cyberpunk and philosophy

[Anonymous No.11262617]

>Cyberpunk is not becoming marketable because it offers a solution for society. The message is clear that, in face of inexorable rot, the individual loses his sanity or loses his soul. What the genre does offer is a third choice: to view breakneck dehumanization as a roller coaster ride. There is grim exhilaration in accepting that the awesome decline cannot be stopped. A future that was once dark and hopeless is now dark and beautiful when one dives headlong into it. Ugliness becomes thrilling and alienation becomes adventure. The homogeneous, numbing light of Brave New World’s dystopia is replaced by the dreamy atmosphere of neon-lit alleyways. Sisyphus can’t change his fate, but he can refuse to nod and clap, blank-eyed, at the world’s loss of meaning.

source:
https://jacobitemag.com/2018/06/02/a-separate-grim-future/

i don't know why the earlier thread was deleted, it seemed that there was some interesting discussion percolating. and this post was really fucking good:

>Desire is a bad term to use, and is a passe leftover archaism of 68 Foucault and Deleuzianism. Capital is first law of thermodynamics, heat. Inserting desire into the circuit is misleading, it implies human agency. D&G rebellion against Freud is utterly pointless in this context, people have desires, they have symptoms they hate they love, but they do not know why they do these things because an unknowable force moves them to do so (libido). The movement of capital isn't propelled by desire, desire at least presupposes a fulfilment , it is an expenditure, a waste of heat. On the other hand romanticising this process is just as bad as denying it. Cyberpunk falls into the first category because it is literally an impossible fictional vision of the future where cyborgs desire and expend themselves as political agents . But the real world analogy just doesn't fucking add up, it's not a matter how painful or realistic such a dehumanising vision is, its that capitalism the more entrenched becomes the more banal and baroque it gets. There are no mega-corporations and cyborgs but Trump and shitty social media memes. This was Mark Fishers answer to Land, that Land was too coked up to see. No fucking wonder he became an alt-righter, everything is so fucking boring.

i'm okay with changing the terminology. maybe Desire isn't the way (and it makes sense). capital in a cyberpositive loop isn't necessarily desire. and so like the spice the greentext must also flow

[Anonymous No.11262679]

>>11262617

I refuse to accept a cyberpunk future without dragons. Elon Musk building a cyborg dragon doesn't count.

[Anonymous No.11262697]

>>11262617
these are old takes, bruce sterling, gibson, having been saying this since the early 2000s

[Anonymous No.11262699]

>>11262679
i think we're already in the uncanny valley here anon. lofwyr is apparently trump's vision of himself with deleuze's fingernails. and in which the most recognizable intellectual in the west cannot stop talking about dragon-slaying. we're talking about a very small suspension of disbelief here.

>ywn run the shadows for elon musk
>feels bad man

tell me more about the dragons you want in your cyberpunk future tho. what are they doing? what do they think about china? explore the space.

[Anonymous No.11262708]

>>11262679
>a cyborg dragon doesn't count.
>it applies to an organism that has restored function or enhanced abilities due to the integration of some artificial component or technology that relies on some sort of feedback.
How hard would it be to slap some jet wings on a whale that we also strap a blowtorch on to, so that way it'd be like a real dragon. What do you think?

[Anonymous No.11262715]

>>11262697
true (and gibson apparently has a new book on the way also). personally i don't think anybody ever said it better than Nick For Speed, but even he would defer to gibson for saying a lot of it before he did. bruce sterling should get his props too i guess.

so old takes they may be, but i think it's partly because people haven't fully digested them. we're fighting wars over a lost vision of the 60s or 90s that isn't coming back, and our inability to deal with this is part of the issue, imho.

[Anonymous No.11262717]

>>11262617
>desire don’t real
lol

[Anonymous No.11262718]

>>11262699

Trump doesn't have a small fraction of the dignity of a Lofwyr. Remember, Lofwyr is not just the ultimate capitalist, he's also Loremaster for a significant fraction of Shadowrun canon and as such, the head patriarch of the oldest, most prestigious culture in the world.

And I dunno what kind of dragons, I just keep hoping we live in a shadowrun alt-canon that got set for 2025 with the end of the Kali Yuga instead of 2012 with the end of the Mayan long count.

I just hate being street level ;_; I want magick to come back in full so I can wagemage.

[Anonymous No.11262737]

>>11262715
>but i think it's partly because people haven't fully digested them

no one cares except retarded twitter reactionaries

>we're fighting wars over a lost vision of the 60s or 90s that isn't coming back, and our inability to deal with this is part of the issue, imho.
>we're fighting wars

what fucking wars?!?! get off the internet, look around, no one cares except people who spend way too much time on the internet, everyone else is busy working

[Anonymous No.11262765]

>>11262737
>I don't know anybody who cares about things so nobody cares about things
Seems more like a reflection of the people you choose to be around more than anything else.

[Anonymous No.11262778]

>>11262737
>durrr im a wage slave retard durrrr don’t know things hurrrrr please i have to make rent and impress my fiance durrr nothing is habbening eber fuck offf incel durrrrr hurrr reactionary durrr everything is fine fuck offf i hav to do this report hurrrr please raise boss pig hurrr
lol

[Anonymous No.11262795]

>>11262778
take it from an insider 100% of the major frogtwitter and the jacobite crowd works in an office lmao

[Anonymous No.11262796]

>>11262717
well, go on, share your thoughts. fwiw here's what that earliest post generated as a response:

>ive been struggling to articulate something like this. how capitalism is an effect of cosmic processes, how thought's recursion as an atomizing force relates to the expansion of the universe, the way that all galaxies and stars are eventually going to be spatially isolated is kind of what the emergence of the modern subject simulates in the mode adequate to mind... it's a tenuous connection but what i'm trying to articulate is how rationality is part and parcel of this urge to emerge and differentiate oneself out of the primordial goop ... that is itself only a mechanism by which the return (heat death) is accelerated... out of the One, back to the One

>maybe at the nadir of this circuit, the One is most the howling indeterminate void of materialism, but at its beginning and at its return, it is the eternal generative stillness of the Tao? what is capital's role in this? a hurdle we're slowly jumping?

maybe desire really don't real. so talk about it already, jeez

>>11262718
nice work with the fandom. i think the sooner we start accepting that maybe what we are seeing is that mysterious great event or whatever that begins tearing the UCAS into its various component parts. better than getting perpetually triggered, perhaps. now you've got me wanting to go and dig out some old shadowrun sourcebooks.

>>11262737
>no one cares except retarded twitter reactionaries
well, sure. but that's also what i'm getting at, un-tarding from retarded twitter reaction. hence the love for confucius, mysticism, &c.

>what fucking wars?!?! get off the internet, look around, no one cares except people who spend way too much time on the internet, everyone else is busy working
well, that's one way of looking at it. but you can't deny that we live in an insanely politicized age, yes? well, what drives this? economics, technology, intellectual culture. it's all part of the same thing. and imho it's going to continue. i'd rather shitpost about it on /lit/ than get trigged about it in real life. real life is not the place for philosophy, and increasingly universities don't seem to be either, unless you want to get mixed up in some griefmongering bullshit that looks like WW1.

[Anonymous No.11262810]

>>11262796
>can't deny that we live in an insanely politicized age, yes?

I do deny this

it's all spectacle on the internet, there is no real conflict, the only role politics has had in my life is providing fuel for my clickbait clients, the majority of America only thinks about politics near the election season, or when clickbait appears on the internet

[Anonymous No.11262816]

>>11262796

What tore the UCAS apart in shadowrun was natives breaking out of camps, using magick to wage war against the US and reclaiming their land. Here we're putting Mexicans into camps, so the map is gonna look a bit different. All the major secession movements will probably take off after whoever follows Trump makes things a million times worse. Waiting for the decision that grants corporations extraterritoriality though. There was also no nuclear reactor meltdown and VITAS should be starting to show up but doesn't appear to, which is all rather disappointing.

[Anonymous No.11262819]

>>11262795
they must live in constant fear of being outed

[Anonymous No.11262827]

>>11262617
I, too, love baseless extrapolations off popular media

[Anonymous No.11262836]

>>11262816
>All the major secession movements will probably take off after whoever follows Trump makes things a million times worse.
>major secession movements
>major
>secession

>>11262819
dude no one gives a fuck about NRx e-peens

the worst thing that has happened, and it happened only to the biggest baddest sith edge lord of them all Moldbug, is that there was a minor scandal with LambdaConf hosting him, that's it

[Anonymous No.11262901]

>>11262810

>there is no real conflict

There is more of an international conflict than any national ones. The big battles are over the centers of power of capital and how capital flows. But even then, these kinds of battles have, in the most recent decades past, held the most value for the developing states that regularly get shuffled around and crushed in interventionist wars. For the centers of capital it is marginal, maintaining their post. For countries like Iraq, Iran, Brazil, Venezuela, South Korea etc. it's been about trying to rise into the upper caste of powers, whether through integration or through separation as something against the form of capital that currently exists.

[Anonymous No.11262918]

>>11262778
based


here's my question, probably the most fundamental one of them all itt: was modernity a proper outgrowing of the general spiritualism of the past, or was it a lobotomization?

[Anonymous No.11262921]

>>11262836
yeah but Moldbug has money doesnt he? these guys would be fired from their jobs

[Anonymous No.11262933]

>>11262617
Before the cyberpunks, we had cyberhippies. our banal cyberworld is itself a product of communalist hippies taking way too much acid and McLuhan and thinking surplus military industrial complex tech would help them transcend their physical bodies and become one with the universe. There's this book called from counterculture to cyberculture by Fred Turner. You can easily get lost in the 60s acid memesphere, Deleuze and Guattari start looking less like Landian terminators and more like flower children, you have Stafford Beer (AKA Wizard Prang) London's top management consultant/ bearded tantric mystic building organic pondlife computers to manage Chile's economy for Salvador Allende. The 60s are intimately linked to the psychic and technlogical aftermath of WWII, the cybernetic idea was birthed out of think tanks and coexisted with the spectre of nuclear annihilation. Friedrich Von Hayek revived 19th century laissez faire economics by repackaging them in the futuristic language of cybernetic catallaxy, the market as a massive self organising information system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ySqBzUTZNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iq9naIa6UA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY68HJurxZQ

I like to think (and
the sooner the better!)
of a cybernetic meadow
where mammals and computers
live together in mutually
programming harmony
like pure water
touching clear sky.

I like to think
(right now, please!)
of a cybernetic forest
filled with pines and electronics
where deer stroll peacefully
past computers
as if they were flowers
with spinning blossoms.

I like to think
(it has to be!)
of a cybernetic ecology
where we are free of our labors
and joined back to nature,
returned to our mammal
brothers and sisters,
and all watched over
by machines of loving grace.

[Anonymous No.11263000]

>>11262836
Moldbug is actually pretty close to Peter Thiel, Palantir, Musk and co. you realise who's been funding Milo, Trump, muh intellectual dark web( bret weinstein is a managing director at Thiel Capital)? Rene Girard's mimetic desire theory supplies the underling logic, it's all about controlling violence and mimesis through scapegoats. Trump is himself a scapegoat and a prolific creator of scapegoats. the sjw scapegoat is used to build up support for the market economy. Palantir and Google can expand the surveillance apparatus for the military industrial complex while the bipartisan establishment looks on with approval and the people are distracted by phony culture wars.

https://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2016/08/13/mimesis-violence-and-facebook-peter-thiels-french-connection-full-essay/

[Anonymous No.11263018]

godammit I knew this was a girardfag thread

you know random ramblings aren't nearly as fun for other people when they aren't as stoned as you are

[Anonymous No.11263029]

This is a false problem. Not because it's not happening, but because of the obviously false notion that this is a GLOBAL issue. It's exclusively a Western issue affecting a total population less than that of India, and a race that makes up ~11% of the world population. Our capitalist nightmare is restricted to our society.

The reason it's framed as a problem with humanity is twofold: 1) we assume the West is and always will be the most important and 2) it allows us to mentally distance ourselves from the unthinkable notion of impending collapse and our being made obsolete.

The 'world' is not going to fall. The West will fall and be replaced with a new society with new people who look and speak differently.

[Anonymous No.11263088]

>>11262933
to break out of the eternal present, press the rewind button. things have never been 'normal' science fiction was the human attempt to cope with the intractable weirdness of the 20th century, the relentless advance of machineworld. the past exists in a cybernetic relation with the present, fiction in a cybernetic relationship with reality. The Lego Movie and Back to the Future 'predicted' Donald Trump's presidency, all 3 objects are organic products of capitalism. seriously, everyone needs to watch the LEGO movie, it's the latest in capitalist propaganda, its metafictional narrative structure makes Borges look like a kid's movie/2 hour long toy infomercial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlJkgQZb0VU
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-atomic-cafe/

[Anonymous No.11263750]

>>11262933
this is the deal. why call this late capitalism? things are just getting started.

>>11262918
non-spirituality was always a meme. any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. and what was ever the correct use of sorcery?

what land realized is that critique is only a dimension of teleoplexy. the lobotomization is more like a hyperstitial signal received.

>>11263000
eric, not bret.

>>11263018
can you believe i make these posts sober? it's true. but i'm happy to contribute to stoner philosophy all the same. being a busted-up rag-and-bone shop antiquarian in cyberia is a look i'm completely fine with.

>>11263029
this. twhile everybody was sinking into the torpor of 90s and 2000s enervation and decadence, the robots were quietly warming up. consumer capitalism blasts off in the 1960s and gets cybernetic with the internet.

>>11263088
>the past exists in a cybernetic relation with the present, fiction in a cybernetic relationship with reality.
the craziest example of this i can think of is GRRM, who has gotten to see his show adapted back to front, and can now wait out the end of the series to then write his own book at the end of the adaptation. he's also proven that endings are apparently unnecessary. if a work is successful enough an ending isn't even required. culture takes care of itself like that.

i'll share an enigmatic thought:

>The Book of Change says: “Sages create the ability. People are able by themselves to create pure habituated tendencies in order to reveal and develop their nature—this is “creating the ability.”

>All of this is to employ wisdom as master. Wisdom itself is originally pure and not subject to afflictions. Whether distinguishing afflictions or severing afflictions—in all cases it is wisdom. The generation of pure habitual tendencies lies in the uninterrupted flow of the illumination of this Fundamental Reality. Draw from it and it does not become exhausted; use it and it issues forth even more. Endow oneself with the powers of enlightenment and strength, and sever the restraint of that soft thread. The Doctrine of the Mean says: “Although ignorant, you are sure to become enlightened; although weak, you are sure to become strong.”

>“Tied to a metal brake-drag, a soft thread restrains.” “Soft thread” refers to being defiled by afflictions because all defiled phenomena have softness and darkness as their characteristics. The virtue of yang is firmness and brightness; naturally it is incompatible with softness and darkness. For this reason the wise are not afflicted. Just as the bright sun in the sky completely dissipates the haze, it can be understood that defilement by afflictions can certainly be severed and that one’s self-nature can certainly be completed. These are true words that accord with reality; they are the ultimate aim of learning. Thus it is said: “If you want to fully understand your inherent mind, then you must value learning.”

[Anonymous No.11263783]

>>11263000
saaaay wait a minute, how was elon balding af back in like 1999 but now he's got a full head of hair? do that mother fucker be wearing a damn wig?! its like dave grohl all over again

[Anonymous No.11263791]

>>11263750
post more phone wallpapers, I need to fully immersed myself if i want to LARP as a cyberpunker

[Anonymous No.11263818]

>>11263791
now you've got the complete set

[Anonymous No.11263823]

>>11263088
that documentary is rad if as nothing more than a nostalgia trip and brief review of early 90s events

[Anonymous No.11263828]

>>11262617
>in face of inexorable rot
What the fucking fuck? Society looks better than ever and is constantly getting better. Teenage pessimists are so boring. Almost as boring as cyberpunk, because like fantasy it can't escape the same old archetypes to tell the same old stories. Almost like all genres built on imagination attract hacks with the least of it.

[Anonymous No.11263833]

>>11263818
damn these are kinda boring

[Anonymous No.11263861]

>>11262737
First desire, now the internet, what else doesn't real?

[Anonymous No.11263871]

>>11263088
>my brothers in the drug business
>says there's a new drug coming from israel
>better than halcion

wew

[Anonymous No.11263876]

>>11263828
Looks can be deceiving.

>>11263750
what is it about the chinese that makes their thought appear so under-cooked and yet so ineffably transcendent at the same time? im reminded of that paradoxical coincidence of high and low, the way sages look like fools to the undiscerning, or how a child's bullshit detector hasn't been poisoned by adult compromises yet. i think it's the way the beginning doubles as the end, sage wisdom masquerading as childlike naivety (or is it the other way around?).

there is something perennially refreshing about eastern metaphysics. i dont think even the most grimdark of grimdark systems (and ive read michelstaedter) can ever touch that zen purity and equaniminity.

[Anonymous No.11263888]

>>11263828
>Society looks better than ever and is constantly getting better.
>Look! I can have a plastic Chinese phone to take pictures of myself while I'm being kept alive on feeding tubes at 90! God bless progress!

[Anonymous No.11263914]

>>11263833
try these instead. i don't have mine sorted by iPhone size, so you might have to hunt around. but these two are both pretty class.

http://rekall.me/
http://helaeon.tumblr.com/

>>11263828
>What the fucking fuck? Society looks better than ever and is constantly getting better.

in some sense you're right. i think one of the reasons why i'm attracted to cyberpunk tho is that it feels to me like the right way to do pessimism, if you're in a mood to feel pessimistic. it links up with a pretty august continental tradition (which is good, you know, for explaining to family members why you're not doing anything with your life) but ultimately connects to some other things that i feel can spit you back out into reality with kind of a better understanding of why things are the way they are. in the end it is better to be optimistic and not pessimistic, however warranted the pessimism is. with land i found a guy who was vastly more pessimistic about things than i thought was even possible, and so i kind of go to acceleration as a way of thinking about why it actually is good to be a semifunctional member of society and not a permanently disillusioned ball of anxiety and guilt.
>which, of course, i am

so it is to be hoped that society is getting better. some signs point to yes, others not so much. if, however, you are in a mood to dwell on the darkness, the view from cyberia cannot imho be beaten.

>Almost as boring as cyberpunk, because like fantasy it can't escape the same old archetypes to tell the same old stories
this seems uncharitable tho. the same old archetypes? artificial intelligence explosion is same old same old? nick land may be entering meme territory, but he's a long way from becoming JRR tolkien.

i mean tastes vary and if you're not into it that's fine, but i mean circuitries was written almost thirty years ago and it's still fascinating af to read.

>>11263876
i don't know mi amigo but they get me every time. it's the *light touch.* or maybe because it really does come out of a whole different system than we do. part of it i'm sure is that some of it may really be lightweight, but just seems profound because i stare at it like a slack-jawed yokel...but other times i get these little shivers. i think everything's better with cross-pollination like that. when frederic jameson's book on postmodernity came out it was like an overnight sensation over there, they couldn't get enough of it. he's one of the most famous intellectuals ever and yet outside of academic circles here not a lot of people really know who he was.

to hear him talk about it, they still kind of misinterpreted what he was saying...and that's absolutely fine, of course. but the concept of postmodernity really got them excited and it's kind of the way i feel sometimes about the confucian/taoist stuff. so fucking simple, and yet, if it's so simple, why not do it?

because we get attached, that's why. we love us some jargon.

[Anonymous No.11263929]

>>11263888
Well, it's not all that really. I'd rather get raped by some lord or get burned for not believing into another, maybe work in a factory all day to save up for a time machine to experience cold war paranoia and more braindead manual labour. Sounds almost better than a plastic Chinese phone that can take high resolution images of my penis and send it to 3 billion people around the globe.

[Anonymous No.11263939]

>>11263914
wow I just started browsing 4chan for the first time in years after leaving because it was shit

Is /lit/.... actually good now?

[Anonymous No.11263940]

>>11263888
You people really need to update your rhetoric, this is becoming as old as complaining about corporations

[Anonymous No.11263953]

>>11263929
>rape
>being murdered for religious reasons
>factory work
>manual labor
>paranoia
These are all things which exist today and in large quantities. It's nice that you were lucky enough to be born into a position where you aren't subject to them, but the same could be said of people in the past. You're just projecting your own good fortune onto the world at large.

[Anonymous No.11263954]

>>11263914
I didn't mean that cyberpunk explores the same stories as fantasy, more of, cyberpunk writers following a very, very similar path in their genre. Just like fantasy ones in theirs. Almost feels that even an ultimately more limited crime novels explore a bigger variety of ideas.

[Anonymous No.11263968]

>>11263953
And there are getting more and more rare while at the same time more people can benefit from the resources available, despite a small minority hoarding a huge chunk of it. If you would randomly spawn into the past, your chance to get affected by any issue happening today would be much higher.

[Anonymous No.11263992]

The only thing worse than "the world is getting better" shitposters are natalists

[Anonymous No.11264011]

>>11263940
To be fair, the complaint cant really hit home when you're debating the existence of such a being as a corporation, lifeblood of Economy, keeper holy books, producer of goods.

[Anonymous No.11264014]

>>11263876
i think another thing about the chinese is that it sometimes seems to me like precisely the kind of non-philosophy that laruelle and deleuze ask for (although i'm not well-read on laruelle, so don't ask me for a quote here). confucian theories of knowledge seem very heuristic, very practical, like ways of preparing yourself to do philosophy itself...and by the time you are prepared, you realize the thing is already done. that's the real fucking magic, feeling your problems and knots and so on getting kind of quietly untied. and apparently leibniz thought the chinese were pretty based too.

i've shilled this extract before, so apologies in advance, but if it's interesting to you i highly recommend giving this a read. it's only two chapters but they are jam-packed. the way without a crossroads is good times. give this a read if you're interested anon.

http://faculty.smcm.edu/jwschroeder/Asian_Religions_2015/textdownloads_files/Confucius%20chp1%262.pdf

>>11263939
/lit/ has always been good. this is just one anon's eccentric brand of shitposting. so don't give me a swelled head, i preferred to be called an overbearing faggot in capital letters. and there's a nice bit of copypasta around that will also do the trick

>>11263954
well, i'd agree with you there. cyberpunk doesn't really have a lot of recognizeable big-name authors. there's gibson, dick, and i guess the altered carbon guy. stephenson. land belongs in this category too as theory-fiction man.

crime novels are huge tho. look at borges, how he writes detective stories or other stories. and also that the line between cyberpunk and SF is pretty thin. james ellroy is a boss, i've read Underworld USA a bunch of times. crime is good too. i just have a weird fetish for capitalism i suppose.

i'm going to re-read mirrorshades i think and see how well that's held up. i'm not expecting much, but that's fine.

[Anonymous No.11264085]

>>11262816
>Waiting for the decision that grants corporations extraterritoriality though.

this cannot be far off. chalk up another one for Shadowrun ubermenschen peter thiel

https://www.worldbuild365.com/news/klpgmo46v/building-architecture/would-you-live-in-a-floating-city-the-seasteading-institute-hopes-so

tangential question anon, but what are your favorite shadowrun sourcebooks? i still find Corporate Shadowfiles fun af to read.

[Anonymous No.11264630]

>>11263876
>what is it about the chinese that makes their thought appear so under-cooked and yet so ineffably transcendent at the same time? im reminded of that paradoxical coincidence of high and low, the way sages look like fools to the undiscerning, or how a child's bullshit detector hasn't been poisoned by adult compromises yet. i think it's the way the beginning doubles as the end, sage wisdom masquerading as childlike naivety (or is it the other way around?).
Confucianism on the outside and Daoism on the inside.

[Anonymous No.11265537]

Bump

[Anonymous No.11265565]

>>11264014
>i think another thing about the chinese is that it sometimes seems to me like precisely the kind of non-philosophy that laruelle and deleuze ask for (although i'm not well-read on laruelle, so don't ask me for a quote here). confucian theories of knowledge seem very heuristic, very practical, like ways of preparing yourself to do philosophy itself...and by the time you are prepared, you realize the thing is already done. that's the real fucking magic, feeling your problems and knots and so on getting kind of quietly untied. and apparently leibniz thought the chinese were pretty based too.

this is some gay-ass "whoaaaa mannn what if it's all just discourse and it's the search for transcendental signifieds that's weighing us down maaaan? what if the chinamen were right all along???" derivative garbage, i really hope you don't take this shallow bullshit seriously in whatever your syncretic faggot philosophy ultimately is girardfag

embarrassing to be taken in by french ripoffs of germans, repeating themselves ad nauseam for three generations, being repeated slavishly by western continental not-philosophy philosophy departments.

[Anonymous No.11265576]

>>11262617
>hasn't come true.
Yet, cyberpunk is about half human cyborgs with cool robot arms FFS, we're still 30-50 years off. Meanwhile the social degredation predicted is happening in the meantime.

[Anonymous No.11265589]

>>11265565
I really don't understand this "the French stole from the Germans" meme, much of frog philosophy is self contained.

[Anonymous No.11265599]

>>11265589
Elssace-Lothringen

[Anonymous No.11265600]

>>11265599
lol

[Anonymous No.11265613]

>>11265589

[Anonymous No.11265655]

>>11262617
the genre sometimes hints at a fourth choice or shows only to corrupt it: transhumanism, the freeing of humanity.
I firmly believe in the technological, medical, financial, cultural and societal potential to near-abolish work, aging, dying, disease and the most egregious forms of compliance. I know in actuality none of this will come to pass.

[Anonymous No.11265660]

>>11265613
well yes but that's like claiming that they stole from Plato since Heidegger is basically Plato

[Anonymous No.11265665]

>>11265660
>Heidegger is basically Plato
never gonna make it

[Anonymous No.11265683]

>>11265589
no it isn't, paul ricoeur (french heideggerian) called freud nietzsche and marx the hermeneuts of suspicion, together with husserl and heidegger (and more indirectly others like wundt and dilthey) let alone kant and hegel and schelling these thinkers determine the entire fucking french philosophical discourse of the 20th century, usually directly and obviously: derrida was heideggerian, deleuze was a husserlian nietzschean and freudian, foucault was an embarrassing heidegger knockoff and nietzschean, etc., their whole social theory is a sad ripoff of german social theory (up to 1920s) and then post-marxist frankfurt critical theory

the french are horrible german knockoffs, they are basically taking german ideas that the germans are themselves bored of repeating and adding a bunch of petit bourgeois "look at me, i'm well read!" unnecessary flare without any rigor

the french are a completely unphilosophic and spiritually inert people who only know how to take other people's ideas and turn them into pissant half-understood showoff social engineering philosophies full of uncomprehending overstatements and dystopian implications, for a post-aristocratic stagnant bourgeois worldview that hasn't changed since the 18th century.

the french are basically poorly instrumentalizing german originality, always as johnny-come-latelies with a 50-100 year lag, all so that they can 1) masturbate themselves in front of other frenchmen and 2) convince you that 18th century bourgeois ideals of parisian bohemian cosmopolitanist foppishness are the end-state of humanity

the only good frenchmen are marxists, because they at least do german philosophy well enough to contribute to it and advance some of its ideals, but the french ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL, like a biological body rejecting foreign tissues, isolate their marxists and replace them with bourgeois neoliberal versions (like braudel or levi-strauss), because genuine marxists always annoy the french by saying "Maybe Parisian foppishness isn;'t the be-all-end-all of human existence???? These germans keep talking about upsetting the social order, wouldn't that require upsetting our Parisian 'LOOK AT ME I'M A WELL READ FOP, ALL ROADS LEAD TO PARIS, I'M A FOP LOOK AT ME' circlejerk and changing our social priorities????????" and the french can't have that, at least not since the 18th century when their civilization fucking DIED

[Anonymous No.11265713]

>>11262617
Directly changing the perception of a human is much easier than changing the environment to change the perception of a human.

Cyberpunk was brought on by the social and technological environment that birthed it but it has insights into the relationship between man and technology.

What I feel is the biggest problem with cyberpunk is the social degradation that is core, that "punk" which wouldn't exist. You can see the effects of hyper-socialization due to greater connection to technology.

[Anonymous No.11265717]

>>11265683
the cogito was a mistake

[Anonymous No.11265832]

>>11264014
Do you do Art Anon?

[Anonymous No.11265860]

>>11265683
>derrida was heideggerian
yes
>deleuze was a husserlian nietzschean and freudian
lol no he took a lot from Bergson and other frogs such as Klossowski and his master Hyppolite not to mention spinoza you obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about
>foucault was an embarrassing heidegger knockoff and nietzschean
wrong again foucault his much more indebted to althusser
lol @ implying that these are their only important thinkers
I haven't read your autistic tirade, take your pills

[Anonymous No.11265876]

>>11262617

Cyberpunk are detective novels dressed up in high fantasy masquerading in techno babble.

[Anonymous No.11265880]

>>11265860
why are you replying with your favorite wikipedia soundbites, especially when they are encompassed by the post you're replying to itself

did you just want to show that you know a few of the names deleuze wrote books about or what? you should have gone with canguilhem and bachelard, not althusser

[Anonymous No.11265902]

>>11265876
>Cyberpunk are detective novels dressed up in high fantasy masquerading in techno babble.
>Cyberpunk is
>dn, no
>hf, no
>tb, yes

what is that your first attempt at an opinion of something you know knowing about?

[Anonymous No.11265917]

>>11265880
>especially when they are encompassed by the post you're replying to itself
they aren't, unless by encompassed you mean influenced by Kant which is just fucking obvious since everybody after Kant is influenced by Kant and at this point you might just as well claim that it's all a rip-off from the greeks
>you should have gone with canguilhem and bachelard
why are you replying with your favorite wikipedia soundbites

[Anonymous No.11265943]

>>11265917
because unlike your examples i've actually read mine, and unlike your examples, canguilhem and bachelard don't obviously prove the point i'm making in the very post you're trying to contest

i basically feel like i'm punching a mentally handicapped kid right now

why don't you go look up what the major adjective describing althusser is

[Anonymous No.11266073]

>>11265589
Me either.
Even if you read the Greeks, f.e Demokritos, you will learn in the introduction page about his travels in Egypt, Persia etc.
There is no immaculent conception.
My opinion, right now, is that the only difference between a rip-off and something original is sincerety and personal synthesis. The parts with which you make something most times are not made by you.

Take any philosopher.
Now, excluding his references and sources, imagine all the people he debated with, his lackings and the things he got from his envinronment.
All these for him to "kanonize" in a sort of way.

One way or another, we are all in this together anon.

Αγάπη+Φιλιά!

[Anonymous No.11266124]

>>11266073
Just wanted to add:
And the things he wanted to make and give to his envinronment.

Philosophy and poetry etc trully is like soulSoftwareDevelopment.

Ta...

[Anonymous No.11266481]

>>11265683
Is Badiou a marxist ? Anyway, why the focus on Saint Germain des prés anon

[Anonymous No.11266557]

>>11265683
>deleuze was a husserlian nietzschean and freudian

Nietzschean sure, but Freudian or Husserlian is a bit of a stretch. D took a great deal of things from many authors, why mention Husserl and Freud in particular?

[Anonymous No.11266559]

>>11266481
badiou is more of a maoist

[Anonymous No.11266568]

>>11266559
Isn't this basically Zizek?

[Anonymous No.11266592]

>>11266568
They're literally best friends, at least according to Zizek. Never heard Badiou call him his best friend, but that doesn't invalidate it.

[Anonymous No.11266634]

>>11266568
badiou seems a lot more hard-core about his communism than zizek does tho. zizek is wedded to social democracy and stalinist in-jokes. i don't get that feel from badiou at all. they both like lacan, but i think badiou would absolutely be happy and willing to take an active part in the commune, reset the calendar and go full Year One on western civilization.

[Anonymous No.11266688]

>>11265902
He saw Bladerunner and thought it was the entirety of cyberpunk.

[Anonymous No.11266816]

>>11265832
i can't say that i do. i know artists and what they do is not what i do. this is not for lack of trying, but clearly i seem to be better at making life stupidly complicated for reasons i cannot really explain.

the plan was to Do Art once. but this was before i accidentally ran some philosophical mindware on myself and became so spooked by the whole process that now i kind of just try and master the art of walking in straight lines and trying to avoid all human contact as much as possible. my art is the art of Eggshell Walking and Raindrop Evasion. i used to think the point of Do Art was to become a famous and happy and celebrated Art-Maker. now i sometimes think that Do Art is like a malignant program-imperative that just craves reunion with simulation and that cashed-out alien process land writes about that manifests as cybernetics. maybe we make Art so as to grant the devil his due, to pay back an internal symbolic debt to the demiurge who actually runs the whole show. Art is what comes in between the only relationship between human beings which makes sense, which is as companions in suffering. this is what Spectacle hides and reveals. but it is also why we love it and crave it.

i'll probably change my mind on this in about forty-five minutes tho, so don't quote me.

[Anonymous No.11266857]

>>11266816
Well, I do.
Personally I did it to add consistency to my life and thoughts. Seldf healing I guess and unloading.
And last year I realized how awesome it feels to share.

Pic related.
Θόρυβος= Noise.

[Anonymous No.11266890]

>>11266857
Samefag
Since you are so knowledgeable,
is "Synners" worth a go?

[Anonymous No.11266940]

>>11266568
Žižek is an epigone of Badiou

[Anonymous No.11267145]

>>11266857
that picture is really quite fascinating anon, i'm glad you posted it. i think i can relate to this guy. and maybe the way that his eyes are, or the shape of his skull, or the shapes around him he sort of looks like a gargoyle, or whatever it was that paul klee thought the angel of history should look like as walter benjamin describes it. that essay is magnificent but i've always found the painting itself to be pretty goofy.

i'm with you on self-healing and unloading. You Must is sort of anathema to me. it's not because i'm wilfully contrarian, it's because most of the time it appears to be backed by nothing more than a total bewilderment. people tell each other You Must because they have no fucking idea what to do with themselves. Shit Rolls Downhill is another one. everything is like the wizard of oz - trapped in the dream of the other, be fucked, &c - until the rather boring and humble face of the wizard is revealed. at which point, you know, it was all just a joke, no hard feelings, etc. all of these things belong to the weird psychic gravity that binds the consumer society in place, this bizarre knot of mannerisms and forms upon which civilization depends and yet becomes only a sort of neo-victorian affection over time that it is difficult to explain.

it's why i relate to this man's expression. just kind of smile and nod forever. you're responsible for governing a billion and a half people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing, but the whole thing has to somehow look good for the cameras. inside of course he knows that what the world really deserves is Fire, but it would be unbecoming to let that happen on his watch. so he has to kind of do the best that he can. i know i'm reading into/projecting onto the psychology of one of the world's most unreadable men but i mean why not. sinofuturism is a monstrosity, like a shotgun wedding between the West and East that combines the worst of both worlds.

>synners
i don't know, haven't read it. heard good things about it though.

>>11265565
>i really hope you don't take this shallow bullshit seriously in whatever your syncretic faggot philosophy ultimately is girardfag
>in whatever your syncretic faggot philosophy ultimately is
>be me
>ask, what is my ultimate syncretic philosophy anyways?
>sperg out 12K words of delirium on a .doc file
>it is confirmed dementia

i'm still working on it is what i mean. but thanks for the prompt anon. i think you're sleeping on the chinese tho, and mainly because chinese virtue ethics ala master gong (or xunzi) is secretly a really good answer to the thing that both JBP and his detractors are finger-trapped in, which is political economy by way of the society of CTRL. if land is right (and you know i'm convinced that he is) breaking up CTRL and detaching ourselves from it without going Full Kaczynksi is my jam. i'm still attached to some notion of a sort of courtly and technologically advanced civilization that gets over the hump of idpol.

[Anonymous No.11267217]

>>11267145
From the "big" hypercountries, I was always fascinated not by China but by "Demystified" India.

Here, have another pic m8!

[Anonymous No.11267301]

>>11267217
i think i'm finally realizing why people like modern art.

what's "Demystified" India? this is the country that already gives you Kali as cultural-civilizational Game Over screen. personally i think the idea is to get some Art in there double-time to cover this over, but maybe that's just me being a prudish and boring neo-victorian leaf shitposter.

[Anonymous No.11267356]

>>11267301
I always viewed India as the hard-core of civilization.
Victorianism is one of it's niches that went high, thin and cold.

When in the mountain, jump again in the sea.

[Anonymous No.11267370]

>>11267301
Have a pic from Athens man.

[Anonymous No.11267378]

>>11267301
Why do you think people like modern art?
Modern or poat-modern?

[Anonymous No.11267405]

>>11263876
you don’t know anything about Zen, no one on this board has read more than a page of Zen or met a Zen master fucking die you pretentious nigger liberals

[Anonymous No.11267452]

>>11267405
I have.
Have a pic anon.

[Anonymous No.11267558]

>>11267356
india mos def kersplodes prudish victorian brains. if you want to deep-dive i'm pretty sure there's immense synchronicity between Kali and Dionysus. interesting how those mythologies tho don't seem to transfer to China. but maybe this is all stuff that happens to make the buddha and laozi who they are. and sun wukong is such a fine monkey. gotta love warlike monkey bodhisattvas.

>>11267370
well that's just lovely. thank you anon. based athens

>>11267378
maybe you just get tired of Spectacle after a while. art that sets itself up in advance to be deconstructed is the fruit of critical theory, i think, which had a field day dismantling popular culture for a few decades. shit is plenty dismantled now a and i think this is why the rage virus has appeared. we have hollowed out the mortar that holds the bricks together. and also because of what benjamin writes about: the disappearance of aura. we're so fucking spoiled, aesthetically.

so i mean i don't really know. tastes vary for everyone. there's no way of meaningfully generalizing an answer to this question except to say that we know trash when we see it. but if you look at films like the recent star wars, or ghostbusters, or so on we can all feel the creep of politics into our ideology and spectacle, and it sucks. why do we like vidya? a lot of vidya is curiously resistant to this stuff, though not perfectly. Diablo is relatively un-ideological, and the art direction in that game is gorgeous. kojima's politics are completely confused but because he's an absolute savant we don't really mind. quietly i think the final fantasy games have been asking questions about tech and simulation for a decade that, because they are games and not presented to us as Meaningful Art we kind of absorb without thinking about it...which may even be the idea. museum culture and curation, all the rest has enormously complicated our relationship to art.

and of course there's a living shitpost in the white house now. not that i'm blaming Trump for anything, just that post-postmodernity never had a clearer exposition than MAGA hats.

we're absolutely swamped with art. look at any of your favorite alt-right tumblr blogs or whatever, they're full of girls, food porn, gun porn and fashion. aesthetics are what win political campaigns, but everything is postmodern now and perhaps more or less permanently.

[Anonymous No.11267608]

>>11267558
I never liked Viktoria.
I always think of Elisavet when thinking of a UK queen.
There is something very Totalitarian in naming almost everything in England "Victoria".

[Anonymous No.11267632]

>>11267608
We are not amused!

[Anonymous No.11267648]

>>11267632
Whatever, little posh girl.

[Anonymous No.11267726]

>>11267632
>>11267648

convince me that this was not the high point of men's fashion.

[Anonymous No.11267775]

>>11263914
Just skipping through and
>>11263939 sums it up.
>On my way to get a job in IT @ 28 while being semi-NEET and uni-dropout with massive dept.
You cheered me up, it's so simple.

[Anonymous No.11267794]

so apparently Christmas came early this year.

anybody feeling a fucking three-part essay by Uncle Nick on cryptocurrency and china?

http://wdwreview.org/desks/china-crypto-currency-and-the-world-order/

http://wdwreview.org/desks/china-crypto-currency-and-the-world-order-part-2/

http://wdwreview.org/desks/china-crypto-currency-and-the-world-order-part-3/

[Anonymous No.11267809]

>>11267794
>May 2014

[Anonymous No.11267838]

>>11267809
quite early indeed

[Anonymous No.11267840]

>>11267726

[Anonymous No.11267867]

>>11267838
Yeah, he was ahead of the curve. I've just printed all three parts of the article to read this evening. Nick is fucking formidable at his best.

[Anonymous No.11268008]

>>11267558
I agree with the spectacle.
Have you played Dreamfall?
I really like this wave persay.

But yeah, sometimes I feel I was ahead of my time when I enjoyed poetic realism documentaries.
Sincere Reality makes the reaktionary post modern brain confused.

[Anonymous No.11268049]

>>11268008
>I agree with the spectacle.

[Anonymous No.11268073]

>>11268049
Nahh, I meant I agree with you on your take with the spectacle.
Though don't give me Star wars meme's, please.
I always thought it is far too Manihaistic.

Nowdays it is Jedi+Sith vs Jedi+Sith

[Anonymous No.11268092]

>>11268073
Funny thing is, that even the violence in today's very violent action films and vidya is very detached.

[Anonymous No.11268104]

>>11268049
And I trully appreciated Wiedzmin (The Witcher).

[Anonymous No.11268124]

>>11267558
Btw, all this is shocking to many people due to the merge of extremists from Communism and Capitalism, but balance is found on the lowest levels.

Instead of making a more solid base, it feels like absolute Idealism and absolute Cynicism merged in a black and white beast.
Whatever, in the end of ends, what remains is the True Truth.

[Anonymous No.11268191]

>>11267558
>india mos def kersplodes prudish victorian brains.

No one wants you to crush.
But you will have to land at some point and realize that warmth in moderation is good, hahahahaha!

[Anonymous No.11268193]

>>11267558
Any books for this feel (your interesting rant about art nowadays)?

[Anonymous No.11268199]

>>11268008
>when I enjoyed poetic realism documentaries
Like what for example? Any recs?

[Anonymous No.11268228]

Cyberpunk needs to be capitalistically viable and it's requisite technologies implementable first obviously. And who says ot ever will?
Fanciful tard needs to get out of his fiction books.

[Anonymous No.11268244]

>>11268199
Ramdomly come in my mind:
1.Thalassa (a French series)
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCvGiiF7ZvZAPPog9uwqlqtQ
2.Agelastos petra
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0268898/

3. Some good quality unpretencious VICE documentaries

[Anonymous No.11268251]

>>11268193
Beautiful Fighting Girl by Saitō
Otaku by Azuma, which is a response to BFG

[Anonymous No.11268324]

>>11268244
Thalassa just had it's moments,
But you will definetly enjoy the Mourning rock, if you find EngSubs.

[Anonymous No.11268943]

>>11267840
pretty well dressed also i admit.

>>11268008
never go full Sincerity. fanged noumena shows what this looks like. there is no need for this.

>>11268124
>all this is shocking to many people due to the merge of extremists from Communism and Capitalism, but balance is found on the lowest levels
very true

>Instead of making a more solid base, it feels like absolute Idealism and absolute Cynicism merged in a black and white beast.
yep. an enormously repressed beast also. as that other anon says, a Jedi-Sith alliance would be pretty monstrous. we should not cross the streams like this, but capitalism crosses all streams.

>>11268191
>But you will have to land at some point and realize that warmth in moderation is good
well, that's true. and it is. i still believe this too, in some sense. there will be no point where i will turn away from heidegger, for example. everyone in that sense is dasein, and dasein is always vexed by ontology. i have sympathy for anyone having a legit existential crisis, i think. it's spectacle and theatre that i find so odious.

>>11268193
>art books
for art stuff thou shalt have no other gods before jean baudrillard. and for that go here and work your way through the list, you'll have a blast.

http://insomnia.ac/essays/

and now, a clarifying word from master xiong:

>That which is subtle and difficult to see is the mind; that which is fierce and controls power is afflictions. If the mind has no ruler, then afflictions control it, usurping its place, and the mind becomes dispersed. It is just like when robbers invade, the ruler is driven away. The [Book of] Rites says: “Where there is no dignity or respect, then violent and disrespectful minds will necessarily enter; where there is disharmony and unhappiness, then boorish and treacherous minds will be sure to enter.” Where there is respectfulness, then naturally there will be empty stillness; where there is reverent composure, naturally there will be harmony and happiness; and so where there is disharmony and unhappiness, there will be disrespectfulness. Thus, one must be firm and unambiguous, solemn and composed, drawing [the mind] together to restrain it. The hexagram name Great Restraint (大畜) is taken from the word “restrain” (畜). To restrain means to preserve and is the opposite of dispersed. If the human mind is not restrained, it will wander aimlessly. All empty clambering is aimless wandering.

i cannot hate on the confucians. they are just too cozy.

[Anonymous No.11269585]

Bump

[Anonymous No.11269605]

>>11262617
>Jacobitemag, the "post-political magazine."
Hard pass on this dumb shit. What a terrible article.

[Anonymous No.11270515]

>>11268943
wait why does icycalm have all those essays on his site?

[Anonymous No.11270581]

>>11267405
I have too.

[Anonymous No.11270723]

>>11268943
>fanged noumena shows what this looks like.

I have not read it, but did it not at leat provide a controlled shock?
Full sincerity is often confused with disrespectfullness.
If you already know the value of respect, then respect is also a part of your sincerity.
If you know that your sincerity might be abused by someone with vicious intentions, then your self-defencive deceit is also a part of your sincerity.

[Anonymous No.11270744]

>>11268943
>an enormously repressed beast also. as that other anon says, a Jedi-Sith alliance would be pretty monstrous. we should not cross the streams like this, but capitalism crosses all streams.

It was the same anon.
Communism and Capitalism both have their truths.
What makes the current situation so monstrous is:
Shock that creates Confusion.
Exploitation of that shock in order to amass power for the sake of power.

People who amass power for the sake of power are usually deep down afraid of the fact that they are unable to be equal among equals and/or hold lower positions with dignity.
On the other hand same goes for people who do Communication for the sake of Communication. They hide their lack of ability to be responsible and/or be alone.

Power and Freedom are like black jack.
>=20, you lose.
21, you win.
22<=, you burn.

[Anonymous No.11270760]

>>11270744
Intensionall nonsense is the creation of many small disasters.

[Anonymous No.11270856]

>>11268943
>i have sympathy for anyone having a legit existential crisis, i think. it's spectacle and theatre that i find so odious.

Good quote.
Forced Unsincere Existential crisises are like one step forward two steps backwords.

[Anonymous No.11271066]

>>11266559
Wouldn't Zizek say that this is pure ideology ?

[Anonymous No.11271093]

>>11271066
He's an epigone of Badiou, if that's any kind of ideology, it's Žižek's own.

[Anonymous No.11271274]

>>11270515
because you can't be the world's greatest vidya critic without a background in art theory, and nobody does art theory better than the continentals. that page is really good.

>>11270723
>did it not at least provide a controlled shock?
sure, like pic rel. a steady diet of this will kill you, but in an emergency...

>If you know that your sincerity might be abused by someone with vicious intentions, then your self-defensive deceit is also a part of your sincerity.
welcome to the world of hyperstition. true, it can all become of a stupid and paranoid meme very quickly. but it was this or language games. one of those times when I Choose The Matrix was actually the *right* thing to say. affirm that from which you cannot escape and all kinds of interesting doors open up.

>>11270744
>Shock that creates Confusion.
>Exploitation of that shock in order to amass power for the sake of power.
there's a book by naomi klein on this very subject, and a pretty good one too. it's all part of the world we live in now, controlled experiments, brushfires, games played with humanity for power and $$$. wilfully or no, ironically or no, all the rest.

i happen to really dislike irony in all of its forms, because it changes from being a tool of critique to being one of control. and beyond a certain horizon we lose sight of all meaningful differences and distinctions. this is one of the inevitable consequences of postmodernity, and that it morphs into post-postmodernity - idpol, rage, and so on - isn't surprising. it's why i look to the philosophers i look to today: not only to explain how it is that we got to this situation, but where this is heading, and what we can do in the meantime. DFW is right in that sense: this is a good time for Sincerity, but the catch-22 of this is that ofc nothing is more Sincere than frothing outrage and victimization. i admire JBPs work for this reason but his work suffers from a lack of engagement with what he is criticizing. he demonizes derrida and foucault without seeing them as part of a historical process; the same goes for baudrillard. he would be horrified by land, i'm sure, and would probably reject the nice things i have to say about confucius. girard he would probably like, but i suspect a lot of it would seem like just so much willed despair. but these are the times we live in.

>>11270856
>Forced Unsincere Existential crisises are like one step forward two steps backwards.
forced positivity is death, but it's a product of the valorization of capital and mimetic culture. read byung-chul han for more on this if you're interested. burnout is a real phenomenon and an important one.

>>11271066
maybe, but i think he'd be setting himself up for an argument he would lose. badiou would reply by saying that, essentially, he finds his lack of faith disturbing, i think. badiou likes lacan almost as much as zizek does, but he's a much more hard-core communist than zizek is. way more.

[Anonymous No.11271300]

I wish it were active progress instead of passive progress. At least then I'd have an option to die for something

[Anonymous No.11271301]

>>11271274
>byung-chul han
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.11271351]

>>11271066
just to continue on this: badiou's real challenge, and the guy that i think he always secretly wanted either to join his side or be refuted was deleuze. it's part of what makes deleuze such a key player in the continental philosophy game of thrones story. deleuze's metaphysics are both an overturning of lacan and can be read as an apologetics for neoliberal capitalism. and yet, in spite of all of that, he remains a marxist (incredible, but true). people always have a hard time with deleuze because, as is the case with spinoza and nietzsche, it's very difficult to prove him wrong. and even historically i think this was the case: it's always difficult to disprove or refute spinozists and nietzscheans. they're just too honest, and this is why we like them, but it's also why they're unsettling. i think it was part of deleuze's own genius: dissolve oedipus and you dissolve the politics that derive from this. land bought into this and concluded in the end that all that remained was capitalism and technology which, when combined, meant only acceleration.

zizek seems to be in a position of being squeezed ever more into defending what he knows is completely compromised: that is, social democracy. it's been happening for years, but as time goes on i think it becomes more difficult for him. he sometimes feels much more like a kind of frankfurt school type, seeing the contradictions within ideology but being more interested in patching up the walls and dams rather than letting the flood in and starting again from ground zero. but fidelity to Ground Zeroes is what badiou is all about, and he's been that way since 1968. his only real foil in this was deleuze. comparing and reading about those two guys is some really interesting high-test continental theory fun if you're into it.

good essay on this here also.
https://plijournal.com/files/Pli_10_11_Brassier.pdf

but in the long run, tho, you have to ask: given that china is now joining the world of international trade, the BRI and so on, maybe zizek's take on this will make more sense. china is hardly maoist any longer, and May 68-style barricades are unlikely to be seen in the future (unless they're put up by right-wing parties in europe for very different reasons). zizek's vision of communism may in fact be as defunct as badiou's vision of maoism, whether in china or in europe.

and all of *this* in turn kind of clarifies why land in turn fell for moldbug: dissolve these gigantic hegemonic-imperial macro-states, replace them with a patchwork of tiny ones, and let the market sort your political needs for you. fanged noumena shows you what happens when you cross the streams between far-out communism and hyper-libertarianism: acceleration. for land/moldbug secession makes more sense than unity and ideology, and putting sovereign individuals at the head of patchworks sovcorps optimized for profit makes a lot more sense than trying to make the numbers align with our utopian anthropocentrism.

[Anonymous No.11271411]

>>11271351
>zizek's vision of communism may in fact be as defunct as badiou's vision of maoism, whether in china or in europe.

for Best Reading i should have reversed these two clauses, but w/ev. the idea was to be a little more kind to zizek, but i'm sure you understood what i meant.

i kind of feel like a cub reporter on these things sometimes. i've kind of been just trying to align myself with what the Grown-Ups are saying, in the hopes that i would find some agreement there and could get on with my life, be on the right side of history and so on. what i've discovered is

a) philosophers are no saints
b) politics is not necessarily ultimate horizon of meaning, and
c) just when you think things cannot get any crazier, they always do. the story never really ends.

marx is really the turning point. before him you're still in the Enlightenment, with enlightened monarchs playing the violin in salons. after marx you're in the modern world.

so questions now involve psychology, group and individual, technology and so on. it's hard to make predictions, but in the age of casino capitalism - futures, derivatives, public-private partnerships and so on - everything is so tangled up in everything else it's almost impossible to see. if i felt like i had a clear and consistent message ti'd probably be in uni working on a master's degree, but uni's are pretty compromised. i just like having the conversation about it and sharing what i know, which is why i come here. it's the greatest story ever told. especially the parts told by land on kant and marx in fanged noumena: that stuff is fucking operatic.

>with kant death finds its theoretical formulation and utilitarian frame as a quasi-objectivity correlative to capital, and noumenon is its name. the effective flotation of this term in philosophy coincided with the emergence of a social order built upon a profound rationalization of excess, or rigorous circumspection of voluptuous lethality. once enlightenment rationalism beings its dominion ever fewer corpses are left hanging around in public places with each passing year, ever fewer skulls are used as paperweights, and ever fewer paupers perish undisturbed on the streets. even the graveyards are rationalized and tidied up. it is not surprising, therefore, with with Kant thanatology undergoes the most massive reconstruction in its history. the clerical vultures are purged, or marginalized. death is no longer to be culturally circulated, injecting a transcendent reference into production, and ensuring superterrestrial interests their rights. instead death is privatized, withdrawn into interiority, to flicker at the edge of the contract as a narcissistic anxiety without public accreditation. compared to the immortal soul of capital the death of the individual becomes an empirical triviality, a mere re-allocation of stock.

would be a hell of a movie. how the matrix was made, how we got from there to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IsSpAOD6K8

[Anonymous No.11271480]

>>11271411
and - durr - that land quote is actually from the book on bataille, not in fanged noumena. sorry.

need a stronger cup of coffee i guess. catch all later.

[Anonymous No.11271525]

>>11271480
so, fill in the blanks pls
from philosophy of freedom and autonomy to ...
from fundamental limits of meaning to ...
from crazy Badiou to ...
from enlightenment as mass deception to enlightenment as ....

[Anonymous No.11271648]

>>11271300
Well. Concentrate on living for something then.

[Anonymous No.11271998]

>>11271525
1/2

1
>from philosophy of freedom and autonomy to…
philosophy of psychic and collective individuation. you are not free and not autonomous. your freedom is inescapably and fatally contingent. intelligence requires signal coherence. conduction > seduction. we are all in this thing together and the golden rule applies. so also does the lesser-known silver rule: in a hierarchical power structure, treat others beneath you in the way you would like others above you to treat you. see gilbert simondon for more on this.

this is not an argument for totalitarianism (omnitarianism?) but the for the relaxing of tensions between The State and The Individual (as well as those of Mind and Machine). to argue against capital is to argue against intelligence, but intelligence should serve as a corrective against consumer decadence as well as admin bloat. as cultural imperative it is very difficult to find a flaw in the Great Learning:

>From the Son of Heaven down to the mass of the people, all must consider the cultivation of the person the root of everything besides. It cannot be, when the root is neglected, that what should spring from it will be well ordered. It never has been the case that what was of great importance has been slightly cared for, and, at the same time, that what was of slight importance has been greatly cared for.

2
>from fundamental limits of meaning to…
fundamental unlimitedness of machinic intelligence. Meaning is pure fluxion, but invoking That’s Not What I Mean is a game for children. you have to mean something, and being a performance artist is silly. confucius > foucault/derrida et al. the concept of li is more useful here than power, discipline, sadomasochism or phallologocentrism. postmodernity was useful in getting this far, but further tarrying with the negative in this sense leads only to the viral propagation of post-postmodernity as a militant illiberalism indistinguishable from hysteria.

there is no upper limit on cybernetic complexity. human brains are stunningly fertile generators of thought but they are also transmitter-receptors for science, art, and philosophy. we dwell neither wholly separately nor collectively upon the plane of immanence. what intelligence is is literally and figuratively unrepresntable. the world’s most poisonous argument today is a boilerplate reading of the frankfurt school, which can only terminate in a philosophy of litigation and damages dressed up anti-imperialist critique. it is time to move on.

3
>from crazy Badiou to…
badiou isn’t remotely crazy. the question is about the nature of Evil. it’s not like he’s not aware of nietzsche’s good/bad vs good/evil distinction. re-conceptualizing Evil is germane. only the sophist claims to know no distinctions between these things, but to say this means a doomed wrestling-match with the ghosts of nietzsche, spinoza, and deleuze. badiou is a complete pain in the ass like this but he’s also an absolutely necessary one.

[Anonymous No.11272006]

>>11271998
>>11271525
2/2

4
>from enlightenment as mass deception to enlightenment as….
self-reflective catallactic megaprocess. mass cybernetic optimization. philosophy becomes among other things civilizational therapeutics for the post-anthropocene, though it is not limited to this.

there is nothing deceptive about enlightenment. read again the final pages of What Is Philosophy? the world is *chaos.* fetishizing a secret cabal of patriarchal overlords gleefully wringing their hands over kant and sade is hysterical agitprop of the worst possible kind. everyone is a minority today. progressivism - race, gender, et al - is not even a screen for progressivism, but a shotgun wedding that combines the worst of both worlds, neomarxism and neoliberalism. so long as large corporations can be semantically bludgeoned into submitting to the cultural orthodoxy, trust evaporates and far-right populist movements continue to draw crowds. and this is not to say, Oh No, Fascism! both fascism and communism have to be understood as being polarities of thought and responses to planetary technology.

here’s a question: what if we are just repeating the industrial revolution here? once we exported the machines, and now Capital has transcended itself as the planetary. now it all comes back again, this time at the level of the brain. something very new is at work here. astonishing, mind-fucking, drool-inducing technological innovation has been the result of the 20C’s catalyzing of desire and technology that we call capitalism: the computer that processes desire. that computer is now massively more complicated than we are and looking to become even moreso. this is a revolution that does not require our tampering or our management, but also is one which - perhaps uniquely, perhaps not - we are not well-served by drawing back completely from, because it is a well and truly planetary phenomenon. going Full Kacynski is not the way forward. and even heidegger, who i like, must have known that even his beloved teutoburg cabin was going to be defended and preserved by advanced fighter aircraft and hydroelectric dams. so wat do? land is right: a critical re-encounter with heidegger is important. how this is done is up for grabs (personally, i think one way to go is via girard.)

the future doesn’t need to be terrifying. a lot of ghosts have to come out and be set free. a brave new zero-G world awaits. wilder and crazier than anything we’ve seen before. Learning To Love Capitalism is the ultraproject. we live in liminal times. otherworldly and ethereal does not even begin to describe what’s going on or the horizons for which we are bound.

the Rehabilitation of Capitalism for a new and cybernetic world is a thing worthy of poetry. there is no other way. it doesn’t have to be all bad. it will not resemble anything we have seen before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawsObcPWss
>tfw every love song now becomes a love song about loving capitalism

[Anonymous No.11272191]

>>11271525
i really enjoyed these prompts, btw, so thanks for asking them. same goes for >>11265565.

i believe in land's demented vision, but what is required today is the re-optimization of things, in many senses, in both a technical sense but also in a very different sense, even a spiritual one. a lot of contemporary philosophy is dark and scary, but that's actually what's good about it. as IRL, it's good to visit the Great Outdoors. imagining a New Cybernetics seems to me to be a really worthwhile goal, for a lot of reasons: life on an automatic planet. futurism tries to get too far ahead of the curve, and reaction falls back on places that are always undercut by ye olde flowing spice.

what else, for example, was the Matrix but a withdrawal of libido? it was a containment unit for people who really couldn't live without the illusion. but there is no Real Illusion other than that which critique supplies autopoetically. intelligence is the thing to think about. and the void isn't the endgame, it's the point of departure. that's the secret and beautiful message hidden in cyberpunk, which mariani alludes to. or, as D&G say, the truth is that we really haven't seen anything yet.

[Anonymous No.11272263]

>>11272191
Do you have a degree anon?
You sound like you need to self-regulate a bit.

[Anonymous No.11272409]

>>11272263
>Do you have a degree anon?
two. one undergraduate and one graduate, but neither are in philosophy. i did the reading on my own, and kind of more or less obsessively, which is why my posts no doubt come off as being so batshit and unfiltered.

>You sound like you need to self-regulate a bit.
it is known. i've never been the self-regulating type (although over-regulation is much more likely). but it's not for lack of trying, as strange as this might seem. more that i really wanted to Follow The Rules and yet i kept finding the Rules to be curiously arbitrary and circular in ways that weren't really explicable other than in terms of continental philosophy. now it all seems to be a kind of weirdly predictable mimetic shit-show, but i'm still kind of on the side of civilization in this sense. outrage culture depresses the shit out of me.

there's always a risk, i suppose, in posting things in the unfiltered way that i do here, but i find generally speaking it's worth it. it's definitely good for sharpening whatever it is that i actually think, and it would be nice to think that maybe it kindles something for other anons also. so i guess i don't mind being the Wild Man of Borneo in that sense. or on a really good day something like pic rel. on the side of Peace In The Kingdom, but consequently dwelling pretty far out on the fringes of it.

[Anonymous No.11272459]

>>11272409
>more that i really wanted to Follow The Rules and yet i kept finding the Rules to be curiously arbitrary and circular in ways that weren't really explicable other than in terms of continental philosophy.

Yeah, I wrote a piece about that while working in a warehouse.
I called it "The stagnation-Creating repetitability"

Generally, as far as rules are concerned, I tend to keep the middle way.
Neither a passive stance nor an aggressive stance, unless you have to nullify your envinronment's aggression or passivity, but an asserive one.

It is hard, but every one of us holds a basic kernel on which we build upon...

[Anonymous No.11272471]

>>11272409
I would probably be their kid.
Pic rel

[Anonymous No.11272611]

>>11272409
>but consequently dwelling pretty far out on the fringes of it.

Whenever you or/and the time is ready come back and share results!

[Anonymous No.11272639]

>>11272263
I actually enjoy reading him because I don t have any degree and very few anon take the time to really write long posts and give depth to their thoughts.
For uneducated assholes like me it gives some insights on modern philosophy with moderate effort, stuff that fits my degenerate way of consuming information. Godspeed

[Anonymous No.11272724]

>>11266816
>to pay back an internal symbolic debt to the demiurge
>Art so as to grant the devil his due
Fuck that. This only raises the value of negation to artists. But their desire for social validation pushes them to frame destruction as creation, so we end up with non-rhetorical jokes in material forms. The installation is usually a butcher shop, and it makes people hungry usually for fine cuts; and especially, most especially, all nonsense is made sensible by the conditions of language, meaning group attention brought to bare on some irregularity will force a syllogism. But where and how does that syllogism arrive?
>>11267145
>that combines the worst of both worlds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qffy6uHkcTU

---
>i'm still attached to some notion of a sort of courtly and technologically advanced civilization that gets over the hump of idpol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kArAUMqmYBA
>>11267301
neo-victorian
>>11267558
>interesting how those mythologies tho don't seem to transfer to China. but maybe this is all stuff that happens to make the buddha and laozi who they are.

Any comparative work on the formation of ancient China and ancient India? anyone? History folks?
>we have hollowed out the mortar that holds the bricks together.

Naw, y'all put on a play and then stepped out of the scene to berate the audience and we just started yelling back for fun. It's full immersion now, and no going back. Colosseum.
>>11268124
comfy.
>>11268228
Cyberpunk as a glorification of resentment against the "dragons" or technocrats, (the ancient Egyptian scribal classes taking power?), will remain profitable for the foreseeable future.

The basis of progress is reached in groups responding either contradictory or not to advances in technology and is usually is slowed in the case when not.

>>11268943
>>11269585
>a historical process
It's just a different engagement, a different rhetorical strategy that doesn't diminish the present position, in fact it spotlights the present as actionable and labels a higher value on using what is accessible to the most amount of people.
>>11271301
>>11271300
faster!
>>11271351
>when you cross the streams between far-out communism and hyper-libertarianism: >sovereign individuals at the head of patchworks sovcorps optimized for profit makes a lot more sense than trying to make the numbers align with our utopian anthropocentrism.

the very essence of that idea is such a weird forcing of terms and concepts onto processes which are so much more complex than this though, each sense of governance and sovereignty in relation to your sovcorps is going to be much more specific than these abstractions and therefore more subject to growth, complexity, collapse and renewal. That the size of the sovereignty changes and adapts, breaks apart to ward off centralisation, or forms together to deter a predator is interesting - not a strategy or philosophy that can be applied. You can't legitimise a process into action. Failure.

[Anonymous No.11272765]

>>11272639
Ohhh, me as well all the way.
It just makes me sad that he/she has so many things to communicate and gets lost in a sea of assholes and reaction.
But deffinetly has things to say!
You are not an asshole for not having a degree.

[Anonymous No.11272839]

>>11272191
>the truth is that we really haven't seen anything yet.

God, I miss uni so much!
Music break!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sGJKsWSsPr0

[Anonymous No.11272860]

>>11267558
>we're absolutely swamped with art. look at any of your favorite alt-right tumblr blogs or whatever, they're full of girls, food porn, gun porn and fashion. aesthetics are what win political campaigns, but everything is postmodern now and perhaps more or less permanently.

We live in Duchamp's Urinal, bathe in the piss my friend

[Anonymous No.11272881]

>>11272860
>a glorification of resentment

[Anonymous No.11272980]

>>11272860
Pic rel, mine.

[Anonymous No.11273047]

>>11272980
Is his brain a black hole, or is that a Ronald McDonald/Kirby demon vacuuming his brain out?

[Anonymous No.11273058]

>>11265660
yikes

[Anonymous No.11273067]

>>11272980
WHIRRRRRRRRRRR

[Anonymous No.11273072]

>>11262617
>https://jacobitemag.com/2018/06/02/a-separate-grim-future/
>The most tantalizing predictions of cyberpunk never came true. There are no gangs of cyborgs ruling over Manhattan shantytowns and there are no corporations larger than the federal government.
>there are no corporations larger than the federal government.
Kek

[Anonymous No.11273088]

>>11273047
It a fucking SpiderMonster!

[Anonymous No.11273158]

>>11272724
a challenger appears! and frankly none too soon. it's about time somebody threw a hand grenade at me. welcome to the thread anon (and for the choice music links also, those are very much appreciated).

>the very essence of that idea is such a weird forcing of terms and concepts onto processes which are so much more complex than this though, each sense of governance and sovereignty in relation to your sovcorps is going to be much more specific than these abstractions and therefore more subject to growth, complexity, collapse and renewal. That the size of the sovereignty changes and adapts, breaks apart to ward off centralisation, or forms together to deter a predator is interesting - not a strategy or philosophy that can be applied.

no, i agree with this. something like this came up in one of the more interesting xenosystems threads where the OI gang was talking about this, the aspect of necessary paranoia-schizophrenia within even in the most theoretically airtight of corporate formalizations. because you're right, it probably isn't possible. but the point was, iirc, not to say that it couldn't or shouldn't be attempted. the fact is that you really *can't* calculate for fractality of growth, complexity, collapse and renewal, and yet history nevertheless supplies mysterious examples of prudent governance and economic foresight that unfold like beautiful (and sadly evanescent) flowers, despite the generally torrential and unpredictable weather. singapore worked because it was an open society, however authoritarian. this is the Great Waltz of capitalism.

it is probably safe to say that at best you have for these things heuristics, iteration, engineering and ikigai. how to build your sovcorp from within chaos and as such to be chaos-resistant without being more paranoid than it needs to be is the holy grail for these guys. perhaps much as what sloterdijk seems to say about general immunology. as for me, i just like deducing virtue ethics from it.

>>11272860
>bathe in the piss my friend
i'd rather not. i'd prefer to Break Glass In Case of Emergency and shill unironically for icycalm here:

>Cutting-edge game design: maximum complexity, elaborate mechanics, maximum difficulty; no gimmickry, no "meaning"
>"Casual" game design: lower complexity, simpler mechanics, lower difficulty; some gimmickry, some "meaning"
>"Indie" game design: lowest complexity, simplest mechanics, lowest difficulty; a lot of gimmickry, a lot of "meaning"
>"Art" game design: practically non-existent complexity, practically non-existent mechanics, practically no difficulty; maximum gimmickry, maximum "meaning"

of course, this applies mainly to vidya, but still. it's not that Art is Dead, it's just that we're looking to keep hope alive in places where it isn't. doing so is process better known as necromancy, and necronomics is what lies at the dark heart of the current cultural orthodoxy, imho.

>>11272881
the caption on that pic is too good anon.

[Anonymous No.11273167]

>>11265665

kek.

[Anonymous No.11273171]

>>11273158
>shill unironically for icycalm
now I can safely disregard all of your opinions

[Anonymous No.11273255]

its CYBERPUNK so i want to learn how to HACK. I am reading SICP and know Python so i think i am ready. Post books, post tutorials
To start here is 900 page long book about hacking websites
https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/the-web-application-hackers-handbook.pdf

[Anonymous No.11273329]

>>11273158
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvUQcnfwUUM

[Anonymous No.11273373]

>>11262679
It's a robot dragon, damn it.

[Anonymous No.11273449]

>>11273373
Hummingbird model*. Onboard music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HX_jF1_Tgc

*Private harnessing costs are extra. See nearest agent for details.

[Anonymous No.11273474]

>>11262918
Modernity was Protestant spirituality gradually developing the power of stealth.

[Anonymous No.11273481]

>>11273474
no.

[Anonymous No.11273485]

>>11273171
the arcade culture essay was terrific, and so is that nice page of reactionary art criticism. given the choice between applauding the worst excesses of ressentiment culture and playing Dodonpachi on max difficulty it's not even an option. i wish all his stuff wasn't hidden behind paywalls but i'm glad the world has at least one ubermenschen vidya art critic in it. i wish he had more stuff to read.

>>11273329
that man is so depressing. bernhard, i mean. after reading through several pages of bernhard quotes and now wanting to drink paint thinner i find hating on mungo jerry is a waste of (again, thanks to bernhard, utterly pointless) energy.

[Anonymous No.11273849]

>>11264014
>and by the time you are prepared, you realize the thing is already done.
Nice.

[Anonymous No.11274008]

Contributin with art.

[Anonymous No.11274419]

>>11267405
>Zen master
Doesn't exist. Only western scammers use it.

[Anonymous No.11275221]

Bump