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11650343 No.11650343 [Reply] [Original]

Anyone else actually read this? I was expecting some really whiny regurgitation of the same shit every black writer says, but I thought he had a new and unique view on race, that I'm glad I read. He wasn't just saying what everyone says and he actually brought a new point-of-view to the table. His prose is also pretty great, overall happy I read this, and it's a very quick read. Anyone else have thoughts about this? Please don't just turn into /pol/ shit please.

>> No.11650449

>>11650343
No one?

>> No.11650461

>>11650343
>>11650449
Sorry, but this really isn't the place. Think you're better off on plebbit, my friend. This board is traditionalist, and we value whiteness above all. Marxism should stay elsewhere

>> No.11650465

>>11650343
I just don't want to read about race anymore. I know it's there, it's ever present, yes, but can't we discuss more important things? I mean, fuck sake, how many times must the same book be written on the souls of black folk?
just go away, dammit, and keep your damn race shit to yourself.

>> No.11650475

>>11650465
Well, I actually think if you read this book, you would agree with a lot of Coates's points. From my reading he seems anti-race.

>> No.11650480

>>11650475
>you would agree with a lot of Coates's points.
I'm redpilled, kid

>> No.11650485

>>11650475
>anti-race
Oh here we go.
>race don't real, nigga. evolution doesn't affect humans, homie

>> No.11650495

>>11650485
Evolution works over millions of years. The work of evolution on human races would be negligible, and is more about culture than anything else.

Also
>inb4 Muttmerican thinking he's white

>> No.11650534

>>11650343
American nigger writers are the fucking absolute worst. There are a lot of good black writers but not one is American. They are incapable of writing about anything else other than whining about made-up nigger bullshit.

>> No.11650543

>>11650495
You're a straight-up fucking retard, bruh.

>> No.11650549

>>11650461
not this

>>11650465
this

>> No.11650565

>>11650485
If you read the book it's more nuanced, but it's not as basic as most literature on race.

>> No.11650582

>>11650543
Wrong.

>> No.11650584

>>11650534
>They are incapable of writing about anything else other than whining about made-up nigger bullshit.
I also am tired of of the same book being written but like I said in the first post, this one is different from most.

>> No.11650590

>>11650465
This 2bh. It's all so tiresome. Maybe all the increased race-baiting in the media and by politicians will have the opposite effect and make everyone stop caring through exhaustion of the topic?

>> No.11650592
File: 577 KB, 600x580, 1534588814178.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11650592

>>11650543
Ha ha you actually are from America, aren't you? Pathetic.

You don't know the first thing about evolution. You know it exists, vaguely, and apply it to humans without understanding what that would entail. It takes millions of years for evolution to make large changes, whereas humanity has been around only briefly. The races spread over the earth unlike any other animal in the history of the world, in a much shorter time span than would ever have been possible by other animals. Mankind conquered the planet in a short time span. So short, that there are barely any differences between someone in the Old or New World.

Human evolution has been put off into cultural/technological evolution. We are still, in essence, primitives, just with fancy computers making us believe we're something more.

Also you're not white.

>> No.11650728

>>11650495
>>11650592
Literal dog breeds vary in behavior and intelligence but your stupid fucking monkey brain actually believes that humans that evolved on different continents are exactly the same on the inside.

>> No.11650746

>>11650592
then why black man have big pee pee but chinese man have little pee pee

>> No.11650770

>>11650582
Nope.

>>11650584
>author
Nope.

>>11650592
>if i write a bunch of fagshit and add an image i'll have more credibility
Nope, and I'm Austrian, you filthy chimp.

>> No.11650778

>>11650770
Have you read it?

>> No.11650809

>>11650584
>probably hasn't read five books by black people
>still bitches about how they're all the same

/pol/ is cancer

>> No.11650820

>>11650809
I actually think a lot of books written by black authors lack new ideas, excepting the pic, but the fact that so many people on /lit/ only pretend they've read the books being discussed and still give their opinions is obnoxious.

>> No.11650839

>>11650809
I'll read something by a black author when they write something that doesn't revolve around their race.

>> No.11651055

>>11650728
Dogs go through about 4 generations before humans go through 1 and they were specifically bred for their desireable traits. Not disagreeing with you necessarily, environment plays a huge factor in human behavior, but so does only being a few generations removed from when people who look like you were enslaved

>> No.11651069

give me a quick rundown

>> No.11651096

>>11651069
>ayy whitey beez evil

>> No.11651143

>>11651096
No you fucking retard. You've never read the book.
>>11651069
It's written as a letter by the author to his son and gives an autobiographical account about how he came to his standing on race, and I think his position is pretty fresh and interesting. Only like 150 pages, super quick read.

>> No.11651149

>>11651143
does he write about even a single thing that has nothing to do with his physical complexion?

>> No.11651155

>>11651143
can you just summarize the position? does it really need 150 pages? we don't read here on /lit/ you realize, especially me, who is a mulatto, and don't want to hear yet another "clever" variation of the same god damn position on race every god damn new black person with a fucking education writes.
i can't wait til i write my story, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with race, and i could fill it to the brim with thematic allusion in racial antagonism and blah blah blah blah blah, but i'm going the route of the higher mind, the low hanging fruit of our fartsmelling ancestors is all too brusque and dull for me now, and i'd rather discuss how to find the proper boot size and good shoulder workouts than race one more god damn fucking time.

>> No.11651189

it sucks but its like 150 pages written in prose even a dropout from a failing inner city school can blaze through, just read it and get it over with, easiest woke cred in the woke canon

>> No.11651195

>>11651189
>t. coates trying to get people to read his damn book
jesus christ dude, i didn't think this actually happens, but you're a legit shill aren't you?

>> No.11651198

>>11650343
I've never read Between the World and Me, but I find your post funny because Coates is often contrasted with Baldwin, because Coates does the exact opposite of what you describe in BtWaM.

>> No.11651199

>>11650343
I just read this and I'm still trying to figure out if this ta-nehisi coloured fellow was supposed to represent the concept of the noble savage? Also, who was the chap who wrote it under alias? quite a funny fellow, very convincing negro style writing.

>> No.11651206

i'm gonna read some more evelyn waugh instead tyvm

>> No.11651213

>>11651155
>can you just summarize the position?
In my reading, Coates is saying that race does not cause racism, but that racism causes race. Basically by creating categories for people those categories fill themselves. Coates meets a group of black nationalists but doesn't agree with the idea that "blackness" is valid as a concept. By ascribing the joys of his life to his blackness he is removing his individuality and giving himself up to a collective. He at the same time comes to realize that while race is only existant in its observance, he cannot dismantle opression, and racism is simply a fact of the world he lives in. He thinks it is wrong to divide people in any way besides individuals but realizes that his ideal is unachievable. Because he understands that the world won't change for him, and he can't change the world, he decides the best idea is to continue on as a 'conscious citizen of the terrible and beautiful world.' He also places some of the blame on the black community, which was refreshing. It's almost pseudo-absurdist, and living in a racial world is his Sysiphean task, but by accepting the issues with the world he can accept it's beauty, in the book seen through his faith, his wife and son. Of course he goes more in depth in the book, and there's a lot of other themes being discussed.
>does it really need 150 pages?
Yeah. The prose is very good too.
>>11651198
>because Coates
Did you mean Baldwin, here? I did read that the two were kind of opposed in their ideas, haven't read Baldwin however.

>> No.11651246

>>11651155
Not the OP. I read it a few months ago and the thing that sticks with me is the phrase "people who believe themselves to be white".
He is pointing out that back in Europe, we would have believed ourselves to be of different races, but here in America we believe ourselves to be the same race, the white race, to distinguish ourselves from (primarily) black people.
It's also autobiographical. He writes a lot about his experiences at Howard and how they shaped his attitudes about black history

>> No.11651256

>>11651246
he stole that phrase from baldwin, dude is such a hack

also the part about howard (from which he never graduated) was embarrassing as he lists all kinds of wacky black nationalist kangz crap like cheik anta diop tier bullshit, clearly he did not receive a quality education, maybe he should have attended a more diverse school

>> No.11651260

>>11651246
>He is pointing out that back in Europe, we would have believed ourselves to be of different races, but here in America we believe ourselves to be the same race, the white race, to distinguish ourselves from (primarily) black people.
Huh, interesting read. I thought the people who believe themselves to be white are the Dreamers he references at the end of the book, black people who believe they can ascend blackness. That read is pretty cool though, adds a whole new layer. Thanks for actually contributing to some sort of discussion.

>> No.11651262

>>11651213
the sad thing is that it must still revolve around race. has he written anything that doesn't?
nothing you said really seems groundbreaking as a concept, and I'm not saying that just to be a hyperbolic asshole.
Let me know when he writes a book that allows him to write a book that isn't about race. The theme has been tackled and tackled again, so far to the point of it perpetuating itself for its own commercial sake, rather than the genuine atrocities that may occur for the sake of race to begin with.

I fear the real key here is to be able to excise this tumor of race from the mind just long enough to peer out at the real world for a little while, and abandon for just a moment the physical plane, and really dive into some more interesting and entrenched topics. i think the poisonous seed of race has dulled the senses of far too many of these black authors, and i really hope they escape some day. I know I will, but I won't call myself a black author, my race will not be apparent in any sense from my writing, because i, as an identity, should be absent from my work, if i besmirch my work with myself, i am no better than mr bumblefuck writing his genre fiction with his own shit all across the wall.

>> No.11651269 [DELETED] 

>>11651260
>reading between the world and me as optomistic
>not knowing about the "construction of the white race" even on a white nationalist social media site

pseud much wow

>> No.11651287

You don't have to be a fucking /pol/lack to think Coates is shit. Most economic Marxists, black nationalists, traditionalists, and the list goes on, see him for what he is:

A sop for upper middle class white bugmen and women to congratulate themselves for their "correct" morality while Coates pretty much does jack shit to address the neoliberal globalist system that erodes not only black identity and pride, but all identity other than that as a soulless consumer.

He can go fuck himself.
My fantasy is that the New Black Panthers, tankies, Christian Trads and the alt-right put aside their differences for just one day to join hands in delivering a righteous ass-whupping to him and a bunch of white basedboy beardymen. "progressives".

>> No.11651292

>>11651256
>he stole that phrase from baldwin
The book is partly a response to Baldwin, so it would make sense they share terminology
>also the part about howard (from which he never graduated) was embarrassing as he lists all kinds of wacky black nationalist kangz crap
I read that as he disagreed with the "kangz" stuff, and there's even a segment where he proves an issue with black nationalism, that they see themselves as the helpless victim and the strong hero at the same time. I thought he was saying they were too race obsessed.

>> No.11651295

>>11651269
I don't think it's optimistic, it's pretty bleak.

>> No.11651318

>>11651262
>has he written anything that doesn't?
I don't know, haven't read his other stuff. If you don't want to read about race, don't read about it. I just subjectively thought in my own opinion that it was pretty good and relatively surprising in the stance it took because of how much of a meme Coates is. I just wanted to talk about a book I just read, that's all, I don't want to debate race or its legitimacy as an artistic subject.

>> No.11651346

>>11651318
is this like the first black non-fiction you've read that's critical of america or something? in college i read all the black revolutionary shit from the 60s, and compared to that coates is a political pantywaist and a blatant pseud

>> No.11651431

>>11651346
No, I just was surprised at how nuanced it was conpared to all the shitposting about him.

>> No.11651449

>>11651431
what exactly was nuanced about it? there was absolutely no self-criticism or self-awareness

>> No.11651465

>watches the equalizer once
kill yourself

>> No.11651493

>>11651318
hmm, it's almost like no matter what you do it's going to turn into a racially charged bullshit conversation that gets no one anywhere, and you end up pissing everyone off and defending your position instead of actually talking about what you wanted to talk about, and you feel exhausted and we do, and it's all because you're pointing your mental exertions towards probably the most obnoxious theme in existence.

>> No.11651523
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11651523

>>11651493
>it might just go away if I hiss and pant enough about how very exasperating all of it has been

>> No.11651575

>No, I won't go back to Africa, I will stay in white countries
that's the tl;dr that matters

>> No.11651598

>>11651256

Baldwin is trash and Coates is even more trash...He is basically a Tumblr-tier writer.

>> No.11651604

>>11651287

This.

He is an organ grinders trick monkey, except less entertaining and cute.

>> No.11651638

>>11650343

I read this and still don't know what the fuck he really means by the "dream." Is it perpetuated racist ideas? All in all, that book had some interesting moments but it felt like a hot steaming pile of shit by the end

>> No.11651652

>>11651246
This is absolutely bullshit. As someone who is actually European, the German race exists, the Dutch race exists and the Italian race exists but all of them are considered white in Europe and they have always been considered white. Please don’t read some black American talking about Europe and accept it as truth.

>> No.11651666

>>11650592
Changes can occur quick as fuck through domestication, and culture can be a hugely disruptive force regarding sexual selection. Meaningful differences between races exist physically, why couldn't they exist cognitively?

>> No.11651683

>>11651652
Nobody in Europe thinks of himself as 'white', though. It's a New World concept, it's about as European as your local McDonalds.

>> No.11651714

>>11651683
Yes we do. You clearly are not European.

>> No.11651935

>>11651449
>no self-criticism or self-awareness
I disagree, the book is very much about Coates's changing ideas. But agree to disagree. I just mean that all I heard of Coates was "fuck wypipo" memes, and it turns out there's more to it than just basic white=bad. Apparently I'm the only one who thinks it's a good book so fuck me I guess.

>> No.11652077

>>11651935
i liked it

>> No.11652305

>>11650343
This is a pretty good criticism of his work: https://catalyst-journal.com/vol1/no4/between-obama-and-coates

>> No.11652325

>>11652305
This is even better:
http://takimag.com/article/ta_nehisi_coates_all_is_fog_steve_sailer/

>> No.11652335

His viewpoint isn't particularly unique. You could get the gist of it by spending ten minutes on twitter. His prose is grating and amounts to little more than a string of overwrought metaphors.

>> No.11652344
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11652344

>>11650495
>The work of evolution on human races would be negligible, and is more about culture than anything else.
Unscientific and ideology based.

>> No.11652353

>>11651213
>In my reading, Coates is saying that race does not cause racism, but that racism causes race.
If racism caused race, how did we know who to call a nigger? Was everyone the same colour until the people called nigger daily started turning darker and the people who said nigger a lot grew pale?

>> No.11652393

Will the muh individualism meme ever fucking die?

>> No.11652397

>>11650449
I've had it on my wishlist for a while, wouldn't mind picking up a copy sometime.

>> No.11652750

>>11652353
>Was everyone the same colour
Yes, we were. Skin colour has been evolved and lost based on where we settled.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10896812

>During the course of human evolution, skin pigmentation has evolved to afford protection against high levels of UVR while still permitting cutaneous production of vitamin D. Similar pigmentation phenotypes evolved repeatedly as the result of independent genetic events when isolated human populations dispersed into habitats of extremely low or high UVB. The gradient of skin color seen in modern human populations is evidence of the operation of two clines, one favoring photoprotection near the equator, the other favoring vitamin D production nearer the poles.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29606375

>If racism caused race
Racism is the way people are divided into races based on a political interpretation of their biological differences; it really is "people I don't like" aren't human.

>> No.11652783

>>11651213
seriously? he couldve saved himself the trouble and 30 years and just read the spook book if this is grand revelation

>> No.11652815

>>11652353
>how do we know who to call a nigger
We don't. Hence a black man can be told he is black when disliked and not white in order to undermine him (cf. Shaun King).

We also do not know how to distinguish (testament to the fact that how we distinguish has also been evolving) between Southern Europeans and Middle Easterners (which btw are just as caucasian as one another, caucausus being he region between Russia and Turkey)

>> No.11652821

>>11652815
>not white
That was meant to be not black

>> No.11653180

>>11651652
This might be (closer) to reality now, but historically it has not been the case. Not obly in terms of ethniticity, but also due to religion.

>> No.11653336

>>11650343
>american racialism idpol shit
fuck off

>> No.11653370

Let me take a guess, Its about how white people stole their culture and structurally oppress minorities(mostly black). This provides a sort of radical landscape for many black(some minorities maybe) to counter the powers that be. Also there's a whole chapter dedicated to Colin Kaepernick.