Postcolonialism/Orientalism

[Anonymous No.11467765]

Does anyone have a flowchart or recommended readings for post-colonialist theory (both general and, if possible, specifically Orientalist theory)?

[Anonymous No.11468336]

bump

[Anonymous No.11468353]

Orientalism
Culture and Imperialism
Can the Subaltern Speak?
The Wretched of the Earth
Black Skin White Masks

I'm sure there's something by/about Mao you could read, but I wouldn't know it off the top of my head. Things Fall Apart is also a great novel on the subject matter.

[Anonymous No.11468365]

>>11468353
You could honestly take Said's work, look at his critics and probably derive a fairly decent amount of potential reading material on the subject OP.

[Anonymous No.11468406]

Interesting thread.

[Anonymous No.11468621]

>>11468353
Thank you! I enjoyed Things Fall Apart, have you read Season of Migration to the North by Tayeb Salih? I thought it was excellent and Said praised it as one of the most important Arabic-language books. It's basically a reverse Heart of Darkness

[Anonymous No.11468627]

>>11468365
Cheers mate

[Anonymous No.11468655]

>>11468627

[Anonymous No.11468731]

>>11468655

[Anonymous No.11469455]

>>11467765
Just read Said’s work, the Indian thinkers (Spivak’s Do the Subaltern Speak? at least), and the major authors (Naipaul, Rushdie, Basedinka, Walcott, Rhys, Kincaid, etc.)

Maybe read a history of Latin America as well - their strain of post-colonialism is an entire world unto itself.

[Anonymous No.11469680]

>>11469455
>no James Joyce in the list of major post-colonialist authors

[Anonymous No.11470648]

>>11467765
Look into Francis Jeanson, he has a couple of books on the subject

[Anonymous No.11471159]

>>11470648
Thanks, will do.

[Anonymous No.11471204]

>>11469680
OP here, Just read Ulysses in June and I loved the part about the broken mirror representing subaltern cultures!

[Anonymous No.11471943]

>>11471204
Tell us more?

[Anonymous No.11471963]

Threadly reminder: Postcolonialism is really just crypto-ethnonationalism.

[Anonymous No.11471991]

Just read Things Fall Apart if you want to know how evil the white man is

[Anonymous No.11472016]

>>11471963
This. This is why the left will be burned by its own revolution.

[Anonymous No.11472028]

>>11471963
isn't nationalism an eurocentric ideology as well?

[Anonymous No.11472069]

>>11467765
I only know of James C. Scott

[Anonymous No.11472072]

Postcolonial Theory and the Specter of Capital by Vivek Chibber

[Anonymous No.11472075]

>>11471963
It is, though I think that nationalism is not a bad thing by itself.

[Anonymous No.11472084]

Any reccs on settler colonialism?

[Anonymous No.11472091]

>>11472028
no the critique of nationalism is

[Anonymous No.11472107]

>>11471963
hot take: postcolonial studies were financed by the CIA and the ford foundation to undermine third world revolution by entrapping a periphereal intelligentsia of mostly neurotic petty bourgeoisie extraction within the therapeutic and academic production mechanisms of the imperial core.

[Anonymous No.11472128]

>>11471943
Basically the mirror represents a realist aesthetic which only reproduces a degraded colonial environment. The unbroken mirror epitomizes the preening vanity of the colonial overlord while the cracked mirror epitomizes the self-hatred of the colonial subject and the shattering of coherent identity as a result of colonialism. This is what Stephen means when he talks about the cracked mirror being the symbol of Ireland.

[Anonymous No.11472132]

>>11472091
both nations and nation states are european inventions. muhammad iqbal for example suggested the middle eastern peoples' equality in islam as counter to the western concept of nationalism.

[Anonymous No.11472794]

>>11472128
Interesting. Should I read the book?

[Anonymous No.11472849]

>>11472107
But then why is it so popular in the West?

Isn't it partly a sincere look at history (the colonial powers did some pretty awful shit), and partly over the top white guilt ("oh terrorism is bad but actually the U. S. is really responsible for every bad thing ever!!!")?

[Anonymous No.11472977]

>>11472107
It's quite ingenious when you consider feminism, individualism, multiculturalism, homosexual and transgender tolerance, and open borders and free immigration, all stem from Liberalism, which is intrinsically eurocentric. SJW's don't realize they are playing into the hands of Western Imperialism and hegemony that they so much despise when they identify and fight in favor of these policies.

[Anonymous No.11473003]

>>11468353
Some others recs I have are Discourses on colonialism and venas abiertas de América latina

[Anonymous No.11473028]

>>11472091
>>11472132

westerners supporting maoism or islamism for 'anti-imperialist' reasons comes off as clueless LARPing most of the time tbhh.

[Anonymous No.11473036]

>>11472849
>But then why is it so popular in the West?
it's a means of quarantining the opposition within a purely academic discursive plane while keeping the actual chains of resource extraction intact. A leader like Justin Trudeau is nothing more than a corporate PR agen.

[Anonymous No.11473047]

>>11472794
I mean interesting postcolonial stuff aside, you absolutely should. It's a slog to read but its great stuff

[Anonymous No.11473227]

>>11468655
>pic
Are you too awaiting the day the n - 1 empire is rolled back out of the Mediterranean?

[Anonymous No.11473504]

>>11471963
>tfw you will never have friends this based

[Anonymous No.11473534]

>>11472107
not a sizzling take desu. even some grad students themselves understand their position in literally state-sponsored shelter (in the sense schools and scholarships are publicly funded). ive found a significant number to be quite naive though and unironically believe their thesis, which four people might read on a good day, is the bleeding edge of liberation

[Anonymous No.11474246]

>>11473047
Will do then!

[Anonymous No.11474259]

>>11467765

>You will never light a smoke after smiting brown heathens in battle and taking dominion over their exotic land, all for the glory of your country

[Anonymous No.11474355]

>>11472132
The Arab countries are tribal as all fuck

[Anonymous No.11474415]

>>11474355
Tribalism is not the same thing as nationalism

[Anonymous No.11474417]

>>11474259
Upvoted, my fellow Kekistani

[Anonymous No.11474444]

>>11468621
I did not understand that book one little bit.

Seconding Black Skin White Masks; I'm halfway through right now and it's a hell of a read. It's half bullshit of course, but it's a window into an era.

[Anonymous No.11474575]

>>11473036
Why is it when pressed you guys always end up spouting off unprovable conspiracy theory tier shit?

>well uh AKTUALLY it’s just capitalism using commodification in order to trick you!!

[Anonymous No.11474603]

>>11474575
>"capitalism" has agency and is doing things
lol reification got you good

[Anonymous No.11474780]

>>11474603
See shit like this.
The vague academic pseudery jargon that builds its own internal logic for explaining everything in the world.

[Anonymous No.11474799]

>>11474780
That was the joke. I even partly agree with you, but if you seriously engaged with Marxist philosophy and saw past some of the jargon, you'd find that it has quite a lot of explanatory value.

[Anonymous No.11474805]

>>11474799
Oh I’m not saying that, I actually kinda like a lot of the pre-60’s marxists, even if I have disagreements.

I feel like the excessive jargon filled internal logic thing started after that. If you replaced capitalism/colonialism with “Jews”, 95% of it would read like a post on /pol/.

[Anonymous No.11474830]

>>11474805
The difference is that antisemites can't give you any deeper explanation than "da joos!!1!" and will at most post some unsourced infographic, while Marxists will hit you with a mile-long paragraph of that Hegelian meme magic, which more often than not contains some good points, even if it could've been said in a simpler way.

[Anonymous No.11474850]

>>11474830
>implying Marxists even care about Hegel anymore

I don't think I'd even call what's in academia Marxism at this point. It's this weird neo-liberal progressive democratic socialism activism thing. It built itself on earlier Marxist critique systems, but for the life of me I can't see how any of them are even remotely Marxist.

The most I ever see Hegel mentioned anymore is just a name drop and some vague reference to the Slave-Master bit in Philosophy of Right. Adorno is considered a fascist now for instance.

[Anonymous No.11475131]

Is orientalism a new form or romanticism?

[Anonymous No.11475191]

>>11474805
>>11474830
>Implying it isn't actually about the Jews.

[Anonymous No.11475292]

>>11475131
>new

eh? and yes

[Anonymous No.11475517]

>>11475292
I got this impression that the biggest representation of this romanticism is the popularization of oriental stories like The 1001 Nights and some charismatic people like Lawrence of Arabia, or even Mata Hari. And definitely western fiction like Dune got his part.

Of course this seems almost dead by now but I am intrigued what could have been if the west keep the track and evolved orientalism into his own thing, beyond foreign and incorporating parts into western culture and aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.11475804]

>>11468353
This is a really good list but I would add On thr Postcolony by Mbembe

[Anonymous No.11475866]

>>11467765
Pheng cheah
Foucault

[Anonymous No.11476559]

bump

[Anonymous No.11476583]

>>11474415
Nationalism developed in Europe out of tribalism, only islamists (and they're usually arabs as well) at their most reductive would assert Afghan's never developed their own national identity

[Anonymous No.11476708]

Would pynchon count?

[Anonymous No.11476765]

OP here, thanks to everyone for the reccs so far! Glad to see there are other people on this board enthusiastic about postcolonialism!

[Anonymous No.11476810]

>>11476765
I am more enthusiastic about orientalism myself.

[Anonymous No.11476927]

>>11476810
Even better

[Anonymous No.11476960]

>>11474850
i think the real marxists should join forces with fascists and islamists against the imperialistic forces of managerial liberalism and the so called lgbt community

[Anonymous No.11476974]

>>11476960
Marx opposed reactionary anti-capitalism even more than liberalism

[Anonymous No.11476985]

>people itt thinking nationalism is a western invention when east asia and the middle east exist

[Anonymous No.11476994]

>>11476960
>>11476985
Interesting. Try posting about it in the conservative threads now. Agreed.

[Anonymous No.11476995]

>>11476985
Nationalism didn’t exist before the French Revolution. Racism and tribalism are not the same thing as nationalism.

[Anonymous No.11477044]

>>11476960
>mfw superior neoliberal and ideology cucks get resentful at you dragging the world into its most prosperous era

[Anonymous No.11477104]

I highly recommend The Radiance of the King by Camara Laye. It is classified as a piece of colonial literature (per wiki/amazon), however I can tell you from experience that it fits the category of post-colonial equally well.
Some other books of interest:
The Satanic Verses - Rushie
A Man of the People - Achebe
The Stranger - Camus
A Small Place - Kincaid
Interpreter of Maladies - Lahiri

If you're willing to stray slightly from strict post-colonialism, Underdevelopment is a State of Mind (by Lawrence Harrison) details the experience of an USAID Mission Director working in numerous Latin American countries. It is an interesting insight and I don't know of any other books with a similar premise.

[Anonymous No.11477197]

>>11477044
Neoliberals hate ancaps

[Anonymous No.11477210]

>>11467765
Does Dugin count as a postcolonial author?

[Anonymous No.11477526]

>>11471963
Recommendations for books that point this out?

[Anonymous No.11477535]

>>11472084
Mason & Dixon

[Anonymous No.11477540]

>>11476974
I am afraid you are wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question

[Anonymous No.11477544]

>>11471963
Also:

Any ideology that starts with the word Pan-, is always supremacist, racist and imperialist.

[Anonymous No.11477548]

>>11477526
>>11477535

[Anonymous No.11477577]

>>11477544
What does that make of pansexuality?

[Anonymous No.11477602]

>>11477577
Is pansexuality an ideology? I'm pretty it's a sexual proclivity.

[Anonymous No.11477743]

>>11477602
What about in the context of LGBTQ+ as ideology?

[Anonymous No.11477871]

>>11477743
It suggests that LGB and all its derivatives are icing on a cake baked from the following ingredients: suppression, shame, fear, and desire to control others, all to feed the eternally gaping maw of a collective ego that wants nothing but more, more more, and will never cease devouring everything in its path, even its own.

[Anonymous No.11477899]

>>11477871
>all to feed the eternally gaping maw of a collective ego that wants nothing but more, more more, and will never cease devouring everything in its path, even its own.
So, when do you think pedophiles and zoophiles will be assimilated in this alphabet soup ideology?

[Anonymous No.11478321]

>>11473534
Hey, my name is Ian. How can I make a thesis which is the bleeding edge of liberation?

[Anonymous No.11478410]

>>11477899
it's not the alphabet soup that's the danger, and x-philes are a red herring. It's like if you blame someone who doesn't wash their hands for getting cholera. Sure, technically they could have washed their hands, but the cholera was there in the first place because of a far larger issue. It's ideology as such, existing like a parasite on the carcass of a religious substrate that's been supplanted by a scientific method that proclaims itself the new Demiurge. It's the collective unconscious, instantiated in a thousand multifaceted shadow forms, mobilized as western society convulses in the birth throes of a new realm of consciousness.

And thinking that we have any control over it whatsoever is absurd. The only thing you can do, other than try and fix yourself and live your own life, is try to fix other people. Which always works out super well, go for it.

[Anonymous No.11478472]

>>11478410
>The only thing you can do, other than try and fix yourself and live your own life, is try to fix other people. Which always works out super well, go for it.
Nah, you can have this doomed world; I don't want it anymore. As for me, I will practice jnana yoga and realize my atman with brahman to achieve moksha. Fuck y'all, I'm outta here!

[Anonymous No.11478935]

>>11473534
t. someone whose thesis was rejected