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/lit/ - Literature

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11360040 No.11360040 [Reply] [Original]

Apart from Joyce, does any writer from XX and XXI centuries can rivalize with Shakespeare, Proust, Cervantes or Tolstoi?

>> No.11360076

proust rivals proust, sure thing

also, he is the odd man out here, even quality wise

>> No.11360081

>XX and XXI centuries
>rivalize

what's your mother tongue? your English isn't too bad - you mean to say:

Apart from Joyce, does any other writer from the 20th and 21st centuries rival Shakespeare, Proust, Cervantes[,] or Tolsoy?

>> No.11360091

>>11360081
lol this isn’t reddit

>> No.11360098

>>11360040
Matt Groening

>> No.11360106

>>11360081
>Tolsoy
Shots fired.

>>11360040
Faulkner

>> No.11360123

>>11360106
lol massive pseud

>> No.11360126

I would say Wallace Stevens is up there. He has such an overwhelming and exquisite command of the rhythm and words of the English language. He has so much charm and irony, such a natural philosophical breadth of sympathy, such dignity, magnanimity that I would compare him with Shakespeare and Joyce (compare skill wise not style wise obviously). Can't speak for the others because I don't know French, Spanish or Russian

>> No.11360132

In terms of influence, probably Marquez

>> No.11360346

>Cervantes in the same tier with any of those
>Joyce rivals Shakespeare

>> No.11360475

>>11360091
stay mad monoling

>> No.11360971

>>11360081
>what's your mother tongue?

Italian

>> No.11360989

>>11360123
kys

>> No.11361087

>>11360040
Maybe not yet, those are rare 1-or-2-or-maybe-3-every-century-or-two geniuses.

>> No.11361100

>>11360971
I'd like to italian-tongue your mother

>> No.11361106

>>11361087
>1-or-2-or-maybe-3-every-century-or-two
wew lad

>> No.11361116

>>11360346

b-but Borges said that certain paragraphs of Joyce rival Shakespeare.

How can you think otherwise when you read the sentence "the rivering waters of, hither and thithering waters of, night."

?

>> No.11361121

>>11360971
no wonder you speak like a retard.

>> No.11362386

>>11361116
And Rowling uses the same words as Shakespeare sometimes. If Borges is correct in that certain paragraphs rival Shakespeare than most don't which makes him the inferior writer.

>> No.11362408

>>11360040

Cormac McCarthy

>> No.11362444

DFW

>> No.11362453

>>11360040
me

>> No.11362458

>>11360040
Dickens or Twain.

>> No.11362593

>>11362458
twain is white trash in west virginia's perception of good literature
dickens is white trash in wales' perception of good literature

>> No.11362605

Can anybody actually explain why is Tolstoy considered an out-of-the-box writter?

I've read his books in the original, since English isn't my native language (you could probably notice this by now by the way my post is written) and found nothing of interest, nothing at all. Russian literature has excellent writters, whose texts are funny and ironical and tasteful and deep in a good fashion — so I always wonder why foreign people are worshiping Tolstoy or Chekhov, since both of them just write stories. It may be good stories indeed, but there are people who did more — Marienhof, Leonid Andreev, Vasil Bykov, Pelevin. Their operas are not translated maybe?

>> No.11362621

>>11360040
Pynchon Gaddis and McElroy.

>> No.11362630

>>11362605

andreyev is a stutterer with down's syndrome and a sentimentality fixation compared to chekov and tolstoy, if the other three are approximate to him you're dumb and a retard

>> No.11362649

>>11362630
But he isn't at least just telling a story. He plays with words, weaves a new reality out of them. You could write «War and Peace» by yourself, it's not a big deal, the book has no unique fucked-up contents, which belong only to Leo's mind — it's scorched, dry and lifeless in this sense.

Everybody can write a book with fancy descriptions of the already existing things, make up a plot, but only few are capable of something more, something involving pure imagination and recreating a state of mind.

>> No.11362652

>>11362605
This may be why people say not to read translations. Subtleties and wordplay with language is lost in translation, what only remains in tact is the plotline of the work, so people lauding someone in translation for writing even as you said, "very good stories," is somewhat the only merit that can be evaluated, as an evaluation of the language and the prose is an evaluation of the translator rather than the author's pen and his command of his native language.

>> No.11362756

>>11362649
Tolstoy has an always will be a short story writer, he just so happened to also have written two of the worlds most famous novels. I was decidedly underwhelmed by War & Peace, but was however blown away by his shorter works.

>Everybody can write a book with fancy descriptions of the already existing things
>Tolstoy wrote stories with angels in them so they must be real!

>but only few are capable of something more, something involving pure imagination and recreating a state of mind
I fail to see how this does not apply to Chekhov or to the finer works of Tolstoy. I think you need to be far more specific. Both this point and the last one had to do with me not being able to understand your position. So far you position amounts to there is something "special" in good writers and neither Tolstoy or Chekhov have what I consider that "special" thing to be. It's hardly compelling.

>> No.11362763

>>11362621
Go to bed, Joe.

>> No.11362764

>>11361087
kys

>> No.11363641

>>11360346
>>Cervantes in the same tier with any of those
Yeah, he is way above

>> No.11363644

>>11360040
me

>> No.11363693

>>11360475
go back desu

>> No.11363812

>>11360040
Beckett is the only one

>> No.11364035
File: 91 KB, 720x748, JoycePepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11364035

>>11360040
>Apart from Joyce
No, He's probably the only one. I would say Whitman if he had just been born a little later.
This is way off topic, but this is closest thing I could find to a Joyce thread right now. Does anybody have the James Joyce Wojak with the eyepatch? I'm writing an essay about the Jocoserious in Ulysses and how it's relevant today through memes (specifically Wojak) and I think it would be a fun image to put in the paper. The problem is that I can't find it anywhere online, so it'd help me out a lot if somebody posted it.
(like picrelated but it's wojak)

>> No.11364045

>>11360040
Hemingway clearly but I see that you mentioned Joyce... meme thread

>> No.11364060

>>11360126

Wallace Stevens or Thomas Mann.

>> No.11364077

Updike
Sebald
>Vladimir Bartol
Gravely robbin
Robbin muslim
Tålkeen

>> No.11365615
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11365615

>>11364077
>Updike
>Sebald
>>Vladimir Bartol
>Gravely robbin
>Robbin muslim
>Tålkeen

>> No.11365634

>>11364035
I've been looking for that Wojak myself for a few days now.

>> No.11365642

>>11362763
Buy my book, pleb.

>> No.11365886

>>11360098
Yes.

>> No.11366151

>>11360040
>Joyce
>can rivalize with Shakespeare, Proust, Cervantes or Tolstoi

This is an absolute fucking joke. Take you postmodern wankery and shove it up your literal faggot white ponytailed neckbearded faggot ass.

>> No.11366286

>>11362593
>twain
>white trash
please shooshoo

>> No.11366297

Kind of unrelated to the thread but what's so good about Proust?

>> No.11366376

Melville

>> No.11366418

>>11362605
Andreyev is literally Chekhov writing genre fiction

>> No.11366421

>>11360040
>>11360081
>>11360106
What's with the differing spellings? Sorry for being illiterate but I have never understood why there are two ways to spell it and it seems to vary among people.

>> No.11366429
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11366429

>>11364035
All I have is this alternative Joyce Pepe. Hope that helps a little.

>> No.11367600

>>11363812
Always forget about this lad, best contender for originality of prose and aesthetics

My vote also goes to McCarthy

>> No.11367860

>>11366429
It doesn't help much, but it's a superior Joyce Pepe in my opinion, so it's a net positive for me. Thanks for the reply, anon.

>> No.11368382

>>11367600
I like u

>> No.11368834

>>11363641
this

>> No.11368854

>>11366286
i didnt say he was the ppl who think he's special are

>> No.11368874

>>11360040
Saul Bellow

>>11360126
Wallace Stevens is a different type of writer than those that OP mentioned. He isn't interested in painting human nature.

>> No.11368875

>>11360040
Chuck Palahniuk

>> No.11368890

>>11360040
Herman Melville

>> No.11368897

>>11366297
I'm no expert, but in my opinion the beauty of Proust lies in his mastery of descriptions, and how he wonderfully articulates his characters' thoughts on a wide range of topics; I also think his prose is beautiful

>> No.11369024

>>11368874
baste bellow

>> No.11369030
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11369030

>>11362621
>Gaddis and McElroy

>> No.11369039

>>11368382
>>11367600
reddit

>> No.11369043
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11369043

>>11364035
you're lucky i keep an extensive collection

>> No.11369046
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11369046

>>11368834
>>11366151
>>11363641
Friendly reminder that if a novel can be easily adapted into a children’s cartoon then it isn’t literature.

>> No.11369076
File: 16 KB, 625x626, 1523981758283.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11369076

>>11369046
Ok

>> No.11369089
File: 119 KB, 680x1000, AA80DC24-C8C4-4A92-9149-4627C82D4A38.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11369089

>>11369076
The Adventures of Don Quixote!

>> No.11369104

>>11362593
le ebic opinion!!!! xD my dude!!!

>> No.11369133
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11369133

>>11369089
>anthropomorphic windmill
You'll have to try harder than that, sir

>> No.11369206

Virginia Wolf, Tennessee Williams, and Mark Twain really mastered their forms of storytelling. Mark Twain in particular had a huge impact on the way we tell stories, by adding the colloquial element to dialog, not to mention his social status.

>> No.11369543

>>11369046
>not interpreting this as a byproduct of the state trying to make its population proud of one of his few internationale acknowledge cultural product, as well as being disguised as "educational" (but eh, maybe it is, I don't know).

Pleb

>> No.11369574

>>11369043
Thanks a million, anon.