/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11616819]

What is the religious view of failed suicide attempts? Is redemption/forgiveness possible of a committed act that wasn't carried through?

[Anonymous No.11616820]

Anything can be forgiven so long as you truly repent.

[Anonymous No.11616840]

>>11616819
>>11616820
so what's the religious view on a successful suicide?

[Anonymous No.11616876]

>>11616820
Say a person having just commited suicide a la cutting oneself does repent and ask for forgiveness in as they are bleeding out, is this redeemed in the eyes of God? Where is the line then that makes a succesful attempt so sinful? Is it the act or the meaning behind it? (Sorry if my reasoning or understanding of theology is off.)

[Anonymous No.11616877]

>>11616840
it’s based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.11616886]

>>11616840
congratulations on a job well done

[Anonymous No.11616893]

>>11616840
Well, then you've done a sin and you can't repent for it, so...

[Anonymous No.11616907]

>>11616876
>Say a person having just commited suicide a la cutting oneself does repent and ask for forgiveness in as they are bleeding out, is this redeemed in the eyes of God
That's a pretty short time frame, not much time for an authentic repentance. You can't just say the words or think the though "I repent!"

[Anonymous No.11616910]

>>11616820
Killing a a child? Raping a baby?

[Anonymous No.11616911]

>>11616840
suicide is great

[Anonymous No.11616934]

>>11616910
People really like to downplay the importance of repentance and forgiveness, and exaggerate the need for revenge and cathartic bloodletting. In the end the scope of the crime doesn't matter: if you truly and genuinely regret what you did, wish for forgiveness, and will never ever repeat it, then at that point what good would it do to gun you down and send you to hell for eternity?

I'm not saying you're any likely to ever come back if you stuck your meat into an infant, but in theory it can happen, and we should let it happen if it does. Otherwise, you know, all the other baby-rapists are just going to run away and rape more babies, because they know no one's going to forgive them for it and they shouldn't even bother trying.

[Anonymous No.11616938]

>>11616907
Is God concerned with the time that passed between act and regret? Maybe Im giving a pretty autistic example but in a scenario where a sincere regret appears in the person wouldnt God ”detect” the authenticity of his repentance?

[Anonymous No.11616941]

>>11616819
Many people are of the opinion that God is given even more happiness by saving the souls of repentant sinners.

[Anonymous No.11616950]

>>11616941
>there are people who claim to know the mind of god
religious people are such arrogant fuckers

[Anonymous No.11616964]

>>11616950
>catholics are such arrogant fuckers
ftfy

[Anonymous No.11616980]

>>11616938
I'm just saying it's not likely that you slit your wrists with the intention of ending your life and the next second you are genuinely remorseful for your act against God

[Anonymous No.11616987]

>>11616980
The likelihood of it happening is irrelevant. The question is that if it does happen, and if it's genuine, then should it be accepted. And the answer is yes, of course.

[Anonymous No.11617001]

>>11616934
I understand this, but isn't part of the point surely that you ultimately have free will and making a decision to do something as heinous as that mean you therefore go to Hell? And does what you say mean that if I committed the act twice and then truly repented it'd be too late? I'm not Christian or even religious so am just genuinely interested and the point you make is a good one, but yeah I guess what I asked above

[Anonymous No.11617049]

>>11616987
t. pr*testant

[Anonymous No.11617084]

Anyone got any views on this topic from religions/spiritual thinkers other than christianty? (Equating ’going to hell’ to the stigma of x religion)

[Anonymous No.11617102]

>>11617001
It's true that we have free will, and that we sometimes make really bad decisions with terrible outcomes for ourselves and other people. We shouldn't take that lightly.

But we also learn. We grow, even after we've reached adulthood - all our lives. You're not the same person today as you were yesterday. That growth involves owning up to what you did in the past and realizing that, often, maybe you were kind of a dick. The growth involves taking all that dickishness, purging it out of you, then not doing it again. And us humans are such proud, stubborn creatures, that this self-realization is likely going to hurt. You'll have to live with yourself for it, for the rest of your life.

I don't think it should ever be too late. If we'd done something bad in our past and would like to repent for our sins, we would like ourselves to be forgiven too - and that means we should forgive all others, provided they truly mean it. Furthermore, as I said before, so long as that final doorway remains open, people might come along for it, think about what they've done, and not go for it again: bar it shut, and then there will be those who believe themselves unforgivable, and they will only go on deeper in and do even greater harm. No one would want that.

[Anonymous No.11617104]

>>11617001
You're destined for hell as it is. Raping a child doesn't make you more destined for hell if you were already going there in the first place
Repenting is a process of renewal, you're accepting the lifeline God's given you by dedicating your life to serving his will.

[Anonymous No.11617110]

>>11617084
forget which book I read it from but in pure land shin-buddhism, suicide is all right as long as you concentrate on the Amida Buddha when you kill yourself, but of course it is still frowned upon.
I had to do an analysis paper on Buddhism and killing in the context of the heike monogatari years ago

[Anonymous No.11617124]

>>11616987
Yeah, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike

[Anonymous No.11617125]

>>11616893
Plenty of time to repent even a successful one, depending on the method.

[Anonymous No.11617135]

>>11617125
I read somewhere that a lot of surviving jumpers started to regret immediately as they began to fall.

[Anonymous No.11617145]

>>11617135
That's just fear

[Anonymous No.11617155]

>>11617145
In this context it's pretty much the same thing. If you really did want to die, you wouldn't be afraid.

[Anonymous No.11617172]

>>11617155
no it is not your body will never accept death whole nature of body is to survive even if brain want's it or not

[Anonymous No.11617185]

>>11617172
Still, the survivors went on to tell others of their experience, and how it changed their lives and got them to get their shit together and not try suicide another time. If it were just a passing fear, a reflex of body, it wouldn't have left such a lasting impact - and it suggests that in many cases of those that did die, it's the same.

[Anonymous No.11617210]

Gotta think it’s better than succeeding

[Anonymous No.11617232]

>>11617185
statistics show that people who tried suicide but failed are more likely to repeat it so if people change after suicide attempt it's simply because they were able to change and the ones who didn't simply didn't

[Anonymous No.11617235]

>>11616840
Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.

Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. the Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

[Anonymous No.11617249]

>>11617235
exactly because God is love he will not consider it deadly sin if there was any psychological suffering or physical

[Anonymous No.11617277]

>>11617110
I suppose in a view in which rebirth is so central the life you are living now, in its current form, is in a way not as divine? Have a pretty hard time conceptualizing life as both holy yet replacable. Also mentioning the heike monogatari, worth a read?

>>11617235
If our own life is not ours to do with as we like; why have God granted us the opportunity for us to do so? Why are some illnesses allowed to be an exception to this rule when our feelings are subjective?

[Anonymous No.11617296]

>>11617277
>If our own life is not ours to do with as we like; why have God granted us the opportunity for us to do so?
Because free will is the most important thing. That, or it's what got us kicked out of Eden to begin with, and now God can't stuff us back into the box. Depends whom you ask.

[Anonymous No.11617300]

>>11616910
Yes. reminder God has infinite ability to forgive, but man has limited ability to genuinely repent.

[Anonymous No.11617318]

>>11616819
I know that many Protestants see suicide as a breaking of the fifth commandment, with further citation of Genisis 9:6. In short suicide is tantamount to murder. See Luther's Small Catechism, in the part explaining the ten commandments.

Catholicism also strictly forbids suicide seeing it as "contrary to love of the living God" (CCC 2281). If someone attempts to take their life, it is still sinful but the responsibility on behalf of the sinner can be mitigated by "Grave Pyschological disturbances, anguish, grave fear of hardship..." (CCC 2282). In short, tell all the details to a priest during confession. Like all mortal sins, it can be absolved through a sincere confession and performance of penance. If a loved one killed themselves successfully it may be comforting to read the full paragraph from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
>"We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives." (CCC 2283)


Hope this helped.

[Anonymous No.11617322]

>>11617296
or maybe, and here's a theory, this whole "skyking" nonsense is made up.

[Anonymous No.11617333]

>>11616950
Christianity is based on the idea that God gave direct revelation to man, so how is it arrogant to assert that he told us things of himself???

[Anonymous No.11617339]

>>11617322
does love exist? if yes then God exists as well because he is Love, does Love not exist? then God does not exist either. what's the highest form of Love? unconditional Love or agape.

[Anonymous No.11617342]

>>11617296
Are you arguing that a world with free will have to incorprate sins as an alternative? If God wanted total free will for man, then I should for example be able to jump over my house if that is my desire. The laws of physics prevent that, why wouldnt God create such a world were sinful acts are as impossible physically as the example above?
I guess you can argue that this line of reasoning is irrelevant in the world we find ourselves in, just curius is all.

>>11617318
Thank you for your contribution friend.

[Anonymous No.11617344]

>>11617339
love is just a chemical reaction in the brain

[Anonymous No.11617357]

>>11617322
From where do you see your values coming from? Do you buy into any spiritualital concepts or do you dismiss it entirely?
What do you turn to for guidance in its stead? Genuinely curious.

[Anonymous No.11617369]

>>11617342
>Are you arguing that a world with free will have to incorprate sins as an alternative? If God wanted total free will for man, then I should for example be able to jump over my house if that is my desire. The laws of physics prevent that, why wouldnt God create such a world were sinful acts are as impossible physically as the example above?
Physical and mental stuff are different. If we could jump over houses, then there would be no reason not to do it anyway. But if we could kill - and we can - we have reasons to why not to: it's a temptation we should avoid.

>>11617322
>>11617344
I argue under the premise given in the thread already: that God exists and he had some reason to make things the way they are. Whether he actually does or not is irrelevant, and you're adding nothing to the debate.

[Anonymous No.11617371]

>>11617357
science is a pretty good guide my dude and, of course, not being a dick because, really, who has the time?

[Anonymous No.11617373]

>>11617369
Why does anything matter if the premise is phony?

[Anonymous No.11617374]

>>11617373
If nothing matters, why are you even here?

[Anonymous No.11617382]

>>11617374
If nothing mattered I still probably wouldn't kill myself because it'd happen anyway and I like being happy

[Anonymous No.11617432]

>>11617373
>>11617382
painfully ignorant of our reality.

[Anonymous No.11617440]

>>11617277
>I suppose in a view in which rebirth is so central the life you are living now, in its current form, is in a way not as divine?
I wouldn't say that, considering there is a huge stress on the preciousness of life in all Buddhist sects.
Pure land is also bit stranger because it relies on the faith in the Amida Buddha for immediate rebirth in the pure-land, a special Buddha field wherein enlightenment is very easy.
It parallels Christianity so much that the first missionaries called it "the devil's christianity".
>the heike monogatari, worth a read?
Yes, definitely. I would call it favorably the Japanese Iliad. I suggest the abridged version by McCullough because the original is huge, and the version also has a rough abridgment of Genji which is the other of the two foundational japanese texts. If you want to get into other traditional japanese literature forms like kabuki or noh at least a passing familiarity in both is required as both draw from scenes of those stories very heavily. Classic plays like Matsukaze and Atsumori are two examples.

[Anonymous No.11617457]

>>11617432
fantastic post

[Anonymous No.11617466]

>>11617457
I wish this weren't a blue board so that I could cartoon watching bugmen like you my gallery of SU characters being shat on

[Anonymous No.11617494]

>>11617344
yes for humans that is true but does unconditional love that transcends and persists regardless of circumstance exist? it has to reveal itself because we only can feel reactions so we go to christ who claims to be God(unconditonal love that humans do not have) does he prove that he has unconditional Love by the life he lived? i think so because he lived until dying breath forgiving everyone no matter what they did to him.

[Anonymous No.11617501]

>>11617466
not an argument

[Anonymous No.11617511]

>>11617501
You haven't given a single argument in this thread yourself - just smarmy commentary. You're one to talk.

[Anonymous No.11617523]

>>11617511
whatever

[Anonymous No.11617709]

>>11617344
Obligatory pic related
>>11617494
big if true
>>11617457
>>11617501
>>11617523
Anon, you have to stop waifuposting. Please, you're only hurting yourself with these ideals

[Anonymous No.11617736]

>>11616819
What book is this from?

[Anonymous No.11617745]

>>11617736
The only acceptable response in this thread
saged

[Anonymous No.11617765]

>>11616950
12I thank himwho has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful,appointing me to his service,13though formerly I was a blasphemer,persecutor, and insolent opponent. ButI received mercybecause I had acted ignorantly in unbelief,14andthe grace of our Lord overflowed for me with thefaith and love that are in Christ Jesus.15The saying istrustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesuscame into the world to save sinners,of whom I am the foremost.16But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.

[Anonymous No.11617866]

>>11617371
Are you 16 years old?

[Anonymous No.11617881]

>>11617235
>We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
Absolutely beautiful

[Anonymous No.11618161]

>>11617866
prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.11618193]

>>11616840
It is altogether unlawful to kill oneself, for three reasons.

>1. Contrary to Natural Law & to Charity
First, because everything naturally loves itself, the result being that everything naturally keeps itself in being, and resists corruptions so far as it can. Wherefore suicide is contrary to the inclination of nature, and to charity whereby every man should love himself. Hence suicide is always a mortal sin, as being contrary to the natural law and to charity.

>2. Injury to the Common Good
Secondly, because every part, as such, belongs to the whole. Now every man is part of the community, and so, as such, he belongs to the community. Hence by killing himself he injures the community, as the Philosopher (Aristotle) declares (Ethic. v, 11).

>3. Sin Against God
Thirdly, because life is God’s gift to man, and is subject to His power, Who kills and makes to live. Hence whoever takes his own life, sins against God, even as he who kills another’s slave, sins against that slave’s master, and as he who usurps to himself judgment of a matter not entrusted to him. For it belongs to God alone to pronounce sentence of death and life, according to Deuteronomy 32:39, “I will kill and I will make to live.”

[Anonymous No.11618218]

>>11618193
based

[Anonymous No.11618236]

>>11618193
>everything naturally loves itself
prove it

[Anonymous No.11618266]

>>11618236
>God is Love
>God created and inhabits all things (Panentheism)
>Therefore everything loves itself

[Anonymous No.11618303]

>>11618236
Innate drives to maintain homeostasis of temperature, pH, mass etc.

[Anonymous No.11618407]

>>11618161
>i FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE XDDD dude just like dont be a dick xDDDDDDD lmao
Science by definition cannot answer questions of morality.