/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11281140]

Did he invent loli?

[Anonymous No.11281155]

>>11281140
no but he did invent nymphets

[Anonymous No.11281203]

Reminder that there are people here RIGHT NOW that think that it was romance.

[Anonymous No.11281228]

>>11281203
Only pedophiles and girls think that

[Anonymous No.11281300]

>>11281203
>>11281228
It was a romance, sorry normalfags. The only believable romance of the 20th century was between a man and a girl and there's nothing you can do about it

[Anonymous No.11281311]

>>11281300
thats the weakest bait ive ever seen. its like your trying to evoke a fat womans sass

[Anonymous No.11281315]

>>11281311
He's quoting some magazine read by fat women.

[Anonymous No.11281321]

>>11281140
mmhm

[Anonymous No.11281325]

>loli

[Anonymous No.11281346]

>lolita
>loli ta
>loli

[Anonymous No.11281365]

>>11281140
Etymologically, yes. "loli" is derived from "lolita-complex," named after the book.

[Anonymous No.11281394]

>>11281365
Sorry, I skipped a step, loli is short for lolicon and lolicon is short for lolita complex.

[Anonymous No.11281804]

>>11281228
>and girls
What are the broader implications here?

[Anonymous No.11281960]

>>11281804
Bitches be crazy

[Anonymous No.11282196]

>>11281804
I was speaking to a girl when she was reading this and she said it was affecting her thinking her thinking in weird ways, I asked what she meant and she didn't go further

After she finished it we were discussing it and she could not get it through her head that Humbert did a lot of things wrong. She was constantly defending him. Then she sort of brought up what she said previously and just ambiguously said "idk I just think I like different stuff", or something like that

Women are insane

[Anonymous No.11282222]

>>11282196
Not everyone wants to hop on "B-but he was the bad guy!" train

[Anonymous No.11282235]

>>11282222
He wasn't exactly the bad guy, but he was swallowed by his desire and did a lot of pretty stupid shit. What he probably implied by "women are insane", though, is that that girl wanted to be in Lolita's shoes, which is indeed insane.

[Anonymous No.11282623]

>>11282222
>>11282235

I'm pretty sure coercing an 12 yr old girl into a relationship with you, a grown man, makes you a bad guy. It's pretty silly that people are even going so far as to imply there's erudition in thinking otherwise by mocking those who don't. Give it up, there's nothing romantic about manipulating children and you're not smart for being a contrarian.

[Anonymous No.11282699]

>>11282623
yikes normgroid ba ck to leddit with you

[Anonymous No.11282707]

>>11282196
Humbert did nothing wrong you pathetic bugman

[Anonymous No.11282711]

>>11282623
>I'm pretty sure coercing an 12 yr old girl into a relationship with you, a grown man, makes you a bad guy

[Anonymous No.11282747]

>>11282235
No, he was entirely a bad guy. The whole book is written in a first-person narrative form, thereby opening up the possibility for an unreliable narrator which Humbert no doubt was, seeing how Dolores acted towards him in part 2. Whereas Humbert describes having sex with her romantically, consensually and whatnot, Dolores talks about "the night you raped me".

[Anonymous No.11282771]

>>11282747
>thereby opening up the possibility for an unreliable narrator

Imagine still unironically using this argument

[Anonymous No.11282787]

>>11282771
Care you expand on that?

[Anonymous No.11282803]

>>11282787
Its a petty argument that can be applied to any work but is vastly disproportionately applied to Lolita because some people find it too difficult to accept that 12 year old girls are infact sexual creatures who do on a regular basis fall in love with grown men. I know firsthand from teaching

[Anonymous No.11282820]

>>11282803
What I mean to say is that it can be applied to Lolita. It might be a saturated standpoint in regards to this work, I'm not aware of the various views taken in regards to Lolita, but reached the viewpoint by just reading the book.

Besides, surely you cannot say that the unreliable narrator argument can be applied to any book? There are certain signs that what Humbert is subjectively judging a situation/action as being, differs from what Dolores thinks about it (which is why I mentioned the romantic sex/you raped me)

[Anonymous No.11282842]

>>11282820
>surely you cannot say that the unreliable narrator argument can be applied to any book?

I certainly can. Who is to say that even a 3rd person narrator is reliable?
In the end we always have a choice in how we construct the narrative to ourselves and my biggest problem with the unreliability of Humbert is that it is so often out of contrivance taken as a matter of fact rather than a serious open question.

[Anonymous No.11282995]

>>11282842
Well, it is much harder (and less often done) for one. If there are indicators of a narrator being unreliable in that narrative form, it can always be discussed.
I do understand the trouble you have with people seeing the unreliable narrator acting as a sort of cushion for what is happening in the book; it cannot be that a girl would play an old man sexually and (knowingly) abuse her sexual power as a girl.

Do you take Dolores' remark about the first night they had sex as merely her wanting to poke fun at Humbert?

[Anonymous No.11283024]

>>11282995
>Do you take Dolores' remark about the first night they had sex as merely her wanting to poke fun at Humbert?

I take it as more of a nuanced statement of the distance between men and women in general. Its no mistake that so much of the problem in sexual discourse today is based around the very idea of what is rape.

[Anonymous No.11283026]

>>11281140
He described the stage when some teenage girls develop very attractive curves and look like miniatures of beautiful grown-up women. The idea that their personality also changes and they become vixens who lure and toy with men is, quite evidently, Humbert's and real child fuckers' own delusion.

[Anonymous No.11283069]

>>11281203

>hurr durr Humbert is unreliable narrator and he is evil, anon, therefore he cannot love anyone, because evil people cannot in any case fall in love ever
>also I am a good person because I think pedophilia is wrong

[Anonymous No.11283083]

>>11282235
>>11282623
>>11282222

He was indeed a bad guy, but he was also madly, genuinely in love with her, which is what makes the book a masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.11283093]

>>11283083
I'm genuinely in love with every piece of ass on the street, then.

[Anonymous No.11283099]

>>11282623
You got that backwards. Lolita instigated it.

[Anonymous No.11283102]

>>11283099
This but completely 100% unironically

[Anonymous No.11283168]

>>11283083

>Somewhere beyond Bill’s shack an afterwork radio had begun singing of folly and fate, and there she was with her ruined looks and her adult, rope-veined narrow hands and her goose-flesh white arms, and her shallow ears, and her unkempt armpits, there she was (my Lolita!), hopelessly worn at seventeen… and I looked and looked at her and knew as clearly as I know I am to die, that I loved her more than anything I had ever seen or imagined on earth, or hoped for anywhere else. She was only the faint violet whiff and dead leaf echo of the nymphet I had rolled myself upon with such cries in the past; an echo on the brink of a russet ravine, with a far wood under a white sky, and brown leaves choking the brook and one last cricket in the crisp weeds… but thank God it was not that I worshipped. What I used to pamper among the tangled vines of my heart, mon grand peche radieux, had dwindled to its essence: sterile and selfish vice, all that I canceled and cursed. You may beer at me, and threaten to clear the court but until I am gagged and half-throttled, I will shout my poor truth. I insist the the world know how much I loved my Lolita, this lolita, pale and polluted and big with another’s child, but still gray-eyed, still sooty-lashed, still auburn and almond, still Carmencita, still mine… No matter, even if those eyes of hers would fade to myopic fish, and her nipples swell and crack, and her lovely young velvety delicate delta be tainted and torn - even then I would go mad with tenderness at the mere sight of your dear wan face, at the mere sound of your raucous young voice, my Lolita.

That's the kind of thing you usually think or write to every piece of ass on the street, I imagine

[Anonymous No.11283212]

>>ITT people confusing obsession and sexual attraction to love
One of the best things about this book is learning about that difference.

[Anonymous No.11283216]

>>11283212
>sexual attraction and love are two different things

[Anonymous No.11283227]

>>11283216
Well shit, I guess Mia Khalifa is the love of my life then

[Anonymous No.11283234]

>>11283168
That's a nice description of his love for his own feelings.

[Anonymous No.11283259]

>>11283234
>his love for his own feelings.

[Anonymous No.11283317]

>>11283259
> I'll pretend to be retarded on an imageboard!
> 2018

[Anonymous No.11283322]

>>11283317
>pretending

[Anonymous No.11283458]

>>11282196
why every girl has daddy issues? why?

[Anonymous No.11283468]

>>11283458
Because they're waiting for their daddy solution