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/lit/ - Literature


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11559455 No.11559455 [Reply] [Original]

Books that will 'level you up'? Books with certain knowledge that will change you for the better basically. Also opinions on jung?

>> No.11559463
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11559463

>> No.11559469
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11559469

>>11559455

>> No.11559473

>>11559455
Jung was ahead of his time. Too advanced for a society that hails Lacan over him. Not entirely surprising given that his work requires personal mystical revelation to actually "get", and also months or years of dedication to dream analysis.

Return of Jung when. Why we on Return of Return of Freud?

>> No.11559474

>>11559455
Maps of Meaning
lol

>> No.11559508

>>11559473
>his work requires personal mystical revelation to actually "get"
cringe

>> No.11559529

>>11559508
have you read him? what do you think if you have?

>> No.11559549

>>11559529
I think he was on the right track trying to translate the east for the west, but I also think it's pointless

>> No.11559566

>>11559549
why is it pointless? Im wondering whether i should give up my time to read him or not

>> No.11559571

Just fucking read 7 Sermons of the Dead already

>> No.11559813

Infinite Rainbow
Gravity's Jest

>> No.11559833

>>11559813
please. please, I just want it to stop. please stop

>> No.11559871

>>11559455
Tractatus logico philosophicus

>> No.11560097

Heidegger sein und Zeit (beeing and time)
Also, Hegels Phenomenology of spirit

>> No.11560117
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11560117

>>11559455
>Books with certain knowledge that will change you for the better

Can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to be someone who believes that sophia and/or gnosis work this way. Clean your room.

>All these cringey nonironic Jungposters
He was a professional con-artist. And a brainlet.

>> No.11560129

>>11559455
the bhagavad-gita. dont be a pleb and read it on sanskrit. learning just enough for it is not as hard as you might think

>> No.11560134

>>11560129
Unironically? What would you recommend to learn just enough for the Gita? Do you recommend any commentaries?

>> No.11560137

A Guide for the Perplexed: Western Esotericism

>> No.11560142

>>11560117
yeah that picture guaratees everybody will take you seriously...

>> No.11560173

>>11560134
just read a translation, ffs.

>> No.11560177

>>11560129
>>11560173
lmao

>> No.11560276

>>11559455
Unironically the Culture of Critique.

>> No.11560288

>>11560276
People are reading the Culture of Critique.

>> No.11560293

>>11560276
People are critiquing the culture

>> No.11560300

>>11559871
can I read it if I haven’t started with the greeks?

>> No.11560327
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11560327

>>11559455
>Books that will 'level you up'? Books with certain knowledge that will change you for the better basically

>> No.11560332

>>11560300
Just read this instead: Probability Theory: The Logic of Science

>> No.11560353

>>11559455
Tao

>> No.11560354

Deleuze liked Jung more than Lacan. Is there any more proof that Jung is based?

>> No.11560360

The Bible

>> No.11560364

>>11560354
Trigger psychosis and then read the red book a few months later after the psychosis has passed.

>> No.11560365

>>11560360
brainlet

>> No.11560371

>>11560360
>implying that rag makes you change
Christianity seeks to bully and shame people into conforming to its doctrines, its ideas aren't a meaningful enough structure for anyone to rightfully choose without it being rammed down their throat and christians know it so they ram it down your throat harder.

>> No.11560383
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11560383

>>11559463
Complementary book is pic related

>> No.11560409
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11560409

>>11559455
>Books that will 'level you up'? Books with certain knowledge that will change you for the better basically.

>> No.11560487

>>11560409
>philofophy and fcienses

Why would I read ramblings of a retard with a speech impediment?

>> No.11560502

>>11559463
What am I in for?

>> No.11560512

>>11560409
>olde english

I literally cannot this or anything else from that era.

Olde English needs to be translated

>> No.11560519

>>11560487
Fucks to be you fpaftic

>> No.11560541

>>11560487
>>11560512
>>11560519

It's a long-s.
It's not old or even middle English, it went out of ſtyle in the 1940s ffs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s

ſtupid frogposters.

>> No.11560551

>>11559455
>books that will level you up
time and boredom.

>> No.11560555

>>11560541
How come it's "fciences" and not "fciencef" then? Either replace all the "s"es or fod off

>> No.11560556

A calculus textbook.

>> No.11560561

>>11560555
Jesus you brainlet, it says why in the wiki link

>> No.11560562

>>11560556
t. high schooler

>> No.11560568

>>11560561
No, the wiki if imprecife. It fhould be faying "but not at the end of the word".

>> No.11560593

>>11560117
This just in: anonymous man on a Korean dog-cooking website BTFOs the father of analytical psychology. More to come

>> No.11560595

>>11559469
'in search of the Miraculous' also

Indescribable tier mindfuck unlike anything else

>> No.11560597
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11560597

>>11560327

>> No.11560736

>>11559508
>cringe
Yeah I guess Jung's Red Book and Seven Sermons to the Dead just popped out of nowhere and his work wasn't heavily influenced by this time in his life. Definitely has absolutely nothing with achieving a certain psychological state most consider "mystical", for lack of a better term. Definitely cringe, understanding his work is cringe. I like it more when I can read a work and get it on a purely intellectual level, without ever having to apply the ideas to reality whatsoever. Ideas are best when they don't relate to the experience of life as it is lived.

>> No.11560754

>>11559455
Nitsch made me achieve gnosis desu

>> No.11560787

>>11560754
Missing a "z" there

>> No.11560798

>>11559455
The critique of pure reason, the amount of time you spend trying to understand what is going on will only make you a better man once you've succeeded

>> No.11560834

>>11560736
Absolute cringe. Nobody should hold it against me if I have not the slightest respect for all those Collegia philosophica secreta, but judge that the passing of time has quite rightly made a secret of these mysteries, by dumping them into the sea of oblivion; and that even if the writings of these philosophorum barbarorum were perserved by posterity, they would deserve to be sent ad loca secretiora right away, for superstitious idiocies belong in no better library.

>> No.11560861

>>11559455
just make different thread
why jung

>> No.11560871

>>11560798
lol this guy spent time on fucking books
when CHAD classmate bullied you in the school spent time on fucking girls

>> No.11560872

>>11560861
>why jung
just open your 3rd eye my man

>> No.11560907
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11560907

New Science by Giambattista Vico
The Great Thoughts
From Dawn to Decadence
The World of Yesterday
Ethnic Conflicts Their Biological Roots in Ethnic Nepotism
Understanding Human History: An Analysis Including the Effects of Geography and Differential Evolution
The Legitimacy of the Modern Age
Mind in Life: Biology, Phenomenology, and the Sciences of Mind
Trust: The Social Virtue and the Creation of Prosperity
The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature
Metaphor and Thought
The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World
Heuristics and Biases: The Psychology of Intuitive Judgment
The Great Chain of Being: A Study of the History of an Idea
The Ever-Present Origin
On Power: The Natural History of Its Growth
The Uniqueness Of Western Civilization
Emergence: From Chaos To Order
The Collapse of Complex Societies
The Wisdom Books: Job, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes
Nietzsche
The Waste Books
The Voice of the Eagle
Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World
The Roots of Coincidence
Phenomenology of Perception
On Human Conduct
Meeting the Shadow: The Hidden Power of the Dark Side of Human Nature
Man and People
The Idea of History

>> No.11560912

>>11560872
what about kneechee? Marx? Althusser? or even russell?
every philosopher's book has an ability of opening 3rd eye if you go enough
why has jung to be fetishize about this? what's your opinion?

>> No.11560943

>>11560912
People like him because he says there is something other than reason or faith that you should be paying attention to

>> No.11560952

>>11560834
>I haven't experienced something
>It is meaningless and doesn't matter
Never mind that Jung gives the individual a road map for how this all works psychologically. An experience readily available to all, life-changing to those who have it. Remain smugly set in your ignorance, all the more proof that Jung was too ahead of his time. Provides a theory based on reproducible experience, but those who choose not to have the experience decide themselves the smarter for it.

>> No.11560958

>>11560952
wash your penis

>> No.11560959

>>11560958
Peterson doesn't understand Jung.

>> No.11560965

>>11560959
>a random anonymous poster has a better understanding of Jung than a university professor
forgive me for being sceptical

>> No.11560972
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11560972

>>11560959
>literally devoted his career to studying Jung
>random anon claims he doesn't understand him

>> No.11560973

>>11560965
>a random anonymous poster has a better understanding of Jung than a university professor

Thats how 4chan works buddeh

>> No.11560989

>>11560117
not an anime

>> No.11560991

Euclid's Elements

>> No.11560993

>>11560965
Okay, let me rephrase it: Peterson's understanding of Jung is dogmatic af. The fact that he is the herald of this return to traditionalism shows this. By returning directly to Jung with basically zero evolution, it shows that he doesn't really get what Jung was talking about. If Jung were alive today, his work would have evolved, because the human psyche has changed -- as he argues, the archetypes are like a psychic organ that has been with man for a long time, with some fundamental pieces remaining the same, but as well there is change or evolution in how these things express themselves. The dreams of a "primitive" and a "civilized" man can contain starkly different things.

Civilization has civilized itself further since the mid 20th century. We have the advent of ubiquitous mass media, the internet, the dissolution of the nuclear family, etc. For example, the anima and the animus are, for Jung, related heavily to the paternal and maternal figures of the individual -- in a time period where those paternal and maternal influences are becoming more distant, anemic, and disassociated, how the fuck do you just utilize mid 20th century psychoanalysis when we're almost a fifth of the way through the 21st? The psychic landscape has changed, but Peterson apparently lives somewhere else completely.

Jung was a visionary, whose ideas were radical at the time. He saw individuals as having a goal to strive towards psychological androgyny. Now, within the bounds of his time, this would be expressed mostly within the gender roles of his time (due to the effect of upbringing and public "mythology" on the layout of the psyche), but notes are made that this could change in multiple of his works. We have approached that point. Peterson hasn't.

He prescribes Jung as written. He hasn't evolved the formula at all, which shows that he didn't understand it in the first place. Peterson treats Jung like he's the fucking Prophet Mohammed.

>> No.11561005

>>11560965
>appeal to authority
*yawn*

>> No.11561063

>>11561005
>appeal to the authority of logical fallacies
*groans*

>> No.11561067

>>11561063
i mean, it's a fallacy. Peterson isn't even a philosophy professor

>> No.11561081

>>11561067
doesn't mean you should pay any attention to a completely unsubstantiated opinion of a random anonymous poster

>> No.11561084

>>11561067
I mean, you're right, it's appeal to authority. But he's a psychologist, which is what Jung was. Though, not a revolutionary one, that's for certain. If he ends up being the Return of Jung I'm gonna be pissed.

>> No.11561089

>>11561081
You should dismantle the argument then.

>> No.11561101

>>11560973
Fuck off so ybo y

>> No.11561104

>>11561101
>can't even type base dboy

ABSOLUTELY KEKED

>> No.11561112
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11561112

>>11561104
>kek
>2018
>le epic style format

e m b a r e s s i n g

>> No.11561121

>>11561104
t. active reddit account

>> No.11561134

>>11560993
doesn't even merit a response

>> No.11561144

>>11561112
what is that smug woman thinking of me, is she judging my post? :/

>> No.11561146

>>11561112
... the fuck is wrong with her neck

>> No.11561150

>the absolute state of Peterson fans

>> No.11561155

>>11561150
>the absolute state of jung senpaitachi

>> No.11561161

>>11561155
don't make me laugh like that, anon, I'm in public

>> No.11561218

>>11561144
judging your cock

that's all women want, it's disgusting. I have a brain too, ladies...

>> No.11561223

>>11561134
yeah because you don't have one :)

>> No.11561232

>>11561223
>>11560993
I was looking forward to some kind of argument.

>> No.11561244

>>11561232
see>>11560993

>> No.11561248

>>11561232
There really isn't anything worth energy to say to those vague remarks.

>> No.11561370

>>11561248
Okay, let's break this down. Peterson on the anima and animus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exqL4C2u7HA

Peterson's view of Jung's work totally ignores the changes of the psychological landscape since the mid 20th century. Now, of course, this is "quick rundown" Jung, but I've never seen Peterson veer off from this course, and it seems as though it is the course he favors. The course of "men are one way, and women are another way".

Let's take a look at perhaps the most indicative line in the segment: "Jung would say -- perhaps -- that if you are a male you have to become masculine before you become feminine, and if you were a female the reverse is true" (2:25). "Perhaps" is the operative term here, as Peterson catches himself going off on a diatribe about his own personal beliefs, being read INTO Jung's work.

Now, if this were isolated in a vacuum, I would give the man some slack, but due to his figure as "Philosopher Daddy" of sad little boys all over the western world, whom he is telling to buck up and clean their rooms, it is clear to say that, in some respects, the man is a regressive. Not to mention his conspicuous silence on the anti-trans rhetoric of his followers, in his name.

Jung was reacting to the reality of the times around him. In a sense, Jung helped pioneer the "archaeological method" to philosophy made by Foucault. Anima and animus are not static. The psyche is not static: "as it has for so long been developing, so it still develops, and thus we are moved by forces from within as well as by stimuli from without". As well, the landscape of the individual psyche individuates on an individual basis, there is no "one size fits all" aproach, "there is no such thing as a typical Jungian analysis". Anima and animus are guidelines, they are animated differently within everyone, and especially in the 21st century, anyone who has done research into dreams can see a co-mingling of what were once more discrete psychic archetypes -- yet, Peterson goes against this, enforcing or projecting his own ideals on gender roles onto the world and onto the "proper" psyche.

1/2

>> No.11561379

>>11561370
Jung would say. "Perhaps". That's a big perhaps for such a foundational statement. And clearly incorrect: the path of individuation is different for everyone. He creates a strict dogma of Jung, rather than the Jung who was criticized for being "too fluid" in his time. For not having a rigorous enough structure, to which the rebuttal was: "the material itself is a living experience [...] we can do no more than present an honest of it from as many angles as possible". As well, Jung had the concept of looking at the earth and its history as a whole as a psychology, of looking at the Iron Curtain as manifest neuroses

So, we look upon the 21st century. The process of individuation continues. Globalization of information has united compartmentalized aspects of the psyche. Androgyny of mind is manifesting in androgyny of identity (see: Jung's preference towards androgyny, the Myth of Orpheus as a good example, or the shamanic tradition of medicine men essentially wearing drag). If Peterson had a real interest in the evolution of the psyche, then he would not be prescribing Jung-as-written on the 21st century. Jung gave us a formula, but the variables change. The psyche evolves and grows. Peterson rails against this by championing a return to a previous time, rather than finding the synthesis between the past and the present, to move toward the future.

The contemporary co-mingling of anima and animus, the increased complexity and nuance at play there, should be obvious to anyone who reads Jung non-dogmatically. Peterson does not do that. Peterson treats Jung as though he were the end of history.

2/2

>> No.11561433

>>11561379
Meant "Myth of Dionysus"

>> No.11561446

>>11559455
Probabalistic Graphical Models by Koller and Friedman

>> No.11561530

>>11560360
How many threads have you posted this in? Is this just what you do? If so I like it lol

>> No.11561537

>>11560787
No u

>> No.11561548

>>11559474
cheeky bitch lol

>> No.11561553

>>11561081
Then why does this thread exist

>> No.11561851

>>11560502
A masterpiece of synthesis. No other book taught me more about how the brain works, and how to take control of it.

>> No.11561868

>>11560736
>on a purely intellectual level
This is what you're doing wrong. Jung showed the necessity of developing the full range of psychic functions.

He also pointed out that overspecialising in intellectual development turns people into cranky, triggerable neurotics ...

>> No.11561893

>>11560134
Shankara's commentary

https://archive.org/details/Bhagavad-Gita.with.the.Commentary.of.Sri.Shankaracharya

>> No.11562897

>>11560134
Fuck Shankara, read Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita As It Is.

>> No.11563112
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11563112

>>11559833

>> No.11564225
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11564225

>>11559455

>> No.11564379

>>11560993
>>11561370
>[Jung] saw individuals as having a goal to strive towards psychological androgyny
>it is clear to say that, in some respects, [Peterson] is a regressive.
>Androgyny of mind is manifesting in androgyny of identity (see: Jung's preference towards androgyny, the Myth of Orpheus as a good example, or the shamanic tradition of medicine men essentially wearing drag).

I disagree. In fact, parts of your argument are a bit contradictory. First you say Peterson reads Jung too rigidly and the psychological method has to change with a changing society, but this contradicts the fact that Peterson seems to be more openly advocating for traditional gender roles than Jung did. In fact, I’m not sure Jung would totally disagree with part of Peterson’s approach.

This is my further disagreement: I don’t think Jung valued androgyny in the way you think. He definitely thought men had feminine qualities (typically repressed) which should be integrated properly into the personality and respected, and women the same for masculine qualities. However, this doesn’t mean he didn’t conceive the idea that there could be a pathological androgyny as well. There is the path towards individuation in which a man comes to terms with and integrates the feminine aspects of themselves (intuition, compassion, sensitivity, etc) and women come to terms with and integrates the masculine qualities in themselves (fortitude, stoicism, rationality, etc). However, Jung A.) still tacitly accepts the duality of gender roles and B.) understands and talks about pathological androgyny. For instance, a man integrating his feminine side does not mean being outright castrated, irrational, pathetic, weak, slavish, and browbeaten. A woman integrating her masculine side does not mean she should be bitchy, overbearing, castrating, and arrogant. Jung would notice the pathology of this.

Returning to your point that differences in society call for differences in the psychological method, it’s clear that in today’s society, there IS a significant cabal, trend, movement, or whatever which is pushing men to be feminized and woman to be masculinized. Jung would disagree with this as well and criticize it because individuation, personal self-development, cannot come from social conditioning and listening to the herd. It cannot be pushed upon one. Such pushing creates the pathologies Peterson criticizes and which Jung would criticize too — castrated, overly feminine men, and bitchy harpies.

In fact, this trend in today’s society is not strictly towards androgyny, but towards the disparagement of men and glorification of women. It is a hatred of men being masculine. In your words, the psyche has evolved. Thus Peterson’s different prescriptions.

>> No.11564405

>>11560129
just finished a read of AC Bhrahmapruda's Bhagavad Gita As It Is. The annotations get extensive and repetitive at times, but generally are illuminating and add a lot of digestibility to what you read. Subject matter wise I'd consider it appropriate for "leveling up" in terms of understanding

>> No.11564434

>>11564405
Prabhupada is his name, but yes, there is a reason it is the authoritative translation and commentary.

>> No.11565315

>>11564379
>However, this doesn’t mean he didn’t conceive the idea that there could be a pathological androgyny as well.
You're not wrong. But Jung would not say that a man should be masculine first before integrating his anima. IIRC, Jung believed that anima identification in homosexual males could be a good thing, which goes against the hard set idea that men should first masculinize. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought something similar about animus identified lesbians.

>"Since a "mother-complex" is a concept borrowed from psychopathology, it is always associated with the idea of injury and illness. But if we take the concept out of its narrow psychopathological setting and give it a wider connotation, we can see that it has positive effects as well. Thus a man with a mother complex may have a finely differentiated Eros instead of, or in addition to, homosexuality."

Now, I will admit, an element of social engineering is occurring today. Trying to defang men as a whole and masculinize women. However, Peterson takes, in my mind, a step too far into the past, rather than dealing with the reality of societal androgyny. Pathological androgyny should be avoided, as well as pathological masculinity and pathological femininity. Men and women can land in "typical" gender roles -- but that doesn't mean they should, and increasingly there is a co-mingling of the anima and animus in today's society. The demarcation is much more blurred than before, and this is not something to be fixed, in my mind. It's a reality of the social landscape, and some people are talking advantage of this and turning this change into widespread pathology.

However, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. Jung did not argue that, during the Cold War, the solution was the destruction of Communism through and through and a return to "better times". He argued for integration, as he almost always does. Here I believe he sound so so again.

Perhaps I am just biased, but I believe Jung would see definite positive aspects to, for example, the LGBT community. I do not think he would, as a rule, relegate the entirety of the community to pathology. Peterson does not explicitly do this, but he does seem to tacitly accept the regressive bigotry of his following. I understand the push back against modern agendas, but the push back seems mostly to be done with yet another agenda selling something we don't need. I would respect Peterson more if I got the felling that he knew that, and if he attempted to use his platform as one for greater integration. Sadly, I suppose that is difficult with how demonized he has become, which I think is unfair and intellectually dishonest.

Ultimately, Jung was arguing a hundred years ago that man had a woman inside him that needed embracing. That's a pretty radical move. In the 21st century, I'd expect an evolution there, not stagnancy.

>> No.11565322

>>11560991
This

>> No.11565404

>>11560134
thomas egenes. you can download his book on pdf. I was very happy with prabhupada's commentaries until i found out his disciples poisoned him and have been deforming his words since. Id say check the gita mahatmya commentary of shankara

>> No.11565584

>>11565404
This is very simple: read the first edition. It's even on PDF

>> No.11565678

>>11561379
>>11561370
That's a lot of analysis of what is obviously a clear reading of Jung. All Peterson meant was that Jung identified the typical progression of a man to involve (1) an identification with one's burgeoning masculinity around puberty, followed by (2) an identification with the femininity of his soul (the anima) around courtship and marriage.

This is basic Jung. Stop trying so hard.

>> No.11565730

>>11561370
>>11561379
>>11564379
>>11565315
doesn't even merit a response

>> No.11565746
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11565746

>>11559455

>> No.11565876

>>11565678
Peterson's the Neil de Grasse Tyson of Jungian analysis.

>> No.11566021

>>11565315
This is sort of dancing around my points cleverly with a lot of words. I agree Peterson seems a bit chauvinistic sometimes but, again, with modern feminization of culture, perhaps any thinker with the trappings of masculinity who appreciates and encourages masculinity will seem like a chauvinist.

I think he’s a necessary shake-up to our culture. I think Jung would embrace that. He’s the chaotic element bringing us to greater consciousness, paradoxically. Life is yin and yang, Western men are having yin forced on them, Peterson is emphasizing yang to balance it out. I think Peterson is a pretty worthy successor to Jung in this respect.

Again, Jung even talks about “animus-possessed women” and “anima-possessed man” disparagingly in parts. He ascribes to them the same negative traits I did.

>> No.11566191
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11566191

>>11559455
llewelyn powys - now that the gods are dead

>> No.11566252

>>11560907
Thank UUU

>> No.11566259

>>11560991
b4s3d

>> No.11566502

The Book of The Infinite Sun-Gravity's New Rainbow Jest and the Culture of Ulysses Critique

>> No.11566954

based test (b)

onions test (s)