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/lit/ - Literature

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11354675 No.11354675 [Reply] [Original]

This would be as popular as LOTR if the protagonist was white.
Discuss.

>> No.11354695

>>11354675
who?

>> No.11354703

>>11354695
Earthsea.
Good series but the protagonist is some racially undefined dark-skinned man because politics and I think that weirds people out.

>> No.11354743

>>11354675
It's a weird situation because fantasy is largely a white person thing, and people, especially kids, really just want to see themselves reflected in stories.

Ursula was a really smart person and I'm sure she knew that her series would be a flop, but just wanted to create something with representation anyways. She was a big softie like that

>> No.11354925

>>11354743
This is from the 1960, way before the representation thing. And it makes sense since the islands are based on Polynesia.

>> No.11354938

>>11354675
le guin would be considered one of the 'big three'
of sci fi if she was a man tbqh

>> No.11354967

>>11354675
I like her stories a lot should I check out this series?

>> No.11355001

No I don't think so, although it is a factor, you still have to contend with the fact that LOTR distills millennia of European mythology into a laser focused delivery. It is not just a case of White people but White people archetypes and folk-stories of the kind that resonate implicitly with the people of Europe.

Earthsea is good, and a white protag would maybe have made it more relatable for some, but it's greatest difference from LOTR is lacks the mythic, dreamlike quality of Tolkien's works. You read Earthsea and it is a good book that displays the imagination of one talented woman, where as for Europeans reading LOTR for the first time the experience is new but also immediately and viscerally COMFY and familiar, like when you have a dream you are sure you had before.

>> No.11355009

>>11354925
If you think the concept of representation in art/media predates the 1960s then you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about

>> No.11355138

>>11354675
My book only failed cause white peoples raycis

>> No.11355301

>>11354675
Perhaps, Imagined him as native american type looking man. I think the mythological and more theatrical staging of Lord of the Rings is a lot more appealing and accessible to people in general compared to Earthsea. Also Lotr had a good decade head start at least to get popular on Earthsea and The Hobbit was very popular before Lotr was published. I think these are fairly clear as to explain why Earthsea wasn't as popular.

>> No.11355365

>>11354675
>Holier-Than-Thou drivel by a raving leftist
>better than the glory of our Lord shining through the pages of LotR

L to the MAO.

>> No.11355376

>>11354703
>It's current year
Yeah you're right, it isn't 2018 where the white man is the devil. You have some weird insecurities about yourself and I suggest you sort it out
t. black guy

>> No.11355522

>hobbits
>white

>> No.11355845

>>11354675
Doubtful. They're not particularly compelling books. There's no overarching story like LOTR and there's not a hell of a lot going on in them individually.
I don't even remember him being dark-skinned. If I registered it at the time I probably wrote it off as him just being swarthy, like an Italian or something.

>> No.11355858

>>11355845
Ged and most of the inhabitants of the archipelago are red-skinned. The Kargish are white. The East Reachers are black.

>> No.11355870

It might be considered as good as lotr if it was as good as lotr.
There's plenty of good stuff in earthsea, but as an overall narrative and in terms of prose lotr is better.

>> No.11356058

I watched the Studio Ghibli adaptation and it was completely forgettable.

>> No.11356077

>>11355858
Ah. In fantasy settings I barely even notice things like that unless the author goes out of their way to make their ethnicities obviously analogous to ours. Otherwise they tend to blend in as just another random group of people.

>> No.11356082

>>11356058
This is a board about books, sir

>> No.11356647

>>11356077
>I think it is possible that some readers never even notice what color the people in the story are. Don't notice, don't care. Whites of course have the privilege of not caring, of being "colorblind." Nobody else does.

>I have heard, not often, but very memorably, from readers of color who told me that the Earthsea books were the only books in the genre that they felt included in—and how much this meant to them, particularly as adolescents, when they'd found nothing to read in fantasy and science fiction except the adventures of white people in white worlds. Those letters have been a tremendous reward and true joy to me.

>> No.11356676

>LOTR has overarching themes and dramatic story telling
>Earthsea has contained episodes with character studies

gee, it must be because the main character isnt white

>> No.11356708

>>11354675
When I was a kid I only registered halfway through that the dude had dark skin and figured he was Spanish or something. Didn't like them half as much as LoTR. First one was exciting enough, second a bit dull. Reread them as an adult and had forgotten 80% of the plot.

Overtly political sci-fi Le Guin is better

>> No.11356758
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11356758

>>11354938
The representation of importance in sci fi is only ever truly of importance chronologically. Because of its parallel historical relationship with scientific knowledge, sci fi cannot be thought of in term of originality, and "deeply iden truths!" that you would find in BACK TO THE GREEKS. Faustian-thisorthat. Ect.
---
Le Guin has gotten a lot of recognition and doesn't need defending against her precursors or those that came after her. These kind of viral fervours reduce writers to blips of cold intelligence and nothing more. Readers are left searching out Messages and miss the majestic messiness of her real worlds muddled with her unreal, or unthought, or remade, rekiddled, rewrought, all her redone, redoubted stuff is no doubt much more interesting than her importance.
---
>>11354675
What is Harry Potter?

>> No.11356778
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11356778

>>11356758
Harry Potter is a kids book. If you have pubes, dont worry about it

>> No.11356834

>>11354743
There isn't "representation" - it's a fantasy race.

>> No.11356845

>>11354703
This is completely mistaken. I looked into Earthsea a while ago and decided not to read it because it was written by a woman. Not because the protagonist was black.

>> No.11356870

ursula is epitome of didactic.

>> No.11356885

I never paid attention or cared about the race any given character was until the left made it paramount. Now I avoid stories with prominent minority characters and I don't read anything written by women because I despise social engineering. They assume the only reason people are racist is because they haven't had enough exposure to those races so they're literally trying to brainwash people into being nonracist by inserting these characters into various forms of media. The unjustified assumption on how racism works is reason alone to object but the surreptitious way they go about imposing their "solutions" onto people is extremely offensive and I'll rebel against it in any way possible.

>> No.11356951

>>11356647
>I think it is possible that some readers never even notice what material forms the socks on Rachel Weisz's sweaty feet. Don't notice, don't care. Sephardic Jews with houses in Golders Green of course have the privilege of not caring, of being "sockblind."
>Nobody else does.
"I"m not insane, I'm an activist."

>> No.11357205

>>11354703
>and I think that weirds people out.

Rightly so because it is weird. There isn't a single instance of it happening that doesn't feel forced.

>> No.11357311

>>11356951
This wasn't funny but I laughed

>> No.11357342

>>11356834
Ugggggghhh eat my entire ass. Either you're fucking retarded or you're being obtuse either way seriously unironically drink bleach you fucking shitbag

>> No.11357357

>>11354675

Geb was black?

>> No.11357950

>>11356647
>I think it is possible that some readers never even notice what color the people in the story are. Don't notice, don't care. Whites of course have the privilege of not caring, of being "colorblind." Nobody else does.

Why in the hell should we care about blacks or other minorities?

>> No.11358939

>>11356708
>>11355301
I love the second one, The Tombs of Atuan, the most.
I agree if Le Guin had had created a whole continuous world with a detailed history rather than a series of character studies it would have been more popular, but she just wasn't interested in that.

>>11355001
Dunno about that. It doesn't produce any such effect on southern europeans.

>>11356676
There's overarching themes and dramatic storytelling in Earthsea too. They're the hero's journey to overcome his/her internal flaws which frankly resonate and inspire me far more than anything lotr ever did. Lotr is good at finding inspiration for facing an external threat, but Earthsea is much better for finding inspiration at facing an internal challenge.

>>11356058
At least it's not that horrid tv movie.

>> No.11359466
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11359466

>>11356885
>It's your guy's fault that resentment dictates my entire outlook now
K
>>11357342
>Triggered
Sorry that the free market of ideas didn't decide to make all media your safe space. Life must be really hard

>> No.11359475

>>11358939
>southern europeans.
You mean 'northern arabs'

>> No.11359515

>>11354675
>This would be as popular as LOTR if the protagonist was white.
>Discuss.
This is nonsense. Most kids who read this series don't even notice or care what colour skin the protagonist is.

As others have pointed out, Earthsea isn't popular because its story is mostly about internal conflicts rather than an epic good vs. evil narrative.

The movie rights are in play now though, so expect them to make a trilogy at least. In fact, it's already happening.

And because of our ridiculous, hysterical social climate, it is going to be the most in-your-face, "historic", "representative" thing ever.

I just hope they don't completely fuck it up again.

>> No.11359518

>>11354925
>based on Polynesia
Never read the books, this guy

>> No.11359528

>>11356058
>that time le guin ripped apart the movie and miyazaki's son
http://www.ursulakleguin.com/GedoSenkiResponse.html

>> No.11359532
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11359532

>>11359466
Oh shit, its the guy that posts vegan propaganda on /ck/ and then spams that picture at anyone who disagrees with him. You really get around.

>> No.11359538

>>11359475
North Africans aren't even real arabs to begin with.