/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11585329]

Was it racism?

[Anonymous No.11585334]

>>11585329
no

[Anonymous No.11585362]

>>11585329
it was a great book

[Anonymous No.11585570]

Beautiful diction and imagery, but I found the whole thing really boring. Especially since the whole thing was dialogue. If you were to condense the theme down to it's core, it's not inherently racist, but in terms of the context it is presented, it is very racist.

[Anonymous No.11585883]

>>11585570
Please do Explain further

[Anonymous No.11585891]

>>11585329

CONRAD BTFO

[Anonymous No.11585901]

>>11585891
How is that book?

[Anonymous No.11586633]

>>11585329
Daily reminder this was written in English originally by a Polish man who didn't even speak English fluently until his 20's. There's hope for anyone.

[Anonymous No.11587696]

>>11586633
Oh shit really

[Anonymous No.11587701]

>>11586633
>>11585883

It's insane that he pretty much started writing this book after 2 years of being fluent in English. Other than perhaps the plot (which I personally found to be a bit of a drag) and the way in which he went about conveying the theme, the book is a literary masterpiece.

What I mean about the ways in which the themes were presented, he definitely dehumanises Africans through the way in which he portrays them. While he definitely denounces colonialism, he does this by almost portraying the Europeans as victims of colonialism. That by associating with Africa, Europeans are becoming just as "savage" as those African people. Rather than portraying African people to be just like Europeans, he took the other route by pretty much by conveying the idea that Europeans can be just as horrible as African people, which in theory is not a very nice thing. You can hold your reservations about "PC culture going to far" or "European master-race", but if we're really trying to take what the book says, it's the equivalent of that "I wish slavery never happened because I hate having all these black people in my country" argument. I would be using evidence from the novel, but I can't bring myself to open that book up again, because of how boring I found it to be, but that's just a matter of personal taste.

[Anonymous No.11587722]

>>11585570
For the period, it's crazily egalitarian. At most it's condescending to the African tribesmen, but their condition isn't portrayed as evil, they're just in contact with man's primeval nature, which the European protagonist himself feels. On the other hand, the introduction of European 'civilisation' is portrayed totally negatively.

[Anonymous No.11587780]

>>11587701
I think you should reread the beginning when the crew and Marlow are on the Thames.

>“And this also,” said Marlow suddenly, “has been one of the dark places of the earth.” [...] “I was thinking of very old times, when the Romans first came here [...] But darkness was here yesterday. Imagine the feelings of a commander of a fine—what d'ye call 'em?—trireme in the Mediterranean, ordered suddenly to the north; run overland across the Gauls in a hurry; put in charge of one of these craft the legionaries [...] Imagine him here—the very end of the world, a sea the colour of lead, a sky the colour of smoke, a kind of ship about as rigid as a concertina—and going up this river with stores, or orders, or what you like. Sand-banks, marshes, forests, savages,—precious little to eat fit for a civilized man, nothing but Thames water to drink. No Falernian wine here, no going ashore. [...] They must have been dying like flies here. Oh, yes—he did it. Did it very well, too, no doubt, and without thinking much about it either, except afterwards to brag of what he had gone through in his time, perhaps. They were men enough to face the darkness. And perhaps he was cheered by keeping his eye on a chance of promotion to the fleet at Ravenna by and by, if he had good friends in Rome and survived the awful climate. Or think of a decent young citizen in a toga—perhaps too much dice, you know—coming out here in the train of some prefect, or tax-gatherer, or trader even, to mend his fortunes. Land in a swamp, march through the woods, and in some inland post feel the savagery, the utter savagery, had closed round him—all that mysterious life of the wilderness that stirs in the forest, in the jungles, in the hearts of wild men. There's no initiation either into such mysteries. He has to live in the midst of the incomprehensible, which is also detestable." [...] “Mind, none of us would feel exactly like this. What saves us is efficiency—the devotion to efficiency. But these chaps were not much account, really. They were no colonists; their administration was merely a squeeze, and nothing more, I suspect. They were conquerors, and for that you want only brute force—nothing to boast of, when you have it, since your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others. They grabbed what they could get for the sake of what was to be got. It was just robbery with violence, aggravated murder on a great scale, and men going at it blind—as is very proper for those who tackle a darkness. The conquest of the earth, which mostly means the taking it away from those who have a different complexion or slightly flatter noses than ourselves, is not a pretty thing when you look into it too much.

Also, could you refrain from conflating authorial intent with Marlow's voice? The latter is very much problematised throughout the book, tying into the difficulty and impossibility of telling someone else's (Kurtz) story. The colonisers are epistemologically challenged.

[Anonymous No.11587787]

do we actually still have anti-racists on /lit/? Why is there a thread about 9th grade meme novels?

[Anonymous No.11587800]

>>11585329
No. Even if so - who cares? Different times.

[Anonymous No.11587848]

>>11587787

[Anonymous No.11587865]

>>11585329
I'd have to re-read it but I felt it took an empathising perspective on the slavery. Marlowe felt disgusted about how they were treated and being kept, right? At least that's how I've remembered it, but again I'll need to re-read it, there's no way I picked up on everything on my first reading of this one.