/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11359325]

So, what exactly is the message of this book? (if there's any) I've read it and i'm not really sure what Hesse is trying to say with this work.. Explain.

[Anonymous No.11359334]

>>11359325
errr err uh erm err eastern .. peopple.. wi sdom

[Anonymous No.11359335]

> So, what exactly is the message of this book?
Be yourself, unironically.

[Anonymous No.11359346]

i really think you have to walk the Path before truly appreciating what this book has to say

[Anonymous No.11359352]

>>11359335
Nah,i don't think it's this. I think it was something like ''love the nature and apperciate everything related to it like birds,trees,plants etc.It kinda reminded me of ''Philosophy in the Boudoir'' because there's similar message.
>>11359346
what path? Be more specific.

[Anonymous No.11359502]

>>11359325
I read it and loved it but I was researching eastern philosophy/buddhism/zen a lot at the time. I admit that during reading it I consciously thought "Wow, if I didn't have any knowledge of eastern philosophy this would not be nearly as good". I can see someone being confused and uninterested if they had no prior knowledge or interest in eastern philosophy.

[Anonymous No.11359616]

>>11359325
>>11359346
>>11359502
It's actually a great book if you've read the Bhagavad Gita/Upanishads/Dhammapada. The question is, why was every other work by Hesse such trash?

[Anonymous No.11359619]

You can’t teach wisdom

[Anonymous No.11359623]

i was so underwhelmed by this that i stopped reading with like 15 pages left

[Anonymous No.11359635]

>he hasn't read it in german

[Anonymous No.11359681]

>>11359616
I believe Siddhartha was one of his first novels. In the rest of his novels he was overbearingly pseudo-intellectual (due, I guess, to his success and continue studies) and it gave me vicarious embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.11359685]

>>11359616
>he didn't like the painfully cathartic experience of the Glass Bead Game

[Anonymous No.11359710]

>>11359325
You can't find happiness, or contentment, or whatever you will, by simply doing what other people are doing. You have to follow your heart and find your own path in life.

[Anonymous No.11359715]

>>11359710
What else should I do? Please tell me.

[Anonymous No.11359721]

>>11359619
The most wise thing ever said.

[Anonymous No.11360170]

hesse is my favorite writer and i've read most of his novels. narcissus and goldmund is another work by hesse and i think it is work most similar to siddhartha. that is the story of two contrasting temperaments and their experiences with life and the divine. it is my belief that hesse tries to depict the sublime prose. he is trying to make pretty pictures with descriptions, more often than not. hesse was searching for aesthetics in words, his method was describing noble or wise or mysterious deeds.

[Anonymous No.11360202]

do you know who Siddhartha is? Siddhartha Gautama (based on a real person)

[Anonymous No.11360222]

life is like a river maaan

[Anonymous No.11360225]

The book is a really great representation of Eastern religions and it demonstrates just how empty these philosophies are. The message of Siddartha is that we're all one and recognition of this is how you reach an enlightened state. What "one" is or what it means to be enlightened is unexplainable because the universe is chaotic so facts are illusions and seeking explanations for things will hamper your enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.11360233]

> Drop all your anchors.
However, most people will use this statement in a trite manner to mean that you gotta do some other act. But dropping all anchors include dropping the felt need to act. It is to just be. Yes, just be. That's existence. True and untainted.

[Anonymous No.11360234]

>>11359721
Didn't he just teach us all that piece of wisdom?

[Anonymous No.11360237]

>>11360225
>how empty these philosophies are
don't mistake it for nihilism

[Anonymous No.11360240]

>>11360225
>Dude, like, Siddhartha is totally enlightened and shit. But then he just wanders off and bangs whores and gambles it all away. wtf??

[Anonymous No.11360316]

>>11359325
I think the main message is about finding your own way of living. It isn't just "fuck everyone else. I'll make my own path" but about experiencing how other people live their lives and learning from them so you know what is the best for you.

I've read almost every book written by Hermann Hesse. He often talks about the duality of men and how to find the perfect balance between each opposite force.

[Anonymous No.11360359]

>>11359715
You can't follow whatever someone tells you to do.

[Anonymous No.11360377]

>>11360359
so how can he follow your statement

[Anonymous No.11360392]

>>11360202
His name is Siddhartha so that there is comparison between him and the Buddha.

[Anonymous No.11360401]

>>11360377
You got me.

[Anonymous No.11360404]

>>11360392
it isn't obvious to everyone what the buddha's name is

[Anonymous No.11360412]

Finding yourself involves becoming the antithesis of yourself

[Anonymous No.11360455]

>>11359325
Give up a life of riches and banging the hot queen chick of the town so you can row nobodies across a lake.

[Anonymous No.11361431]

>>11360225
Your mistake is assuming intellect = mind, my friend.

[Anonymous No.11361445]

>>11359325
it's disappointing, no gay shotacon like most Hesse novels

[Anonymous No.11361448]

>>11361431
What's the difference?

[Anonymous No.11361452]

Read Colin Wilson's analysis of Hesse in the first or second chapter of The Outsider

Hesse always disappointingly collapses into world-weariness because he thinks that the only mature pose one can have toward the lack of golden ethereal meaning is to accept its absence from discursive thought and day-to-day consciousness "soberly" and with melancholy

Siddhartha seeks enlightenment and winds up where he started, no better off, except for the "maturity" of an ambivalent and ambiguous reflection on the purpose of seeking enlightenment. Lesser minds are contented by fool's gold, and find happiness in some low-grade pseudo-enlightenment that maybe at least allows them to be happy and do good works in this world. But for greater minds, there is only great sadness in store, because bypassing the fool's gold doesn't reveal the real thing. There is no gold and there is no hero's reward for overcoming the trials.

If you read Siddhartha, and most of Hesse's books, as echoes of the ending-less spiritual wandering of his own life, you realise why they had no ending. He would ask as much as you are asking, what was the message? Is there some greater contentment in this melancholy that I'm not realising or not mature enough to realise? Because not even that satisfies. Hesse died without finding his answer.

[Anonymous No.11361476]

>>11359352
>what path?
the path of truth

[Anonymous No.11361479]

>>11360222
where can i stream it?

[Anonymous No.11361556]

>>11361445
What about when Siddhartha was kissing the nipples of a woman and thought that woman's face was Govinda's face.

[Anonymous No.11361770]

>>11361448
Intellect is simply the tool used by the conscious mind to make survival-based decisions based on information presented to the senses. While that is useful (you can use it to build steel bridges or increase production line efficiency), it does not account for things in the mind like:

>unconscious conditioning
>non-sensory information (intuition, subconscious language, etc.)
>information that has not yet been presented to the senses yet is still extant
>ability to form memories
>ability to form phantom images
>ability to form dreams
>the relationship between the body and the mind in being able to process / be receptive to information

And so on.
The mind is simply far too grand and powerful to be reduced to mere intellect alone.

[Anonymous No.11361771]

>>11359352
the path of no-path

[Anonymous No.11361780]

>>11359681
>I believe Siddhartha was one of his first novels. In the rest
You do know it was his seventh novel right?

[Anonymous No.11361794]

>>11359325
I haven’t bothered to read that book and to be honest i havent read a book in 30 years. What i know comes from experience, from 50 years working around fellow mammals. I’ll say this: everyone’s retarded and nothing matters. Men will pinch your ass and you’ll get on your knees, even though you’re a famous married actress, and suck your pool boy’s dick without knowing why. That’s humanity in a nutshell, as Roseanne would say. There, no need to read books.

[Anonymous No.11361807]

>>11361794

[Anonymous No.11362755]

>>11361794

[Anonymous No.11362762]

How do I into Buddhism? Do they have a common, collected text like a Bible?

Can I still eat meat?

[Anonymous No.11362794]

>>11362762
There's no one single text, but there are a few highly popular texts that can act as good sources of wisdom/guidance. For someone starting out like you I'd recommend the Dhammapada.

Different traditions say different things about eating meat, but usually the response you'll get is that its okay to eat meat (especially as a westerner), but you may end up wanting to abstain from meat later on anyway.

Also keep in mind Buddhism is unlike Western religions, in the sense you're not "believing" in a set of ideas. Rather, it's simply the path to take you towards enlightenment, although religious elements like chanting, rituals and community service can all be a part of that (depending on the sect.)

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous No.11362799]

>>11362794
>in the sense you're not "believing" in a set of ideas. Rather, it's simply the path to take you towards enlightenment

Yup, that's why I'm looking into it. Thanks by the way.

[Anonymous No.11362814]

>>11360234

[Anonymous No.11362821]

>>11362794
>but you may end up wanting to abstain from meat later on anyway

Why would you say that?

[Anonymous No.11362824]

>grab your ankles because birthright monarchs are allowed to fuck you at will

[Anonymous No.11362840]

>>11362821
I'm not saying you will, in fact depending on where you live even Buddhist masters still eat meat (including the Dalai Lama), but I will say that if you take Buddhist practice seriously enough and you don't have any compelling reason to keep eating it, then you start to question whether it's something you want to keep doing or not. It can be seen as part of the spiritual change that Buddhism helps you go through.

[Anonymous No.11362842]

>>11362840
Ah, I see.

[Anonymous No.11362884]

>>11362762
"Yes, Ananda, there is one quality that, when developed & pursued, brings four qualities to completion; and four qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring seven qualities to completion; and seven qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring two qualities to completion. And what is the one quality that, when developed & pursued, brings four qualities to completion? What are the four qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring seven qualities to completion? What are the seven qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring two qualities to completion?

"Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, brings the four frames of reference[1] to completion. The four frames of reference, when developed & pursued, bring the seven factors for Awakening to completion. The seven factors for Awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to completion.
Mindfulness of In-&-Out Breathing

"Now how is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing developed & pursued so as to bring the four frames of reference to their culmination?

"There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'

[Anonymous No.11362888]

>>11362884
"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' [14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion.'[2] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' [15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' [16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'
The Four Frames of Reference

"[1] Now, on whatever occasion a monk breathing in long discerns that he is breathing in long; or breathing out long, discerns that he is breathing out long; or breathing in short, discerns that he is breathing in short; or breathing out short, discerns that he is breathing out short; trains himself to breathe in... &... out sensitive to the entire body; trains himself to breathe in... &... out calming the bodily processes: On that occasion the monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. I tell you that this — the in-&-out breath — is classed as a body among bodies, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

"[2] On whatever occasion a monk trains himself to breathe in... &... out sensitive to rapture; trains himself to breathe in... &... out sensitive to pleasure; trains himself to breathe in... &... out sensitive to mental processes; trains himself to breathe in... &... out calming mental processes: On that occasion the monk remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. I tell you that this — close attention to in-&-out breaths — is classed as a feeling among feelings, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

"[3] On whatever occasion a monk trains himself to breathe in... &... out sensitive to the mind; trains himself to breathe in... &... out satisfying the mind; trains himself to breathe in... &... out steadying the mind; trains himself to breathe in... &... out releasing the mind: On that occasion the monk remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. I don't say that there is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing in one of confused mindfulness and no alertness, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

[Anonymous No.11362891]

>>11362888
"[4] On whatever occasion a monk trains himself to breathe in... &... out focusing on inconstancy; trains himself to breathe in... &... out focusing on dispassion; trains himself to breathe in... &... out focusing on cessation; trains himself to breathe in... &... out focusing on relinquishment: On that occasion the monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He who sees clearly with discernment the abandoning of greed & distress is one who oversees with equanimity, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

"This is how mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is developed & pursued so as to bring the four frames of reference to their culmination.
The Seven Factors for Awakening

"And how are the four frames of reference developed & pursued so as to bring the seven factors for Awakening to their culmination?

"[1] On whatever occasion the monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world, on that occasion his mindfulness is steady & without lapse. When his mindfulness is steady & without lapse, then mindfulness as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[2] Remaining mindful in this way, he examines, analyzes, & comes to a comprehension of that quality with discernment. When he remains mindful in this way, examining, analyzing, & coming to a comprehension of that quality with discernment, then analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[3] In one who examines, analyzes, & comes to a comprehension of that quality with discernment, unflagging persistence is aroused. When unflagging persistence is aroused in one who examines, analyzes, & comes to a comprehension of that quality with discernment, then persistence as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[4] In one whose persistence is aroused, a rapture not-of-the-flesh arises. When a rapture not-of-the-flesh arises in one whose persistence is aroused, then rapture as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[5] For one who is enraptured, the body grows calm and the mind grows calm. When the body & mind of an enraptured monk grow calm, then serenity as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

[Anonymous No.11362893]

>>11362891
"[6] For one who is at ease — his body calmed — the mind becomes concentrated. When the mind of one who is at ease — his body calmed — becomes concentrated, then concentration as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[7] He oversees the mind thus concentrated with equanimity. When he oversees the mind thus concentrated with equanimity, equanimity as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

(Similarly with the other three frames of reference: feelings, mind, & mental qualities.)

"This is how the four frames of reference are developed & pursued so as to bring the seven factors for Awakening to their culmination.
Clear Knowing & Release

"And how are the seven factors for Awakening developed & pursued so as to bring clear knowing & release to their culmination? There is the case where a monk develops mindfulness as a factor for Awakening dependent on seclusion... dispassion... cessation, resulting in relinquishment. He develops analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening... persistence as a factor for Awakening... rapture as a factor for Awakening... serenity as a factor for Awakening... concentration as a factor for Awakening... equanimity as a factor for Awakening dependent on seclusion... dispassion... cessation, resulting in relinquishment.

"This is how the seven factors for Awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to their culmination."

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Ananda delighted in the Blessed One's words.

[Anonymous No.11363053]

Get good at gambling. You'll win so much, gambling will be boring.

[Anonymous No.11363458]

I read it and the idea I got was that in the same way that a tree eventually dies and becomes something new, which again will change and become something new, such is everything, even people. BUT, I think another message of the book is that even though everything changes, it is also still exactly what it is when it is what it is.

[Anonymous No.11363642]

>>11361452
it's this. Wisdom is not communicable and Siddhartha comes to this realization only after recognizing that there is no greater understanding floating around waiting for him to latch on to. It's a very worldly book

[Anonymous No.11363691]

Apart from that is been already said, that society corrupts even the wisest of man. In order to live a happy life, you don't need tons of money, which often they make you unsatisfied because you always want more. You can be satisfied and fulfilled only if you appreciate what you have, even though isn't a lot. Also friendship and not thots is greatest treasure

[Anonymous No.11363695]

>>11363691
>Also friendship and not thots is greatest treasure
This, reminder that Siddhartha gets the girl of his dreams in the end.

[Anonymous No.11363873]

>>11359352
the P A T H