Gateless Gate Zen Koan Bullshit

[Anonymous No.11213994]

The fuck is this shit? None of this Zen shit makes any sense. Is it basically all just "dude, what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence".

What am I missing?

[Anonymous No.11214000]

Here it is for those who want to become enraged
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/glg/index.htm

"A monk told Joshu: "I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me."

Joshu asked: "Have you eaten your rice porridge?"

The monk replied: "I have eaten."

Joshu said: "Then you had better wash your bowl."

At that moment the monk was enlightened."

[Anonymous No.11214004]

"Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When anyone asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy would raise his finger.

Gutei heard about the boy's mischief. He seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and ran away. Gutei called and stopped him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own finger. In that instant the boy was enlightened.

When Gutei was about to pass from this world he gathered his monks around him. "I attained my finger-Zen," he said, "from my teacher Tenryu, and in my whole life I could not exhaust it." Then he passed away."

[Anonymous No.11214027]

Zen is wired . I remember reading some zen storys or ancdotes, when I was younger mostly took them as jokes. Some where completely incomprehensible to me.

[Anonymous No.11214044]

>>11214000

This shit is fucking hilarious. These monks were a comedy troupe and all that enlightenment shit is a western misinterpretation.

[Anonymous No.11214076]

>>11214044
it's praxis

[Anonymous No.11214087]

>>11214004
did zen masters do anything beyond killing cats, cutting fingers, bulling random monks, and slapping people?

were they just some sort of weird /b/ religion?

[Anonymous No.11214099]

>>11213994
is zen a living tradition? or is it dead? i know there are zen monks like the Shaolin monks but western autists say it's not real zen because they incorporate pure land buddhism, so is there any living lineage of zen? or is it just people larping and being smug to each other about what is and isn't zen, without any legitimate transmission of the original tradition?

[Anonymous No.11214107]

>>11214076

Sorry, I don't know that fella.

[Anonymous No.11214114]

>>11213994
You don’t get it because your pineal gland is calcified by the Jews.

Here’s the best book regarding Zen.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLx3kkJHR0

The stories you’re posting about random enlightenment are just examples of people synchronising with god/natural law/source of all existence in every moment. Meditation enlightens people because it gets them to stop thinking.

You can never reach enlightenment through mind. Only by silencing the mind and following the spirit do you realise enlightenment was always there to be had in every moment and that is your true self.

So this porridge story is simply the moment a monk tapped into the same spirit that animates all life and guides every atom and cell.

CLEAN YOUR BOWL.

[Anonymous No.11214122]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm jeez, I wonder why the esoteric meanings of a bunch of deliberately-aimless riddles designed to only be shared by Zen masters to their disciples only after years (even decades) of spiritual cultivation aren't immediately grasped by doughy millennials who's greatest spiritual experience was watching the trailer for Infinity War???

really gets your noggin joggin'....

[Anonymous No.11214141]

>>11214122

You are anally raped.

[Anonymous No.11214142]

>>11214099
Yes, there are still functioning Zen monasteries. It's not like the world upped and collectively abandoned spiritual pursuits the moment the NES was invented.

[Anonymous No.11214146]

>>11214141
Is that supposed to be a koan?

[Anonymous No.11214156]

>>11214146

If your anus was to be raped by a zen monk, sure. Everything those chinks do is a fucking koan. But this is real life and I'm just a hangover guy.

[Anonymous No.11214163]

>taking seriously Mahayana and vajrayana

[Anonymous No.11214175]

>>11214156
>Everything those chinks do is a fucking koan
You say this like it's a bad thing

>>11214163
>Spiritual traditions with thousands of years of history and countless enlightened masters are a joke because of limited modernist sensibilities

[Anonymous No.11214184]

>>11214114
so they want to make haikus real?

[Anonymous No.11214185]

>>11214122
you said it yourself nigga

"deliberately-aimless"

[Anonymous No.11214190]

>>11214163
>vajrayana
>not wanting to have tantric sex
you're not one of those basket wearers, are you?

[Anonymous No.11214220]

>>11214185
In a dualistic sense,sure. They're not meant to be grasped by thought, because they're meant to force the ponderer into a state of thoughtless mind. They're literally designed to shortcut you into spiritual awakening.

[Anonymous No.11214276]

>>11214175

>You say this like it's a bad thing
It can be annoying.

[Anonymous No.11214287]

"Nansen saw the monks of the eastern and western halls fighting over a cat. He seized the cat and told the monks: "If any of you say a good word, you can save the cat."

No one answered. So Nansen boldly cut the cat in two pieces.

That evening Joshu returned and Nansen told him about this. Joshu removed his sandals and, placing them on his head, walked out.

Nansen said: "If you had been there, you could have saved the cat."

[Anonymous No.11214298]

"A monk asked Joshu why Bodhidharma came to China.

Joshu said: "An oak tree in the garden."
"A monk asked Ummon: "What is Buddha?"

Ummon answered him: "Dried dung."

[Anonymous No.11214299]

>>11214287

[Anonymous No.11214317]

>"If you claim to get it you don't get it"
>*Becomes enlightened*

[Anonymous No.11214325]

Let's write our own Koans, I bet we can do better than these ancient monks.

[Anonymous No.11214334]

>>11214325
How does one stop being a NEET?

The train is late.

[Anonymous No.11214349]

>>11214325
A monk joined the temple and was put to menial tasks. He complained to the head monk Janshu asking why he was being given so much work. Janshu sat in silence before nodding his head. At that moment the monk was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11214362]

>>11214325
A monk asked Joshu "what is the nature of enlightenment?"

Joshu sat, and replied: "Enlightenment is hard to describe. It is the xperiential realisation that all things come from no-thing, and that it is this no-thing that forms the forms the fundamental basis of reality. It is really quite liberating and refreshing, but rather difficult to grasp."

At that moment, the monk was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11214371]

>>11214362
as if, he would just point towards two cats fornicating

[Anonymous No.11214381]

>>11214325

A young monk monk walked into his master's bedroom. The master was caught masturbating to a cumshot compilation with Mambo Nº 5 as a background track. The master pointed at the young monk and shouted at him: Shut the fuck up. At that moment, the young monk was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11214394]

Why don't people become enlightened any more? Or do they? Is there a list of currently enlightened people? Can we put them all in a room together and see what happens?

[Anonymous No.11214397]

>>11214325
are traps gay?

[Anonymous No.11214405]

>>11214325
A monk barged into the door to show Joshu a piece of art that he felt captured zen perfectly.

Joshu replied "fake and gay"

upon hearing this the monk was enlightened

[Anonymous No.11214419]

when pepe visited the monastery wojak asked him about the meaning of life
pepe: remember that haiku about the frog jumping into water?
wojak: yes
pepe: then why the fuck do you ask me about meaning of life?

[Anonymous No.11214468]

During the evening meals head monk Bansho walked into the dining room picked up a bowl of rice and dumped it on the floor. He asked: "What would the Buddha do in this situation?"

Emo, the novice monk, walked over to the rice and without using his hands started eating the food off the ground.

Bansho smiled and said: "well done" And Emo became the new head monk.

[Anonymous No.11214507]

>>11214000
>Koans are a Zen Buddhist spiritual technique which use word-play to achieve enlightenment. They frequently involve absurd or contradictory statements, which are intended to create extreme cognitive dissonance in the mind of the pupil. As such, their actual content or structure is not as important as the mental state which they induce.

>Thing explicitly fucking explains exactly what the point of them is in plain language
>Wahh, I don't understand, why can't they make sense, what's the point?!

You guys are a riot.

[Anonymous No.11214511]

>>11214325
OP asked, "Who are the most /lit/ musicians?"

Anon answered: ">>>/mu/."

[Anonymous No.11214515]

>>11214114
>because it gets them to stop thinking.
not quite, controlling your thoughts is only the first step

[Anonymous No.11214518]

>>11214507
>believing that revisionist crap

Koan's are the infallible word of Buddha

[Anonymous No.11214521]

>>11214515here
>you realise enlightenment was always there to be had in every moment and that is your true self.
that is more like it

[Anonymous No.11214535]

>>11214317
>"If you claim to get it by making up some 'rational explanation' or 'message' and believe that this is the point you clearly don't get it"

Anyone who understands can recognize their own understanding of them by noting the feeling that this genuine comprehension produces and its emptiness of content.

[Anonymous No.11214552]

Anon told Jordan Peterson: "I have just entered the school. Please teach me."

Peterson asked: "Have you slayed the dragon within yourself?"

Anon replied: "I have slayed the dragon within myself."

Peterson said: "Then you had better clean your room bucko."

At that moment anon was enlightened."

[Anonymous No.11214560]

>>11214325
A young seeker read words on a screen.
The seeker knew the person who had written them was enlightened.
But the seeker was still confused.
The writer said that the seeker was already on the other side of the gateless gate.
The seeker did not believe him.
The writer then said stop being a little bitch, I compiled these words for you, you compiled these words for me, this is not a prank, it's THE prank.
The seeker thought this was a bit odd, and still felt confused, but he anticipated the end of a line pretty soon to say something like "At that moment, the seeker was enlightened." while he would still be confused, and wouldn't really feel enlightened.
The writer then said, ha, you think you're so fucking clever, don't you?
The seeker did feel a bit clever, and while he would have felt less clever if he had that thought a few moments ago, he realized that the writer had contrived the whole situation, and gained a slight sense of cleverness greater than the feeling of cleverness he had previously.
The seeker then realized he was the writer of all these words, and subsequently felt like a very silly, but maybe slightly more enlightened, faggot.

[Anonymous No.11214629]

>>11214325
A monk entered the room where Joshu was meditating. He asked Joshu: "Who is my true family?"

Joshu replied: "Sempai."

At that moment, the monk was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11214663]

>>11214325
A featherless biped walked up to Joshu.
Joshu ate the featherless biped.
Joshu said, "Tastes like chicken."

[Anonymous No.11214693]

>>11214114
>CLEAN YOUR BOWL.
top kek

[Anonymous No.11214694]

>>11214142
but which zen monasteries would satisfy the typical westerner that says original Zen wasn't buddhism? is there any of those or are all the zen monasteries """"contaminated"""" with pure land buddhism so that people who like the original texts will disregard the current monasteries?

[Anonymous No.11214699]

>>11214220
>They're literally designed to shortcut you into spiritual awakening.
this sounds like modern wishful thinking for people that don't actually want to put the work and still feel spiritual

[Anonymous No.11214702]

>>11214287
so the original shoe on head meme was a zen master meme, is there something the chink didn't invent first?

[Anonymous No.11214708]

>>11214325
The Sphinx asked Oedipus, "What is the meaning of life?"
Oedipus grinned, "The question is the answer."
And the Sphinx laughed.

[Anonymous No.11214710]

>>11214394
>Why don't people become enlightened any more? Or do they?
i think there are Arahant in Theravada traditions, not sure if there's any Buddha or what's the difference between the 2 exactly, but Arahants are supposed to be enlightened

[Anonymous No.11214715]

>>11214507
>word-play
so none of the translations actually work?

[Anonymous No.11214717]

>>11214699
Yes, which is why they're given to advanced practitioners and are meant to be meditated on for months or even years at a time. Besides, in Zen awakening doesn't just happen once and that's it. It's an ongoing process towards full enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.11214719]

>>11214518
buddha wasn't a zen guy, the guy who invented zen was bodhidharma, some blonde, blue eyed guy who casually wandered to India

[Anonymous No.11214730]

>>11214715
>so none of the translations actually work?

Not that kind of word play. Here it's simply the use of word to convey a specific frame of mind through the story. The exact words used aren't going to matter so much, it's not about 'trickery' of that kind.

[Anonymous No.11214771]

>>11214394
They do. I've heard that people who've met the Dalai Lama consider him enlightened. Same with Thich Nhat Hahn. Go to Tibet or Thailand and I'm sure you'll find plenty others.

They usually have better things to do than just randomly talk to a civilization that has no care or understanding of enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.11214777]

>>11214004
Oh, I get it. It's like the finger pointing at the moon. Others are so fixated on the finger that they ignore the moon entirely. The boy thought he would be enlightened using his finger and so Gutei lopped it off. The boy was enlightened because he became of his attachments.

[Anonymous No.11214780]

>>11214777
became free*

[Anonymous No.11214795]

>>11214719
buddha still appears in a lot of koan

[Anonymous No.11214814]

4chan Buddhism

[Anonymous No.11214835]

>>11214468
>120 days of zen (2019)

[Anonymous No.11214842]

>>11213994
meditate

[Anonymous No.11215596]

>>11214795
is it usually not to mock him? or are there koans were he is still respected?

[Anonymous No.11215700]

>>11215596
Isn't the point to reach Buddhahood? I'm not sure how much Buddhism has to do with Siddhartha or if Buddhahood can be reached through other paths or whatever

[Anonymous No.11215702]

The entirety of Eastern philosophy - Lao Tzu, Confucius, Buddha etc. - and its modern/Western interpretations (Alan Watts, Robert Pirsig, Eckhart Tolle, Benjamin Hoff, even Hermann Hesse)... it's all the same shit. Zen, Tao, Wu Wei, whatever you wanna call it, it's basically one principle and there's very little substance to it. Apparently sitting there "living in the present" and doing nothing is considered enlightenment. They dress it up with shit about how nature "takes care of everything" but it's just coping with the fact that their lives are unfulfilled.

At least the rest of philosophy is attempting to answer difficult questions. Instead these Zen fucks would rather be braindead and claim "DUDE WEED you can't know!" and lie on the grass being all spiritual and thinking they're better than everyone who's actually trying to do something meaningful.

Ask yourself, when you're 40, would you rather look back at your accomplishments, adventures, trials and tribulations, love and loss, and shit you can actually have a conversation about, or just empty memories?

How fucking dull.

[Anonymous No.11215715]

>>11214044
Have you read the Analects? Like a tenth of the stories are just Confucius trying to fuck with his students.

[Anonymous No.11215726]

>>11215702
An artist respects the silence that serves as the foundation for creativity

[Anonymous No.11215754]

>>11213994
Maybe learn the basics of Buddhism first.

[Anonymous No.11215761]

>>11215754
If I can't learn it through these stories then why bother

[Anonymous No.11215780]

>>11215700
not sure, there are plenty of zen writings saying there's no such thing as enlightenment, or you are already enlightened, you just have to realize it, or whatever meme that just serves to keep doing nothing and feel good about yourself that westerns like to mine from the texts

[Anonymous No.11215791]

>>11215715
>Analects

[Anonymous No.11215825]

>>11215702
Emory memories for sure

[Anonymous No.11215828]

>>11214325
A mother and her son visited the temple of Chinese Zen Master Jonshu, but he was not there and instead they were welcomed by his disciple Panshu. The mother said: "I did not want this child."
Panshu answered: "Hǎo de." [Hǎo de is Chinese, meaning "Okay" or "Fine."]
In that instant the son was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11215845]

>>11214000
ITT: plebs who think they're supposed to get koans immediately and without significant reflection or any prior practice in zen. Here, lemme enlighten you grasshopper:

Joshu was a great zen master who, unlike other zen masters, would not beat or shout at his disciples. He said everything in a low and soft whisper, which became known as his "lips and mouth zen." This koan is an example of that.

Zen masters like instructing in concrete language rather than terms like "enlightenment" and so when Joshu asks his question, he's actually asking if the monk has tasted of kensho, which is essentially "initial insight" on the zen path.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensh%C5%8D

The monk, understanding this, says he has eaten and thus is enlightened. The monk is puffed-up and proud, haughty of his accomplishment, thinking himself deep. Joshu needs to tame this and so he tells the monk to wash his bowl. To wash away his pretensions, to become humble, for if you have tasted of kensho, you must wash away its glamor to remain on the path.

Through zen, you're supposed to become not some eccentric and esoteric freak talking in code, but a real, ordinary, authentic person.

[Anonymous No.11215864]

>>11214122
based

[Anonymous No.11215887]

>>11214394
They do. The Buddha said it would take 7 years, others say it can take months or years, it just depends on whether or not you actually combine Buddhism/meditation and its insights into your life, instead of segregating and losing much of it. You have to make it a lifestyle, essentially, not just a space of time that you read or meditate in (that doesn't mean you have to be a monk/dedicate your life to it though -- you just can't treat it as separate it must be part of you). It's not a mystical or hidden thing, although much of Buddhism sets it up as such. It's pretty much just building up meditation skill and changing your brain to the extent that reinforcing and retaining what you have gained throughout the process is completely effortless and can be done nearly automatically. It's a more complete, developed, and permanent state to the unusual glimpse you might see or feel when meditating. Enlightenment includes much of what you have when not yet enlightened, just in a more complete and fixed manner. You can lose it if you stop practicing and work towards breaking it up. Though like devout faithfulness, it will be quite hard to undo the intellectual component.

However, 'Enlightenment' may also be an official status thing. To be recognised as such for social/political/cultural reasons, or simply because you have great status to begin with. Buddhism is, amongst other things, a set of cultural institutions that will absolutely feature this sort of thing. Buddhism is not just a philosophy that aims towards Enlightenment in a utilitarian manner, it is much more than a philosophy and its philosophy is not scientific or necessarily systematic. Aside from the goal, you must also consider its 'philosophy' to be 'philosophies'.

[Anonymous No.11215893]

>>11215702
One of the people I used to do Zen with was a happily married carpenter, the other was a professor and pianist. Stop being terrified of silence. Put the phone down. Read a book and don't embarrass yourself posting these reddit opinions ever again.

[Anonymous No.11215896]

A young monk came to Jonshu to gain enlightenment.
He said: "Jonshu, I have very little time left on this world and I need to become enlightened. Teach me how."
Jonshu replied: "It takes a long time to reach a state of enlightenment. The state of enlightenment is a process that never ends. I can teach you nothing."
The monk begged and pleaded: "Please Great Jonshu, I do not want to die and fade into nothingness."
Jonshu answered: "Okay, maybe this will work."
"What makes the wheel work, is the space between the spokes."
"This was a lie."
"A gate is useful because it envelops that which is not."
"Why do we suffer of things we cannot grasp?"
"An empty bowl in times to come is filled with nothing at all."
"Think a thought."
"Good."
"Multiply it by three."
"Wait for twenty years and then die."

In this instant no one was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11215903]

>>11215893
LMAO I bet reddit fucking loves Zen so I don't know where you get that idea from. And where the fuck do you think I learned about it in the first place? Of course I've read it. I've also read Western philosophy and it's superior in every way. Worthless response. Go sit in the corner in silence.

[Anonymous No.11215925]

>>11215903
I've read both. You read Zen but didn't comprehend shit. How's it feel spending all that time and still coming away with an opinion indistinguishable from a redditor whose never cracked open a book.

[Anonymous No.11215927]

>>11214325
A monk asked Joshu: "Please teach me."

Joshu replied: "Is your refrigerator running?"

The monk answered: "Yes, my refrigerator is running."

Joshu said: "Then you had better go catch it!"

At that moment the monk was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11215934]

>>11215761
That's like saying:
>if I can't read advanced contemporary physics on the cusp of development, why bother learning mathematics/physics.

The basics are in there, to some extent, as they ultimately derive from them. But you're not going to see them, let alone understand and learn. You don't absolutely need to learn anything when it comes to Buddhism, it's ultimately all supplementary and usually dependent on an individual tradition and context. But it will obviously be of great help to familiarise yourself with the core ideas and history. Otherwise you're just reading near-meaningless cryptic text for no reason.

[Anonymous No.11215941]

>>11215934
So they can't explain their own religion clearly? Why even bother, sounds like a sham

[Anonymous No.11215950]

>>11215941
Because it's not about explanations. Western thought is founded on being. Eastern thought is founded on nothingness.

[Anonymous No.11215952]

>>11213994
/lit/ is full of plebs. This thread is embarrassing. I'm ashamed of myself for spending so much time here.

[Anonymous No.11215956]

>>11215941
They're stories intended to help you short-circuited and cut the spirals of discursion. That basically the only answer to the riddle of reality is no-answer, a non-answer, "suchness", "that-ness".

Jesus Christ ive never seen so much close-minded ignorant pseudery in one thread. Apply yourself.

[Anonymous No.11215957]

>>11215950
Then to nothingness it shall remain. Hegel was right about the Eastern philosophies.

[Anonymous No.11215958]

this comes from plebbitor Arahant0

>I just had my interview with my teacher and I passed my kong-an. Does the sky have Buddha Nature? The sky is blue! The purpose of the kong-an is to get me to see what's really true. Does a dog have Buddha Nature? Woof woof! He asked me a few more that I was able to pass, easy ones. I was overthinking it, of course. The interview was frustrating at first, but once I got it, it was a lot of fun.

>I've got a hard one now, but he thinks I'll pass it quickly enough. It's Joshu's kong-an about the two monks in a cave.

>Edit: here it is: Jõshû went to a hermit's cottage and asked, "Is the master in? Is the master in?" The hermit raised his fist. Jõshû said, "The water is too shallow to anchor here," and he went away. Coming to another hermit's cottage, he asked again, "Is the master in? Is the master in?" This hermit, too, raised his fist. Jõshû said, "Free to give, free to take, free to kill, free to save," and he made a deep bow

[Anonymous No.11215963]

>>11215957
Except Hegel's entire system is this Nothingness unfolded in/through the dialectic. His thought is the spiraling-in of the enso circle.

Learn to synthesize perspectives you goober

[Anonymous No.11215965]

>>11215952
Something about zen always attracts the worst of pseuds. This guy seems to get it though: >>11215845

[Anonymous No.11215978]

>>11215963
I'm going by what he said in his lectures. But it turns out he was talking about other eastern stuff, I don't have his exact words on Buddhism/

[Anonymous No.11216002]

>>11215978
He derides the East for their identification with an indeterminate abstract "Nothing" but doesn't realize his entire system is just this Nothing's coming into self-knowledge of itself as Nothing. Zen stands both at the beginning and end of Hegel's system, because that system is a circle.

[Anonymous No.11216035]

>>11216002
Why are you calling Spirit Nothing though. And I think Zen is a bit to individualistic rather than the collective as a whole working toward self-knowledge. Hegel's spirit seems to worth toward a rational society while Zen's self-knowledge seems to be more bare bones. There are similarities I guess

[Anonymous No.11216045]

>>11215927
i get this one!

[Anonymous No.11216061]

>>11215952
nice how you get to be smug without saying anything and thus staying protected in your little shell like the little cuck you are

[Anonymous No.11216070]

>>11215965
i'm sure you are qualified to decide who "gets it" and who doesn't from your basement

[Anonymous No.11216074]

>>11216035
Because it is Nothing, it is self-mediated Nothing.

>For Buddhism and Hegel—there IS only Nothing, and all processes take place “from Nothing through Nothing to Nothing,” as Hegel put it.

[Anonymous No.11216105]

>>11215952
>>11215965
Try going on Reddit, it's a lot worse.
It's best to call it Western Zennism rather than Zen/Chan Buddhism. As far as I've seen, most who engage with it are looking for a sort of smug-wisdom aesthetic. So they can feel good and bask in self-styled superiority. It's always about 'knowing' beyond what another person knows or feels. With ultimately nothing being said at all, it's a thin pretense with nothing besides. Basically a messy imitation of Zen as a hollow aesthetic.

[Anonymous No.11216142]

>zen expert
>gets mad about misconceptions of zen

[Anonymous No.11216244]

>>11216142
>>zen expert
what is this? the new office planning tool?

[Anonymous No.11216262]

>>11216142
Everyone knows white people are physically incapable of understanding Zen

[Anonymous No.11216282]

>>11215925
Can you say anything without mentioning reddit? For someone that hates it so much you sure as hell can't stop talking about it.

[Anonymous No.11216293]

>>11216262
>implying white people even exist at this point and aren't just known as 'Americans'

[Anonymous No.11217082]

Buddha sucks

[Anonymous No.11217138]

>>11213994
Don't you mean...
>Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent

[Anonymous No.11217148]

Ill make this really simple for my dear anons:

Zen has nothing to do with Englightenment, just Seeing

Zen has no precepts so there is nothing to do with Buddhism, it has literally no relationship with buddhism besides being antinomian and annihilating the Buddha

Zen isn't materialist but its not Idealist, there is no God or Geist in Zen but matter is a no-thing as much as anything else is

Zen is outside words and phrases, if you were looking for logical explanations for the Koans you're basically looking for places to nail down air

Zen isn't a joke but they're not being sincere in the sense you'd understand any normal "philosopher" to be. People who think its just jokes are basically lost in the Void and can't get out of nihilistic concepts

Just seeing can't be willed and not-willing doesn't do it either. Weird

Zen is basically limited to a group of people in China during the Tang and Song dynasty periods. Japenese Zen has absolutely nothing at all to do with Zen, that's why meditation is so important, and why they used to give people the answers to Koans. Koans have no "answers" and if you study it long enough you understand why they exist

Turning words are the basis of Koans but the Japs overemphasize this too because they decontextualize each occurrence

If you don't read the fucking commentary and the pointer before the Case then you won't get what's happening its a translation of ancient Chinese

Zen isn't anything at all to do with feeling good nor is it new age as they don't reify a collective soul or some kind of utopian conception of reality

Zen is basically spotless and doesn't rely on anything

Zen masters were eloquent individuals who were usually sons of ministers of the state and Abbots, they knew buddhist scriptures because its a part of their culture and because Lanka school masters invented Zen

the original Zen masters were Chan Buddhists of the Lanka school of Mahayana who broke off from Indian philosophy, they were all Gandharan Aryans from North India, none of them were dark skinned and they were hardly "oriental", the founder of the school had red hair, pale skin and blue eyes

Zen has nothing to do with detachment, that's Daoism and Buddhism, abiding in non-abiding is still abiding, just like shitposting ironically is still shitposting

Zen isn't 4chan because they aren't trying to make people laugh at all, and there's nothing to do with some type of counter-cultural current, they largely ignored the mainstream chinese culture

Being Ordinary has nothing to do with being "a regular guy" it has to do with returning to an immanent and essentially automatic existence, like what Nietzsche discusses in regards to the master breed and their cognitive functioning

Zen is basically incompatible with religion and with most kinds of ideological thought

Zen is basically unteachable, that's why they don't transmit anything, its called the Gateless Gate because of the Mind Seal, Mind to Mind transmission

[Anonymous No.11217211]

>>11217148
Basically this means nobody knows what Zen means because whoever originally invented the concept thought it was unteachable and never taught it to anyone. Whatever ideas they had, if any, have therefore been lost to time and what remains is the word "Zen" and various people's conflicting interpretations of it.

[Anonymous No.11217317]

>>11217211
No, the whole point is that Zen, properly understood as non-discursivity, is exactly what would preclude a "wilderness of views"

[Anonymous No.11217334]

>>11213994
>Is it basically all just "dude, what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence".
>What am I missing?
There's a difference between Wittgenstein saying you can only deal with what language covers and everything else is irrelevant to philosophy and a Zen teacher telling you to contemplate a koan for the purpose of breaking your mind out of dualistic thought prison.
Wittgenstein's goal was solving philosophy and getting everyone to stop groping around at bullshit.
Zen teachers' goal is to provoke a hard reset of your screwed up mind.

[Anonymous No.11217378]

>>11217138
Yeah thats it

>>11217334
This particular one just sounds like what Wittgenstein said
>>11214004

[Anonymous No.11217381]

>>11213994
>The fuck is this shit?
antropotechnics

[Anonymous No.11217426]

>>11215702
>Ask yourself, when you're 40, would you rather look back at your accomplishments, adventures, trials and tribulations, love and loss, and shit you can actually have a conversation about, or just empty memories?
I won’t be looking back at all, that’s the point

[Anonymous No.11218896]

>>11217317
Read: quite shit

[Anonymous No.11219056]

>>11215702
>my life is so shit that I need to care about memories

the state of women

[Anonymous No.11219086]

>>11216282
this board is filled with self-hating redditors

[Anonymous No.11219115]

>>11214325
A Grandmaster, on the brink of death, only eats one grain of rice a day, and buries another grain. He has done this for some time.

Wanderer asks, "why do you eat so little when life is so short? Why bury rice when life is so short?"

Grandmaster replies, "each day, I save for later, even if later never comes."

And the wanderer was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11219121]

>>11214114
pure untarnished gold

[Anonymous No.11219132]

>>11213994
>What am I missing?
meditation practice

[Anonymous No.11219459]

>>11215702
>Apparently sitting there "living in the present" and doing nothing is considered enlightenment.
That's the CNN version. Educate yourself.

[Anonymous No.11219549]

>>11219459
I've read all those authors I've mentioned, and secondary texts. Yes, they contain some valuable lessons, and the West could really use some of those practices.

Now I would tell you to go and read Nietzsche but nobody on this board has actually read any of his stuff and will just claim I'm an edgy nihilist or something.

[Anonymous No.11219562]

>>11217148
>Zen has no precepts so there is nothing to do with Buddhism
>the original Zen masters were Chan Buddhists
is this a koan too?

[Anonymous No.11219566]

>>11217317
that's quite convenient that your own pet interpretation, which can't be explained, turns out to be the same as the one some dead chinks who you never met had

[Anonymous No.11219610]

>>11219549
I’ve read Nietzsche. He unironically meshes pretty well with Eastern philosophy.

[Anonymous No.11219637]

>>11214325
A young man tells an intellectual: "I have never had a father, but the whole world looks up to you as one. Please spare me some advice."

The intellectual said: "Support me on Patreon."

At that moment, the young man was enlightened.

[Anonymous No.11219665]

>>11219637
clean your bowl bucko

[Anonymous No.11219677]

>>11219637
save western civilization for $5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2HBuUmRbfQ

[Anonymous No.11219864]

>>11219610
>>11219549
This.
Just like the Stoics. They go along well up to a certain point.

[Anonymous No.11219923]

hi every1 im enlightened!!!!!!! holds up staff my name is joshu but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF w1sd0m!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.11219924]

>>11219610
Nietzsche never just dismisses something for no reason, if he sees something that they do right he will take what good qualities he sees

[Anonymous No.11221825]

>>11214287
i don't get it.

[Anonymous No.11221879]

>>11221825
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/glg/glg14.htm

[Anonymous No.11221969]

>>11221825
First let me tell you that the kitten which Father Nansen killed was a rascally creature! She was beautiful, you know, incomparably beautiful. Her eyes were golden, her fur was glossy. Every pleasure and beauty in this world was flexed taut like a spring within that little soft body of hers. Most of the commentators have forgotten to mention the fact that the kitten was a bundle of beauty. Except for me, that is. The kitten jumped out of a clump of grass all of a sudden. Her gentle, cunning eyes were hining and she was caught by one of the priests-just as if she had done it all on purpose. And it was this that resulted in the quarrel between the two halls of the temple. Because, although beauty may give itself to everyone, it does not actually belong to anybody. Let me see.
How shall I put it? Beauty-yes, beauty is like a decayed tooth. It rubs against one's tongue, it hangs there, hurting one, insisting on its own existence, finally it gets so that one cannot stand the pain and one goes to the dentist to have the tooth extracted, Then, as one looks at the small, dirty, brown, blood-stained tooth lying in one's hand, one's thoughts are likely to be as follows: ‘Is this it? Is this all it was? That thing which caused me so much pain, which made me constantly fret about its existence, which was stubbornly rooted within me, is now merely a dead object. But is this thing really the,same as that thing? If this originally belonged to my outer existence, why-through what sort of providence-did it become attached to my inner existence and succeed in causing me so much pain? What was the basis of this creature's existence? Was the basis within me? Or was it within this creature itself? Yet this creature which has been pulled out of my mouth and which now lies in my hand is something utterly different. Surely it cannot be that?
You see, that's what beauty is like. To have killed the kitten, therefore, seemed just like having extracted a painful decayed tooth, like having gouged out beauty. Yet it was uncertain whether or not this had really been a final solution. The root of the beauty had not been severed and, even though the kitten was dead, the kitten's beauty might very well still be alive. And so, you sec, it was in order to satirize the glibness of this solution that Joshu put those shoes on his head. He knew, so to speak, that there was no possible solution other than enduring the pain of the decayed tooth."

[Anonymous No.11221984]

>>11213994
Find peace in the fact that you're not dumb enough to fall for that crap

[Anonymous No.11222027]

>>11214000
"But master, how can I wash the bowl if I do not exist?"

Buddhism btfo

[Anonymous No.11222051]

>>11222027
*hits you with stick*

"Do you exist now?"