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/lit/ - Literature

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11474168 No.11474168 [Reply] [Original]

What's wrong with self-help books?

Give me actual reasons.

>> No.11474172

>>11474168
I hate myself and want to die faster and more miserable.

>> No.11474178

the "self" they "help" is the writer's, not yours

>> No.11474180

>>11474178
I don't need cheap one-liners. Give me a critique of self-help books.

>> No.11474192

>>11474168
It's for weaklings. Instead of them either killing themselves or actually becoming strong through their own strugglr they just do a few mental gymnastics to stave of their depression. Kinda like bugmen and superhero movies.

>> No.11474209

Americans are stupid and capitalism is bad.

>> No.11474212
File: 34 KB, 496x600, 1529753148832.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11474212

>>11474168
That fucking image gave me cancer jesus.
Absolutely nothing, if it genuinely pulls you out of a hole then thats good and it should be celebrated.

>> No.11474216

>>11474209
based and cvckpilled

>> No.11474905

Tell me.

>> No.11474909

>What's wrong with self-help books?
Nothing but they're not literature, and this is a literature board

>> No.11474914

>>11474909
Is non-fiction not literature then?

>> No.11474979

>>11474914
There is depth to the non fiction books discussed on lit. They explore thems in complex, analytic ways. Self help books on the other hand bluntly throw contrived rules in your face; they are clearly not literature.

>> No.11475004

I eas addicted to self-help material for years and it didnt do anything for me. Its just repeating the same basic things that you already know over and over. Clean your room, eat healthy, wake up early etc. Does anyone not know these things? Listening to self-help material gives you the illusion that you are doing something worthwhile, something usefull and it makes you feel good since you already agree with everything thats being said(like echo chambers).

>> No.11475495

>>11474979
>Self help books on the other hand bluntly throw contrived rules in your face;
Thanks I guess, I was looking for criticisms of them, I guess this is it. I personally only read a couple and came to the same conclusion - you can't improve your life by following some reductive rules. If you want to be a better person then educate yourself in all aspects of life: psychology to interact with others; philosophy to learn to think; and the sciences to learn to think critically.

>> No.11475499

>>11475004
>>11475004
>just repeating the same basic things that you already know over and over

I feel like most of the lessons (other than the practical stuff like "clean your room" and "wash your penis") are basically ideas recycled from Stoic/Eastern philosophy.

>> No.11475506

>>11474168
They don't fucking help. They are literally common sense spelled out to you. For example, the most famous book being how to win friends and influence people is so fucking brain-dead simple that it's not even worth the read, just smile and don't be a dickhead

>> No.11475574

>>11475506
This. The problem with most self help is that it is really simple shit (what up Mark manson).

At the same time, I think naysayers of the genre forget all the advice they've gotten, or forget all of the shit that they've had spelled out for them, or forget that (in my opinion) pretty much all books that you learn life lessons from could be extrapolated into "self help" (black swan anyone? Marcus Aurelius is another example).

Also, there's something pretty fucking shallow about the way 95% of self help is marketed and sold. You're just monetizing anxiety and depression, no matter how good your intentions are. Some self help books (like the law of attraction shit) are sickeningly cynical and stupid.

So yeah, self help books are for people who need shit spelled out for them. If it gets em reading I don't see what's wrong with that.

>> No.11475600

>>11474168
to the creator of this image - you realize that every single person in their mid-twenties goes through an existential crisis at some point, right? these are just 4chan interests bundled up into an incomprehensible image. how cynical can u be

>> No.11475611

>>11475506
>>11475574
Do you not think maybe the large majority of the audience is so thick they actually need that stuff spelled out for them?

>> No.11475638

You already know how to help yourself. There's no mystery to it. What you need is motivation.

>> No.11476075

>>11475638
What one really needs is to be scared enough, to suffer enough. Then the ascent starts. Not to get too JBP in here but why do you think Dante has to travel through hell to get to heaven

>> No.11476080

>>11474168
That's quite a loaded question.

>> No.11476088

>>11474168
they're advice is the same old useless bucko shit, just listen to your parents for once and you'll hear the same thing

>> No.11476095

>>11475600
>4chan interests
Pretty sure this was made on Reddit. And no it isnt, plenty of people go through life crises with out turning into pic related pure cringe.

>> No.11476100

>>11474168
I think self help has the power to actually help some people. The problem is that the mere act of reading these books gives people the idea that they are improving themselves just by the mere act of reading, or even buying, them. It's a placebo effect where you feel like you're on the right track because you're learning how to improve yourself. And In some ways you are on the right track, but you're just dilly-rallying around the starting line and not making any actual forward progress

>> No.11476113

>>11474979
>>11474979
>Self help books on the other hand bluntly throw contrived rules in your face; they are clearly not literature.
Pretty much all eastern """"""""""""philosophy"""""""""""""" confirmed for not /lit/, as I always suspected.

>> No.11476132

>>11475499
>Stoic/Eastern philosophy
""""""""""""""philosophy""""""""""""""""""*
>>11475574
>(black swan anyone? Marcus Aurelius is another example
>implying black swan is not a self-help book
Meditations is also of similar literary merit, completely worthless other than for scholars.

>> No.11476148

>>11475611
Yeah that's exactly correct. I wasn't really insulting the genre.

People should just be aware that a well-read person won't really find some of those ideas groundbreaking. You could say that about any book though. It's a grey scale.

>> No.11476157

>>11474168
12 Rules is just shit, that's all.

>> No.11476163

>>11476095
who cares? I'm just saying why draw all these conclusions based on some imagined stereotype designed to make insecure people even more insecure. why the fuck is tfwnogf on there. why is there a fuckin rick and morty reference. stop making generalizations about people and trying to predict people's interests based on the single slice you know of them.

>> No.11476174

>>11476132
reading comprehension? I was calling both of those books self help. theyre just a sexier version of it, which you could say for many many many books.

>> No.11476191

>>11474168
Gravity's Rainbow

>> No.11476200

>>11475600
it sounds like eric lmao

>> No.11476231

>>11476163
>Why is rick and mort on there
Yeah like I said it was made on Reddit.

The thing is...it wasnt indsideous. It wasnt a "god I hate these people" post it was something like early 20something starter pack, and it was made explicitly to be relatable, any negative connotations you have of those things are your own. People, I think, loved it like "oh god thats SO me!!" kind of way. They loved it.

I guess theres a point to be made about how the two sites interpret this thing, one really positively, one negatively, but to be honest I fucking hate that picture too and Im proud I dont fit on it.

>> No.11476295
File: 168 KB, 1920x1080, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11476295

>>11476231
>Yeah like I said it was made on Reddit.
well then why are you posting it here?

>> No.11476310

>>11476295
Im not OP.
Im assuming OP posted it because the people who relate to that list are the most likely to consume self help books.

>> No.11476324
File: 14 KB, 187x269, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11476324

>>11476310
yeah that makes sense

>> No.11476337

>>11476231
I think most starter pack memes self deprecating

>> No.11476338

>>11474168
they are written by mentally ill people who need self-help books.

>> No.11476353

>>11474168
Nothing. It just impinges on the domain of more traditional self-help routes. New Agers who practice religions/occult shit hardcore don't like them because it makes what they do seem pointless (e.g., what read through thousands of pages of fluff fill with stupid rituals and metaphors when the important points can be summarized in a few paragraphs.)

>> No.11476360

>>11476338
lol probably the most accurate thing ITT

>> No.11476378

>>11474168
How can a picture describe myself so accurately, this is scary.

I mean the politics and some other is a bit wrong, but even the watch I am wearing and laptop I am using is spot on.

>> No.11476388

>>11476353
but, at the same time, shouldn't people who have lived those experiences be the ones who tell others how to get over them?

>> No.11476393

>>11476378
It's like a shit form of cold reading (as if it wasn't shit enough). It's so fucking broad and general in what it includes that it might as well not exist at all.

>> No.11476409

>>11476378
Congratulations, you built all your preferences around the consensus found on image boards. Try thinking for yourself once in a while. I really hope you're not older than 25.

>> No.11476420

>>11476393
But it hit all the specifics, aside from watch and laptop it nailed down what I am studying, how I feel about it even down to the fucking pencil I am using.
The picture is even quite specific.

>>11476409
Well, what other consensus should I built around?
Thinking for myself is too hard, also if I am 25 and still like this I will kill myself out of shame, 5 years might be enough time, but who knows.

>> No.11476457
File: 1.38 MB, 335x352, 1518466395882.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11476457

>>11476420
>Thinking for myself is too hard
Yes, it requires effort, but I'm telling you that it's better to realize that if you don't try before it's too late you will find yourself completely adrift one day. Of course there is comfort in being like others, but you will regret not acting and desiring instead of just being and accepting. Trust me, I know.

>> No.11476479

>>11476457
That might be one of the things I have to learn before I stop being the manifestation of a meme image.

>> No.11476545

>>11476420
>The picture is even quite specific.
It's not specific, just perfectly generic. You just happen to fit in well. It's like the original virgin walk-meme; it was so generic that almost anyone could've fit in.

>> No.11477509

stop making this thread

>> No.11477512

>>11474168
it's selfish

>> No.11477518

>>11477509
When Eric has his mind set on something he does it for years

>> No.11478055

>>11474168
>tfw almost EVERYTHING checked in this picture

How do I get out of this pit, /lit/? Please?

>> No.11478074
File: 128 KB, 1069x1600, athletic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11478074

>>11474168
A lot of them are actually good and useful. They should probably be self-help wikipedia articles or memes. Read the wikipedia entry of GTD. It's a super useful methodology. I don't need a whole book for this.

>> No.11478077

Needs Evangelion. Then again supposedly this was made on Reddit so it makes sense that it was excluded

>> No.11478086

>>11478055
Holy fuck, it's so relatable, like, 90% of this. I am basically in fear.

>> No.11478106

>>11478086
90% generic too

>> No.11478124

If it's existential self-help, rather than How to brush your teeth etc, it assumes the human soul is a fgt

One way or another, this is true

>> No.11478144

>>11478124
what about if i want to learn about why to wash my peanis?

>> No.11478238

>>11478144
It's okay

It's okay

>> No.11478239

fuck all of us

>> No.11478364

>>11478077
if evan was on this it would fit so perfectly i'd have to kill myself. fuck why are young white guys with brown hair so easy to clock

>> No.11478376

>>11474168
They're better off reading Nietzsche

>> No.11478481

>>11474180
If they worked there wouldn't be so many of them.

>> No.11478484

>>11474168
You have to be a so᠌yboy to appreciate them

>> No.11478976

>>11474168
That image is one of the few in /r/ starterpacks that really recieved insults.
It seems it hit the reddit crowd too well

>> No.11479033

>>11476420
People who are worth a damn tend to grow a lot in those years imo

>> No.11479118
File: 221 KB, 1080x668, Screenshot_20180718-094822~2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11479118

Its not all bad. But most of it is terrible.

>> No.11479145

>>11474168
They target vulnerable people to sell them shit that they don't really need. The way out of being a loser and happiness is going out of your room and getting what you want, not compulsively buying books thinking that the last one had the secret that the previous 200 missed.

Being addicted to self improvement is a very real thing, you think you are a loser, therefore you buy and read a book about not being a loser, and when you are doing whatever the book told you, you think

>God I'm such a loser, normal people don't have to spend their time talking to themselves in a mirror or doing stupid breathing exercises or whatever. I'm even more fucked up than I thought.

Then you feel bad about thinking you are a loser, and you buy another book about it.

It's a vicious cicle, I just got out of it a few weeks ago and I'm doing far better than ever. I'll keep meditating and lifting, but I won't do all the other bullshit.

>> No.11479161

>>11479118
Source?

>> No.11479162

>>11479145
... that's kinda strange approach

>> No.11479163

>>11474168
Should a simple textbook considered a self-help book?

>> No.11479175

>>11479162
Don't get me wrong, most people have a healthy relationship with self improvement, they read a couple of books and that's it; and their lives improve a bit.

Others get addicted, those are the guys who go to seminars, hire coaches and all that stupid stuff because they don't accept themselves. The industry needs more self awareness about this issue.

>> No.11479310

>>11474168
I read the meme one (how to win friends) and petersons book and it's essentially just a complicated way of delivering common sense to you, the most depressed faggot in the world knows what he SHOULD do, the problem is that he can't do it even if he wanted to cause he's mentally ill. thats the problem with these books, its just a way to commercially exploit vulnerable people.

That being said, some are worse than others. There are some books that teach you how to do a form of cognitive behavioural therapy on yourself which im sure is actually helpful for those that do it.

>> No.11479326

>>11474168
I'm proud to report that this image is almost completely unrelatable to me.

>> No.11480219

>>11479161
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=00E803A983B71465E153B336E5A7A299

>> No.11480335
File: 150 KB, 902x668, Snap1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11480335

Lol

>> No.11480361

>>11474168
This image is so specific that it can only possibly describe the person who made it

>> No.11480388

>>11474168
The insights they contain were better articulated by the ancients who discovered them first. They're basically just a "greatest hits" collection of Greek and Roman ethics but simplified so that normies can easily digest them.

>> No.11480438

>>11480388
Give examples of books to learn about those ethics please

>> No.11480444

>>11476075
Literally this. I saw an interview with Marco Pierre White where he said that his motivation to work as hard as he did in order to accomplish what he did came from the fact that he was basically perceived as retarded for being unable to read or write as a kid. Going through hell and coming out the other side gives you almost infinite motivation.

>> No.11480460

>>11480438
There's no real shortcut. Just start reading the Western philosophical canon. The Stoics and Cynics had some of the best thoughts regarding how to live a good life, but you have understand where they were coming from, which can take years of continual study

>> No.11480473

>>11480438
Start with Epictetus and Seneca

>> No.11480496

>>11480473
Thanks. Seneca the elder or jr (new to all of this)?

>> No.11480516

>>11480496
The younger. "On the Shortness of Life" is great, and can be read in less than an hour

>> No.11480562

you can give more by just listing things to do than most self help books do in paragraphs

>> No.11480927

They're overly simplistic and often miss entirely the reasons that doom people to failure.