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11377115 No.11377115 [Reply] [Original]

best translation/edition of anna karenina?

>> No.11377174

google translation

>> No.11377181

>>11377174
kek

>> No.11377183

>>11377115
u already know the answer. why are u asking it?

>> No.11377198

>>11377183
i cant decide between P&V and maude

>> No.11377199

>>11377174
based

"All happy families are alike, each unhappy family is unhappy
by his own.Everything was confused in the Oblonsky house. The wife learned that her husband was in connection with the former in their house Frenchwoman governess, and announced to her husband that she could not living with him in one house."

>> No.11377462

>>11377198
go with P&V they are generally the best for Russian stuff

>> No.11377718

>>11377462
>All was confusion in the Oblonskys' house.
>>>>>All was confusion
Truly a traductological masterpiece

>> No.11378306

>>11377198
P&V SUCK ASS WHY TF DO PEOPLE PRETEND THEYRE GOOD? Is it just to lure people into having a bad time with the book?

Go with maude or anthony or garnett or edmonda. P&V are so bad

>> No.11378399

>>11377199
This is literally just the P&V translation

>> No.11378604

As a general rule ignore older translations, they tend to be clunkier and have a lot of Victorianisms in the translation

>> No.11378716

>>11378604
>Victorianisms are bad

Dude if anything they translate really well. It feels like its a translation of the russian, like you're "hearing" the russian but readin the translated subtitles, rather than that theyre speaking english. Victorianisms also typically make for a better use of the english language, instead of mid 20th century "slang".

>> No.11378781

>>11378604
Such a bad rule

>> No.11378865

>>11378716
>Dude if anything they translate really well. It feels like its a translation of the russian, like you're "hearing" the russian but readin the translated subtitles, rather than that theyre speaking english. Victorianisms also typically make for a better use of the english language, instead of mid 20th century "slang".
No they were just conforming to the readership tastes of their time rather than translating the author's actual voice

Older translations often contain outright errors. They also change and leave passages out that they didn't understand or thought might offend Victorian sensibilities.

>> No.11378931

>>11378865
... yeah of like kama sutra and texts like that, not fuckin tolstoy or dostoyevsky unless its some randy pre-garnett pre-maude.

Garnett did only fuck up karamazov brothers, while p&v fucked up literally all works of russian lit. (Cept crime and punishment, that one is actually p good in p&v)

Also
>conforming to reader's taste / not translating the author's real voice

This is that bullshit non-argument people who either don't know wtf they're talking about or people who have buyer's remorse from purchasing/reading p&v use.

The reason translated sentences differ (albeit slightly) from original russian sentences is to make them readable and enjoyable. Garnett and Maude and Briggs all stay faithful to the author's real voice - cept briggs use cockney accents for lower class characters which is awful of him - and they feel much more like youre reading what tolstoy or dosto wrote. It is a necessary evil to change some formulations here and there, but they all read the same despute all of them starting from scratch and not basing their translations on previous translator's.

This "author's real voice" is some straight up pretentious turbopseud bullshit.

Tolstoy approved of Maude and Maude reads like all other acclaimed 20th century translations, except p&v. P&v literally reads like a google translate piece from yesteryear.

>> No.11379020

>>11378931
>Garnett did only fuck up karamazov brothers
I've hated every Garnett translation that I tried. Nabokov also hated her and I am inclined to agree with him because he was a native Russian speaker and trained in translation.
>Tolstoy approved of Maude
It means nothing, Tolstoy was not a translator of Russian into English texts

>> No.11379097

>>11379020
He knew english and he knew prose. Also your clinging to what Nabokov thinks makes your own opinions moot, since they arent real

>> No.11379102

>>11379020
Aaaaaand by fuck up i meant she fucked up the story, got some things wrong. Her peose is still excellent.

Nabokov would fucking despise P&V for the matter

>> No.11379138

>>11378931
Yeah, all that shit about preserving the original sentence structure is retarded. What may be perfectly natural, correct Russian would not be natural English if the structure of the original was exactly preserved. The only time you should translate something into awkward English is when the Russian (or whatever language) is awkward as well

>> No.11379267

>>11379138
I agree. preferred translations for dostoevsky and op?

>> No.11379335

>>11379267
P&V, they are the closest at capturing the author's voice and intentions

>> No.11379365

Jesus, I thought that was a woman lying on her back with her legs up at a 45 degree angle and flowers sticking our of her ass or pussy

>> No.11379369

>>11379335
>>11377718

>> No.11379404

>>11379267
>>11379335
Lol he just agreed hes not into the direct translations such as P&V.

Go with Maude, Briggs or Edmonds anon

>> No.11379512

>>11379404
he said they're the closest at capturing the author's voice and intention which =/= direct translation

direct translations to me are what he says here >>11379138
>preserving the original sentence structure to the point of it being unnatural in the new language it's being translated into

>> No.11379551

>>11377115
Go with Maude. Tolstoy could read/write English and approved their translations before he died. P&V is a tone-deaf moneygrab.

>> No.11379561

>>11377115
Ignore P&V, or as I like to call them, pussy and vagina

>> No.11379597

>>11379512
... which is what p&v do

>> No.11379664

>>11379597
ok sorry

>> No.11379667

>Read PV
>They dont translate the french

>> No.11379672

>>11377198
Dont choose PV if you cant read french

>> No.11379710

>>11378604
>>11378781
It's a good rule imo. Translation is an art/science that has advanced over the years quite a bit.

>>11377115
Miriam Schwartz has the best translation of this book bar none. I've read the book twice (P&V and Miriam Schwartz) and have sampled other translations. Schwartz is by far the best. By FAR

>> No.11379714

Oxford Classics has best version

>> No.11379718

>>11379710
>Miriam Schwartz
Post examples?

>> No.11379774

>>11379718
Read the fist page. Amazion has samples for most books. Read it and compare.

One of the most important Russian Lit scholars who wrote this article about "The Peavearsion of Russian Literature" endorsed Schwartz' translation of Anna Karenina.

>> No.11379777

>>11379718
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>> No.11379805

>>11379774
sounds like boomers who are mad their translation aint makin dough

>> No.11379830

>>11379774

Schwartz

>All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. The Oblonsky home was all confusion.

P&V

>All happy familieis are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. ALl was confusion in the Oblonskys' house.


how is schwartz "best translation bar none" when these fucking sentences are barely any different

>> No.11379853

>>11379830

Bartelt:

>All happy families are alike, each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Everything was confusion in the Oblonskys' house.

Maude:

>All happy families resemble one another, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Eeverything was upset in the Oblonskys' house.

>> No.11379856

this hot opinion is based only on war and peace but anyway;

if you want the nearest thing to actually reading it in russian pick p&v
if you want it to go down smoothly and read like any other novel go the others
just have fun with it, he wrote terrific books. both options are valid. besides, over the course of one's life surely a giant such as tolstoy deserves revisits by the dedicated reader

t. slavshitter

>> No.11379858

>>11379830
>>11379853
why the fuck are people recommending maude so hard?

>everything was upset in the oblonskys' house
who the fuck uses upset that way?

>> No.11379864

>was all confusion
>all was confusion
>Everything was confusion
Are anglos retarded? "Cмeшaлocь" is a verb. All was confused, for fuck's sake

>> No.11379868

idk fellas i think "all was confusion" is a very nice way of phrasing it

>> No.11379870

>>11379868
this

>> No.11379884

>>11379868
>idk fellas let's butcher the book because I think it sounds nicer that way

>> No.11379932

>>11379884
>let’s stick to stringent translations even if it sounds clunky and akward
Everything was upset in anon’s house.

>> No.11379971

>>11379932
>Everything was upset in anon’s house
That's better than using the wrong word class

>> No.11380034

>>11379102
> Nabokov would fucking despise P&V for the matter

God, why haven't I imagined it earlier? The bloodbath would make Schwarzenegger and Stallone look like innocent ballerinas.

>> No.11380059

>>11379830
>>11379853
It literally sounds bad in every translation

>> No.11380075

>P&V
Firing squad reporting in.
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>> No.11380113

>>11379830
>>11379853
I like P&V the most

>> No.11380510

I like how you all go by that first sentence. Go with the first page and youll see how tone deaf and unreadable p&v are

>> No.11381629

>>11380510
P&V haters are the same idiots that will tell you j cole is better than 6ix9ine