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11504392 No.11504392 [Reply] [Original]

Holy shit this book is so good, why do people concentrate on his other work? And why is Deleuze so unknown outside of academic circles? The future will be Deleuzian, I've been convinced of that.

>> No.11504414

>>11504392
yeah this book actually impressed me despite my general antipathy towards his shit with Guattari

>> No.11504551

You need a big academic brain to comprehend him

>> No.11504621

>>11504392
it already is to a certain extent, anti-oedipus is the closest thing to a manifesto for neoliberal capitalism we'll probably ever see

>> No.11504845

>>11504621
This.

>> No.11506398

>>11504551
Do you mean this sarcastically? Because I can see it both ways.

>> No.11506694

>>11504392
this is probably my favourite book, his other work is good too though! you should read his monographs to deepen your understanding of dif & rep

>> No.11506717

>>11504551
For you.

>> No.11506747

>>11504392
I've been meaning to read Deleuze; is this a good start?

>> No.11506778

>>11506747
No. Start with his books on other philosophers.

>> No.11506823
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11506823

>>11504621
>>11504845
Proof?

>> No.11506833
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11506833

>>11506747
For the billionth time here's the pasta:


A decent short summary / intro to D&G:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EHnrE3j9kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lajsoQJ0V6A

A lot of the stuff here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4CtHPqv6eKr8pYqe8qEoEA/videos?disable_polymer=1

Everything by Manuel DeLanda:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=manuel+delanda

A bit more on the Nietzsche-Deleuze relation through Klossowski (who dedicated his book about Nietzsche to Deleuze):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7l7ZAKZZZU

More on the Deleuze-Nietzsche relation (the entire series is fascinating if you're into Nietzsche):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFxnf92XqY


The Deleuze for the Desperate series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS35vUMhww4

Derrida's lecture about Deleuze (mistitled, it's about Stupidity not Forgiveness):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_r-gr3ccik

There's probably a lot more, there are Vimeo videos as well which don't feature on Youtube.

Pirate Deleuze's Abecedaire (it should have English subtitles) as I can't find it streamed in full online anywhere.

As for the books, start with the essay and interview collections (in no particular order): Dialogues, Negotiations, Desert Islands, Two Regimes of Madness, Essays Critical and Clinical. "Letter to a Harsh Critic" in Negotiations is short (about 7 pages) and tells you how to read his texts. As for the books, start with Nietzsche and Philosophy (read the intro as well). Deleuze's courses are also pretty accessible and translated in several languages: https://www.webdeleuze.com/


A decent bibliography:
https://immanentterrain.wordpress.com/biblio/

>> No.11506841

what do you even learn from deleuze?

>> No.11506859

>>11506841
Fancy words to put into your essays to get you them good marks.

>> No.11506892
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11506892

>>11506859
This. Also stuff like metaphysics, history of philosophy, epistemology, psychology, psychoanalysis and its weak points, sociology, history, politics, ethics, linguistics, literature, some basic mathematics, biology, ethology, etymology, economics, art (painting, music, cinema), a bit of physics, communicational theory and other stuff.

>> No.11506899

>>11504414
>general antipathy towards his shit with Guattari

This is how you know someone didn't understand Deleuze (especially Zizek).

>> No.11506935

>>11506899
>This is how you know someone didn't understand Deleuze (especially Zizek).
this is how i know you didn't understand deleuze

as someone who understands deleuze, i'm not a big fan of his work with guatarri! i'm reading chaosmosis rn, and both of them worked better on their own. two men writing a book together...

>> No.11506957

>>11506935
You have to know what to look for. Of course, as D&G admit, Anti-Oedipus was a failure in countless ways (except financially since it was an instant bestseller) and Guattari got depressed after reading the reviews. If you look at Deleuze's development, we should appreciate Guattari for all the new stuff produced (including the awkward AO) since Deleuze overall kept saying the same shit over and over since his second book. D himself said that there's a continuity between his work and the stuff with Guattari. The desire / assemblage stuff completes the work on pure difference.

>> No.11508055

>>11506823
Bump out of spite because proof is never provided by brainlets

>> No.11508115

>>11506823
>>11508055
how do you prove a claim about a future that hasn't actually happened yet? ("we'll probably ever see")
calling other people brainlets.

>> No.11508118
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11508118

>>11504621
>>11506823

>> No.11508134
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11508134

>>11508115
> Anti-Oedipus wasn't published yet

>>11508118
> posts Zizek

I know you're trolling and I'm still gonna call you brainlets.

>> No.11508152

>>11508134
Only homosexuals, accelerationists, zoophiles and feminists are involved with Deleuze studies today. Zizek is laying grounds for the ontology of future, you're an aliterate retard if you think otherwise.

>> No.11508201
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11508201

>>11508152
I would unironically love to hear your reasons for believing this about Zizek. Pic related, it's Zizek's ontology in a nutshell.

>> No.11508250

>>11508134
do you know what a subjunctive statement is?

>> No.11508275

>>11508250
Do you know what being a pedantic asshole means? The real question should be why I bother replying to trolls. Especially since the captcha is so utter shit today.

>> No.11508277
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11508277

>>11508275
>troll replies to troll replies to troll
why do any of us do anything?

>> No.11508725

>>11504392
I found it really hard to understand

>> No.11508753

>>11508152
>Badiou is laying grounds for the ontology of the future
fixed that for you desu

>> No.11508795

Why was i born too stupid to understand it?

>> No.11508796

>>11508795
deterritorialize harder

>> No.11508801

>>11508796
see? what does that even mean?

>> No.11508829

>>11508801
it means resonating with new vibrations to access different lines of flight (or something like that)

>> No.11508866
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11508866

>>11508795
Just do what the pasta says (this one >>11506833 ).

You can translate most terms into everyday language if you read enough.

>>11508801
It means what >>11508829 said. In layman's terms it means, among many other things, to free up the way you understand concepts conventionally to allow for different connections (not necessarily metaphorical, D&G preferred concrete connections and situations over abstractions in the normal sense).

>> No.11508883

>>11508866
i'm currently reading The Deleuze Dictionary. If i can't get understanding i'll probably stop engaging with these ideas so much so that i'm not a philosopher or even someone who has any formal education in the humanities

>> No.11508908

>>11508883
It certainly helps to know a bit of philosophy, but Deleuze always tried to write a form of what he called pop philosophy, not in the sense of popularizing, but rather of allowing for different connections to come about with non-philosophical domains. The authors he worked on all had their self-help side and so does he. It's less silly than it might sound when stated like this. You should start with Letter to a Harsh Critic in "Negotiations", watch a few Youtube videos (the ones in the pasta, especially Lotringer, Widder and lots of DeLanda) then move on to Nietzsche & Philosophy. The Dictionary tries to cover all of Deleuze's work regardless of period so that might make things a bit difficult, depends on your patience.

>> No.11508914

>>11508908
The connections with other domains is what interested me initially. Maybe i'll follow your advice

>> No.11509321

>>11508753
based and redpilled

deleuzefriends should read fascism of the potato

>> No.11509438
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11509438

>>11504392
I can't help but think of Deleuze and Guattari as products of the broader counterculture, 1960-70s systems thinking trends and the antipsychiatry movement. Gregory Bateson is seldom read nowadays, but in Steps to an Ecology of Mind, he touches upon the relation of knowledge and difference and the theory of schizophrenia as double bind( a concept later elaborated upon by RD Laing and D&G).
https://monoskop.org/images/b/bf/Bateson_Gregory_Steps_to_an_Ecology_of_Mind.pdf

https://monoskop.org/images/c/c3/Bateson_Gregory_Mind_and_Nature.pdf

in The Human Use of Human Beings(1950), The father of cybernetics Norbert Wiener deals with machinic social assemblages. Wiener refused to participate in cold war rearment programs and became an early critic of automation which he correctly regarded as a cover for technocratic control, but his books still display this fundamental ambiguity, caught between humanistic impulses and a machine's-eye view of the world.

https://ia800702.us.archive.org/2/items/NorbertWienerHumanUseOfHumanBeings/NorbertWienerHuman_use_of_human_beings.pdf

(obligatory McLuhan digression)

https://ia802302.us.archive.org/28/items/pdfy-vNiFct6b-L5ucJEa/Marshall%20McLuhan%20-%20The%20Medium%20is%20The%20Massage.pdf

>> No.11509443
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11509443

>>11509438
I still don't know what to make of the links that bind cold war social engineering with avant continental theory and the ideological roots of the sillicon valley technocracy( thank Stewart Brand for introducing vaguely Deleuzo Guattarian jargon into the business world, and hey, wasn't Steve Bannon once a member of the Global Bussiness Network and a key player in the Biosphere 2 project?). The radical ideas of the 60s were banalized into apologetics for the davos set and the tech industry, but that doesn't mean we should reject them outright, it only makes our archeological task more urgent.The technodystopias of Land, Kaczynski, Burroughs and Ballard, Lasch's culture of narcissism, and the surveillance mechanisms of Thiel's Palantir and the Chinese Communist Party are all irrevocably bound up with the legacy of 60s utopianism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gkBPlLcfQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiaWsgtJrNI


Also, I've been reading the Three Ecologies(ie. planetary, social and psychological) a solo work by Guattari, which reminds me of Murray Bookchin's writings on social ecology

https://monoskop.org/images/4/44/Guattari_Felix_The_Three_Ecologies.pdf

https://libcom.org/files/[Murray_Bookchin]_Re-Enchanting_Humanity_1.pdf

And who could forget Stafford Beer? the foremost theorist of cybernetic management. His book, the brain of the firm, though ostensibly about bussiness administration, inspired Brian Eno to develop new improvisational techniques( incidentally, Brian Eno went on to work as a sound designer for Microsoft(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Ak5VgyEoc)).)). His sketches for a tv feedback mechanism are eerily prescient.


https://monoskop.org/images/e/e3/Beer_Stafford_Designing_Freedom.pdf