Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.11303475]

>I and other Odyssey fans were excited by Wilson’s opening line: “Tell me about a complicated man.” In its matter-of-fact language, it’s worlds different from Fagles’s “Sing to me of the man, Muse,” or Robert Fitzgerald’s 1961 version, “Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story / of that man skilled in all ways of contending.” Wilson chose to use plain, relatively contemporary language in part to “invite readers to respond more actively with the text,” she writes in a translator’s note.

[Anonymous No.11303484]

>Start with the Greeks by reading this non-traditional translation which discards one of the most famous passages in all of literature
Who the fuck does she think she is to break down centuries of tradition in favour of innovation?

[Anonymous No.11303499]

>>11303484
>Who the fuck does she think she is to break down centuries of tradition in favour of innovation?
A woman. The only selling point of her translation is that she has a cunt. That is her sole merit.

[Anonymous No.11303512]

IMAGINE WRITING FOR VOX

IMAGINE ACTUALLY FUCKING WRITING FOR VOX!!! IMAGINE HAVING A FUCKING WORTHLESS BA, GLORIFIED HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA IN NEWSPEAK TRAINING TO BE PART OF SOME UPPER MIDDLE CLASS BOURGEOIS MIDDLEBROW HORSESHIT "PUBLIC SPHERE," AND ALL YOU GET FOR IT IS THAT YOU WRITE FOR FUCKING VOX! VOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU COULD LITERALLY FUCKING WRITE ANYTHING, YOU COULD WRITE SOME SPITBALL OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD SHIT LIKE "AHHH YES, INDEED, SHE WRITES IN PLAINSPOKEN LANGUAGE, UNLESS THESE OTHER ILIAD TRANSLATORS I GOOGLED..... THAT'S SOMETHING I COULD SAY IN MY VOX ARTICLE" AND YOUR FUCKING BOBBLEHEAD AUDIENCE OF 7 PEOPLE WOULDN'T EVEN NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE

JUST SUBMIT LOREM IPSUM NEXT TIME AND SEE IF ANYONE EVEN CALLS YOU ON IT, SUBMIT LITERAL FUCKING LOREM IPSUM TO YOUR """JOB"""" AT VOX AND SEE IF YOUR EDITORS OR YOUR 7 READERS NOTICE YOU FUCKING FAILURE, 30SOMETHING HIPSTER WHO WRITES FOR VOX, "SELLING HUMIDIFIER - ONLY 1 YEAR OLD, WORKS GREAT!" BLOCKBUSTER MOVIE SEEING, FROWNY-FACED TWITTER ART HO FOLLOWING PIECE OF HUMAN GARBAGE

[Anonymous No.11303585]

>>11303484
found the bigot

[Anonymous No.11303591]

>>11303475
vox is actually an alt right psy op designed to make people racist

[Anonymous No.11303599]

>>11303475
>I and other Odyssey fans were excited by Wilson's opening line: "Tell me about that guy."
Mmm.

[Anonymous No.11303620]

I remember reading about this when it happened. The London Review of Books had an interesting review and then that thing happened where Wilson responded to the review and the editor who wrote the review responded to her response. I'm sure her work is strong, though.

[Anonymous No.11303621]

>>11303475
I bet you Odyesseus gets cucked by an Ethiopian suitor in her translation.

[Anonymous No.11303625]

I don't get the problem? Im a total odyssey geek like you guys but isn't a fresh, female perspective a good thing?

[Anonymous No.11303626]

Her translation is still the best out there.

[Anonymous No.11303627]

>>11303512
Imagine being bitter enough to take the time to write out this shit post.

[Anonymous No.11303630]

>>11303627
imagine WRITING FOR VOX

[Anonymous No.11303634]

>>11303627
explain what's inherently wrong with bitterness

[Anonymous No.11303636]

>>11303620
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n08/colin-burrow/light-through-the-fog

Link.

[Anonymous No.11303641]

>>11303620
>I'm sure her work is strong, though.
It's probably accurate, which is fine, it's just not as notable as people think.

[Anonymous No.11303643]

>>11303512
Based

[Anonymous No.11303645]

Beatbox to me, Mothergaia, cos lady, you ain't no liar,
of a man of many wiles, and of as many trials,
Odysseus was his name, and from Ithaca he came,
Yeah, yeah, his crew died... boy, that was a shame!
Lied to them bustas at Troy... ahoy, what's this? A horse?
Mother! What you think? No, of course!
Sack that shitty city, then return home to beat the kitty!

[Anonymous No.11303648]

>>11303645
stop

[Anonymous No.11303653]

>>11303625
It is.

All new translations are welcome. If they are good or not, let time judge.

Anyway, I find it disappointing that most Anglophones today prefer reading modern versions instead of Chapman and Pope.

If you want accuracy, read a prose translation. If you want poetry, read Chapman and Pope.

[Anonymous No.11303660]

>>11303484
It's the post modern concept that we can all have ours, and you, and you, and you. It's the concept that there is no right answer and tradition is something for you and not for me. It's the cynical oddworld we live in where you can demolish tradition for your namesake and celeberity because who's to say they shouldn't. God? Who can hear him? Certainly not you, bigot.

[Anonymous No.11303661]

>>11303512
BASED

[Anonymous No.11303682]

>>11303645
You just gave me such an idea.

I am a Latino (actually white, mostly Italian, but let's pretend, right?), I am starting to learn some Greek, and I speak very good English, so...

What if I write the hip-hop Homer? I would instantly get 100 consecutive New Yorker covers. It would be absolutely sweet and would help boost my literary career like nothing else.

Of course I have never listened to hip-hop in my entire life, but whatever. I can do without it.

[Anonymous No.11303714]

>>11303682
publishing= paper by product branch of the managerial liberalism globohomo leviathan. it's all about promoting cultural marxism and the ZOG agenda, not about actual books

[Anonymous No.11303733]

>>11303714
I was a leftist until early 2016. that's when managerial liberalism really kicked into overdrive, and started demanding full psychopolitical 24/7 involvement. it's all about self righteous clickbait

[Anonymous No.11303738]

>>11303475
Is that translation of the opening line actually more accurate though? I saw footnotes about the Greek word and it’s meaning in some decades old intro to a platonic dialogue, and it seems like hers sort of err captures it better

Nietzsche was right about the British boarding school dullards, they taint their Greeks with their lifeless hogwash... perhaps we have been poisoned by them here too

[Anonymous No.11303748]

finally

[Anonymous No.11303756]

>>11303714
Exactly. I want money.

[Anonymous No.11303770]

So she just translated it inaccurately.

[Anonymous No.11303779]

LATTIMORE

Tell me, Muse, of the man of many ways, who was driven
far journeys, after he had sacked Troy’s sacred citadel.
Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
struggling for his own life and the homecoming of his companions.
Even so he could not save his companions, hard though
he strove to; they were destroyed by their own wild recklessness,
fools, who devoured the oxen of Helios, the Sun God,
and he took away the day of their homecoming. . . .


FITZGERALD

Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story
of that man skilled in all ways of contending,
the wanderer, harried for years on end,
after he plundered the stronghold
on the proud height of Troy.
He saw the townlands
and learned the minds of many distant men,
and weathered many bitter nights and days
in his deep heart at sea, while he fought only
to save his life, to bring his shipmates home.
But not by will nor valor could he save them,
for their own recklessness destroyed them all —
children and fools, they killed and feasted on
the cattle of Lord Hęlios, the Sun,
and he who moves all day through the heaven
took from their eyes the dawn of their return. . . .
WILSON

Tell me about a complicated man.
Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost
when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy,
and where he went, and who he met, the pain
he suffered in the storms at sea, and how
he worked to save his life and bring his men
back home. He failed to keep them safe; poor fools,
they ate the Sun God’s cattle, and the god
kept them from home. Now goddess, child of Zeus,
tell the old story for our modern times.

[Anonymous No.11303782]

>>11303779
>tell the old story for our modern times.
wew lad

[Anonymous No.11303785]

>>11303779
POPE

The man for wisdom's various arts renown'd,
Long exercised in woes, O Muse! resound;
Who, when his arms had wrought the destined fall
Of sacred Troy, and razed her heaven-built wall,
Wandering from clime to clime, observant stray'd,
Their manners noted, and their states survey'd,
On stormy seas unnumber'd toils he bore,
Safe with his friends to gain his natal shore:
Vain toils! their impious folly dared to prey
On herds devoted to the god of day;
The god vindictive doom'd them never more
(Ah, men unbless'd!) to touch that natal shore.
Oh, snatch some portion of these acts from fate,
Celestial Muse! and to our world relate.

CHAPMAN

HE man, O Muse, inform, that many a way
Wound with his wisdom to his wished stay;
That wandered wondrous far, when he the town
Of sacred Troy had sack'd and shivered down;
The cities of a world of nations,
With all their manners, minds, and fashions
He saw and knew; at sea felt many woes,
Much care sustained, to save from overthrows
Himself and friends in their retreat for home;
But so their fates he could not overcome,
Though much he thirsted it. O men unwise,
They perish'd by their own impieties,
That in their hunger's rapine would not shun
The oxen of the lofty-going Sun,
Who therefore from their eyes the day bereft
Of safe return. These acts, in some part left,
Tell us, as others, deified Seed of Jove.

FAGLES

Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns
driven time and again off course, once he had plundered
the hallowed heights of Troy.
Many cities of men he saw and learned their minds,
many pains he suffered, heartsick on the open sea,
fighting to save his life and bring his comrades home.
But he could not save them from disaster, hard as he strove –
the recklessness of their own ways destroyed them all,
the blind fools, they devoured the cattle of the Sun
and the Sungod blotted out the day of their return. . . .

[Anonymous No.11303801]

>>11303785
THOMAS HOBBES

Tell me, O Muse, th’ adventures of the man
That having sack’d the sacred town of Troy,
Wander’d so long at sea; what course he ran
By winds and tempests driven from his way:
That saw the cities, and the fashions knew
Of many men, but suffer’d grievous pain
To save his own life, and bring home his crew;
Though for his crew, all he could do was vain,
They lost themselves by their own insolence,
Feeding, like fools, on the Sun’s sacred kine;
Which did the splendid deity incense
To their dire fate. Begin, O Muse divine.

PINDEMONTE

Musa, quell’uom di moltiforme ingegno
Dimmi, che molto errò, poich’ebbe a terra
Gittate d’Iliòn le sacre torri;
Che città vide molte, e delle genti
5L’indol conobbe; che sovr’esso il mare
Molti dentro del cor sofferse affanni,
Mentre a guardar la cara vita intende,
E i suoi compagni a ricondur: ma indarno
Ricondur desiava i suoi compagni,
10Che delle colpe lor tutti periro.
Stolti! che osaro vïolare i sacri
Al Sole Iperïon candidi buoi
Con empio dente, ed irritaro il Nume,
Che del ritorno il dì lor non addusse.
15Deh parte almen di sì ammirande cose
Narra anco a noi, di Giove figlia, e Diva.

DE LISLE

Dis-moi, Muse, cet homme subtil qui erra si longtemps, après qu’il eut renversé la citadelle sacrée de Troiè. Et il vit les cités de peuples nombreux, et il connut leur esprit ; et, dans son cœur, il endura beaucoup de maux, sur la mer, pour sa propre vie et le retour de ses compagnons. Mais il ne les sauva point, contre son désir ; et ils périrent par leur impiété, les insensés ! ayant mangé les bœufs de Hèlios Hypérionade. Et ce dernier leur ravit l’heure du retour. Dis-moi une partie de ces choses, Déesse, fille de Zeus.

[Anonymous No.11303817]

>>11303779
She doesn't go far enough, it should be

Sing to me muse, of the woman Odysseia
Who was traveled far and wide
etc etc

[Anonymous No.11303823]

>>11303801
WILLIAM MORRIS

TELL me, O Muse, of the Shifty, the man who wandered afar,
After the Holy Burg, Troy-town, he had wasted with war ;
He saw the towns of menfolk, and the mind of men did he learn ;
As he warded his life in the world, and his fellow-farers' return,
Many a grief of heart on the deep-sea flood he bore,
Nor yet might he save his fellows, for all that he longed for it sore.
They died of their own souls' folly, for witless as they were
They ate up the beasts of the Sun, the Rider of the Air,
And he took away from them all their dear returning day;
O Goddess, O daughter of Zeus, from whencesoever ye may,
Gather the tale, and tell it, yea even to us at the last!


WILLIAM COWPER

Muse make the man thy theme, for shrewdness famed
And genius versatile, who far and wide
A Wand’rer, after Ilium overthrown,
Discover’d various cities, and the mind
And manners learn’d of men, in lands remote.
He num’rous woes on Ocean toss’d, endured,
Anxious to save himself, and to conduct
His followers to their home; yet all his care
Preserved them not; they perish’d self-destroy’d
By their own fault; infatuate! who devoured
The oxen of the all-o’erseeing Sun,
And, punish’d for that crime, return’d no more.
Daughter divine of Jove, these things record,
As it may please thee, even in our ears.


WILLIAM CULLEN BRYANT

TELL me, O Muse, of that sagacious man
Who, having overthrown the sacred town
Of Ilium, wandered far and visited
The capitals of many nations, learned
The customs of their dwellers, and endured
Great suffering on the deep : his life was oft
In peril, as he labored to bring back
His comrades to their homes. He saved them not,
Though earnestly he strove ; they perished all,
Through their own folly ; for they banqueted,
Madmen ! upon the oxen of the Sun, —
The all-o'erlooking Sun, who cut them off
From their return. O goddess, virgin-child
Of Jove, relate some part of this to me.

[Anonymous No.11303845]

>“One of the things I struggled with,” Wilson continued, sounding more exhilarated than frustrated as she began to unpack “polytropos,” the first description we get of Odysseus, “is of course this whole question of whether he is passive — the ‘much turning’ or ‘much turned’ — right? This was —”

>“Treat me,” I interrupted, “as if I don’t know Greek,” as, in fact, I do not.

>“The prefix poly,” Wilson said, laughing, “means ‘many’ or ‘multiple.’ Tropos means ‘turn.’ ‘Many’ or ‘multiple’ could suggest that he’s much turned, as if he is the one who has been put in the situation of having been to Troy, and back, and all around, gods and goddesses and monsters turning him off the straight course that, ideally, he’d like to be on. Or, it could be that he’s this untrustworthy kind of guy who is always going to get out of any situation by turning it to his advantage. It could be that he’s the turner.”

And so she chose 'complicated', which doesn't mean any of those things.

[Anonymous No.11303876]

There's a reason why Athenian men kept women in their place which was at home managing domestic affairs.

[Anonymous No.11303882]

>>11303876
Her translation is good, though.

Compare with the ones posted above. Hers is not necessarily worse than some of them.

Anyway, the Athenians admired Sappho.

[Anonymous No.11303884]

>>11303475
She has daddy issues

Her father divorced her mother and she identifies Odysseus with him. By making a shit translation shes getting "back at him".

[Anonymous No.11303903]

>>11303785
Fagles, always

[Anonymous No.11303957]

>>11303882
Every other translation above has some passion and respect for past translations. Wilson throws a grey, thin brick through all of them, and says "Homer, in my view, is both stylistically clearer and emotionally more complicated than many contemporary English translations convey." As if she is setting a standard for accurate translations. As if this >>11303845 makes any sense, and doesn't just blow up any past translator's work.

[Anonymous No.11303962]

>>11303585
kys faggot

[Anonymous No.11303981]

>>11303882
Her translation is complete garbage.
Lattimore
>Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
Fitzgerald
>and learned the minds of many distant men,
and weathered many bitter nights and days
Wilson
>and where he went, and who he met, the pain
he suffered in the storms at sea
If you actually cannot tell why hers sucks please go read YA shit

[Anonymous No.11303994]

>>11303512
You are a hero

[Anonymous No.11303998]

>>11303981
>and where he went, and who he met, the pain he suffered in the storms at sea
Women are a mistake

[Anonymous No.11303999]

Wilson also lapses into bizarre circumlocutions around the story of the Cyclops. Homer describes Polyphemus, who eats six of Odysseus’s men raw, as “athemistos”—literally something like “without a sense of divine right or wrong,” but “lawless” usually does the job in English. Lack of respect for themis, true right and wrong, is posited by Homer’s contemporary Hesiod as the cause of all human evil. Wilson, however, decides in her introduction that the story of the Cyclops is really a story about colonialism (“the Polyphemus episode seems to meditate uneasily on the processes of colonization”), and hence it is her duty to resist any tendency to dehumanize the sixty-foot-tall, one-eyed, flesh-eating son of the sea-god. She translates athemistos as “maverick,” an offense not only against sensibility, but also against the aesthetics of her poem—the word leaps off the page, wildly inappropriate to Wilson’s typical register. Needless to say I just about fell over laughing. And huperphialos, which she is happy to render “insolent” and “arrogant” when it comes to the suitors, she changes to “highminded” for Polyphemus. The sight of drunk Polyphemus vomiting up wine and chunks of human flesh in his cave was not enough to get Wilson to shy away from calling him “highminded.” I suppose ideology is not dead. She also uses the odd circumlocution “the Cyclopic people” for the Greek plural Cyclopes, which also jars. The shame of all this is that it subverts her own thesis: she claims the passage has some relevance to colonization. It’s much easier for a student to see the resonance between this episode and Kipling’s “lesser breeds without the Law” if athemistos is translated “lawless.” But as I have said, it is very hard to do any kind of close reading of Homer using Wilson’s translation alone. It simply is not faithful enough.
>the cyclopic people

[Anonymous No.11304003]

>>11303882
That is completely not true. This isn't a pure Homer. She simplifies the descriptions of anything cultural which would be alien to a non-education reader. She chooses at every possible turn to translate a word which multiple meanings into a simple one with only one. This is always done to treat Odysseus as bad as possible and she does it to make every single female in the novel better.

Of all the translations of the Odyssey the only one I can think of that is less faithful to the original text is Pope's. But Pope is writing something so different from the original I hesitate to even call it a translation. It's more like a new work that is heavily based on the original. The important thing is everyone knows that and Pope doesn't argue otherwise. She on the other hand has created a translation which is 1/3 shorter than the original and that intentionally changes the meaning of Homer to something new.

[Anonymous No.11304008]

>>11303682
>I am a Latino (mostly white
(X) Doubt

[Anonymous No.11304010]

>>11303585
America belongs to Amerindians the same as europe belongs to europeans.

Time to get replaced, subhuman.

[Anonymous No.11304012]

>the Greeks weren't white (stop trying to appropriate them, white man!)
>Homer was a Greek
>Homer wasn't white
>Wilson tries to correct Homer
>Wilson is a white woman
>a white is trying to correct a person of colour
Does anyone else see this as highly problematic? And then she talks about colonialism as a white Anglo trying to whitesplain my nigger Homer into conforming to her white standards of morality?

[Anonymous No.11304013]

red pill me on Odysseus

[Anonymous No.11304019]

>>11304012
A cis heterosexual woman too, when Homer was almost certainly genderfluid and queer

[Anonymous No.11304025]

>>11303585
>2018
>still thinking anyone gives a shit about being called a bigot

[Anonymous No.11304029]

>>11304012
Welcome to the world of the SJW. Where logic is for neckbeards and consistency is a pipe dream.

[Anonymous No.11304030]

>>11304013
A true man

[Anonymous No.11304032]

>>11303682
Tell me on some cold-ass lil fucked up man.
Muse, tell me how tha fuck da thug wandered n' was lost
when dat schmoooove muthafucka had wrecked tha holy hood of Troy,
and where da thug went, n' whoz ass he met, tha pain
he suffered up in tha storms at sea, n' how
he hit dat shiznit ta save his wild lil' freakadelic game n' brang his crazy-ass men
back home yo. Dude failed ta keep dem safe; skanky fools,
they ate tha Sun God’s cattle, n' tha god
kept dem from home. Now goddess, lil pimp of Zeus,
tell tha oldschool rap fo' our modern times.

[Anonymous No.11304033]

>>11303682
>Italian
>white
You may pick one and one only.

[Anonymous No.11304035]

>>11303999
>>11303620

Gosh these reviewers are actually so kind to her, i'm really surprised. They didn't say she slaughtered homer or anything of the kind even with her simplification/modernization etc etc. Good for them.

Poetry is a dying art, we're not going to see any more pope like translations in our lifetime.

[Anonymous No.11304037]

>>11303981
>>11303882
Her translation is the worst of all posted above. Some of them were not so great either, though for different reasons. The only way I see to make hers look better is it someone went ahead and did the (much necessary in this day and age) Hawaiian Pidgin translation.

[Anonymous No.11304059]

How was Ancient Greece such a patriarchal shithole of boylovers when, in fact, as it now turns out, the borderline idolatrous reverence for Homer was for a poem which praised women, condemned men and preached against the horrors of warfare and colonialism? Did those shitlords simply not understand the revolutionary, progressive import of Homer's message?

[Anonymous No.11304063]

>>11303475
Άνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν: πολλῶν δ ̓ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα kαὶ νόον ἔγνω, πολλὰ δ ̓ ὅ γ ̓ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν kατὰ θυμόν,
5 Ἀ ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν kαὶ νόστον ἑταίρων. ἀλλ ̓ οὐδ ̓ ὣς ἑτάρους ἐρρύσατο, ἱέμενός περ: αὐτῶν γὰρ σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν ὄλοντο, νήπιοι, οἳ kατὰ βοῦς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο ἤσθιον: αὐτὰρ ὁ τοῖσιν ἀφείλετο νόστιμον ἦμαρ.

reading the original in ancient greek above, and the Translation of Kazantzakis in Modern below, there is alot being missed in the language and the beauty of the words,

Tον άντρα, Μούσα, τον πολύτροπο τραγούδα μου, που πλήθος
διάβηkε τόπους, αφού πάτησε της Τροίας το kάστρο το άγιο, kαι πολιτείες πολλές εγνώρισε, πολλών βουλές ανθρώπων,kι αρίφνητα τυράννια ετράβηξε στα πέλαγα η kαρδιά του,
για να σωθεί kι αυτός παλεύοντας kαι πίσω τους συντρόφους να φέρει ̓ kι όμως δεν τους γλίτωσε, kι ας το ποθούσε τόσο'
τι από τις ίδιες τους εχάθηkαν τις ανομιές εkείνοι —
οι ανέμυαλοι, που τ ̓ ουρανόδρομου τα βόδια έφαγαν Ήλιου, kι αυτός τη μέρα τους αρνήστηkε του γυρισμού


Her translation is for little kids, its terribly simplified. The complexity of the Greek language which pain even the Greeks is part and parcel of the intelligence. Words are complicated and have symbolic meanings,
the one approaching the beauty is Fitzerald.

Example Polytropos Πολυτροπος doesn't mean Complicated! It means the man that is smart and devious and that can find many ways to resolve a problem man of many ways is much closer

[Anonymous No.11304071]

>>11304012
Nice. Not to mention a sight-privileged first-worlder pointing out to a gaze-fluid avision native what things ""really""look like (such as the ""actual"" colour of wine). Can nobody see the injustice?

[Anonymous No.11304074]

>>11304012
>tfw you're greek and you didnt understand cultural appropration until now

[Anonymous No.11304080]

>>11303475

Actually this is quite all right as modern women have often taken the minor, subservient role of translating, commenting, interpreting (as opposed to creating). I began to notice this a few years ago while reading the sumptuous Book of Kells edited by Francoise Henry, and since that time I've also appreciated Kathleen Freeman's commentaries on the presocratics, and one or two other women's intermediary voices.

Women translating and interpreting the ancients isn't such a terrible thing.

[Anonymous No.11304081]

>>11303475
>“Part of fighting misogyny in the current world is having a really clear sense of what the structures of thought and the structures of society are that have enabled androcentrism in different cultures, including our own.“
Considering that everything these days revolves around the pussy, women get preferential treatment in the judiciary system and untalented dilettantes like Kaur are praised the new Shakespeare, I kinda feel an unstoppable urge to choke anybody who seriously thinks our culture is androcentric

[Anonymous No.11304088]

>>11304080
either bait or you're a dumb

[Anonymous No.11304089]

>>11304081
Even if women have lobbied for preferential treatment, there is still a seething resentment because if a woman tries really, really hard she can be above average, but no woman can ever attain to Shakespeare or Homer in the arts. They are creatures of middling intellect, and it infuriates them because no matter how hard they stamp their feet or pout their lips - they will never be great. And they cannot, of course, take responsibility for this lack so it must be men's fault somehow.

[Anonymous No.11304102]

>>11303779
Why won't she even mention Helios, the name of the sun god? Not only is the translation soulless and dull it also clearly leaves out so much important content.

[Anonymous No.11304103]

>>11303779
That's a translation for ESLs. Not even bad, just written in a simplified language.

[Anonymous No.11304109]

>>11304089
This. People like to dismiss Schopenhauer around here, but tell them to actually name one thing in On Women that is wrong and watch how they screech like the little pussys they are.

[Anonymous No.11304214]

>>11304010
i think you may be on the wrong board, baitman

[Anonymous No.11304223]

She can read Greek so she's still less of a pseud than most of /lit/

[Anonymous No.11304253]

>>11304214
>le evil /pol/ boogey man
Cry harder.

[Anonymous No.11304273]

>>11304253
>>le evil /pol/ boogey man
I thought you were that one guyon /his/ because that's where I normally see tht bait posted, but since you decided to make that box standard kneejerk reply about how people complain about /pol/, I now know you're the typical /pol/teen.

[Anonymous No.11304281]

>>11304109
>”The only man, who truly cannot live without women, is the gynecologist.“
> — Daddy Schopi

>”A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”
> — Feminist “intellectuals”

Women can’t express their thoughts in a salient manner for shit,

[Anonymous No.11304291]

>>11303625
>Female perspective
Oh so she speaks for all females now? It's her perspective and nothing more, nerd

[Anonymous No.11304300]

>>11304273
>ridiculing retards who get triggered by /pol/sters counts as bait
>”GET OF MY FUCKING SAFE SPACE, REEEEEEEEEEE!”
Jesus. Can you be more pathetic? People who whine about pollacks whining are the ones who should leave this board t bh desu.

[Anonymous No.11304323]

>>11304300
>someone posts a non-sequiter repose to >>11303585
>I post something about him being on the wrong board
>get replied to with muh "muh /pol/ boogey man" even though I didn't bring /pol/ up
>ect

the only reason I mentioned up /pol/ in that last post is because >>11304253 already brought it up.

[Anonymous No.11304380]

>>11303512
based

[Anonymous No.11304381]

>>11304223
shitting on Homer this hard and then hiding behind platitudes like “it’s streamlined for a simpler audience” and “but I’m the first WOEMAN to accomplish this feat!” Doesn’t make you less of a pseud anon

[Anonymous No.11304385]

DAY IN DAY OUT

[Anonymous No.11304410]

>>11303475
>that single Loeb Classic on the shelf behind her
>collection so paltry they’re falling over

[Anonymous No.11304426]

>>11304323
>tfw when he doesn’t recognize that >>11303585 itself was a non sequitur
Look, all I want is for you to stop giving /pol/sters legitimacy by posting replies of you getting triggered, aka don’t feed the troll. Is that really to much to ask?

[Anonymous No.11304438]

>>11303499
it took this long for this to be posted.

[Anonymous No.11304447]

>>11303512
yes
YES

[Anonymous No.11304511]

>>11303512
>>11303585
How to get (you)s: the posts

[Anonymous No.11304533]

>>11304029
>using sjw in 2018

[Anonymous No.11304535]

>>11304533
>SJW
>Social Justice Warrior
>corrupting an ancient story for the sake of giving a female perspective isn't being a warrior for social justice
okay m8. keep posting your maymays because you're so above everyone else

[Anonymous No.11304542]

>>11304535
How is it corrupted? You can still read other translations, it's not like they're going anywhere

[Anonymous No.11304565]

>>11304542
Do you seriously believe that a translation of the odyssey that 1) is aimed at women 2) has simplified the language until all the meaning has been lost and 3) has been translated by a white woman ISN'T going to become a main source for the more left-leaning Universities?

Me and you can go read a Lattimore because we know about it. I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the go-to version simply because the rest of them have been dismissed as patriarchal and problematic and this is the only one that's PC enough for school.

[Anonymous No.11304567]

The people that complain about this translation probably read an abridged version for children themselves lmao. Translating the oddysey or say the bible into contemporary language isn't heresy, you fools, it will be "traditional" in a 100 years.

[Anonymous No.11304576]

@11304567
Go to bed Emily

[Anonymous No.11304582]

>>11304567
>polytropos
>complicated
Don’t delude yourself. It’s a sloppy translation and the example I mentioned was from the very first lines,

[Anonymous No.11304624]

>>11304081
>I kinda feel an unstoppable urge to choke anybody
That's toxic masculinity, and I'm not joking. Maybe you should be comfortable in your own skin so you don't hurt anyone without reason.

[Anonymous No.11304687]

>>11304624
>without a reason
>implying

[Anonymous No.11304697]

>>11303512
how upvote on 5chan xdD??

[Anonymous No.11304893]

>https://chireviewofbooks.com/2018/01/16/how-emily-wilson-translated-the-odyssey/
>"Translators get away with that kind of thing all the time, because there’s an assumption that male translators don’t need to worry about gender, and that a clunky English style guarantees an “authentic,” “accurate” or “unbiased” translation. It’s not OK and it’s not true. In my work on my translation of the Odyssey, I didn’t want to be in any way untruthful or irresponsible about what the original text is saying or doing. I tried to think, as much as I could, about how my own identities and histories might affect my interestedness in the poem: as a woman and as a gender-aware feminist (which isn’t necessarily implied by the first), and as an immigrant, a mother, a writer/poet, and so on. I thought and wrote a lot on the side about all the many ways I felt the Odyssey mapping onto elements of my own life." -Wilson
ya'll cis-privliged males need to get your heads out of your 'clunky English style' assess

[Anonymous No.11304910]

>>11304893
she goes on in the same interview to say:
>"since I wasn’t looking at any other translations while I worked on the Greek and my own version, I didn’t really know whether (or if so, how exactly) the text I was creating was different from those created by men. It was only at the end, once I was done with my version and had to explain to the general public what was distinctive about it, that I went and looked closely at various scenes in other translations—and realized that there are some very significant differences that do have to do with gender."
This is what happens when academics think the most important thing about their work is something that they bring to the table as an identity
For fucks sake, scholasticism used to be about giving one's intellect to something greater, now everyone in the academy is fucking convinced that the greatness is being brought to the table by their individual, snowflake existence completely unique of the entire world's history that preceded them
Also, for emphasis:
>"I wasn’t looking at any other translations while I worked on the Greek and my own version"

[Anonymous No.11304917]

>>11304697
Do they draw by holding the arrow like that instead of three fingers on the string?

[Anonymous No.11304925]

>>11304438
Fuck off

One of the best contemporary translations is by a woman, far superior than fucking fagles yet no where near as popular. Wheres her female privilege?

[Anonymous No.11304972]

>>11304925
no thanks, I think I'll make this my home board, oh wait, it already is

[Anonymous No.11304989]

>>11303475
>odyssey:tell me about a complicated man
>hamlet: suicide... meh
>faust: devil powers plox
>kant: thinking and stuff
>plato: socrates said so
Fucking liberating.

[Anonymous No.11304997]

>>11303484
Tradition is for racist, sexist, cisgendered, heterosexual wh*te m*les. Your time is up, buddy.

[Anonymous No.11305036]

>>11304989
>lolita: what a tight little piece
>a tale of two cities: shits fucked up and shit
>the trial: woop woop issa sound of da police
>anna karenina: we live in a society
>gravitys rainbow: LOOOOUUDDD NOIISSEEESSSS

[Anonymous No.11305050]

>>11303512
based

[Anonymous No.11305217]

>>11303512
braver than the marines

[Anonymous No.11305236]

>>11304925
The cover may be the best one, yet, but otherwise your post is pretty retarded. Just for the record, /lit/ doesn’t like Fagles all that much, either. It’s either Fitzgerald or Lattimore and this sure as fuck isn’t anywhere near them in terms of quality.

[Anonymous No.11305260]

>>11304997
This. The future is female, shitlord.

[Anonymous No.11305266]

How many people in this thread actually know Ancient Greek and have read Homer in the original?

[Anonymous No.11305270]

| if
girls run the world
like Beyoncé
says, why do
we need
feminism again?

Really
makes you
think. |

w.w.

[Anonymous No.11305272]

>>11303738
>Is that translation of the opening line actually more accurate though?

Do you even πολύτροπος?

>The latter word is, appropriately enough, a flexible one, meaning literally “of many turns,” and ranging from “much traveled” to “versatile,” “clever,” “complex,” “shifty,” “unreliable,” and “deceptive.”

[Anonymous No.11305282]

>>11305266
i unironically read this every day
https://archive.org/details/iliadhomerwitha00clargoog

my ancient greek is abysmal though, it is largely a larp

[Anonymous No.11305294]

>>11303785

Chapman is the most underrated of the bunch.
Much power in his words.

[Anonymous No.11305296]

>>11305236
You haven't read it, you don't know Homeric Greek, yet you have no doubt about its poor quality. Amazing.

[Anonymous No.11305300]

>>11303957

Her's is a dull and humorless outlook unwilling to pierce the dull grey pall of her limited vision.

[Anonymous No.11305328]

>>11303512
this but unironically.

source: my best friend (sigh) works for EliteDaily . we don't talk much.

[Anonymous No.11305329]

>>11303475
if you know the story behind that cover image it tells you everything you need to know about this translation already

[Anonymous No.11305336]

>>11303512
rules 39 & 40

[Anonymous No.11305352]

If the exact same translation was written by a conservative white male, /lit/ would be praising it.

[Anonymous No.11305353]

>>11305272
Complicated is not a bad choice, since it implies moral and psychic complexity - albeit at the expense of the "skill" aspect.

[Anonymous No.11305384]

>>11305353

It captures something important, but it comes across as lazy or dismissive.

[Anonymous No.11305406]

>>11305384
>lazy or dismissive
a woman's subconscious attitude towards a man's story, written by a man nonetheless? Never.

[Anonymous No.11305427]

>>11305352
pretty much, Wilson is an excellent author her book on Seneca is well worth the read and one of the better Roman biographies i have read. You have to remember that there is a vast range of ages here, with most people not really being old enough to have opinions worth noticing.

[Anonymous No.11305454]

>>11304997
Do you make up these strawmen and laugh internally? What's the point of such low-quality posting? I hope you're at least having fun or something.

[Anonymous No.11305461]

>>11305454
Stop having autism.

[Anonymous No.11305466]

>>11305296
>You haven't read it
You sure?

>”Yeah, because if you did, you’d agree with me.”
No. Fuck you crosswise.

[Anonymous No.11305467]

>>11305352
Back to /r/eddit 4 u

Everyone knows that /lit/ is full of pseuds and gatekeepers who would hate the translation no matter who wrote it.

[Anonymous No.11305471]

I think this board is autistic about tradition most of the time but I'm looking this up and holy fuck is it bad

[Anonymous No.11305482]

>>11305352
Except that a conservative white male would have never written such a translation. What’s your point? That since it’s new, we should automatically think it’s more accurate or better? That’s not how it works.
Fagles’ is also relatively new and /lit/ is not enthusiastic about that one either.

[Anonymous No.11305494]

>>11305353
>albeit at the expense of the "skill" aspect.
Exactly.

>”It’s good, except that ot’s bad in this regard.”
Might as well say “cancer’s not that bad, albeit you most likely die sooner or later.”

[Anonymous No.11305500]

>>11305466
So you haven't then.

Q.E.D.

[Anonymous No.11305504]

>>11305471
I think it looks great, I'm gonna buy a copy for everyone in my family. This will undoubtably be the new 'standard' translation within a few decades.

[Anonymous No.11305514]

>>11305494
All translations lose something. The others haven't captured the implications of shiftiness inherent to Odysseus' character.

[Anonymous No.11305515]

>>11303475
genuine sexist reporting in, and i think the first line is not even bad. The translation on the whole is probably garbage because women but I dont see the issue in 'Tell me about a complicated man'. People have taken far greater liberties, and you're all being autistic in getting mad about it

[Anonymous No.11305529]

>>11305500
For the record, I read the first two chapters and decided I’d rather stick with Fitzgerald.
You can stop being a butthurt autist now.

[Anonymous No.11305539]

>>11305514
>All translations lose something
Some more than others.

Why do you care if people stick to older translations they already know and appreciate? God, /lit/‘s fucking pedantic sometimes.

[Anonymous No.11305544]

>>11305515
>>11305504
>>11305427
>>11304567
>>11303626
>>11303484

I swear there is the author is in here shitposting

[Anonymous No.11305551]

>>11305544
Based paranoid misogynist. Don't smoke too much.

[Anonymous No.11305553]

>>11304567
>bible into contemporary language isn't heresy
yes it is you protestant

[Anonymous No.11305561]

>>11305551
Calling a man misogynistic is as insulting as calling him a biped. Yes, I’m a misogynist. So what?

[Anonymous No.11305567]

>>11305553
Jesus talked in slang, he was basically a hood rat back in the day. Same with Plato.

[Anonymous No.11305589]

>>11305551
>>11305561

She's still shitposting

[Anonymous No.11305619]

>>11305500

Good Doubles, and I'm not the person you've been replying to. That said, this is an easily broken Q.E.D.

>>11305466

Could merely post a passage, a given page number, how it compares to a passage in a preferred translation. Now, does he need to read every single line of a translation to know it is a poor one?

I read Canto I of the S. Fowler Wright English translation of The Inferno before I put it down. Wright didn't bother translating the entire Divine Comedy, just Inferno. It's practically unreadable.

Now, I could read more to get a feel of just how bad the translation is, but I'd rather not offend the notion of a story I love. I could not personally blame the person you're arguing with if they felt the same after a period of time.

[Anonymous No.11305625]

>>11303512

I can't decide if this is genius or retarded

[Anonymous No.11305628]

>>11304074
lmao how? Your culture has been “appropriated” the most.

[Anonymous No.11305720]

>>11303512
submit this to vox

[Anonymous No.11305724]

>>11305628

It's fine when your friends do it, it sucks when people you don't like do it.

[Anonymous No.11305766]

>>11305539
When did I say that I cared at all about what translations people use man? What the fuck? I'm just defending the decision of this translation.

[Anonymous No.11305780]

>>11303645
I could just imagine Viper the Rapper rapping this

[Anonymous No.11306248]

Tell me about Odysseus, why did he spend 10 years at sea?

[Anonymous No.11306280]

>>11306248
He's a complicated guy.

[Anonymous No.11306306]

>>11303634
Because it's depressing

[Anonymous No.11306322]

how many times will we have this thread?

[Anonymous No.11306329]

>>11303627
Imagine being a dumb cunt such as yourself

[Anonymous No.11306361]

>>11306322

Once more, and perhaps again.

[Anonymous No.11306392]

>>11303512
Thanks

[Anonymous No.11306688]

>>11303591
Believeable

[Anonymous No.11306731]

>>11305720
better yet https://twitter.com/annanorthtweets
make sure to screenshot her response

[Anonymous No.11306753]

>>11306731
i don't use twitter but i'm sure someone else itt does

[Anonymous No.11307011]

>>11303512
based

[Anonymous No.11307972]

HAYES

They say this cat Odysseus is a bad mother - (Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' 'bout Odysseus - (Then we can dig it)

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but this woman

[Anonymous No.11307979]

>translating polytropon to "complicated"

[Anonymous No.11308350]

I read the T.E Lawrence translation that was written in prose desu

[Anonymous No.11308367]

>>11303645
Keep going.

[Anonymous No.11308508]

>>11303585
found the identity politics faggot

[Anonymous No.11308517]

>>11304008
>>11304033
56%

[Anonymous No.11308552]

>>11304013
he was the the best man that ever lived

[Anonymous No.11308579]

>>11303733
>leftist
>liberal
You were never a leftist.

[Anonymous No.11308584]

>>11308579
oh shut up you dramatic faggot, it's not a secret club

[Anonymous No.11308587]

>>11303512
Hyde is that you?

[Anonymous No.11308854]

>>11303801
Is that the same Thomas Hobbes that wrote Leviathan? I like his style

[Anonymous No.11309104]

Say turn man story
Of guy who wander
After troy
And make new
/int/ pals
Many pains
For his friends
Not praise the sun

[Anonymous No.11309216]

>>11309104
yes

[Anonymous No.11309281]

>>11308579
like it or not, the definition of liberal has shifted from economically liberal to socially progressive. that's just how words work, dude.

[Anonymous No.11309337]

>>11304089
Women can't even understand the concept of greatness. They understand being popular or being rich, but not being great.

[Anonymous No.11309341]

>>11303779
>Now goddess, child of Zeus,
>tell the old story for our modern times.
hahaha she's basically self-inserting as part of the epic. Holy shit, that's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.11309569]

>>11305352
What the fuck are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.11310253]

>>11303585
>bigot

existence instantly discarded

[Anonymous No.11310394]

>>11303653
This.

[Anonymous No.11310469]

>>11307972
Nice one lad

[Anonymous No.11310604]

>>11303475
>complicated man
I hate this translation of Odysseus' epithet which should mean changeable, much turned, man of twists and turns etc. I think complicated makes it sound as if he is a high school crush.

"I really like Odysseus, he's 'complictaed'"


however, Wilson's translation still may be a good one, haven't read it but you are all so misogynistic that you will judge only the first line. Most translators get somethings spot on while others are completely missed, regardless of gender.

[Anonymous No.11310629]

>>11306280
For you.

[Anonymous No.11311111]

>>11310604

[Anonymous No.11311149]

>>11303785
Goddamn Fagles is amazing.

[Anonymous No.11311152]

>>11306248
Underrated comment.

[Anonymous No.11311169]

>>11303512
what's it like being incel?

[Anonymous No.11311244]

"Woman is the pleb of the world."
t. John Lennon.

[Anonymous No.11312756]

>>11303512
Based

[Anonymous No.11313013]

/lit/ I had no idea so many of you guys were such faggots. Really disappointing.

As though the Odyssey hasn't been rewritten and reinterpreted a thousand times already. It belongs to the world, not to you.

[Anonymous No.11313090]

>>11303475
>mfw I just got this version and can't return it
How fucked is it? Was really looking forward to reading it.

[Anonymous No.11313138]

>>11304438
It was the second post.

[Anonymous No.11313436]

>>11313013
I am part of the world, you spastic, which means it belongs to me, and I say it's a piece of shit. People who respond to criticism of something as if our disgust at it means we're denying its legitimacy to exist altogether, as if we even could, are the real fucking faggots. The translation is bad. It's written to suit modern political agenda. Oh, but it's got a right to exist! It's so lovely! Fucking hang yourself, you geeky cunt.

[Anonymous No.11313536]

Vox is just vice with a different color scheme

[Anonymous No.11313583]

>>11303785
I read Fagles Iliad and now I want to read Pope.

[Anonymous No.11313584]

what's the verdict on the War Nerd Illiad? Besides
>prose translation

[Anonymous No.11313685]

>>11303512

[Anonymous No.11313844]

>>11303475
I am not a homeric scholar, or versed in any dialect of ancient greek so I can't really comment on her translation but her choice of using the Ladies In Blue for her cover really confuses me. Why would she choose a Minoan fresco as a symbol of an Achean epic? From what I understand Wilson does have a background in greek history, so what is the point of having such a disparate element ?

[Anonymous No.11313847]

>>11309281
Only in America, here in Australia liberal is pretty much exclusively used in the economic sense.

[Anonymous No.11314254]

>>11313013
That's a nice cop out response except many of the better translations will have notes on corrupted passages, etymology of words and cross-referencing with other manuscripts to find discrepancies - all for the sake of ACCURACY. We may never have the original Odyssey, but coming in and rewriting the whole thing to fit your world view is the best way to make sure future generations don't either.

[Anonymous No.11315240]

>>11303475
>>11303512

[Anonymous No.11315887]

>>11313090
Look somebody just give me a quick rundown please. Did she fuck it up or not? I wan't to know if my money's been wasted.

[Anonymous No.11315913]

>>11313844
>Why would she choose a Minoan fresco as a symbol of an Achean epic?

In all likelihood, the choice was out of her hands.

The art was probably chosen by the publisher because it looked nice and was vaguely thematic.

[Anonymous No.11315943]

>>11315240

[Anonymous No.11316033]

>>11303475
There are 100s of translations, some dude could turn it into a really long rap and I would not care. I am only here to say that the Odyssey was written by a woman.

[Anonymous No.11316056]

>>11303484
Someone readying her spear to stab into the side of Christ. These people want to destroy all logos.

[Anonymous No.11316160]

>>11303645
your rhymes are wack
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0D5PeHzHmqK

[Anonymous No.11316205]

>>11315240
>town of troy
I never read anything beyond the first line of her translation, but that is unbelievably bad. It is funny that they give the Fagles as a comparison with the intent of showing how 'contemporary' her translation is (I'm beginning to believe that word means nothing but dumbed down), but instead the effect is a complete and utter BTFO

[Anonymous No.11316263]

>>11311169
>"I-if you insult a womyn and don't worship womyn daily, you must be a virgin!"
Fuck off, bugman.

[Anonymous No.11316274]

Imagine publishing something so completely puerile that you actually regress comprehension of a work that's 2000 fucking years old.

[Anonymous No.11316275]

>>11316263
not the anon you're replying to, but the anon didn't insult a womyn, he went a bit off the rails.

[Anonymous No.11316285]

>>11303785
Chapman think he slick

[Anonymous No.11316292]

>>11316263
All women are queens, show respect peasant. Men literally exist to please women.

[Anonymous No.11316294]

>>11316263
i am highly annoyed that my casual misogyny has become associated with elliot rodger type of person. like it was not so long ago that it was just common sense that women are basically insane and retarded and now we have this gay charade of pretending they are equal to men but also actually better than men

[Anonymous No.11316299]

>>11303801
Is De Lisle an original translation or just an English-to-French of another translator?
Its interesting.

[Anonymous No.11316319]

>>11303512
based

[Anonymous No.11316320]

>>11316294
>. like it was not so long ago that it was just common sense that women are basically insane and retarded
It still is common sense. Don't let corporate media tell you otherwise.

[Anonymous No.11316327]

>>11303645
>>11303682
It’s a wacky idea but it’s clear nobosy on /lit/ actually listens to hip-hop so obviously no one could actually sell that idea.

[Anonymous No.11316341]

>>11303682
I mean, you COULD do it but honestly how does it enhance the original?
No you're not going to get urban youths to pick up the Classics by appealing to their bliggety blackness

[Anonymous No.11316543]

>>11313844
The choice of Ladies In Blue doesn't have anything to do with where the art came from, besides being broadly Greek; the choice is located more in the fact of its being a depiction of women, which points to how Wilson conceives of what her translation is aiming for, and how she's marketing it and herself.

But also, that fresco is fragmentary, the faces of the women not actually surviving. It was suggested at the time that the "completed" or "reimagined" fresco came out that it looked like the women were informed more by what was fashionable in Vogue magazines at the time then anything Greek.

[Anonymous No.11316730]

>>11303512

[Anonymous No.11316823]

>>11303512
BASED

[Anonymous No.11316840]

>>11316341
Homer was black.

[Anonymous No.11316882]

>>11315887
Read the whole entire thing here. I stole it from the bookstore not knowing what I was getting into. On the whole I was pretty satisfied with the work and thought, upon finishing it, that it was decent enough. Though now I'm having second thoughts, reading through this thread on the horrid way she translated polytropos, as well as the way in which she translated the section on the Cyclops, see >>11303999

Though since Wilson is the only translation I read, I can really have no way of knowing whether these criticisms comprise the usual 4chan spastics, or genuine, cogent, well deserved scorn. I'm already trying to complete book 8 of Thucydides, though, and I'm really not going to pick up another version of the Odyssey just to make sure the one I've read already is shit or not.

[Anonymous No.11317102]

>>11316882
Translations can vary widely enough for me to look out for other translations for the second read, and having no knowledge of the language you can still tell the difference between translations. Sometimes it's mostly meter and register, maybe they're not always felt that much, but in other poems it can be important how or if the translator adopted the rhyming scheme.
In any case I'd like to suggest at least keeping one other, maybe more philologically oriented translation around for comparison. The differences are potentially huge and very interesting.

[Anonymous No.11317107]

>>11317102
having no knowledge of the original language*
but you get the point

[Anonymous No.11317189]

>>11315240
Note how Fagles' translation can actually be read as a poem, while Wilson's has almost Kapuresque random line breaks in the middle.

[Anonymous No.11318507]

>>11303999
>the cyclopic people
What the fuck did I just get myself into? What do I do with this fucking book I just wasted my money on?

[Anonymous No.11318517]

>>11316882
>>11317102
>>11317107
I'm just so tired of subversive elements being inserted into historical texts through excuses like "translation".

[Anonymous No.11318644]

>>11316882
We need to add her version to this part

[Anonymous No.11318651]

>“Sing to me of the man, Muse,
>“Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story / of that man skilled in all ways of contending.”
>“Tell me about a complicated man.”

[Anonymous No.11318750]

>>11303779
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

i thought this was just a standard anti-woman meme but her translation is DOGSHIT, i could literally feel my imagination deflating as I went from Fitzgerald to Wilson

>>11303999
I read part of the review this is from (http://www.kirkcenter.org/bookman/article/a-coat-of-varnish)) - look at the level of Soviet-style self censorship.

he starts by praising her to the skies, which a) is really weird considering how the review ends, and b) makes NO SENSE given the lowwww quality of the textual quotes he posts for consideration. I thought at first this had to be acidic sarcasm:
>And genius is certainly one of the first words that comes to mind when reading Emily Wilson’s clean-lined, compulsively readable translation of the Odyssey, one of the most interesting versions of the epic ever produced in English

he has to - HAS TO - know that this isn't true; he read the fucking original in Greek. But he can't say it, even to himself

like look at this garbage

>No no, my lord! Please do not make me go!
>Let me stay here! You cannot bring them back,
>and you will not return here if you try.
>Hurry, we must escape with these men here!
>We have a chance to save our lives!

"No no my lord! Please do not make me go!" tinny, lifeless, flat, like a joke, or lines from a bad musical, intentionally campy

>They shouted out to her. She came at once,
>opened the shining doors, and asked them in.
>So thinking nothing of it, in they went.
>Eurylochus alone remained outside,
>suspecting trickery. She led them in,
>sat them on chairs, and blended them a potion
>of barley, cheese, and golden honey, mixed
>with Pramnian wine. She added potent drugs
>to make them totally forget their home.
>They took and drank the mixture. Then she struck them,
>using her magic wand, and penned them in
>the pigsty. They were turned to pigs in body
>and voice and hair; their minds remained the same.

>asked them in
>in they went
>She led them in

IN WHAT? IN WHERE? WHAT IS THE REFERENT OF THIS "IN"??? WHAT IS MY IMAGINATION SUPPOSED TO DO??!!

this trash doesn't even read like verse, it's clipped 8th grade prose. it's insulting that this would even be offered up to the public as literature. But the same writer who wrote the paragraph you posted said this

> Wilson is the most pleasant news we have had since Robert Frost.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? IS THE STALINIST ACADEMIC DOUBLE-THINK REALLY THIS BAD?

defund defund defund defund defund defund defund....

[Anonymous No.11318846]

>>11303512
valid

[Anonymous No.11318859]

>>11318750
All books are to be re-written, don't you remember?

[Anonymous No.11318886]

>>11304533
yeah, I prefer the technical term "white trash - liberal variant". All these people with red and blue hair are just the cletus' and billy joes of our time where outright ignorance is looked down on, so they try to hide it with whatever the fuck they think counts as politics.

[Anonymous No.11318911]

>>11318750
>For any lover of traditional English verse, Wilson is the most pleasant news we have had since Robert Frost. Gone is the amorphous “six-beat line,” gone is the verse which ends when the writer decides to hit return. Frost said that poetry without meter was playing tennis without a net: Wilson reads like a Wimbledon champion.

Why does he pretend to have never heard of New Formalism, Anthony Hecht and the rest? What reasons are there to pretend Theodore Roethke didn't exist?

[Anonymous No.11319046]

>>11315240
This is the worst thing I've ever read

[Anonymous No.11319099]

>>11303621
kek

[Anonymous No.11319277]

>>11315240
>>11319046
>and where he went, and who he met

[Anonymous No.11319309]

>>11303957
>blow up any past translator's work.

Of course. Every translation should start from a clean slate. Otherwise, you're just liable to repeat the mistakes and personal mannerisms of the others, with more of your own mixed in, only further distorting the original text. And there would be no point to making a new translation in the first place.

[Anonymous No.11319634]

>>11303779
Fitzgerald and Lattimore
>simple but strong vocabulary, not even difficult to read or including strange diction, but a nevertheless epic register, very poetic syntax, genuine sense of a dramatic and an epic feeling

Wilson
>super straightforward, bland, and unpoetic, vocabulary deliberately dumbed down, no epic register or attempt at a poetic syntax or poetic usage of words, much less pleasing and rhythmic meter than Lattimore’s and Fitzgerald’s, sounds like Hemingway trying to write an epic except Hemingway would probably do it better

Note how the article in the OP is basically praising that this woman has taken one of the greatest pieces of literature of all time, an epic written in beautiful and ornate verse, and made it sound extremely informal and unpoetic, removing not only the beauty of the the language but the impact of its epic tone. Instead of awe and respect, a formal and poetic style matching the content, we get some bland neutered emotionless and extremely simple style, fitting the modern West’s lack of appreciation for the beautiful and sacred.

[Anonymous No.11319677]

>>11305352
That’s not true, /lit/ is very elitist and would hate any author trying to excessively simplify and de-aestheticize a great classic. The fact that a woman did it only brings out the misogynistic comments, it doesn’t detract from genuine criticism of A.) the translation’s genuine stiffness, blandness, and lifelessness and B.) its being praised to the heavens since it’s the first translation made by a woman and like omg u dont wanna be sexis to the first translation of the odyssey made by a woman do u???!!???

If anything, critics would have tore into this translation much more (and rightly so) if it was written by a white conservative male.

[Anonymous No.11319740]

>>11315240
>Tell about a complicated man, why does he wear the beard?

[Anonymous No.11319773]

>>11303779
OH NO NO NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.11319813]

>>11318911
Hahaha, that's actually a very funny compliment. All he said is "she uses a meter. Very good!"

That review is a perfect example of how to look like you're complimenting someone while not saying anything substantial.

[Anonymous No.11320118]

>>11304013
He was complicated.

[Anonymous No.11320122]

>>11316205
That really cracked me up as well. Why not just translate it as the small village of Troy while she's at it?

[Anonymous No.11320137]

>>11304893
>>11304910
She’s delusional.

[Anonymous No.11320144]

>>11305551
Emily please.

[Anonymous No.11320149]

>>11303801
Damn, that translation by Hobbes is nice, I'm going to have to read that

[Anonymous No.11320151]

>>11308587
>Uses the word Bourgeois
>hyde

[Anonymous No.11320161]

>>11307972
underrated

[Anonymous No.11320186]

>>11303475
What translation would you offer, "Redpill me on a based man"?

[Anonymous No.11320282]

>>11320186
upboated xD epic win