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/lit/ - Literature

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1169700 No.1169700 [Reply] [Original]

Tell me, /lit/: How do you feel about book piracy?

>> No.1169702

If there's one industry that needs financial support right now, its the book industry. Especially respectable authors like Jonathon Franzen.

Also, inb4
>Jonathon Franzen
>respectable

>> No.1169704

Books I don't mind buying. I like the feel of books. I like the look of them. I like the smell of them. It's totally different from music.

>> No.1169705

Don't care. Get books from library. Capitalism never does good books justice anyway.

>> No.1169706

>>1169700
Fuck you, I'd download a car if I could.

>> No.1169744

>>1169700
yes, why yes i would download a car if i could, and books are yucky... except harry potter

>> No.1169745
File: 34 KB, 636x520, 1266971435101.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1169745

I make no moral claims about my piracy of anything: books, vidya, music or otherwise. I pirate because it is convenient, and I believe my chances of being caught are much lower than the cost of the things I download. I try not to think about the moral implications.

It is my understanding that copyright law was formulated to protect authors in an age when presses were becoming sufficiently common that just about anyone could print and sell their book once they'd seen it. It seems to me that anyone with the internet has a press of a sort, so the real issue comes down to how you feel about two simple questions:
1) Do you believe that the formulation of copyright law in the first place was moral?
and
2)Do you believe it was formulated to make sure authors could make money, or to prevent others from making a living on things that they had no right to claim as their own?

>> No.1169748

>>1169706
agreed.

>> No.1169762

Movie piracy: don't watch movies. Don't care anyway, they're making ridiculous amounts of money whether I pirate or not.
Game piracy: depends on the developer. I buy games from indie devs, Valve, etc. Never anything from Kotick & co.
Book piracy: never. Authors are fucking starving man. That shit's not cool.

>> No.1169769

>>1169745

Interesting post. Thank you.

>> No.1169775

>>1169745

No and kinda. The stated purpose of copyright from the beginning was the public good, because by providing a temporary monopoly it would indirectly subsidize the creation of art, etc.

>> No.1169789

I live in Canada so I have very little issues with the anti-piracy laws. What decides if I do download or buy is purely moral:

Music: I download about 80% of what I listen to. The other 20% are usually LPs I pick up at shows. I try to support local/independent artists as much as possible.

Movies/TV: I download everything. I rarely go to the movies as I hate the smell of popcorn and the movie-goer crowd in general. Again, if it's something I truly liked I'll buy the DVD/Blu-Ray but this is really an area where I'll never feel bad for the industry.

Books: I buy pretty much everything. Sometimes I'll buy the book and download the audio version so I can read while at home, and listen to it while I commute to work/school. Somehow my purchase of the hard copy makes me entitled to the audio version. I also hate reading on a computer screen.

>> No.1169792

I personally think copyright law was a good thing, but at the point where disney lobbies not to lose mickey mouse money, I think we're way past any validation for it. I don't listen to much music but I'll support bands I know need it and I listen to a lot of older rock, for which I don't feel bad pirating i.e. the beatles, I'll watch new movies in the cinema and only buy dvd's when they're dirt cheap. I do buy all my books, because I don't like reading on a monitor and I love a book as medium.

>> No.1169799

I got my Kindle in the mail this Tuesday so I won't be buying any novels for a while.

That being said, I purchased 25 books this year, and I pirated them all after I ordered them so I could start reading, and have a digital copy.

I think it's fair when you consider that half the ebooks on Amazon aren't available for my country, and the price of the digital version is often more expensive than the paperback.

>> No.1169803

Perhaps this is something that has been said before, but I am the type that if I really like a book, I will just buy it for my 'tangible' book collection. Nothing beats the smell of a new book.

>> No.1169806

An important thing to consider is that a lot of books no longer have living authors.
So you aren't depriving a deserving man of the value of his work by pirating it, since the deserving man is in the ground.

>> No.1169812

>>1169745
I understand that money is involved when people are reproducing and then selling something they didn't create, but there doesn't seem to be any money involved in internet piracy. Maybe uploaders get advertising money from the traffic the pull in?

>> No.1169836

If writing books stopped being profitable, would humanity stop writing?

>> No.1169840

>>1169836
It would once again become of the realm of talented amateurs.

>> No.1169920

I am having trouble finding good torrent sites where I can pirate books. Not the types of sites that offer free books that are old or common classics, but the current new york times best sellers, and the like are hard to find.

Anybody got augusten burroughs? I can't find him anywhere to download thats a non audio version.

>> No.1169924

No difference between checking a book out from a library and downloading it.

Information has a value of close to zero when the distribution costs are near zero

>> No.1169931

>>1169920
ISO hunt and the pirate bay both usually have what you're looking for. Demonoid is superior though, it's an aggregate of a lot of other trackers and has some hosting of its own. Invite only though.

>> No.1169936

>>1169931

Yeah... I don't have a Demonoid account so... =/

>> No.1169937

I feel nothing. My goal is to read. Anything in between, including moral faggotry does not interest me.

>> No.1169944

>>1169745
i agree and disagree. this has everything to do with morals. it is morally wrong for me to give money to a publisher when the printing & distribution costs are nothing (i am specifically talking about "ebooks"). now if an author says "pay me 5 dollars to download this .txt or .pdf from my website, the money goes directly to me" i would be more than happy to do this. i do not pirate books right now but that is for reasons beyond this conversation. i do however fully support book pirates because each download is slowly killing the archaic publishing industry.

>> No.1169954

I don't give a flying fuck. I have a kindle and that shit pays for itself pretty damn fast because I pirate.

Qyeahhhh!

>> No.1169961

>>1169936
>>1169936
email me ricorianguardian@gmail.com i'll invite you

>> No.1169971

>>1169961

It would be super if you could! Emailed you

>> No.1170022

>>1169704
Ditto.
I don't pirate books because I like /books/. You can't pirate a /book/ book without, y'know, stealing in a literal sense. As in you walk into the store, pick up the item and then leave without paying. So, no.
As far as music goes, I pirate first, buy later. Always.
Games, I buy, mostly because I like console games and I honestly want to feel legit. PC games I might pirate to try them out, but usually I end up buying them for the sake of owning them.
(if the item is used then i will buy it without worry that I'm supporting a corrupt publisher, adurr)

>> No.1170058

>>1170022
Piracy != Stealing

>> No.1170184

Fuck morals, but I'm old school and like having the book in my hands.

I only download them when I can't get them in my country. Though I plan on buying them as soon as possible.

>> No.1170267
File: 154 KB, 367x600, image1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1170267

I buy from pirates all the time.

>> No.1170322

I don't have room to store dead tree books and I don't trust amazon's kindle store enough to buy from them when they can pull the carpet out from under the DRM at any time. So I download my books from questionable sources.

feelsgoodman.jpg etc.

Even if neither of those were true (they are) I'd still pirate my books. I pirate my pc games, console games, tv shows, movies and hell yes I would pirate my cars if I could. Why should books get left out?

>> No.1170325

I don't pirate books because they're easily available to read for free in book stores and libraries. It allows me to read through complete books or just a few chapters, and decide what i really like from there.
I buy a dozen or so books a month because i like to read when I'm on the shitter. I could use my iPhone, but i hate reading stuff on a screen for long periods and I'm not going to spend money on an electronic device just to do one thing.
I also believe in supporting the author. I pay money to show that i liked his work, which funds further works.

I pirate music and video games though. While i think music artists deserve money too, I show my appreciation by going to their concerts which they get far more money out of than their CDs. With video games, it's harder to show appreciation to developers when their publishers are usually assholes and there's no way I'm going to support a publisher's ideas of milking customers. I buy used when there's no option of pirating easily.

>> No.1170338

I only buy used books or check them out from the library. What I'm doing is no better than piracy, and yet completely legal.

>> No.1170508

>>1170325
A dozen books a month on the shitter? Enjoy your prolapsed colon

>> No.1170528

I pirate books, but I would MUCH rather have a physical copy of it. Just because it's hard to focus on the computer screen for a long time.

>> No.1170532

>>1170508
I lold

>> No.1170533

>>1170508


I've been reading on the can since I was a kid and my ass is no worse for wear.

>> No.1170536

>>1170508
Wait, how does that happen? Does lack of support lead to the prolapse or something?

>> No.1170540

>>1170536
I read about a bunch of kids having that problem from reading Harry Potter on the toilet. True story.

Also, vibrating magic broom getting little girls off.

>> No.1170555

I go to the library for books, I LOVE THE LIBRARY

>> No.1170568

I started pirating books when I realized that I hadn't bought a new book for at least a year or two. If I'm just going to used bookstores, the authors aren't getting my money anyways.

>> No.1170571

i love pirate books

>> No.1170598

>>1169700
you mean instead of shaking those little stick things out of books at the book store?

>> No.1170620

i pirate a number of books for a variety of reasons. Mainly I don't want more physical books at this point in my life I need a light load as I'm not set anywhere. Secondly it is much easier to obtain as I live in a rural area. I'm not a fan of the kindle drm but it does make it convenient. My problem though is that there are many books that I want to read that will not show up on a torrent/usenet/or#bookz and that is when there is no choice. It irritates me when the price of an ebook is the same or more than the physical copy.

>> No.1170630

Not too fussed about it: I have never done it though. I take books out from the library and if I really enjoy them then I will note it down so I can buy them at a future date

>> No.1170633
File: 209 KB, 1680x1050, 1285726089108.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1170633

I'm pirating software, games, movies, tv-series and music and don't care at all. Even the favorite stuff I really love (i.e. games from small independent studios like Amnesia). All the things about not-supporting developers/filmmakers/musicians/writers are bullshit. Your 20 bucks won't change anything. It only matters when everyone does it, but you CAN'T change behavior of others. They will buy or pirate things no matter you do. So why bother? If you can easily steal and avoid getting caught it's much smarter to pirate than waste money. All that matter is your own utility. If you're moralfag the best course of action is to buy stuff. If you don't care, you should pirate.

But I love books and I love having them on my shelf. And that feeling is impossible to pirate, so I buy them. If I could download physical copy of book or steal it from bookstore without the risk I'd do it.

>> No.1170640

>>1170633
I bet you don't go to the voting booth every November second, do you? (provided you are American)

>> No.1170644

>>1170640
Not American but yeah... voting is also useless. I'm well aware my vote with huge probability won't change anything and it's more likely that I'll got hit by car on my way there, but I vote anyway. In this case utility of the subjective feeling of giving my vote to the right political party is higher than cost of a few minutes of my time.

>> No.1170647

>>1170633
but I would
I WOULD download a bear

>> No.1170648

>>1170508 A dozen books a month on the shitter? Enjoy your prolapsed colon
It's not like I'm taking 15 minutes to shit.
I do my business in about a minute and stay there with my pants down until i finish the chapter.

>>1170633 All the things about not-supporting developers/filmmakers/musicians/writers are bullshit. Your 20 bucks won't change anything.
It's not really about supporting them. It's about showing your appreciation for the product that they created. A thank you.
Your purchase may not go toward the creator directly, but it's one more mark that took inventory from the store shelves and making it closer for them to restock, or maybe make them order more or as many of the creator's next product.

>> No.1170649

>>1170633
>pirate amnesia

I hate you. I hate you so much. All 20,000 of you faggots go hurr durr piraet game, not like it matters. If you just don't care, that is fine, but don't pretend you are justified, and don't you dare complain when the only games on the market are brown and bloom 4: activision edition.

>> No.1170655

>>1170640
i vote and i pirate everything, though i am not the same poster. what's the correlation?

>> No.1170657

>>1170649
i agree with you that not supporting indie game developers is a grave mistake to make. If you prefer a world dominated by corps like EA and Activision-Blizzard by all means don't contribute to games you enjoy by indie authors.

>> No.1170658

>>1170655
He's implying that if he wouldn't pirate, there would still be a million other people pirating.
His one vote doesn't matter against the millions of other votes.

>> No.1170661

>>1170648
>It's about showing your appreciation for the product that they created.
I understand what you mean, but I still prefer saving money over sending one weak signal to publisher.

>>1170649
I'm not proud of it. But I don't really justify my actions, I'm sorry if it sounded like that it wasn't my intention. I just really don't care and I wanted to say why.

Also Amnesia should be longer and all endings were kinda disappointing. I don't feel bad about pirating it even though I was considering buying this one.

>> No.1170664

>>1170649
Amnesia wasn't worth 20 dollars, bro.

I'd pay a dollar or two for it, no more.

>> No.1170666
File: 69 KB, 503x709, mirrorsedge.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1170666

>>1170657
>EA
Hell yeah motherfucker I'm liking that.

Never mind the myth that indie games are automatically good. Most are shit - I can't actually think of an indie game that WAS good, and I've pirated a lot of them.

>> No.1170668

When I'm downloading it, it says nowhere that I'm downloading something illegal(ly obtained), since there are also many legal downloads, I am not able to tell the difference.

I'm not obliged by law to get a license to download or anything. So I'm just going to act like I know fuck nothing about piracy and think it's all legal.

>> No.1170669

>>1170666
>implying mirror's edge was good
>implying Amnesia, Penumbra, Cryostasis aren't great

Oh, I get it. You just have shit for taste. Well you should be set then. Many more generic shit stains of games on their way! Have fun with Call of Duty 7: Future Warfare 10 and more WoW updates!

>> No.1170682

>>1170668
Except in America, the legal system explicitly states that ignorance of the law does not excuse you from the penalties.

>> No.1170691

>>1170682

But what if I pretend I don't know it explicitly states that?

>> No.1170694

>>1170691
what happens in the us is that your ISP gets a cease and desist letter. They then ask you to get rid of the content and will restore your internet after that. If it keeps happening it could be an issue. In a recent example people were torrenting shitty movies and a large range of IPs were collected and individually sued. The government is not going to come after you over copyright violation unless you are some kind of major producer. Most likely you would be sued by a rightsholder.

>> No.1170703

>>1170682
But in 99% of the cases, it's obvious something is illegal. Murder for instance.

Saying I can or cannot download things is like saying you can kill some people, but others you cannot kill. However there is no real way to tell the difference between the people you can and cannot kill.

It's legal to buy a stolen car if you're not aware of it being stolen, the worst that can happen is they take your car. There is no way I can be aware of pirated music/movies etc. being pirated, I cannot possible know.

If you say something like this in court, you'll walk. Ask your lawyer.

>> No.1170716

I love when people think it's "illegal". Uh, not exactly. Loads of fringe laws and loopholes keep it from being "illegal".

>> No.1170717

>>1170694
You know, I've been downloading for years now and have never received one of these letters in the mail or via ISP. I do see the ISP trolling when I have Peerblock open, though.

>> No.1170721

>>1170661 I understand what you mean, but I still prefer saving money over sending one weak signal to publisher.
I take it you don't believe in tipping either?

Maybe if you worked as a waiter or even a barista (these bastards usually make minimum wage + health insurance + tips), you'd know that those paltry tips add up to a significant amount.

>> No.1170725

I used to buy all my favorite books and read shit from the library.

Now I buy all my favorite books and download shit from the Internet.

Anyone who's been to a modern American public library knows that nothing of value was lost.

>> No.1170726
File: 75 KB, 443x704, 31615.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1170726

I do it in some cases, usually to have a look at the books that I'm going to buy and see if it's worth reading. I don't really like reading them onscreen though, and my relationship to literature is like that to love: damn posessive.

I pirate many other things, though, simply because in music and games the ways of preventing piracy are so annoying and time-consuming that it's just flat-out more convenient. Just way too limited.

Pic related to piracy, but not neccessarily my opinion.

>> No.1170733

>>1170721
Remember the scene with Steve Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs?

>> No.1170734

It doesn't affect me, so I don't care.

>> No.1170735

>>1170733
The point isn't whether they deserve it, the point is just that those numbers add up and isn't hugely one sided like a popularity contest where only one reins supreme.

>> No.1170743

>>1170725
>Anyone who's been to a modern American public library knows that nothing of value was lost.
>Anyone who's been to a modern American public library knows that nothing of value was lost.
>Anyone who's been to a modern American public library knows that nothing of value was lost.
>Anyone who's been to a modern American public library knows that nothing of value was lost.

This is definitely so, but I still buy the books I read.

>> No.1170746

>>1170735
ok ok, of course they add up, but that's exactly why I don't care about contributing myself (not talking about tips now, but purchasing vidya etc.)

>> No.1170748

Buying a book is far too expensive, I think the author does deserve a small contribution for every book acquired, but when books cost as much as they do and 98% goes to printers and distributers (now obsolete due to teh interweb) well fuck I'll just pirate it

>> No.1170749

>>1169700
Depends if the writer is dead or alive.
Alive, I'll buy new, dead I'll buy used or pirate it (both equate to the same thing). That said, I prefer reading physical books.

>> No.1170756

>>1170746
You do realise there are thousands if not hundred of thousands with this same mindset.

You are all so fucking stupid.

>> No.1170759

Is there a generator/photoshop font for those images around anywhere?

>> No.1170761

>>1170756
so what? that's my point exactly, why should I care? why me? no matter what I do there will always be hundred of thousand people acting indifferently to my decision

pay twice as much for things if you care so much

>> No.1170774

I don't pretend to have some moral justification. I hate the guy who thinks it's okay to steal/pirate/otherwise take from a large corporation just because they're a large corporation. As a business student, I find it a little offensive that it's somehow okay to take money from a business if they're big.

Pirating books is immoral, but it has a very high reward:risk ratio, and quite honestly, I could not afford to own 11,344 real books even at, say, $9.99 per paperback. That's $113,440. Now, granted, I don't intend to read even a tenth of my ebook collection, but the nice thing about it is there's no risk involved in picking up a book that looked or sounded interesting. If I'm sorting through my still-unsorted books and come across something that looked cool, I'll just add it to Calibre and get around to reading it. If it turns out to be kind of lame, I'll just delete it off my ereader. If it turns out to be great, I have another book, great.

I buy plenty of books, but piracy is extremely convenient, cheap, and allows me to find books I'd otherwise have passed up. It also allows me to read FAR more than I'd be able to afford otherwise. I haven't set my ereader down since I got it, and I read a good 2-3 novels a week.

Also, on ebook piracy:
http://www.nautilus-solar.net/SandyGunfox/

>> No.1170791

I never pirate books, for a simple reason - I want the physical copy. I love the feel of paper in my hands. And hell no, I'm not gonna print that shit.

>> No.1170792

If only there was this magical place where you could get books for free!

>> No.1170795

I feel that 'e-books' are worthless, and I can only read real books.
It's just stupid and crap. THe majority of lit are against e-books.

>> No.1170798

the only books worth reading are all made by dead authors anyways

>> No.1170799

>>1170795get a $60 book in a matter of seconds
>ALL OF /lit/ IS AGAINST EBOOKS

only the mentally retarded of /lit/

>> No.1170804

>>1170792
libraries don't have a lot of books

and instead of waitings a few days/weeks for a copy to come in at your request, you could get an ebook in a matter of seconds

ebooks are easy to read, and getting cheaper as they get more popular


the only argument anyone on this board has is aesthetics, and they're paying money/waiting for it

ebooks win

embrace the future /lit/

>> No.1170806

>>1170804
I'LL JUST DEDICATE MY ENTIRE LIFE TO SOMETHING THAT I CANNOT LIVE OFF OF.

SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT FUTURE FOR THE BOOK INDUSTRY IF ALL EMBRACE PIRACY OF EBOOKS.

>> No.1170808

>>1170806ebooks = piracy

lol idiot

your average ebook reader user would still use DD services

I mean, if dumbshits on /lit/ still cannot find a good resource of pirated ebooks I doubt your soccer mom will

>> No.1170812

I'm not completely against eBooks - I'll download something if I can't find it - but reading off an eReader is incomparable to that of an actual book.

>> No.1170814

>>1170804
>libraries don't have a lot of books

A library is by definition a place with a lot of books.

>and instead of waitings a few days/weeks for a copy to come in at your request, you could get an ebook in a matter of seconds

You can just go in and get books they have there already. Reservations are not the only possible way to get a book from a library.

And even if it were the case that you had to wait for a book from the library every time, how would that make it more morally acceptable? You're still reading the book without the author being paid. The fact that it's moderately inconvenient for you to do so doesn't change that.

And what if you find a torrent of an ebook, but it takes a week to download because nobody's seeding? Is it then morally acceptable under your system?

>> No.1170817

>>1170808
I NEVER HAD PROBLEMS FINDING EBOOKS ONLINE...?

I STILL BUY JUST AS MANY BOOKS PRIOR TO GETTING MY KINDLE, SO I DON'T FEEL BAD FOR DOWNLOADING THINGS FOR FREE. IF, HOWEVER, I WASN'T BUYING ANY, THEN I WOULDN'T BE IN A POSITION TO BE SAYING ANYTHING RIGHT NOW.

>> No.1170821

>>1170814A library is by definition a place with a lot of books.

never lived outside the city huh

the expanse of an ebook server is larger than any library

>>1170814And what if you find a torrent of an ebook, but it takes a week to download because nobody's seeding? Is it then morally acceptable under your system?

don't use torrents, I use an FTP server that lets me download an ebook in seconds. in fact, even on torrents, since ebooks are usually under a fucking MEGABYTE, even a torrent with 1 seeder will get done quickly.

>You're still reading the book without the author being paid.

The authors of the books I read are all dead. Have been for years, and years.

>> No.1170827

If you think book piracy is immoral because the author doesn't get paid, that also rules out the following:

*Libraries.
*Used book stores.
*Borrowing books from someone.
*Sex with women.

>> No.1170830

>>1170821

>the expanse of an ebook server is larger than any library

Find me an ebook server with more books than the Library of Congress and I'll an hero on camera.

>> No.1170837

>>1170830
Well, I cannot do that. But to any logical person, the LOC counts as an exception no? A dedicated ebook database has more books than your usual library. But hey, give it time. As ebooks gets pushed more and more hopefully people will see the value in digitizing more and more books.

Then you'll hang yourself :)


anyways, what's really funny to me is that most people on /lit/ use "WELL ONLY HIPSTERS USE EBOOK READERS!" when everyone I talk to only use real books because they look down on it for the same ignorance and aesthetic choice many people on here have.

I know a handful of people with e-readers, and they use it for nothing but reading. And in the end, this is where the beauty of e-readers shine. I don't give a fuck about the texture of the book, or how funky it smells. I just wanna read

>> No.1170855

Ehh, I prefer real books. I'm so anal about damaging a 15 dollar soft cover, I know I would dread taking a 200 dollar machine anywhere. Also, I like having different books with covers, dust jackets, etc. I know its pretty irrelevant, but I like it. Also, when World War 3 destroys civilization, I will still be able to read.

>> No.1170856
File: 66 KB, 534x654, kindlerage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1170856

>>1170837

NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE! You've upset him!

I hope you feel really bad!

>> No.1170858

>>1170855I know I would dread taking a 200 dollar machine anywhere

guess you don't take a phone or a laptop anywhere too huh

>> No.1170862

If you already own the physical book, then go ahead and pirate the ebook. I fucking hate how they don't give you it free when you buy the hardback or whatever.

>> No.1170863

>>1170858
I don't own a laptop because I have no need for one, and my phone was 50 bucks dude.

Geez, don't get offended or anything. I never said they were bad. My friend has one and I find it rather neato. Just not something for me. Coolio?

>> No.1170864

>>1170863
no

i dont tolerate you 420 erryday hipsters

>> No.1170867

>>1170864
Hipster? I wear Kohl's brand clothes, my favorite bands are all pretty well known, and my favorite books are House of Leaves and Frankenstein. I'm pretty unhipster dude.

I'd get high erryday if I could, but a g runs about 100 bucks here in Japan.

>> No.1170887

ebook viewing equipment will more than likely fall to ~50USDin the near future.

Considering the cost of a brand new book in hardcover can be from 25USD to 50USD, everyone opinions about kindles and nooks are retarded.

e-ink using machines are hardier than any paper book, so quit back-pedaling to justify a paper fetish

>> No.1170890

>>1170887
Whats with you dudes in I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG. Man, no one is trying to say ebooks are bad, at least I'm not. I just don't like them. Why can you not gracefully accept people have different preferences, despite what is the most efficient answer?

>> No.1170902

>>1170633


Wrong.

While it's true that your $20 isn't going to change much, there's so much more to the issue than that. If you start paying for the things you use, then others in your life will start the trend as well, and it will spread and people will not pirate as much.

Of course, you're going to try and say that's not true, and you're right, I have no way of knowing that for sure. However, it's obvious that things can spread like wildfire on a massive social level... so we'll see.

>> No.1170919

>>1169762
moral relativism up in this bitch

>> No.1170938

ITT: Trust-fund babies who don't know how to work the interwebs.

>> No.1170948

Real books > fake electronic words on a plastic screen
Enjoy your inauthentic, alienated, plastic, hollow existence.

>> No.1170958

>>1170948

You can't fake electronics.They either work or they don't. The point of words is not to possess them, but to convey an idea, express an emotion, or, in your case, demonstrate how poorly formed your opinion is. So, what if the words are formed via an electrically charged display rather than a piece of paper dyed in a static pattern? How does that lessen the impact of the authors intent? If anything, by becoming even more easily transmitted and disseminated, the effectiveness of that impact is increased. If you value books as a commodity, something that you have purchased as a way to achieve membership in some exclusive "club" that not everyone can join without the proper receipts, then to apply an overused phrase, you're just some hipster faggot and you should go die in a fire.

>> No.1171014

>>1170958
Beautiful post, sir.

>> No.1171032

What are authors going to do when books are free? Book signings lol?

Because at least for musicians you'd still pay for the live concert.

>> No.1171042

Books shouldn't be free, because they are labor intensive. Same goes for movies and music. People have dedicated significant amounts of their time to creating these for your enjoyment, and they should be compensated as such.

That doesn't stop me from pirating all of the above, however. I make no excuses for it, and I'm not ashamed.

>> No.1171051

>>1171042
The creative arts aren't "labour". Having self-expression as your job is the easy life. They should have to take up a day job, most of greatest artists had to anyway since they weren't so popular in their time.

>> No.1171057

>>1171051
Your argument is woefully ignorant. Easy life? Are you fucking insane?

>> No.1171061

>>1171057
Please don't respond to trolls.

>> No.1171062

>>1171057
pro-tip: most people would rather do art for a living than hard labour.

what you smoking?

>> No.1171067

>strawmans, strawmans everywhere

Yes, all book readers who don't own kindles are total hipsters who just read physical books to look cool and shit.

>> No.1171068

I don't do it myself but I have no problem with it.

All good writers are dead or willdie soon, therefor buying a book does not support them but only the publishers and maybe the ancestors but not the ones who wrote the book I bought.

I would pirate books too but I hate ebooks or better said when I'm reading one I open my browser ever 5 minutes to look something up in the internet. I need to shut down my pc to read the right way without interruption.
Ereaders are nothing for me aswell.

>> No.1171070

I pirate books and I hate myself for it. There is no excuse or justification for what I do, and I find it morally repugnant.

I also pirate films, music and tv shows, and have never felt any guilt about that. I don't know why, but books are somehow different. Film/ tv studios make plenty of money from their products in the first place, but most musicians (or at least the ones I like to listen to) certainly don't, so it's probably got nothing to do with money. (However, I will pay to see my favourite bands live and pick up CDs/ shirts at gigs, which is perhaps motivated by guilt.)

My best guess about why I hate pirating books so much is that it's something to do with the creativity of it; I generally feel that a lot more creative effort went into writing a novel than creating an album, or producing a film or tv show. Whether or not that's true, that probably comes into it. Getting a book published is an enormous achievement, and I feel authors don't get the respect and reward they deserve.

However, being an impoverished student, if I want to read, I have no choice, so I will unfortunately have to continue my piracy until I can afford to buy the books I enjoy.

>> No.1171072
File: 6 KB, 268x188, AnthBrax.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1171072

>>1171068
>Ereaders are nothing for me aswell
Oh really!?

Personally I just find the prices are too high right now but maybe i seem to miss a crucial difference between e-reading & books.

>> No.1171074

>>1171062
Does that have anything to do with how difficult it is?

I'm sure writers or painters or poets or whatever derive a huge amount of satisfaction from their work, especially if it was difficult to achieve.

>> No.1171077
File: 35 KB, 570x352, cave-bookshelf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1171077

>>1171072
Physical books = excuse to have crazy looking bookshelves

>> No.1171087

>>1171074
God's sake. If they want money they can do a high salary but stressful job instead.

The reception & satisfaction of creating something beautiful should be enough for them. It also takes away the temptation to alter their work for commercial reasons. I don't know why you think they should be entitled to earning money from the audience for this.

>> No.1171116

>>1171087
Replying to wrong post?

If you mean to reply to >>1171070, then I don't think they necessarily deserve money by default for having a book published. I was intending to refer to writers of 'great' books, however you choose to define that, not hacks like Clancy, Cussler etc..

However, if I enjoy a book, I feel, for my own peace of mind, I should show my appreciation to the author. If I knew them personally, I would hug them or give them a cookie or something, but since I don't, the only option left to me is to help them make a living out of providing enjoyment, be it edited for commercial reasons or not.

Just to make myself clear, I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea of editing something to make money. A book should be published the way the writer wants it to be published.

I do agree with you that the joy of creating something beautiful should be enough for an author, so think of it this way: I pay for a book I love so that the author can write more books instead of writing as a hobby and needing a job to make ends meet. I'm investing in my own future enjoyment.
Of course, I'm not, since I don't actually pay for books because I can't, but I would like to, and that's my justification.

>> No.1171121

>>1171116
Well I think that's where a pay-what-you-want model would be best.

That way the superior writers are rewarded as people with only a shallow interest in books would just pay nothing while the more appreciative fans would pay what they can.

>> No.1171127

>>1171121
I'm ok with this.

Agreement and acceptance of terms.

>> No.1171137

Wrong on so many levels.

Though I'm a hypocrite as I pirate music, which some might say isn't much different from pirating books. But it is, just because I find it so much more convenient to read a paper copy of a book than a digital copy, and it's much easier to listen to a pirated digital copy of an album (in good quality mind you) than it is to buy a CD.

>> No.1171138

I'm older than alla you put together. When I was a kid paperbacks cost like a buck fiddy. I was working in a bookstore in the 80s when Bright Lights Big City came out. The publisher tried an experiment: since the book's demographics was basically the same 20-somethings that were buying those newfangled compact discs, market the book in a similar way. Flashy packaging; put it out as a paperback first edition rather than hardcover first; and raise the price to increase the profit margin. So while as a first edition it was cheaper than most first editions--being paperback--it was bigger and way more expensive than your average paperback.

Unfortunately, it was a huge success. So suddenly the $12.95 paperback was a viable commodity. But instead of replacing the hardcover--the more expensive edition--in the market, it displaced the traditional paperback: the cheaper edition.

Short story long, I refuse to pay $19.95 for a fucking paperback. Absolutely refuse. So I buy 99% of my books used. The other 1% I download. And since I'm a graphic designer who used to work designing books, I usually make one-off editions of the books I download. I also give these editions as gifts, which between you and me has actually raised my ability to get laid by an order of magnitude or two. So piracy can get you sex.

>> No.1171141
File: 9 KB, 341x341, 1284304946007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1171141

>>1171138
>I also give these editions as gifts, which between you and me has actually raised my ability to get laid by an order of magnitude or two. So piracy can get you sex
Sounds fun.

>> No.1171154

If I could afford it, I would buy books and most of my music. Fuck paying for movies though, those dickheads get payed too much. However, since I am a poor as shit student, I'll keep stealing.

>> No.1171180

>>1171138

Oh and point being, that vastly inflated profit margin does NOT go to the writer, except for a handful of bestselling authors with the market clout to make demands. I have several friends--uh, 4 off the top of my head--who make their living as published authors of books. One of them is a perennial bestseller you've all read but who still doesn't have the King-Rowling-Meyer clout to make unusual royalty demands. That jump in profit from the $2.95 paperback to the $12.95 paperback just goes to enable big publishers to buy out and coopt little publishers, and continue the destructive conglomeration of big money publishing that pushes non-mainstream literature further and further into the self-publishing hinterlands. Let's hope the resulting fragmentation of the fringe market will result in something more interesting than just the poverty of serious writers. I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

>> No.1171187

>>1171180
I assume you're a champion of e-books over books by this post?

>> No.1171206

>>1171187

No I hate e-books. First of all, at least for now, this limits the market even more severely. Hopefully that will change, but for now the books I tend to read don't tend to be available as e-books.

The gasmic feeling you get from sneezing your way through a pile of any-book-fifty-cents discards at the back of a used book store to find a book you'd given up on every finding a copy of will never be replicated electronically. See that's the thing. Sure, books become unavailable, out of print. But somewhere out there there's a moldy copy of it waiting to be unearthed by a deserving pilgrim. It's not like I'll eventually find a copy of Salka Valka or Sirk on Sirk or The Man Who Held the Queen to Ransom and Sent Parliament Packing if I just keep rummaging through gutenbeg.org. But I have found all three books in used book stores. Musty, brokebacked, disintegrating--but now I have them and can read them.

Wake me up when they're available for your kindle.

>> No.1171219

like every other form of piracy, i dont care

>> No.1171224

>>1171206
I don't mean for rarities, which is all you cover in this post.

I mean that there's less need for a publisher if an author releases their stuff as an ebook. They don't need the financial backing to have all those pages printed, its gives more choice to the customer such as paying what they want & maybe a choice of formats & lastly easier to distribute.

The only advantage I see in books is the novelty of its smell & nostalgia shit.

>> No.1171240

>>1171206
>The gasmic feeling you get from sneezing your way through a pile of any-book-fifty-cents discards at the back of a used book store to find a book you'd given up on every finding a copy of will never be replicated electronically. See that's the thing. Sure, books become unavailable, out of print. But somewhere out there there's a moldy copy of it waiting to be unearthed by a deserving pilgrim.

people like this are the same types who buy audiophile equipment.

no one gives a shit about your niche markets, and if you wanna keep it around then expect to be charged more

>> No.1171251
File: 6 KB, 400x213, flac.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1171251

>>1171240
It's not even an older generation thing, it transcends that (pic related).

>> No.1171287

>>1171224
one problem with this is the role of editors. many readers don't realize the major contributions to finished works accomplished by literary agents and editors who have furthered the field.

it's like the difference between the influx of terrible 90's indie films who didn't have seasoned camera men...though that did lead to major changes in nearly all aspects of film making due to newer perspectives. i'm unsure whether direct comparisons between the industries are fair, though, as writers have traditionally had fewer barriers to experimenting.

i do know that genre fiction has suffered greatly since self-publishing has been available.

>> No.1171344

I won't say I've never done it, though the only books I've really gotten this way are D&D supplements, and if you know how those work, you understand why I don't feel too guilty over that.

That said, I sympathize with the other side entirely on this one. It sucks that they spend effort and money creating and publishing these things, and then people can steal them with complete ease. Hell, it's so easy people don't even feel remotely bad about it.

The thing that disgusts me is the entitlement culture it has started (or expanded upon). I see people on 4chan and other sites all the time who abhor the notion that they should actually have to pay for a computer game or novel.

And it's a bad trend. The more people steal, the less the producers make, the less they are willing to take chances and build the industry. Maybe they'll figure out better ways to protect video games, music, and movies in the future, but books? There's no electronics at the root of them, just text.

TL;DR - Book piracy is a massive detriment to literature. As in all things, the cheap fucks and douchebags ruin it for everyone else.

>> No.1171362

>>1171224

You can't arbitrarily dismiss one aspect of reality and unrealistically overemphasize another just to make an obscure point.

Reality: rare books are real, and are obviously necessary. Think of the scattered, nebulous pool of rare books as a kind of fragmented Library of Alexandria. See the thing is every time we "upgrade" to the next cool way to distribute information, older information storage systems become obsolete. What would you do with an album, for example, whose only surviving copy was on 8 track? See, the problem with electronic storage systems is that the software needs working hardware to work. What would you do with a stack of IBM computer cards from the 60s? How would you extract that information?

Words on a page is pure software; no hardware needed. Or at least, the wetware that's necessary to download it evolves in parallel.

But with every new platform, titles get weeded out. I'm a way bigger movie geek than lit geek. Roughly 10% of all the movies ever made are available on DVD. Where does that leave us? If you're interested in more than Transformers II and Family Guy, you need to have a working VCR. If you're even more hardcore about your movies, you'd also need several different formats of projector hardware.

For all that progress in information distribution is touted as, well, progress, on a practical level it's often more regressive than progressive, accessibility-wise. At least at first.

>> No.1171399

>>1171240

Yeah um no. Way to miss the point. The dusty sneezy part was not the valuable part of that scenario homes. It was finding a copy of a book that is not--and may never become--available electronically. The gasm in my little story was not achieved through mold, but through acquiring a specific piece of information. I don't give a fuck what format it's in, as long as it's accessible. Salka Valka? Not available in any format that does not require digging through dusty piles. [Whatever]-phile niche you want to mention is irrelevant; the only relevant "niche" is great lit that no one has gotten around to OCRing yet.

>> No.1171418

>>1171362
>See, the problem with electronic storage systems is that the software needs working hardware to work.

No, actually they don't. Hardware can be emulated.

>What would you do with a stack of IBM computer cards from the 60s? How would you extract that information?

That's not really comparable to modern computer data storage, since data is now infinitely transferrable and standardized to the point of being hardware independent.

>> No.1171427

>>1171399
>I don't give a fuck what format it's in
>already said "I hate e-books"
You get the book OCR'd lazyfag. Public Domain yet?

>> No.1171453

>>1171427

Lit: where people can't read for comprehension.

Obviously I hate e-books as a trend, not as a medium. E-books means, for now, a limited number of available titles. That's the part I hate.

I don't give a fuck what format what I'm reading is in; content is content. But e-books is not for me until there's a LOT more content available, and a lot more obscure content.

>> No.1171461

>>1171418

You're comparing within a medium--modern computer data storage. I'm talking about between media. Paper to digital is a greater gap than this kind of digital to that kind of digital.

>> No.1171465

I feel pretty good about it,
you are depriving the editor of money, not the writer.