/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11503150]

He was the embodiment of toxic masculinity, wasnt he?

[Anonymous No.11503160]

>>11503150
no i think that would go to genghis khan or someone similarly rapey and murdery

[Anonymous No.11503171]

>>11503150
le epin falseflagger

[Anonymous No.11503180]

>>11503160
Um, no sweetie. Khan wasn't a white man and therefore can't be toxically masculine.

[Anonymous No.11503204]

>>11503180
east asians are not poc though because they outperform whites in all the ways that blacks dont. in fact they are whiter than white people actually

[Anonymous No.11503220]

>>11503160
Genghis Khan probably had admirers. Women love powerful men like that. They can't help it.

[Anonymous No.11503227]

>>11503180
>>11503204

[Anonymous No.11503242]

>>11503150
His female characters in The Sun Also Rises and The Garden of Eden have the power and control in relationships. I'm not sure why this is never brought up in discussions about Hemingway and masculinity.

[Anonymous No.11503248]

>>11503220
so do men though

[Anonymous No.11503250]

>>11503220
yeah but it's still 'toxic masculinity' by their definition. serial killers have groupies as well you know

[Anonymous No.11503255]

Achievers aren't repulsive to the female if there's not something else.

[Anonymous No.11503257]

>>11503242
The assumption that one party of a relationship must excercise power and control over the other is in itself patriarchal thinking and a sign of toxic masculinity.

[Anonymous No.11503262]

>>11503257
This happens in nature all the time, including in matriarchal animals though. You're wrong and stupid.

[Anonymous No.11503267]

>>11503248
True that, but in a different way
>>11503250
Yeah because they're usually serialkillerpilled.

Check what Hitler had to say on this here phenomenon. Quite interesting if you consider the impact his speeches had, especially on women.

>"The mass, the people, to me is a woman [...] Someone who does not understand the intrinsically feminine character of the mass will never be an effective speaker. Ask yourself what does a woman want from a man? Clearness, decision, power, action [...] If she is talked to properly she will be proud to sacrifice, because no woman will ever feel that her life's sacrifices have received their due fulfilment."
>Clearness, decision, power, action

Inb4 some fucking sensitive faggot calls me a neo-nazi or whatever the fuck

[Anonymous No.11503268]

Toxic masculinity would be that which is onions and demanding, the thing which would manifest as some wailing aberrant devoid of authority. Yukio Mishima is probably the best example of toxic masculinity that comes to mind, or, like, an MFA professor.

Essentially, toxic masculinity happens at the crossroads of impotence and inborn (not acquired) authority.

[Anonymous No.11503269]

>>11503257
one party always has more power than the other, this is true of every single type of human interaction, not just romantic relationships

[Anonymous No.11503275]

>>11503257
...is it?

[Anonymous No.11503277]

>>11503257
Lmao
>Being this deluded

[Anonymous No.11503278]

Mirrin that barrel chest.

[Anonymous No.11503281]

>>11503257
Ooof sorry doll but your mind has been socially goofed. A good relationship is symbiotic, not reciprocal.

[Anonymous No.11503284]

>>11503278
I'm mirin' that double barrel lad, you're a poofta

[Anonymous No.11503408]

>>11503267
neo nazi

[Anonymous No.11503426]

>>11503408
Haha fuck off

[Anonymous No.11503438]

>>11503150
NEVER SHOULD'VE COME HERE

[Anonymous No.11503444]

>>11503257
Don't fall for these mongoloids, they're bitter virgins and most likely have never touched a tit, or at least have never managed to touch the same tit for over 3 years because they're terrible relationbuilders.

[Anonymous No.11503474]

>>11503444
No, you're just literally white knighting or a bitter ugly cunt. Even most fucking women know that post is bullshit.

>Hur durr relationship is 50/50 like my favvie holylwoodo movie hehehe
Get a grip on reality ya stupid bitch

[Anonymous No.11503479]

>>11503150
He was daddy asf.

[Anonymous No.11503514]

That's not Mishima.

[Anonymous No.11503530]

>>11503444
Can someone explain to me what causes men to act in this way? He knows what he's saying is wrong, he knows everyone see's right through him, there are no rewards for him to act in this way, so why does he do it? What is the point?

[Anonymous No.11503546]

>>11503530
Toxic masculinity. The irony is thick.

[Anonymous No.11503558]

>>11503530
they've been socialized as women because masculinity is seen as 'toxic'. decades of the feminized education system and no male role models or bonding with other boys does this

the only people that come out masculine are those who play team sports or join gangs, and even these groups have increasingly feminine tendencies

[Anonymous No.11503727]

>>11503474
I've been in a relationship for 5 years now, and the more heart and soul I poured into it the more I got out of it.
The relationship is still just as strong because we actually talk about how we feel, give room to emotions like anger but never linger on them or let them breed something between us because we solve everything pragmatically.

Relationships are not about power, they're about being rational, honest, constant rebuilding, and caring for the other person.

>>11503530
What the fuck are you on about, I don't give a shit about toxic masculinity, I'm just saying she shouldn't listen to a bunch of virgins who think relationships are about male domination.
Clearly your relationship will be terrible and there will be skewed communication and little trust if you base it on overpowering the other person?
Not only is this a whole field of psychology that tries to teach people not to try and control the other person, but to be assertive instead which will be beneficial for both parties, instead of negative for both.

And I don't agree with the idea of toxic masculinity at all, toxic masculinity is a loaded word because it implies a slow working and invisible toxic chemical that will slowly kill you.
On top of that in a lot of cases it conflates normal masculine behavior as being toxic, or the lack of certain traits within men as being deliberately rejected, when in most cases this behavior is simply not present because of small biological differences, I.E less tear buildup and better tear removal which means that men are less likely to cry physically.
Also both men and women show the same levels of embarrassment when it comes to public crying, it's a human thing, not a masculine thing.

We also have to ask ourselves what the opposite of toxic masculinity is, it's a person who isn't assertive, overemotional, doesn't take the reigns over his own life, and doesn't actively try to gain a position over others.

But then again it's another one of those analytical tools without a single strap of evidence with no desire to have any.

[Anonymous No.11503736]

>>11503727
>Implying that is what anyone was saying
Nice strawmanning you larping queer
Also your personal anecdote means absolutely sweet fuck all if you didn't know
>>>/trash/

[Anonymous No.11503742]

>>11503727
>I'm just saying she shouldn't listen to a bunch of virgins who think relationships are about male domination.
Thats your inserting that right into all nice and snug
Because no one else mentioned anything remotely similar really
Pathetic faggot

[Anonymous No.11503756]

>>11503727
>relationships are about x and not y
there are different sorts of relationships m8. a lot of them are downright machiavellian

[Anonymous No.11503763]

>>11503150
He was actually a bit of a pussy.

[Anonymous No.11503775]

>>11503756
A lot of relationships are shit, but that's what you get when you essentially become three people.

[Anonymous No.11503782]

>>11503150
Toxi masculinity isn't a thing.
Masculinity is one of those things that having more of it is always good.
Like more healthy, or more good.
What people mean when they say "toxi masculinity" is always inevitably not masculine.

[Anonymous No.11503789]

>>11503150
Wow he's just a chubby weakling. His biceps are like 12 inches LMAO some "all american manly man" you got there. He looks like hes on the onions diet

[Anonymous No.11503805]

Masculinity is emotional stability, a rational mind, strong fortitude, desire to breed.

Hemmingway was an emotional child that tried to mask this by doing cliche "manly" things. He was not masculine.

[Anonymous No.11503919]

>>11503782
>Toxi masculinity isn't a thing
It is and you can find ample evidence for it in your everyday interactions. for example the widespread phenomenon of mansplaining

>What people mean when they say "toxi masculinity" is always inevitably not masculine
No true Scotsman, you dumbass

[Anonymous No.11503931]

>>11503919
do you think there is an equivalent toxic femininity

[Anonymous No.11503940]

>>11503931
It's usually called "traditional femininity," but in a sense, yes

[Anonymous No.11503951]

>>11503940
i dont mean like 'women are forced into acting this way' i mean women of their own agency being toxic, and this being particular to their femininity, ie. the mirror concept

[Anonymous No.11503961]

>>11503951
all humans are toxic

[Anonymous No.11503977]

>>11503951
Obviously there is no exact mirror concept since toxic masculinity results from a patriarchal society which condones or even encourages this poison to spread. In a similar way as there is no racism against white people because all the institutional powers have been vested in whites, there is no toxic femininity because patriarchal institutions would logically not allow for such a thing to emerge. The patriarchal society denies women agency for good and ill, but at the same time encourages men to behave toxically to show off of their manliness. Hence only toxic masculinty is of concern.

[Anonymous No.11503984]

>>11503977
i figured. you really dont give women enough credit theyve beenmanipulating men ever since we evolved our sexual dimorphism. 'patriarchy' lel, as if theyd just allow men to control everything

[Anonymous No.11503991]

>>11503931
Women don't usually shoot up schools, so probs not

[Anonymous No.11503994]

>>11503991
they do other stuff though, like cuck their provider males and use people for various purposes

[Anonymous No.11504001]

this dudes books are boring.

[Anonymous No.11504040]

He did try to make his works overly masculine but is that a bad thing? Authors always include their ideology in their writing.

[Anonymous No.11504054]

>>11504040
Also, masculinity is not inherently toxic.

[Anonymous No.11504057]

Has anyone ever talked about 'toxic femininity'?

[Anonymous No.11504066]

>>11503919
I don't agree with you at all, but can you please not leave this place so we're stuck with nothing but /pol/?

[Anonymous No.11504069]

>>11503977
Maybe there is no institutionalized racism against whites, but it is possible for someone to believe that their race is superior to the white race--which is an example of racism.

[Anonymous No.11504091]

>>11503991
excuse me u shitlord
u cannot keep women down
women are just as capable as men at mass murder

[Anonymous No.11504095]

>>11503919
I'm not sure if mansplaining is a good example of toxic masculinity. The idea of toxic masculinity is behavior that is harmful to the individual or society. Mansplaining is more of an example of ignorance and an annoyance.

Also, toxic masculinity is not bound to just men. Masculinity is decided by a society/culture, which makes it fluid in the same way gender is.

[Anonymous No.11504118]

>>11504066
>wanting another type of cancer after getting tired of cancer eating you alive

[Anonymous No.11504166]

>>11503977
Doesn't really make sense desu. Something like 'toxic femininity' would not need matriarchal institutions to emerge, it's inherent and doesn't require 'the agency for good and ill' for it to be a concern. This is what's nonsense to be about these complaints, it's that because the one side is seemingly in control of external institutions that the other side ceases to exist, or to hold responsibility for ills or for encouraging the toxicity of the other side.

[Anonymous No.11504204]

>>11504095

you sound like a giant faggot mate. do some push ups.

[Anonymous No.11504221]

>>11504204
Comments like this wont ever make your father love you.

[Anonymous No.11504247]

>>11503150
Define toxic masculinity first.

[Anonymous No.11504300]

Someone who's so worried about masculinity cannot possibly be the embodiment of any form of it whatsoever.

If you want to find the embodiment of masculinity (I don't know about Toxic, I don't read The New Yorker) then you should probably look up to great men like Ulysses and Emperor Octavius.

>>11503267
Hitler was a man of genius. I feel that in the long run his image will outrun Napoleon's.

[Anonymous No.11504308]

>>11504300
Hitler will definitely outlast Napoleon, hitler is almost deified as an antichrist. In the future nobody will care that he was 'evil' or whatever anymore but the magnitude of his impact on our civilization will be remembered

[Anonymous No.11504330]

>>11504057
Thats sexist you macho pig. #hailvaginas

[Anonymous No.11504332]

>>11504300
>>11504308
Agree with you both. He's already more hated than whoever killed Christ.

[Anonymous No.11504340]

>>11504247
The aspects of masculinity that are negative.

[Anonymous No.11504351]

>>11503267
>Check what Hitler had to say [...]
Ignored

[Anonymous No.11504358]

>>11504351
t. Sensitive faggot
Die in a house fire buddy

[Anonymous No.11504444]

>>11504340
Example?

[Anonymous No.11504554]

>>11504444
outperforming femmes
men are oppressive with their superior strength and intellect

[Anonymous No.11504556]

>>11504444
A lot of the negative aspects come out in hip hop culture. Anti-intellectualism, arrogance, treating women as sex things, violence, petty squalls with others over how manly you are.

[Anonymous No.11504572]

When will he be taken out of the western canon?

[Anonymous No.11504585]

>>11504556
anon, women ARE sex things

[Anonymous No.11504607]

>>11503991
women don't need to because they prefer to inflict unending suffering on a psychological level and they're quite good at it

[Anonymous No.11504615]

>>11504095
mansplaining doesn't have anything to do with what you're saying, it's how you're saying it. if you're wrong your just wrong. but if you're right you're mansplaining, which means you're wrong even when you're right

[Anonymous No.11504672]

>>11504615
If you are the person that posted the "Am I Mansplaining" photo, your idea in this comment is way different than what is represented in the photo.

If you're not that person then whatever.

[Anonymous No.11504769]

>>11503220
Based and redpilled.

[Anonymous No.11504793]

>>11504556
LMAO femininity is toxic you stupid bitch

[Anonymous No.11504807]

>>11503204
This.

[Anonymous No.11504950]

>>11503150
ITT: Women see "toxic masculinity" and open the thread and try and define it.

Pro-tip: You can't

[Anonymous No.11505077]

>>11504572
never because that would not make any sense

[Anonymous No.11505092]

>>11504556
Anti intellectualism is the only thing bad in that list.

[Anonymous No.11505121]

>>11505092
and it's not true insofar as "hip-hop" "culture" goes

[Anonymous No.11505194]

>>11503180
I know you're just an ironic retard but MOCs definitely have masculinity probs

[Anonymous No.11505197]

>>11504358
>He's the sensitive one, I hope he DIES for disagreeing with me!

[Anonymous No.11505200]

>>11505197
That was kind of the point braincel

[Anonymous No.11505204]

>>11505197
Here, I'll reply for you to, your type are quite predictable.
>>11505200
>Pretending to be retarded
>Brainlet.jpeg

[Anonymous No.11505231]

>>11503150
Toxic masculinity isn't real you spinless liberal basedboy.

[Anonymous No.11505242]

>>11503204
> east asians are not poc though

UMM NO SWEETIE east asians were historically discriminated against so now they count as POC unless we are talking about negatives then they are model minorities and also way better than white people

[Anonymous No.11505254]

>>11503479
That is a pretty good shitpost to be honest desu.

[Anonymous No.11505264]

>>11504444
the ability to confidently achieve quorum in a crisis

[Anonymous No.11505275]

Well all of this talk about toxic this or that in the end boils down to whether someone is a bad person.
It's meaningless to talk about "toxic masculinity" or femininity or anything like that; what you are ultimately making are character judgements.
Basically it's just name calling.
Hemingway the individual wasn't a particularly terrible person. He was quite liked by many of his friends and acquaintances. Did he get drunk and act like an asshole? Occasionally, but so do many people.
In short, everything about the concept of toxic gender this or that is bogus.

[Anonymous No.11505279]

>>11503919
>mansplaining
>grovel at womens feet and only talk when they explicitly ask you too

[Anonymous No.11505291]

>>11503977
Lying, deceit, gossip are all distinctly feminine featues.

[Anonymous No.11505305]

>>11504066
/pol/ is better anyday over these retards

[Anonymous No.11505581]

>>11504556
get niggers out of this

[Anonymous No.11506264]

>>11503242
Because most women can't grasp masculine concepts such as loyalty, honour, sacrifice, duty, mortality- they read his books and don't understand them.
Because they don't understand them, they trot out anodyne statements like "he doesn't write strong female characters" to absolve themselves of having failed to grasp what he is trying to say.
One look at Pilar in For Whom the Bell Tolls shows that most of them wouldn't even know what a strong female character is if it doesnt fit the mould of- Stacey who showed that fuckboi what he is missing out on by losing 5 pounds and traveling to matchu pitchu to get a photo for her tinder account.


Because they've never read him or tried to understand, they trot out the tired- 'he doe

[Anonymous No.11506300]

>>11503727
>Clearly your relationship will be terrible and there will be skewed communication and little trust if you base it on overpowering the other person?
Nice strawman. The exertation of power is not the same as tyranny.

[Anonymous No.11506309]

>>11503919
Pic related, it's you

[Anonymous No.11506316]

>>11503977
>being such a sheep that beliefs held by the individual and not the heard either don't exist or are of no concern

[Anonymous No.11506341]

>>11504556
This might be news to you but it's women that validate the rappers by letting them fuck 'em

[Anonymous No.11506584]

>>11503150
he was an author who wrote books you fucking bigot

[Anonymous No.11506598]

>>11503150
No, he was a pussy and a shit writer.

>>11503242
When you read him, you can tell he is beta as fuck.

[Anonymous No.11507066]

>>11503474
Ur American, aren't u? :)

[Anonymous No.11507071]

>>11503727
Yes, this. This is the way to go.

[Anonymous No.11507085]

>>11507066
no

[Anonymous No.11507087]

>>11504066
>>11507085
Yee u are ;)

[Anonymous No.11507093]

>>11507085
American u ;) ;)

[Anonymous No.11507160]

>>11503257
my fav kind of feminism for sure is the kind of feminism that regurgitates completely outdated capitalist social theory about how we can basically eliminate all power and make everyone into entirely free and entirely autonomous monads. my fav thing about my fav brand of feminism (tm) is how these loveless cat ladies who swallow down their birth control pills with white wine every morning are allowed to pretend that they are radicals who are genuinely critiquing the system. When in fact they are quite literally the end-goal of the worst aspects of the capitalist system

[Anonymous No.11507184]

>>11507087
>>11507093
No I'm really not mate lmao wish we had flags
are you? Why anyway, bit random?

[Anonymous No.11507278]

>>11503262
Are you a hyena, then?
>>11503269
Do you base that one anything other than your socially inept and autistic high school observations?
>>11503281
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis
Now you can learn the meaning of a few word you've been misusing your entire life.

[Anonymous No.11507401]

How did he manage to make war feel so damn comfy?

[Anonymous No.11508049]

>>11503150
No because 'Toxic Masculinity' (TM) is a feminist, misandrist hate-phrase. If someone's being an arsehole it isn't because of too much masculinity/femininity. They're just being an arsehole.