/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11407898]

/lit/, give me you're honest opinion on this book. I don't want Reddit tier favouritism or 9gag tier contrarianism, I want to know your unbiased ,impartial opinion on it. I know it isn't a wonder from a purely literary standpoint, the language is deliberately simple , but I genuinely believe the ideas presented through this book are still quite thought provoking, if you can actually manage to properly read between the lines and know which parts to take literally and which are just meant to be metaphors.

[Anonymous No.11407915]

>>11407898
I enjoyed reading it. Really hits the nail on the head. After reading this you know the intention of authoritarian systems and on which principles they preserve their power

[Anonymous No.11407935]

I didn't read it lol :^)
Hate speech = thought crime
Political correctness = newspeak
Internet = telescreen
Banning holocaust denial = doublethink

[Anonymous No.11407972]

>>11407898
It's good. I prefer Orwell's non-fiction though.

[Anonymous No.11407974]

>>11407898
>tier
you are reddit

[Anonymous No.11407986]

Its a useful intro to the subject, but too many use it as a definitive guidebook to all the problems with government.

If you only read 1984 you will have a very skewed idea about how corruption operates in the real world

[Anonymous No.11408003]

I would say it very closely resembles communist dictatorships today.

[Anonymous No.11408010]

>>11407898
It is a really good, but a little simplistic, exploration of the topic

[Anonymous No.11408022]

>>11407935
>DAE LIBTARDS = LITERALLY STALIN? BTW HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG LOL

[Anonymous No.11408032]

>>11407898
Everyone in this thread is talking about how accurate it is or isn't to real world governments but I think you're all missing the point. This is a dystopian book, it's supposed to exaggerate and deviate from some of the real world conditions. I personally prefer to take the books message in a broader sense , most importantly the part about how the only true way to subdue the population of a country is to deprive them of thought, and how our perception of life around us ( and of the past ) is heavily dependent on the medium of viewing, rarely is it something absolutely true. As for a literary standpoint, the prose and vocabulary are rather simplistic and dull but he uses duality and antithesis pretty well.

[Anonymous No.11408038]

>>11407935
Go back to /pol/ faggot

[Anonymous No.11408050]

>>11408003
Which ones

[Anonymous No.11408070]

>>11408050
The one who denied anything ever happened in Tiananmen Square?
The one who tells their starving people that the state is envied by the evil imperialists around the world and that their leader is the most beautiful man alive?
The many who put you to death, jail or camps for wrongthink (criticizing the government)?

[Anonymous No.11408083]

>>11408032
The reason so many people feel a need to point out how it isnt perfectly representative of any society is because so many more people try and say it is.
1984 and comparisons to the real world (both accurate or excessive) are the entire legacy of the book

[Anonymous No.11408085]

>>11408070
Denying massacres? You mean the US / Israel?
Telling starving people that the state is envied by the evil enemies? You mean every south-american military junta backed by the US?
Once again, the hundreds of military dictatorship backed by western "democractic" powers?
State communism isn't communism, this is something Orwell agreed with as well.

[Anonymous No.11408381]

>>11407935
That's nice, now actually read the book and come back when you realize how stupid this post makes you look. Alternatively: >>11408038

[Anonymous No.11408420]

Huxley is the superior. In both story structure and prose. And also has a more sound approximation of what the downfall of the human spirit will be: obviously hedonism. Yet no no no noooooo, always this schizophrenic depiction of the MAN always watching you. Dystopia futures? We are still sliding headfirst into the huxlian model of it, it's still culturally relevant today. But nooooooo we have to talk about 1984 again.

[Anonymous No.11408458]

>>11408070
Think again I think. I mean I hate china just as like you but right now trump is president doing some doublethink relativism

[Anonymous No.11408537]

I had put off reading 1984 for the longest time because I felt that I was already familiar with the story and expected it to have pretty much the depth of the Apple commercial. Also personally I am anti-liberalism and pro-authoritarianism.

However when I finally read it I was pleasantly surprised. I think it has an intellectually honest exploration of the metaphysical premises of the political ideas. Idealism vs realism etc.

Even though they are obviously depicted as a dystopia and some of their policies seem to exist for no reason other than to make their world more dystopic, there are actually more rational arguments to be found for ingsoc than against it in the book.

[Anonymous No.11408608]

>>11408537
uh bro no

[Anonymous No.11408630]

>>11408608
ya-huh m8

[Anonymous No.11408640]

unironically 5/5 and the best book I've read this year

so glad I didn't get it ruined for me in school

brilliant concepts and final twists, solid prose to keep it enjoyable even in the more lowkey parts

although I will say, people who claim modern society is even close to what's portrayed in the book are retarded

however, certain ideas in it are in fact being implemented in shit countries such as North Korea, Russia, the Middle East etc.

[Anonymous No.11408660]

It's very thought provoking and at times I felt just as helpless as someone actually living in this fictional land of "Oceania"...there is no doubt that this novel is extremely important for post-war literature and as a critique aimed towards totalitarianism

That being said, I expected a lot more from it. The story, albeit very original and believable, boils down to essentially just "look how terrible totalitarianism is, don't you feel pathetic and hopeless just reading about this caricature of it?". The characters matter very little and even the main character is completely forgettable because his background isn't fleshed out completely (you get a couple of scenes describing how he was a spoiled brat and how he hated his wife). This is why I believe the novel didn't age well. Most of the concepts presented in the novel are already very familiar to us living in 2018 and have been referenced a gorillion times before because apparently people think you gain IQ points when you reference 1984 and Orwell's work in general.

All in all, you don't read it as a "bildungsroman" (typical character development novel), because the characters don't matter, you read it for the political commentary and what is essentially Orwell's warning against communism which was growing rapidly as an ideology back in the day.

[Anonymous No.11408920]

>>11407898
Perfect ending

[Anonymous No.11408923]

>>11407898
still waiting for the sequel

[Anonymous No.11409046]

>>11408085
Thank you. It is still going on. Libya is a good example.

>>11407898
I read it when I was 18. It had me utterly submerged and unable to stop reading. What they call a page turner. Like noted elsewhere it is not a literary masterpiece like other works of the time, and it is often abused to discredit whichever govt you dont like, but it's still great. And a lot of it's predictions came through, just as much in the western world as the eastern/commie world.

The thing though, these weren't predictions. He was writing about the time he lived in, and created an exaggerated dystopia based on that. He wrote it in 1948 after having fought in the spanish civil war, and later being a doubble agent for soviet and britain. Go figure.

Orwell's oevre is usually mistaken for prophecies and similar. It's not. It's all documentary of what he saw. So there is really no comparison to huxleys "visions"

[Anonymous No.11409171]

>>11407898
When I read it in school I framed the story as being in a world very different from ours seeing it as a depiction of society that we had dodged.

I re-read it and now see how it hit the nail on the head and we essentially live in 1984 as the regular plebs in the book.

[Anonymous No.11409240]

Obligatory

[Anonymous No.11409253]

>>11407935
This but unironically

[Anonymous No.11409514]

>>11407898
Over-rated. We by Zamyatin is so, so much better. Anyone who tries to tell you this is a good book hasn't read enough.

[Anonymous No.11409525]

Wrightwood. Cal.
21 October, 1949

Dear Mr. Orwell,

It was very kind of you to tell your publishers to send me a copy of your book. It arrived as I was in the midst of a piece of work that required much reading and consulting of references; and since poor sight makes it necessary for me to ration my reading, I had to wait a long time before being able to embark on Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Agreeing with all that the critics have written of it, I need not tell you, yet once more, how fine and how profoundly important the book is. May I speak instead of the thing with which the book deals --- the ultimate revolution? The first hints of a philosophy of the ultimate revolution --- the revolution which lies beyond politics and economics, and which aims at total subversion of the individual's psychology and physiology --- are to be found in the Marquis de Sade, who regarded himself as the continuator, the consummator, of Robespierre and Babeuf. The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it. Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World. I have had occasion recently to look into the history of animal magnetism and hypnotism, and have been greatly struck by the way in which, for a hundred and fifty years, the world has refused to take serious cognizance of the discoveries of Mesmer, Braid, Esdaile, and the rest.

Partly because of the prevailing materialism and partly because of prevailing respectability, nineteenth-century philosophers and men of science were not willing to investigate the odder facts of psychology for practical men, such as politicians, soldiers and policemen, to apply in the field of government. Thanks to the voluntary ignorance of our fathers, the advent of the ultimate revolution was delayed for five or six generations. Another lucky accident was Freud's inability to hypnotize successfully and his consequent disparagement of hypnotism. This delayed the general application of hypnotism to psychiatry for at least forty years. But now psycho-analysis is being combined with hypnosis; and hypnosis has been made easy and indefinitely extensible through the use of barbiturates, which induce a hypnoid and suggestible state in even the most recalcitrant subjects.

[Anonymous No.11409532]

>>11409525
Within the next generation I believe that the world's rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience. In other words, I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World. The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency. Meanwhile, of course, there may be a large-scale biological and atomic war --- in which case we shall have nightmares of other and scarcely imaginable kinds.

Thank you once again for the book.

Yours sincerely,

Aldous Huxley

[Anonymous No.11409563]

I found it to be an enjoyable book really. Although you could say it lacked in some parts. Helps give you an insight to how these types of authoritarian dictatorships work, and I'd also recommend this video as well. https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

[Anonymous No.11409572]

>>11407898
I think its ideas can be understood better by reading Willhelm Reich's Listen Little Man.

[Anonymous No.11409631]

>>11407898
>hold up let me defeat this all-consuming totalitarian regime with the power of sex-positivism
1984 is lowbrow dystopian smut, and doesn't come anywhere close to the lowbrow dystopian smut of Brave New World. It's a great social liberal victim/rebellion fantasy, I guess.

[Anonymous No.11409671]

Possibly the second most overrated book behind Gatsby

[Anonymous No.11409737]

>>11408420
stop being so god damn self-righteous. People like talking about 1984, big deal.

[Anonymous No.11409750]

>>11408660
this except your incorrect usage of "bildungsroman"

[Anonymous No.11409998]

I like it along with the other works of Orwell.

It does bother me that Americans say everything is communism or stupid shit like that. Like how they're saying that liberal democrat (socdems lol) is a communist when she's a liberal. Yikes. Americans are a blight.

[Anonymous No.11410761]

>>11409240
what the fuck is this

[Anonymous No.11410787]

Always struck me as a bit autistic, but you know what, so is totalitarianism

[Anonymous No.11411211]

>>11409240
what?

[Anonymous No.11411229]

>>11410787
*snap*

[Anonymous No.11411268]

>>11409631
>t. didn't read the book

[Anonymous No.11411481]

>>11408420
I really wish people would stop fixating so much on the liberal implications of a man watching you and realize it was more of a metaphor, for an authoritative government taking away citizens liberty in the name of "protecting them", and more importantly, I believe Orwell true nightmare was a population that was incapable of critical thought, who just submit to an institution they blindly believe in no matter what reality suggests. The real world implications of projecting propaganda onto citizens from a very young age are well described in the book.But I won't deny our one thing , based on structure and prose Huxley definitely is better. Orwell wanted the book to be simplistic in it's wording so that even the most simple-minded people could understand it.

[Anonymous No.11411487]

>>11410761
>>11411211
Read the book fags

[Anonymous No.11411503]

Would it be thought crime if I want sequel?

[Anonymous No.11411507]

>>11409253
Someone said it before, I'll say it again, go back to /pol/ faggots. People like you , using this book and Orwell in general to attack any political ideology you don't like, just because you think it makes our look smart, is exactly what causes this book to lose its credibility, you fucking brainlet

[Anonymous No.11411508]

>>11409563
that video is just The Prince

[Anonymous No.11411516]

>>11407898
Yeah it's good

[Anonymous No.11411523]

>>11407935
This is all true. (((Emmanuel Goldstein))), remember, no cohencidence, and Orwell was aware of it to an extent being in with the Fabien Society.

[Anonymous No.11411541]

>>11408640
>anime poster
>bluepilled
Color me surprised.

[Anonymous No.11412106]

>>11407898
I read 1984 and I personaly love it more than this board would recommend. The book may be written simple, but this isen't bad, because Orwell wasen't trying to write unreadable garbage with hard langue, he was trying to make a good story for a political standpoint, that being, his anti-authoritharian posicion. You may criticize Orwell for ignoring many forms of authoritarianism and focusing too much on some, but this isen't the point. The book most of all is about how totitalitarianism desumanizes the individual, destroys society, and makes life mireserable. It's okay that people quote 1984 all the time and more often than not use it as a political weapon against their political adversaries, but realy, they do this anything, so why should you care? The point in the book is to warn people of how dangerous and miserable is the lack of freedom and the totalitarian regimes.
The modern day comparisons too aren't nowhere near as exagerated as some people like to put. Althought >>11407935 may look like a jerk with his "didn't read" and spitting the comparisons, they are all truth. This is least a question of left x right and more a question of freedom being in attack by political forces, and if they happen to be left-wing, dosen't change the fact that all these stuff left-wingers now-a-days like to say are just the same as in 1984.
Orwell always wrote political posicions and statements, this was his literary style, there is nothing wrong in this, because several political books are well written, interesting and, dare I say, revolutionary. The fact is quoted so much isen't because is bad, is because is good. It isen't modern escapist fiction of YA or so on, is literary landmark, because it too helped popularize the distopian setting and the anti-authoritharian mindset in several people.
Do read it. It's a great book. If not for the messages, for the style and the simple but enjoyable read. Don't fall for /lit/ hatred for popular novels.

[Anonymous No.11412127]

Best villain speech at the end I’ve ever read

[Anonymous No.11412156]

It's not very nuanced or especially prescient in its portrayal of a totalitarian society. The world of 1984 is not a place that we can realistically reach, I think. It remains however a compelling look at the total defeat the human spirit. No matter how often I read it, I find it depressingly bleak. Even if the world of 1984 is fantasy, I'm not sure about the the state of the human spirit that Orwell describes. I want to believe we'll never get to that point, but I'm not sure.

[Anonymous No.11412161]

>>11408640
>in shit countries such as the Middle East