/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11555115]

>muh leitmotif
>muh bourgeois vs artist
>muh declining family
>muh polish shota
>muh german culture
what a hack

[Anonymous No.11555140]

>>11555115
Pedophile, homosexual, incestuous. All in one. Why even read him?

[Anonymous No.11555147]

>>11555140
I imagine his work with anime characters. Makes me hard every time.

[Anonymous No.11555187]

>>11555140
You answered your own question

[Anonymous No.11555962]

>>11555140
>judging a work by the moral qualities of the author
never gonna make it son; most authors, esp. the rly great ones were utter degens; go back to plebbit & make a thread about how many poc&woman authors u've read this year

[Anonymous No.11555984]

>>11555115
you do realize you can do this to every author?
altho most are basically ''btfo'' with just one >muh xx; the fact that you need 5 only speaks in favor of Mann here
you forgot
>muh declining europe
>muh sickness
>muh Wagner
>muh Goethe
>muh Schoppy
>muh Bildungsroman
>muh dialects
>muh Eros & Thanatos
>muh struggeling artist
>muh irony
>muh godlike prose
>muh OP is a fag

[Anonymous No.11556021]

>>11555140
What give me a sauce.

Also where does the polish shota come from?

[Anonymous No.11556046]

>>11555115
"Muh":s don't work with Mann, unlike Hesse.

[Anonymous No.11556143]

>>11556021
Death in Venice

[Anonymous No.11556480]

Why are Germans so crazy?

[Anonymous No.11556484]

>>11555140
listed only good things

[Anonymous No.11556511]

WE MANN-THREAD NOW!
__
bored at work rn, read all of Manns (fictional) oeuvre
anyone wanna talk about Mann? anyone reading Mann rn? anyone got questions concerning Mann?

[Anonymous No.11556527]

Mann seems like an interesting guy. I can relate to him.

[Anonymous No.11556571]

The Death in Venice was not a tragedy!

[Anonymous No.11557732]

>>11555115
The Magic Mountain is comfy and amazing. Have you actually read anything by him. If you have, is this really all you have to say? It's weird to go after Mann like this because its not like he's super overrated or something.

[Anonymous No.11557755]

>>11557732
Peeperkorn is one of my favorite characters in fiction.

[Anonymous No.11557785]

>>11555115
Mann is amazing. I'm 700 pages into Magic Mountain right now and all this time I've been feeling befriended by him, genuinely welcomed into the universe, and guided.

[Anonymous No.11557795]

>>11555115
You forgot Nietzsche, boipucc, time and Wagner

[Anonymous No.11557971]

>>11555140
>incestuous
not true.

[Anonymous No.11558163]

>>11556021
>>11557971
>...in the summer of 1911, Mann had stayed at the Grand Hôtel des Bains on the Lido of Venice with his wife and brother, when he became enraptured by the angelic figure of Władysław Moes, a 10-year-old Polish boy.

>Mann's diary records his attraction to his own 13-year-old son, "Eissi" – Klaus Mann: "Klaus to whom recently I feel very drawn" (22 June). In the background conversations about man-to-man eroticism take place; a long letter is written to Carl Maria Weber on this topic, while the diary reveals: "In love with Klaus during these days" (5 June). "Eissi, who enchants me right now" (11 July). "Delight over Eissi, who in his bath is terribly handsome. Find it very natural that I am in love with my son ... Eissi lay reading in bed with his brown torso naked, which disconcerted me" (25 July). "I heard noise in the boys' room and surprised Eissi completely naked in front of Golo's bed acting foolish. Strong impression of his premasculine, gleaming body. Disquiet"

[Anonymous No.11558188]

>>11558163
>In the background conversations about man-to-man eroticism take place
you could say it was... Mann-to-man eroticism. haha.

[Anonymous No.11558389]

>>11558163
that's fucked up but is his writing good (in translation)?

[Anonymous No.11558425]

>>11556511
I’ve read Doktor Faustus and TMM. What should I read now?

[Anonymous No.11558458]

>>11558163
still not a proof, though.

>>11558389
his writing is amazing in every language possible because the essence, wit, and care are always there.

[Anonymous No.11558482]

>>11558389
I think for most works it works fine-ish; Bruddenbrooks and esp. Doktor Faustus lose by far the most in translation; I'd suggest you try MM first (maybe Tonio Kröger before)
>>11558425
have you read his short stuff? Tonio K, DiV & Tristan are must-reads imo; other than that depends which direction you wanna go;
more Bildungsroman but this time a satirical spin on the genre? - Felix Krull
move away from Bildungsroman and try something more convential, spanning several generations and more in the vein of classic realism? - Buddenbrooks
want to dive more into the mysticism/religious symbolism and dank prose of Faustus, combined with an epic tale set in ancient times? - Jospeh & his bros

[Anonymous No.11558493]

>>11558163
That's fucked up sorta, but maybe this is mistranslated and he just felt fatherly love?

[Anonymous No.11558563]

>>11558458
>still not a proof
Why not? The sources literally pull from his own diary.

[Anonymous No.11558573]

>>11558563
I just think his kids, other family members or friends of family would be pretty vocal if he *actually* raped or tried to rape/seduce his son, and they weren't, not a word to be found about it. Guess we'll never know.

[Anonymous No.11558577]

>>11558493
>premasculine, gleaming body
>brown torso naked, which disconcerted me
>in his bath is terribly handsome
>Disquiet
Seems pretty clear to me

[Anonymous No.11558855]

>>11558389
The Woods translation for MM is very good, in my anglo opinion.

[Anonymous No.11559040]

I read the Magic Mountain, it was eerily close to my heart since I was in the same position as Castorp, just finished an engineering degree, dropped out in the second year of HS for a year, it was fucking spooky.

What book should I read next from him, is there anything that comes close?

[Anonymous No.11559222]

Was Thomas Mann the last patrician? Or was it Hemingway?

[Anonymous No.11560355]

>>11557755
The whole chapter titled "Vingt-et-un" is my second favorite passage in a book. I don't know ehich translation you're reading, but you can clearly tell how Mann is a master in using language. He shifts storytelling into stream of consciousness following the very feelings of his carachters (drunk and excited), but still manages to be comfy and absolutely understandable.
First favorite passage is the first fifty-or-so pages of Gravity's Rainbow, btw

[Anonymous No.11560430]

>>11558573
He didn't try to rape his son he just wanted to. Anyway half his children turned out to be quite literally gay Jewish suicides, including little Klaus Mann.

[Anonymous No.11560432]

>>11559222
How was Hemingway patrician? He doesn't compare to Mann. Old world German bourgeois vs a puffed up American journalist, a faux masculine adventurer. Houellebecq calls Mann and Proust the "last real Europeans" in The Elementary Particles.

[Anonymous No.11561276]

>>11555984
no, you stupid spurious faggot, he only "needed" the pedophile part. the rest are just more reasons why mann is mediocre

[Anonymous No.11561324]

>>11555115
REMINDER THAT QUITE LITERALLY ALL ARTISTS WILL HAVE SOMETHING ABOUT THEM WHICH MAKES THEM BAD PEOPLE

REMINDER THAT IF YOU REFUSE TO LIKE AN ARTIST BECAUSE OF THEIR PERSONAL FLAWS THEN YOU MIGHT AS WELL LITERALLY REJECT ALL ART

REMINDER THAT YOU DONT NEED TO BE A GOOD PERSON TO CREATE GOOD ART AND IN FACT ITS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE GOOD ART WITHOUT THE PSYCHIC DISTURBANCES THAT PLAGUE ALMOST ALL GOOD ARTISTS

REMINDER THAT THE ONLY REASON TO REJECT AN ARTIST BECAUSE OF THEIR FLAWS IS BECAUSE OF VIRTUE SOGNALLING

REMINDER THAT (THIS IS IS THE MOST IMPROTANT REMINDER) ONE MAIN REASON FOR THE STULTIFIED MEDIOCRITY OF CONTEMPORARY ART IS THAT WE AS A SOCIETY ARE NO LONGER WILLING TO TOLERATE ABNORMALITIES AND IMMORALITIES FROM ARTISTS YET STILL WANT TO PRETEND THAT THIS ISNT AN ANTI-ART POSITION AND SO WEVE DAMNED OURSELVES TO THE ETERNAL TORTURE OF HAVING TO CALL THESE FUCKING NORMIES WHO ONLY CARE ABOUT POLITICAL SIGNALLING """""ARTISTS"""" THIS IS THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR WANTING TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO THIS IS THE PRICE FOR YOUR HATRED OF ARTISTS AND YOHR HATRED OF ART AND YOU AHVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE CURRENT LITERARY LANDSCAPE IF YOU ENGAGE IN THIS MORAL SCOLDING OF GREAT ARTISTS

[Anonymous No.11561325]

>>11561276
>art is bad because artist is a [insert random ad hominem]
golly gee, hope my fav authors doesnt get #metoo'd, otherwise I'll never be able to read him
honestly tho; I don't think Mann was 'real' pedophile, just a bisexual narcissist, and an aesthete cranked up to almost comical proportions

[Anonymous No.11561872]

>>11561325
>>art is bad because artist is a [insert random ad hominem]

he's mediocre because he works with drab themes and fails to make them truly sublime. i didn't say he's bad. work on your reading comprehension. i used to think at one point buddenbrooks was the best thing i ever read.

however, in this case you can consider your greentext more correct than you realize, even if by accident.

[Anonymous No.11562039]

>>11561872
nah, buddenbrooks is good but not the best thing ever written; faustus and Joseph are

[Anonymous No.11562256]

>>11562039
hence past tense for buddenbrooks, his worst best work.

file joseph as "boring shit no one reads and whose subject matter is better gained from nonfiction anyhow"

[Anonymous No.11562452]

>>11562256
>file joseph as "boring shit no one reads and whose subject matter is better gained from nonfiction anyhow"

this

[Anonymous No.11563027]

ive always found him to be overrated but it's a taboo to say this because people take harold bloom types too seriously

[Anonymous No.11563047]

/lit/ just hates him because The Dilettante describes the average poster here

[Anonymous No.11563103]

>>11563047
> /lit/ just hates him

/lit/ rather likes Mann...maybe The Dilettante describes the average Mannhead?