economic factors. Al Qaeda and Isis have a significant number of university graduates.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 16:55:50 2018 No.11724767 >>11724690 The ghettoization of all cities is happening.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 17:05:12 2018 No.11724815 >>11724767 Nah. It's different from the US. Downtowns are becoming rich enclaves. In large cities you have the rich downtown core, one layer of immigrant ghettos, then one layer of various level of non-rich native whites.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 17:18:31 2018 No.11724887

>>11720423
Not all Christians agree on the divinity, not all of them agree on the trinity, not all of them agree on the way to heaven, on works, on grace, on predestination, on transubstantiation, et cetera et cetera.

Most Christians today don't even realise that they disagree with their own proclaimed denomination in their theological claims.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 17:20:30 2018 No.11724894 File: 11 KB, 250x300, Qutb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11722342 Not all branches of Islam though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 18:24:37 2018 No.11725197 >>11724894 There is some deviation, though 80-90% of Islam is based on the tradition. Those that have deviated are mostly still Muslim. Except for weird groups, like 5 percent, NOI, and Ahmadiyya.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:01:51 2018 No.11725360 >>11716016 Spbp

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:07:52 2018 No.11725397 >>11717545 >those cargo-shorts wearers kek

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:26:10 2018 No.11725482 >>11716257 "rational" "sensible" "reasonable"

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:27:12 2018 No.11725486 >>11716280 YES.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:27:56 2018 No.11725492 >>11716280 >you want to lock up a criminal and you think theyre the problem

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:36:11 2018 No.11725533

>>11716397
mental gymnastics. He was a warlord. He broke peace treaties, slaughtered, enslaved, raped, pillaged.

But It's impossible for a "true muslim" to acknowledge because the islamic worldview is based on honor/dishonor.

If it's "true" but dishonorable, that's slander.

Are you lying on purpose, or do you just see things from a different ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:37:46 2018 No.11725540 >>11716880 bullshit. but if it's true, based.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:43:38 2018 No.11725564 >>11722854 >believe these statements at face value, don't critically examine

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:44:41 2018 No.11725569 >>11723853 convert to christianity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 19:48:07 2018 No.11725584 File: 43 KB, 500x666, funny_people_at_a_goth_party_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11716290 Sounds like a cunt UHHHHH

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 23:24:22 2018 No.11726393 >>11716256 I prefer to translate phobos as 'revulsion' in my head. It makes a lot of difference when trying to analyse if X is Yphobic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 2 23:43:04 2018 No.11726435 >>11724581 Also many of the muslims calling for sharia law to be implemented mean for religious courts, similar to how Roman Catholics and Jews have religious courts in the United States.

Anonymous Sun Sep 2 23:44:30 2018 No.11726439

>>11716880
iranians aren't really muslim, they're zorastrian at heart but luckily the ones in the home country are forced into islam. I say luckily because without the restrictions of islam they are naturally one of the most selfish, materialist, and conniving group of whore-people to ever exist on this planet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 3 00:13:05 2018 No.11726531 >>11716256 yeah but he was a Catholic :P

Anonymous Mon Sep 3 00:52:10 2018 No.11726671

>>11724615
>80% Hindu
My point was they are 15% muslim. And it seems to be causing India some trouble. As it seems to cause many other countries with as large of muslim populations. Of course these countries are also developing and have many other problems.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 3 01:34:34 2018 No.11726795 >>11716057 most muslims don't even know what sharia is

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 3 08:25:49 2018 No.11727745 >>11725564 What you mean by "critically examine" is just "make what is clearly written somehow mean the opposite". You're so stupid.

Anonymous Mon Sep 3 09:16:33 2018 No.11727907

>>11721586
>>11725533
Lying is OK if it makes Islam look good
>>11722854
Quran also states that if you doubt anything and think "it doesn't happen just because Allah says so", you're a blasphemer.
>>11724547
>My country
You're fucked. Disable heating or get ready for big muslim cock.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 3 09:50:16 2018 No.11728012 >>11727907 UK mooselimes are small-dicked as they're overwhelmingly from the Indian subcontinent. I have easily crusaded some of their women and gotten praise for it for this very reason. France might be an entirely different matter though.

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