[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 22 KB, 311x500, platos-republic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11231011 No.11231011 [Reply] [Original]

About to dive into this bad boy, what am i in for /lit/? any thing i should do before or while im reading?

>> No.11231014

prepare for a lot of stupid ideas

>> No.11231019

>>11231014
anyone ones in particular you want to tell me about?

>> No.11231020

Understand that you won't completely appreciate it on your first read through.

>> No.11231030

>>11231019
philosopher kangs

>> No.11231047

>>11231020
i don't get this meme, this can be said about any book. A second read through of any book will allow you to find/ understand something you didn't the first time.
You read all the books you have twice so you cna appreciate them?

>> No.11231488

Just finished reading the Bloom translation, so I may be off base.

Don't go in anticipating a solely political work. The development of the ideal city, the different factions and artisans therein, the virtues from which a community is organized can all be read as metaphors for the development and refinement of one's own spirit. Taken together, you can interpret the text as a complex elaboration of the fundamental political problem: the good of the individual vis-a-vis the good of the community.

Even though you won't understand everything on your first reading, the scope of the dialogue encompasses a lot of different topics, all of which can be great springboards to contemplating key philosophical issues. Also, resist the urge to read Socrate's/Plato's conception of the "ideal" city as prescriptive.

>> No.11232773

>>11231030
What's undesirable about having a philosopher king?

>> No.11233803

the worst work by an otherwise fascinating thinker

>> No.11233805

Read Capital before.

>> No.11233840

Disregard all other brainlet replies.

Think about what's in the book (not saying this ironically - recall some of the ideas sometimes, reread etc.)
Try to feel what you read. For example, in book 9, where Plato describes the soul (of a tyrant), try to actually feel those parts of the soul, see if it's adequate.
Try to learn something from it.
Try to learn some of the more important concepts (the soul, Being, being, justice, reason, intellect, etc.) in Greek (it's totally different and not only because of sedimentation)
Read the late dialogues (mainly the Sophist and Parmenides), then read Politeia again in light of what you've read
In book 6, where Plato describes what attributes a philosopher should have, see how you align.
Remember philosophy is firstly practical and secondly theoretical

>> No.11233864

>>11233840
This.

>> No.11233866

>>11231011
It can be very subtle!! You need to pay attention to what's going on in every scene, what each character represents, what they're talking about, what implications aren't explicitly stated. I was lucky enough to be surrounded by people who understood Plato very well when I was reading the republic. It was the first book that really changed the way tI hink about the world, it taught me that thinking is so much more an art, a dance, than anything else. I really had no proper introduction to logic before reading it, but it really laid down the fundamentals of deconstruction for me and taught me how to always look for the essence of things.

>> No.11233875

>>11231011
>what am i in for /lit/?
autism

>> No.11233886

>>11231011
the smartest work of political phil ever penned, implicitly fascist

>> No.11233888

>>11231019
Communal reproduction.

>> No.11233943

>>11233840
>"feel"
>soul
There's nothing practical about using meaningless subjective nonsense when reading you fucking brainlet apologist.

>> No.11234022

>>11233943
pre-logos understanding is necessary for understanding through logos

>> No.11234038

>>11233943
furthermore, what i said is a major topic in the republic. do you think you, who doesnt know anything about yourself or the world on any level, logical or prelogical, are ready for dialectics?

>> No.11234190

if you dont think plato is right about everything, you are just a bronze soul pleb

>> No.11235929

>>11231011
Stop pre-forming judgements on the text by reading hot takes from 19 year olds on /lit/

>> No.11235954

>>11233888
I think that's a good idea because it provides more incentive for people to care about the welfare of their whole society rather than just their family and basically solves the problems of massively uneven wealth redistribution by destroying the concept of inheritance

>> No.11235981

>>11231047
Many serious philosophy students (and professors) say Plato's argument about forms in Republic is the hardest, but most beautiful, argument they've come to grapple with. There's always something to pick up, going back to it.

>> No.11235985

>>11231011
I thought that “virtue” and “justice” were never defined that well. Thrasymachus believes that justice is simply the interest of the stronger, yet moments later he uses the adjective just to describe a man of virtue, contradicting his own explicit definition of what just means. After that I couldn’t follow along because Socrates punished him based on that contradiction. I agree with Thrasymachus’ definition of justice, yet Socrates can not converse with ME, so I cannot be persuaded and continuing reading would be a waste of my time since I’m constantly reminded of the hole in the story.

>> No.11235995

>>11233840
>Remember philosophy is firstly practical and secondly theoretical
imagine being this wrong

>> No.11236010

>>11232773
they only last as long as they live, old age, retirement, or assassination ends thier enlightened reign eventually.

>> No.11236012

pls help me find an answer, lads.

>>11236000
>>11236000
>>11236000

>> No.11236013

>>11231019
state enforced/regulated music

>> No.11236028

>>11235954
Yeah but it makes everyone huge cucks

>> No.11236052

>>11236028
Cuckoldry wouldn't exist because all children would belong to and be cared for by the community.
>>11233888
I'd still like to hear a good argument for why this is a "terrible idea" because it seems like a great idea.

>> No.11236058

>>11236028
it's the evolutionary strategy of more than a few mammals. if no one knows who the father is they don't kill children an they all defend the tribe and children because anyone child could be theirs. also tends to favor sperm competition leading to the evolution of massive testicles.

>> No.11236081

>>11234022
this, famalam

>> No.11236718

>>11233888
Still waiting to hear the downside to this.

>> No.11236724

>>11231011
It's fine but don't forget to read the other works of Plato before you think you "get" his thought

>> No.11237436
File: 78 KB, 172x171, Woah.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11237436

>>11231030
I don't think you understand the point. It was an argument that those who rule over us should be well trained to do so

>>11233888
Fair enough bad idea

>>11236013
There was an actual argument laid out in the dialogue for this but keep crying libertarian

>> No.11237441

>>11237436
>There was an actual argument laid out in the dialogue
no way
did you come to this conclusion yourself?

>> No.11237452

>>11237441
The whole claim that effeminate music creates effeminate men is somewhat valid.
I think Socrates said music should "resemble the voice of a warrior"
Look around today, listening to Katy Perry and the Beatles has turned modern men into fags

>> No.11237458

>>11237452
yeah we should all listen to Death Metal and Industrial to harden the soul and the body

>> No.11237486
File: 19 KB, 220x293, thesoc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11237486

>>11237458
You're taking it too literally
You have to translate what he said into our modern understanding
For example in one study rats had a harder time navigating mazes when exposed to modern pop music but navigated faster when exposed to classical
This is probably what's behind the whole theory of playing classical music into a pregnant woman's belly and why people think it will make them more intelligent
Can you please stop being such a wise ass, I thought those people were contained to /pol/ or maybe you're from there

>> No.11237555

>>11237486
Anon, you're the one taking the totalitarian and a-historical presuppositions of Plato as the ultimate authority on a question that has occupied philosophers for millennia "too literally". That's why I'm mocking you by taking it "too literally"

>> No.11237881

>>11237555
We're not talking about me, we're talking about the point made in the dialogue
Now debunk the point and not me