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/lit/ - Literature

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11292966 No.11292966 [Reply] [Original]

Of all of the shitpost threads on here, I wanna talk about Hemingway.

I read the first few chapters of The Sun Also Rises, and, how in the hell was I supposed to understand that he was castrated during the war?
I recall it mentioning
>what an awful way to be wounded
>he gave more than his life for his country
>what a rotten war

His language is shitty, just long simplistic sentences that don't really say anything half the time. Hemingway seems like a good story teller but a so-so writer.

>> No.11292975

it's metaphorical, shithead

>> No.11292982

>>11292975
Bullshit. He couldn't fuck that harlot. Are you saying he mentally couldn't bring himself to do it?
He mentions looking with grief at his reflection in the mirror. That "French style" of putting the dresser before the bed.

>> No.11292992

>>11292966
He talks about how when people talk about it as a general things, (people getting their dicks shot off) they laugh, but for the people that it actually happens to, it sucks ass.

Basically you find out at the beginning that he turns down a prostitute because something makes it so he can’t have sex, she thinks he contracted an std somewhere and I think he has internal thoughts about how “it happened in the war” then from the conversation between Brett and Jake you should have figured it out that it was some sort of wound that made it impossible for him to have sex.

>> No.11293018

>>11292992
Ahh. I see. I really just couldn't see it in there until I googled it.

But still his language just isn't artful. I remember Faulkner called him out on it as well, "Hemingway has never used a word that sent a reader to the dictionary"
>"Poor Faulkner, he thinks big emotions come from big words."
What a cop out. A writer should be eloquent and precise. Not just precise.

>> No.11293193

>>11293018
You’re wrong. The fact that you couldn’t pick up on very basic subtext in the novel really shows that you just aren’t ready for him. You can’t read The Sun Also Rises all the way through to the end and not say Hemingway had an eye for language and eloquence.

>> No.11293195

>>11293018
Pleb-tier opinions my friend

>> No.11293207

>>11293193
>>11293195
Are you sure you can't accept he's not just an insecure fag? It's a non-stop stream of, "MOM I'M NOT GAY. IM NOT GAY MOM"
An average Hemingway sentence goes
>I walked down stairs, and stepped outside and the birds were singing and I kept walking and then I stopped at a cafe and smoked a cigarette and then I finished the cigarette and kept walking again through the gay streets of paris and was disgusted but I was still walking putting one foot in front of the other

>> No.11293212

>>11293207
Finish the book at least, you imbecile. You’re making judgements on an author from the first 20-30 pages of a book. Also the ideas and opinions of the narrator/protagonist do not always mean the ideas and opinions of the writer.

>> No.11293243

Dude, I hate 90% of Hemingway, but The Sun Also Rises (and some of his short stories) are BRILLIANT.

No, he doesn't come out and tell you that his nads are useless. You supposed to figure that out on your own.

Maybe you just had a bad middle school English teacher who didn't explain "inference" to you...?

>> No.11293248

>>11292966
Skip to the fishing trip and you will understand that Hemingway, while he had is weaknesses and moments of self-parody (which unfortunately were many, especially towards the end) had genuine talent and could write beautifully.

>> No.11293264

>>11293248
Dude... the guy's already moaning over The Sun Also Rises. He won't get to "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" or "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber."

>> No.11293272

>>11293212
Don't bother, he's the kind of person who can't appreciate literature beyond shallow projections of his own self-loathing.

>> No.11293299

>>11293243
>>11293248
>I don't understand inference
Even in the OP I gave examples of what definitely could be an intimation to castration
>>11293264
>>11293272
>if he doesn't share my tastes he's a self-loathing brainlet
I think Hemingway must have been pretty self loathing when he blew his fucking brains out.

>> No.11293305

>>11293299
>how in the hell was I supposed to understand that he was castrated during the war?

This is what people are teasing you about. Don’t be so quick to judge writers who have stood the test of time my friend. Most all have something you can learn from them and enjoy. That’s why they have continued to be read.

>> No.11293307

>>11292966
Damn nigga you stupid. Hemingway is a master of rhetoric and you're a fucking idiot to not recognize that. He won the Nobel Prize because he reduced prose to saying everything in between the words (opposite of Shakespeare).

>> No.11293311

>>11293305
I did also say he was a good story teller. The story otherwise is good. I think what pissed them off was when I said he lacked beautiful language. He isn't eloquent. He -is- precise. I can read something he said and say, "Well put."
But I think he writes the way he does because it goes back to, "I gotta be man. Me not gay. Me man."

>> No.11293323

>>11293307
>opposite of Shakespeare
That's not a good thing.
Why in God's name would you want literature to be reduced to implications and understandings?
The Mona Lisa is beautiful because it has depth as well as elegance, it would not be beautiful it was a stick figure of a woman. Both are understood to be women, but one is art, and one is a cave drawing.

>> No.11293328

>>11293311
>Eloquent: fluent or persuasive in speaking or writing.

How is he not these things.

>> No.11293329

>>11293299
>I think Hemingway must have been pretty self loathing when he blew his fucking brains out.

I would say that heavy drinking when you have a concussion (from not one, but TWO plane crashes) is a good way to turn your brain into sludge and make suicide sound like a good idea.

>> No.11293335

>>11293323
It’s more like Renaissance vs Impressionist art than comparing it to a cave drawings or stick figures

>> No.11293350

>>11293328
Elegant then.
>>11293329
His father also committed suicide.
Orson Welles mentions how Hemingway tried to fight him in a theater once because he criticized him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyTi9v9QPxE

I think Hemingway felt like he had to show everyone he was a big man.

>> No.11293353

>>11293350
Hemingway was a bit of an ass and a showman but he also did real things, went to war, risked his life, was brave, had women, experiences, disappointments and success. He was a man, with weakness as any man has, but still one to admire.

>> No.11293354

>>11293350
>I think Hemingway felt like he had to show everyone he was a big man.

That's true... and I think it's because of Gertrude Stein.

>> No.11293362

>>11293353
I think it's funny how Hemingway never left one wife until he had the next firmly in place.

And, not to brag, but I've fucked over thirty women and girls, and NONE of them were as butt-ugly as any of Hemingway's wives.

>> No.11293366

>>11293353
>>11293354
I definitely understand what you're saying, and I can't say I hate him, but it gets annoying when he feels compelled to make a comment on masculinity every few pages. Its ArtOfManliness-tier.
(This is gonna start some more shit here)
Hemingway reminds me of Hunter S Thompson, they're both excellent story tellers and are great to read, but they're not artists. It's like the difference between folk music on some drums and a guitar, and a beautiful classical piece with full orchestra.
>>11293362
pffft

>> No.11293375

>>11293366
>pffft

No, it's true!

>> No.11293380

>>11293362
30 is a lot desu. How old are you. How did you get so many?

I’m in college and I’ve had 17 and I sometimes feel I’m nearing gigachad-tier.

>> No.11293382

>>11293323
As stated: damn nigga, you STUPID

>> No.11293396

>>11293375
I don't doubt you. Top stuff, m8
>>11293382
I am humbled by the sheer mightiness of your brain, your honor, and long to see allusions to this argument in your next NY Times best seller.

>> No.11293398

>>11293380
I'm 46, desune. Some years were lucky, some years weren't.