/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11319064]

"How can I be as edgy as humanly possible?"
"Ayo homie hold my beer"

[Anonymous No.11319068]

No.

[Anonymous No.11319072]

>>11319064
what? He's just saying to speak softy and carry a big sword

[Anonymous No.11319074]

>>11319064
>t. hasnt read it
t. neither have I, but I at least perused le wikipedia

[Anonymous No.11319079]

>>11319072
isnt the prince more like speak bigly and carry a little sword?

[Anonymous No.11319122]

This book is meant to be satire. Has to do with him being mistreated or something by the Medici

[Anonymous No.11319145]

>>11319122
>This book is meant to be satire
No. It wasnt published till 5 years after his death, and existed for like 20 years before that, he wrote it for rulers, and it got passed around to them, and then for some reason was published after he died (how many copies, idk), by those powerful people who had access to the text.

[Anonymous No.11319164]

>>11319145
Are his Rules of Warfare in there? (I am oldfag and read his work 30 years ago.) The one thing I always remember most is: Do not engage in warfare unless you profit from it. This runs so against the common misconceptions that are held of him.

[Anonymous No.11319170]

>>11319145
Yes it's satire stop being dumb

[Anonymous No.11319183]

>>11319170
in what sense is it satire? How much of it have you read? Are you part of a royal family 600 years ago?

[Anonymous No.11319187]

>>11319074
The infamous wiki warrior strikes again

[Anonymous No.11319193]

>>11319183
Everyone calls it satire because it's satire.

I've already explained my argument in 1000s of other threads. Enough is enough.

[Anonymous No.11319194]

>people in 2018 still can't understand The Prince

[Anonymous No.11319221]

>>11319193
>http://www2.idehist.uu.se/distans/ilmh/Ren/flor-mach-lett-vettori.htm
The next to the last paragraph makes a compelling argument against it being satire.

[Anonymous No.11319236]

>>11319193
>Everyone calls it satire because it's satire.
thats gotta be some falacy,

>I've already explained my argument in 1000s of other thread
you havent, there is no argument.

The text is choke full of sincere truth, maybe <1% of it can be said to be outlandish in any sense

There is nothing absurd about 99% of the text, it is straightforward good advice on how principalities maintain themselves and interact with others.

the "its satire guise!" is the attempt of the powerful to convince the masses that their superiors never considered the maybe 1% contexts in the book to have any practical validity in that time or theirs.

[Anonymous No.11319281]

>>11319221
third to last paragraph too:

>When evening comes, I return home and enter my study; on the threshold I take off my workday clothes, covered with mud and dirt, and put on the garments of court and palace. Fitted out appropriately, I step inside the venerable courts of the ancients, where, solicitously received by them, I nourish myself on that food that alone is mine and for which I was born; where I am unashamed to converse with them and to question them about the motives for their actions, and they, out of their human kindness, answer me. And for four hours at a time I feel no boredom, I forget all my troubles, I do not dread poverty, and I am not terrified by death. I absorb myself into them completely. And because Dante says that no one understands anything unless he retains what he has understood, I have jotted down what I have profited from in their conversation and composed a short study, De principatibus, in which I delve as deeply as I can into the ideas concerning this topic, discussing the definition of a princedom, the categories of princedoms, how they are acquired, how they are retained, and why they are lost. And if ever any whimsy of mine has given you pleasure, this one should not displease you. It ought to be welcomed by a prince, and especially by a new prince; therefore I am dedicating it to His Magnificence Giuliano. Filippo da Casavecchia has seen it. He will be able to give you some account of both the work itself and the discussions I have had with him about it, although I am continually fattening and currying it.

[Anonymous No.11319294]

>>11319281
>I have discussed this little study of mine with Filippo and whether or not it would be a good idea to present it [to Giuliano], and if it were a good idea, whether I should take it myself or should send it to you. Against presenting it would be my suspicion that he might not even read it and that that person Ardinghelli might take the credit for this most recent of my endeavors. In favor of presenting it would be the necessity that hounds me, because I am wasting away and cannot continue on like this much longer without becoming contemptible because of my poverty. Besides, there is my desire that these Medici princes should begin to engage my services, even if they should start out by having me roll along a stone. For then, if I could not win them over, I should have only myself to blame. And through this study of mine, were it to be read, it would be evident that during the fifteen years I have been studying the art of the state I have neither slept nor fooled around, and anybody ought to be happy to utilize someone who has had so much experience at the expense of others. There should be no doubt about my word; for, since I have always kept it, I should not start learning how to break it now. Whoever has been honest and faithful for forty-three years, as I have, is unable to change his nature; my poverty is a witness to my loyalty and honesty.
10 December 1513.
Niccolò Machiavelli, in Florence.

the prince was published 1532

well I guess that puts the its satire to rest

[Anonymous No.11319307]

>>11319294
>well I guess that puts the its satire to rest
I have been sitting here on idle waiting for the magnum opus shitpost response. Alas, I fear it is not to be.

[Anonymous No.11319327]

>>11319307
but really, where do the 'its satire' posters come from? like a trained conditioned response, is it cognitive dissonance? wishful/hopeful thinking? the desire for all the little babies to think that the world is and has always been a cute little funhouse safespace disneyworld playground?

[Anonymous No.11319354]

>>11319327
>but really, where do the 'its satire' posters come from?
I believe it to be the result of the massive disinformation campaign that has surrounded the work of Machiavelli for decades.
>my God, Machiavelli is despicable
>Kek, it's only satire
Both aim for the same effect - disenfranchisement of the work from it's readership.

[Anonymous No.11319428]

>it's satire

Even a cursory glance at his Wikipedia shows him ushering in the *modern era* of thought. Does that sound like a fucking joke to you?

[Anonymous No.11319484]

>>11319428
>the *modern era* of thought
what does that mean and represent?

[Anonymous No.11319495]

>>11319484
Start with the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.11319913]

>>11319484
This meme >>11319495 isn't far off. It begins with materialism, an absolute revolution to these religious dark age idealists.

[Anonymous No.11319923]

>>11319170
>>11319193
Jesus Christ you are one dumb motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.11320206]

>>11319193
1) A tautology isnt an argument
2) There is no reasonably justifiable way to whitewash the literature in totality as satire
Youre retarded.

[Anonymous No.11320223]

There's embellishment, but zero irony.

[Anonymous No.11320291]

>uhh the prince is satire!

[Anonymous No.11320302]

I guess we're all living in satirical political systems right now then considering the basis of modern politics comes from Machiaveli.

[Anonymous No.11320746]

>>11319064
Satire posters are retarded. Also it'snot edgy if you think about what was pragmatic at the time it was written. Stop making modern moral judgements on historical works, it's a futile exercise.

[Anonymous No.11320824]

>>11319064
Terrible post.